Elite XC "Heat" Discussion thread ** Will Contain Spoilers **

Killme00

Killme00 wrote: »

Do we need to use spoiler tags for discussion of the fights later?

Myself and Dragan discussed it and we feel that if people don't want results spoiled then they shouldn't be in discussion threads about that event. As such spoiler tags won't be needed for individual posts BUT we will require that no spoilers be included in thread titles and that threads containing spoilers should contain a spoiler warning. The charter has been updated now.

rovert

RNCFAN wrote: »

Looks like it's back on again

http://www.fightlinker.com/?p=3345

Ill take Meltzer over this for reasons above

RNCFAN

Fozzy wrote: »

Latest update from Dave Meltzer:



A real pity

Although if Frank somehow ended up fighting it would be even better. But I can't see Kimbo agreeing to fight Frank. I've changed my mind, I wouldn't be surprised if Kimbo accepts some fight

Meltzer and Frank are good friends too, he'll probably have the official word first if that fight's happening

I've read elsewhere though that Frank is not licensed to fight in Florida?
Frank would WRECK Kimbo whether he was training or puffing on his cigars coming up to this fight.

RNCFAN

rovert wrote: »

Ill take Meltzer over this for reasons above

You could be right too - Meltzer's update looks like it came after the fightlinker update.

Fozzy

RNCFAN wrote: »

I've read elsewhere though that Frank is not licensed to fight in Florida?
Frank would WRECK Kimbo whether he was training or puffing on his cigars coming up to this fight.

Yeah, Meltzer did report that originally, and he was probably talking to Frank himself, so it's an odd one. Perhaps the Florida commission could contact the California commission for details on Frank so they could license him quickly. I don't know what way that stuff works at all

rovert

MOAR:

Latest from Dave:

"Frank Shamrock, all dressed to announce, is awaiting word as it is very possible he will face Slice. Slice's people had not agreed to Seth Petruzelli as of a few minutes ago. Frank Shamrock is a different issue due to the weight difference and the fact Frank has not trained for the fight."

So it seems they're at least considering it.

If this were California or Nevada, no way would they license Frank to fight the night of and to fight someone in a different weight class. But Florida is a lot more lax than a lot of commissions as far as what they will sanction.

Hahaha holy sh1t i would LOVE to see Frank v Kimbo! Dang Frank on no training would still beat him! He's a tough guy to even consider it!


However if EXC don't find a replacement main event then they'll be up the proverbial creek minus a paddle.


Hang on, isn't Frank just recovering from a badly broken arm and supposed to be unlikely to fight until 2009 as of last reports?

rovert

Deleted User wrote: »

Hahaha holy sh1t i would LOVE to see Frank v Kimbo! Dang Frank on no training would still beat him! He's a tough guy to even consider it!


However if EXC don't find a replacement main event then they'll be up the proverbial creek minus a paddle.

This is totally make or break for EXC

Dragan

Talk about nice drama. I wonder how many people are tuning in trying to find out what is going on?

Numbers, numbers.

rovert

rovert wrote: »

This is totally make or break for EXC

Absolutely. 2 of the biggest names in the sport in terms of casual fan recognition, this could screw them.

Fozzy

Yet more from Meltzer:

Nothing has been said to the live crowd about the main event. This has changed six times in the last several hours, but as of this moment, the scheduled main event is not happening. Frank Shamrock is still at the announcers desk and at this moment is getting ready for a stand-up but as of 15 minutes ago was awaiting word if the commission would allow him to do the main event or if Slice would accept him as a new opponent. Petruzelli's match with Aaron LaRosa hasn't happened yet because Petruzelli is also a possible opponent for Slice.

Kimbo would look like a real pussy to the casual fan if he didn't accept Frank as an opponent. That fight would be so great. This is total pro wrestling

Oh the drama!! :pac:

Dragan

If Kimbo accepts either Seth or Frank i would be impressed. I think it would do a lot for his credibility as a fighter. His trainers and management have to know that EliteXC could be in serious trouble after this so it's either not fight, loss some credibility when you have talked a lot about how you just love to fight or fight, gain some respect and make the chances of getting into the big time that bit higher.

rovert

Deleted User wrote: »

Absolutely. 2 of the biggest names in the sport in terms of casual fan recognition, this could screw them.

I talking more on the business end, this maybe the last EXC show ever if a flop.

rovert

rovert wrote: »

I talking more on the business end, this maybe the last EXC show ever if a flop.

