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Now Schumacher's been caught

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13

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    #62
    penexpers
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,038 ✭✭✭penexpers


    Kohl has been caught now

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/other_sports/cycling/7668224.stm


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    #63
    Diarmuid
    Registered Users Posts: 3,981 ✭✭✭Diarmuid


    penexpers wrote: »
    Kohl has been caught now

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/other_sports/cycling/7668224.stm
    Time to cash in my betting slip


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    #64
    Funkyzeit
    Registered Users Posts: 1,033 ✭✭✭Funkyzeit


    Diarmuid wrote: »
    Time to cash in my betting slip

    You wouldn't have got great odds on that Diarmuid !! ;)

    Wonder if there are any more postives in this batch.


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    #65
    titan18
    Registered Users Posts: 11,946 ✭✭✭✭titan18


    At this stage,I think they need to retest every sample from the Giro,Tour and Vuelta for CERA as its getting ridiculous.I really hope noone's stupid enough to take this now.


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    #66
    Chips Lovell
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,269 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    titan18 wrote: »
    At this stage,I think they need to retest every sample from the Giro,Tour and Vuelta for CERA as its getting ridiculous.I really hope noone's stupid enough to take this now.

    The Giro said they wouldn't be retesting. You'd almost think they're afraid of what they'd find. Was during the Giro actually that I first heard the rumours about CERA knocking around.


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    #67
    Diarmuid
    Registered Users Posts: 3,981 ✭✭✭Diarmuid


    Funkyzeit wrote: »
    You wouldn't have got great odds on that Diarmuid !! ;)
    :D Too true.
    The Giro said they wouldn't be retesting
    I guess it's not like anyone is even pretending that the Giro is clean.


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    #68
    TinyExplosions
    Registered Users Posts: 6,860 ✭✭✭TinyExplosions


    Diarmuid wrote: »
    I guess it's not like anyone is even pretending that the Giro is clean.

    Maybe that's why Lance is doing it next year! :pac:


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    #69
    Diarmuid
    Registered Users Posts: 3,981 ✭✭✭Diarmuid


    TinyExplosions wrote: »
    Maybe that's why Lance is doing it next year! :pac:

    Don't go there!


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    #70
    TinyExplosions
    Registered Users Posts: 6,860 ✭✭✭TinyExplosions


    Diarmuid wrote: »
    Don't go there!

    But he's a great sportsman, and an ambassador to the sport, and sure he won like 7 in a row, all clean and above suspicion and....

    touch paper lit, waiting for it to go boom!


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    #71
    niceonetom
    Registered Users Posts: 4,833 ✭✭✭niceonetom


    Diarmuid wrote: »
    I guess it's not like anyone is even pretending that the Giro is clean.
    TinyExplosions wrote: »
    Maybe that's why Lance is doing it next year! :pac:

    actually... does this strike anyone else as suspicious?


    eh... BOOM!


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    #72
    TinyExplosions
    Registered Users Posts: 6,860 ✭✭✭TinyExplosions


    niceonetom wrote: »
    actually... does this strike anyone else as suspicious?


    eh... BOOM!

    Hmmmm.... very suspect.... maybe Mr 'mankini for the W200' had words with Lance.... :)


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    #73
    Chips Lovell
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,269 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    TinyExplosions wrote: »
    Hmmmm.... very suspect.... maybe Mr 'mankini for the W200' had words with Lance.... :)

    Nope, Funkyzeit said he'd do it if Lance came back, not if he rode the Tour. I totally haven't forgotten about this by the way. Funkyzeit, you better hope its a warm day.


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    #74
    Funkyzeit
    Registered Users Posts: 1,033 ✭✭✭Funkyzeit


    I am already on the sunbeds in preperation.

    On a totally different subject can you completely remove a whole thread? ;)


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    #75
    Raam
    Registered Users Posts: 14,317 ✭✭✭✭Raam


    Funkyzeit wrote: »
    I am already on the sunbeds in preperation.

    On a totally different subject can you completely remove a whole thread? ;)

    Dude, you've gotta do it.


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    #76
    Funkyzeit
    Registered Users Posts: 1,033 ✭✭✭Funkyzeit


    Raam wrote: »
    Dude, you've gotta do it.

    If I can find a Mankini with a chamois I will....


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    #77
    Diarmuid
    Registered Users Posts: 3,981 ✭✭✭Diarmuid


    No more positives from the Tour. Kohl will be the last.


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    #78
    quietobserver
    Closed Accounts Posts: 546 ✭✭✭quietobserver


    Diarmuid wrote: »
    No more positives from the Tour. Kohl will be the last.

    no more positives in relation to EPO CERA, wonder what the others used:rolleyes:


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    #79
    amjon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 174 ✭✭amjon


    This new drug CERA was released onto the market in early 2008 so everyone assumes that thats when everyone started using it.Is there not a good chance that guys for the last 2/3 years were using CERA that went missing from clinical trials?Just a thought,would be good to see samples from the last few years top 20 riders in the tour,giro,veulta and volta.


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    #80
    Diarmuid
    Registered Users Posts: 3,981 ✭✭✭Diarmuid


    amjon wrote: »
    This new drug CERA was released onto the market in early 2008 so everyone assumes that thats when everyone started using it.Is there not a good chance that guys for the last 2/3 years were using CERA that went missing from clinical trials?Just a thought,would be good to see samples from the last few years top 20 riders in the tour,giro,veulta and volta.
    The Giro organisers don't even want to re-test 2008 samples not to mention last years! I guess you shouldn't overturn rocks if you are not prepared to deal with what's underneath.


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    #81
    Diarmuid
    Registered Users Posts: 3,981 ✭✭✭Diarmuid


    Kohl reckons half the peleton are on CERA. Not good news if you're hoping that pro cycling is over the worst of it. (if it's true)


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    #82
    Bruce11
    Closed Accounts Posts: 88 ✭✭Bruce11


    I say they are all on substances, just a case that some are not listed as banned yet, some are not even known about, some are acceptable and some are in testing.

    Remember back to the PDM team all withdrawing because off food poisoning, sounded like whatever vitamins they were on were new and in testing. They did try and say the masseurs and mechanics were sick but didn't look like it on TV.

    In fact the team doctor has since admitted it was Intralipid he used and it had been stored incorrectly.


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    #83
    Funkyzeit
    Registered Users Posts: 1,033 ✭✭✭Funkyzeit


    Bruce11 wrote: »
    I say they are all on substances, just a case that some are not listed as banned yet, some are not even known about, some are acceptable and some are in testing.

    Remember back to the PDM team all withdrawing because off food poisoning, sounded like whatever vitamins they were on were new and in testing. They did try and say the masseurs and mechanics were sick but didn't look like it on TV.

    In fact the team doctor has since admitted it was Intralipid he used and it had been stored incorrectly.

    I don't think they are - I still believe that a lot of the younger riders in the Peleton are clean and I also believe the likes of Sastre AND Evans (who unlike Kohl) have always been performing are clean.

    I think it's easy to see who is on the soup (half this forum "knew" Kohl, Schue and the Saunier lads were! )

    I genuinely believe that we have turned a corner following CERA...maybe I' just being naieve but I hope not...


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    #84
    Bruce11
    Closed Accounts Posts: 88 ✭✭Bruce11


    Funkyzeit wrote: »
    I don't think they are - I still believe that a lot of the younger riders in the Peleton are clean and I also believe the likes of Sastre AND Evans (who unlike Kohl) have always been performing are clean.

    I think it's easy to see who is on the soup (half this forum "knew" Kohl, Schue and the Saunier lads were! )

    I genuinely believe that we have turned a corner following CERA...maybe I' just being naieve but I hope not...


    Well I am cynical but we all thought after Festina and Virenque that drugs would leave the sport. Then the Landis affair, Ullrich and Contador listed more and more and more .....

    I hope too that the sport will become drug free, fingers, arms, toes and legs all crossed.


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    #85
    smithslist
    Registered Users Posts: 618 ✭✭✭smithslist


    Funkyzeit wrote: »
    I think it's easy to see who is on the soup (half this forum "knew" Kohl, Schue and the Saunier lads were! )

    its a good sign for the sport as the spectators (using the boards initiative) that we had a good idea who was on the funny stuff, this time 10yrs ago in the peleton, not many people could state who was on the funny stuff when watching the sport back then....i think that is a big step forward.
    Funkyzeit wrote: »
    I genuinely believe that we have turned a corner following CERA...maybe I' just being naieve but I hope not...

    +1


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    #86
    Chips Lovell
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,269 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    Have to say, I haven't been terribly impressed with Kohl's carry on since he's been nabbed. He's been moaning about his two year ban, saying he cooperated, but the authorities say he hasn't really. Won't name the doctor who gave it to him and won't name any other riders. Reminds me of Basso, the minimum amount of cooperation in order to gain acceptance back into the fold.

    Then again, from Kohl's point of view, maybe he wants to resume his career when his suspension is over. Look at Jorg Jaksche, the only Puerto rider who really came clean. The guy can't get a team to save his life.

    I don't think half the peloton is on CERA, they certainly aren't riding as if they are. I do think though that a good proportion of those using it and other blood boosters this year weren't caught. The fact that the UCI doesn't want to retest the Giro samples is a disgrace and certainly made me less convinced that they are finally willing to face up fully to the doping issue.
    Funkyzeit wrote: »
    I still believe that a lot of the younger riders in the Peleton are clean.