I know. That's what i meant as well. If they don't have a main event then I don't know if Arlovski would be enough to hold the interest of a casual fan. And that could really hurt them.

rovert

This is getting exhausting:

Meltzer:

Nothing has been said to the live crowd about the main event. This has changed six times in the last several hours, but as of this moment, the scheduled main event is not happening. Frank Shamrock is still at the announcers desk and at this moment is getting ready for a stand-up but as of 15 minutes ago was awaiting word if the commission would allow him to do the main event or if Slice would accept him as a new opponent. Petruzelli's match with Aaron LaRosa hasn't happened yet because Petruzelli is also a possible opponent for Slice.

In the arena right now they are showing the Kimbo Slice vs. Tank Abbott match.

Fozzy

Live reports are saying that they're showing videos of past fights in the arena rather than live fights. Petruzelli was due to be fighting now, so it looks like they're stalling it to see if Kimbo will fight him

MMAJunkie says that ringside production people have Kimbo vs Petruzelli graphics on their computers

If it was a choice of Petruzelli or Frank Shamrock for Kimbo, the smartest option would have to be to fight Frank

Fozzy

Fozzy wrote: »

If it was a choice of Petruzelli or Frank Shamrock for Kimbo, the smartest option would have to be to fight Frank

Id say it will be Seth. He's trained, licensed, in shape and in the correct weight division.....

RNCFAN

Fozzy wrote: »

Live reports are saying that they're showing videos of past fights in the arena rather than live fights. Petruzelli was due to be fighting now, so it looks like they're stalling it to see if Kimbo will fight him

MMAJunkie says that ringside production people have Kimbo vs Petruzelli graphics on their computers

If it was a choice of Petruzelli or Frank Shamrock for Kimbo, the smartest option would have to be to fight Frank

Do you think? Frank's head movement alone would cancel out Kimbo's striking.
Petruzelli does seem to have a penchant for fighting the larger dudes though.

Fozzy

Deleted User wrote: »

Id say it will be Seth. He's trained, licensed, in shape and in the correct weight division.....

And a no-name fighter who could easily beat Kimbo. Although he'd be a better choice than Aaron Rosa I think

Fozzy

Fozzy wrote: »

And a no-name fighter who could easily beat Kimbo. Although he'd be a better choice than Aaron Rosa I think

I personally think Kimbo would beat Seth on the feet. But Seth is TUF alumni making him more recognisable than, say, James Thompson, to the average viewer, which is enough to be worth a punt to keep Kimbo on the card. Kimbo fighting anyone is better than no main event.

Think about it, this is the safe option. Frank would murder Kimbo and as such destroy EXC's big investment. this is the safer option for them.

The Sparrow

I've been thinking about this and I now think that EXC should just bin the Kimbo fight. Sometimes promoters have to make hard decissions and this is one of those situations. For two reasons:

1. Whoever you find to fight probably has a better chance to beat Kimbo than Ken did. So in one stroke you could be completely destroying your number one draw. Why bother?

2. All of this frantic searching for an opponent just to make a match makes them look like clowns. Any casual fan sho is used to UFC will just view EXC as a bit of a joke. Especially if Frank were to end up fighting Kimbo.

So just take the hit and ditch the Kimbo fight. Sure it might hurt the ratings but what they should do is open the show with Kimbo and Ken and a doctor explaining what has happened. Kimbo is so fragile as a draw that it would be madness to do anything else. And surely CBS would understand the situation?

And even if they didn't, EXC is still so much more viable with an unbeaten Kimbo than with a Kimbo that has just been beaten by Frank Shamrock or some heavyweight dude that most people have never heard of.

Fozzy

Deleted User wrote: »

I personally think Kimbo would beat Seth on the feet. But Seth is TUF alumni making him more recognisable than, say, James Thompson, to the average viewer, which is enough to be worth a punt to keep Kimbo on the card. Kimbo fighting anyone is better than no main event.

Think about it, this is the safe option. Frank would murder Kimbo and as such destroy EXC's big investment. this is the safer option for them.

If Frank won they could do Frank vs Ken. That'd be huge

I read a report saying that a Kimbo vs Petruzelli graphic was shown in the arena, so it may be official. That fight's got so much less appeal to me than Ken or Frank!

Fozzy

Fozzy wrote: »

If Frank won they could do Frank vs Ken. That'd be huge

I read a report saying that a Kimbo vs Petruzelli graphic was shown in the arena, so it may be official. That fight's got so much less appeal to me than Ken or Frank!

That's also true but Frank vs Ken would be huge regardless so this is the safe mans bet. I'm not gonna stay up for this now. I'm gonna hit the hay and watch in the morning.