    I don't know, I think the experience of this year has knocked the notion on the head that its only the old hands still doing it. We had Ricco, Schleck and Gusev. All younger riders. And there's still a few more who escaped detection I feel. Definitely the most suspect performance in this year's Tour came from a very young rider.

    I think there's still a hard core of riders of all ages who haven't quit it. I think it depends more on the racing cultures they come from and the teams they are in than their age.


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    #87
    Diarmuid
    Registered Users Posts: 3,981 ✭✭✭Diarmuid


    el tonto wrote: »
    Have to say, I haven't been terribly impressed with Kohl's carry on since he's been nabbed. He's been moaning about his two year ban, saying he cooperated, but the authorities say he hasn't really. Won't name the doctor who gave it to him and won't name any other riders.
    .
    He won't name the doctor but he claimed that he named names
    The former pro has also testified before the World Anti-Doping Agency and the German federal police Bundeskrimnalamt, which is investigating the former T-Mobile Team for which Kohl rode from 2005-2006. "And I definitely named names there."

    In comparison to the other guys who were caught he's been an angel. Those guys have taken the lawsuit approach
    el tonto wrote: »
    I don't think half the peloton is on CERA, they certainly aren't riding as if they are.
    Well I'm not sure I agree with you. Why would Kohl say such a thing when it's clear he wants to get back to racing asap? Surely something like "half the peloton is on the stuff" is most definitely spitting in the soup?


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    #88
    Junior
    Registered Users Posts: 3,190 ✭✭✭Junior


    Bruce11 wrote: »
    I say they are all on substances, just a case that some are not listed as banned yet, some are not even known about, some are acceptable and some are in testing.

    Remember back to the PDM team all withdrawing because off food poisoning, sounded like whatever vitamins they were on were new and in testing. They did try and say the masseurs and mechanics were sick but didn't look like it on TV.

    In fact the team doctor has since admitted it was Intralipid he used and it had been stored incorrectly.

    Intralipid is just a substitute fat ?


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    #89
    zzzzzzzz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,431 ✭✭✭zzzzzzzz


    el tonto wrote: »
    Have to say, I haven't been terribly impressed with Kohl's carry on since he's been nabbed. He's been moaning about his two year ban, saying he cooperated, but the authorities say he hasn't really. Won't name the doctor who gave it to him and won't name any other riders. Reminds me of Basso, the minimum amount of cooperation in order to gain acceptance back into the fold.

    Then again, from Kohl's point of view, maybe he wants to resume his career when his suspension is over. Look at Jorg Jaksche, the only Puerto rider who really came clean. The guy can't get a team to save his life.

    I don't think half the peloton is on CERA, they certainly aren't riding as if they are. I do think though that a good proportion of those using it and other blood boosters this year weren't caught. The fact that the UCI doesn't want to retest the Giro samples is a disgrace and certainly made me less convinced that they are finally willing to face up fully to the doping issue.



    I don't know, I think the experience of this year has knocked the notion on the head that its only the old hands still doing it. We had Ricco, Schleck and Gusev. All younger riders. And there's still a few more who escaped detection I feel. Definitely the most suspect performance in this year's Tour came from a very young rider.

    I think there's still a hard core of riders of all ages who haven't quit it. I think it depends more on the racing cultures they come from and the teams they are in than their age.

    I'd agree with the second half of this post about riders of all ages being involved, It was a great line to take for news reports etc, but that's really blown up in their face with Ricco et al.

    I don't agree that just because riders aren't performing especially well (winning stages etc) doesn't mean they're not dopers.

    Obviously riders who seem to come out of nowhere and destroy the field in the grand tours are fairly suspect and you can spot them a mile away but I'd imagine that a decent amount of riders are on some sort of gear just so they don't go out the back, and finish the tour.

    There's a couple of riders in the peleton who, in my mind at least, seem to be clean. (Evans being one of them). But other than a select few I'd be fairly wary of anyone else and wouldn't really be surprised if there was a positive test from any of them. Very cynical, I know.

    Also, is it the UCI that don't want to retest the giro samples?? I thought it was the race organisers - which is fairly understandable. Obviously the majority of the field were off their tits.


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    #90
    Diarmuid
    Registered Users Posts: 3,981 ✭✭✭Diarmuid


    aidan.offbeat wrote: »
    I don't agree that just because riders aren't performing especially well (winning stages etc) doesn't mean they're not dopers.
    True. It could take a poor to average rider and bring him up to a very competitive standard. And if you do it when you are young you are more likely not to raise suspicion.


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    #91
    penexpers
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,038 ✭✭✭penexpers


    aidan.offbeat wrote: »
    Also, is it the UCI that don't want to retest the giro samples?? I thought it was the race organisers - which is fairly understandable. Obviously the majority of the field were off their tits.

    The Giro is organised under the UCI, so they would have the final say on drug testing (or lack thereof).


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