RNCFAN

Fozzy wrote: »

If Frank won they could do Frank vs Ken. That'd be huge

I read a report saying that a Kimbo vs Petruzelli graphic was shown in the arena, so it may be official. That fight's got so much less appeal to me than Ken or Frank!

For sure!

Fozzy

Apparently the Cyborg/Takahashi fight was great. Spoilered in case they show it during the show:

Cyborg just delivered a beating and Takahashi somehow hung on for the whole fight

RNCFAN

Final Update: Kimbo Slice VS. Seth Petruzelli tonight. 100%.

http://mmarated.com/blogs/blog/20081004/_updated__exclusive__shamrock_injured__tonight_s_main_event_in_jeopardy-832.html

Seth it is!!

Vince135792003

I can't wait to hear what Dana White says about this show.

bombidol

that was ****in shockin (the main event that is)

rovert

rovert wrote: »

Tito Ortiz and Hulk Hogan ARE the building tho.

woooo232 wrote: »

:rolleyes:

What do have to say now? Mauro even mentioned they should have gotten him.

Dragan

bombidol wrote: »

that was ****in shockin (the main event that is)

I would have expected Seth to take the fight. Just not so quickly.

Kent Brockman

Poor quality (but good enough) available on Dailymotion at the moment.

bombidol

www.mmascraps.com is yer only man

calex71

this was a bad bad bad loss for slice no matter how you look at it he lost to a guy on the undercard in 13 seconds and was cut by him to boot. as the commentry said rocky is in the buliding . I wasnt a value for money fight at all but who doesnt love those moments but in fairness both lads showed some class at the end

Haha i'm delighted! The right hand shocked me because Seth had one leg in the air so i wouldn't have expected a jab with one leg of the ground to drop anyone. Kimbo's chin has to be called into question on that evidence. He was classy indefeat to be fair to him.

Ninja v Radach was great. At one stage they booth dropped each other. Even though Ninja was landing Knees to the body I had a feeling it was only a matter of time before Radach was gonna KO him because he seemed to be waiting his time and Ninja as usual was far too open.

I thought the ref let Arlovski off. On the bottom in side control with your opponent working a kimura is not usually a spot where you see a stand up so in that regard he was lucky. However on the feet he looked awesome and he really peppered Nelson when he had his chance. Dunno why Nelson complained about the stoppage, he was done.

Carano's striking looked great, haven't seen the Cyborg fight but a fight between those 2 would be a real slugfest and ggreat for womens MMA.

Shields v Daley was a great striker v grappler matchup. Jako looked like he gassed a bit in the second and he really needs to train more standup but he did a great job in getting the win. Daley as always looked crisp on the feet but his fear on the ground cost him as I think he was shy of attempting escaapes out of respetc for Shields grappling skills.

Fozzy

That was somethin else. I'm not surprised that Petruzelli won, I'd been saying that it was a bad idea for Kimbo to take that fight. The funny thing is how they went on about how one of Kimbo's supposed strengths was fighting guys who he didn't know anything about

I loved the way Frank opened the show, still clearly building for that brother vs brother fight

The Ninja vs Radach fight was the best I thought. Some of the striking in the first round was very sloppy, yet it was still great

Carano did decent enough, she always ends up fighting a bit better than I thought she would

Nelson! He should have been more aggressive when he got Arlovski down because he could have easily finished it from there. He did win that first round (no idea what the commentators were doing saying that Arlovski easily won it) but my hopes for him faded in the second. That fight apparently cost Affliction over a million dollars

Daley was just outclassed by Shields. I didn't think that there'd be that much of a gap between them. Shields is the best fighter in the company yet I don't think that he's got over with the audience at all

And then Seth Petruzelli defeated EliteXC within seconds

Here's the video, don't know how long it'll stay up for:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGCH3nfbVEQ

Fozzy

Fozzy wrote: »

That fight apparently cost Affliction over a million dollars

Really? Have you any more info on that?

Fozzy wrote: »

Daley was just outclassed by Shields. I didn't think that there'd be that much of a gap between them. Shields is the best fighter in the company yet I don't think that he's got over with the audience at all

Shields is in a league of his own when it comes to Jiu Jitsu guys in EXC. My worry for him would be his stand up. I wasn't surprised he dominated Daley on the floor. He's awesome. But he certainly didn't outclass Daley on the feet. He really needs to get better at striking because being an elite level grappler with mediocre striking will only get him so far...

Fozzy

Deleted User wrote: »

Really? Have you any more info on that?

Arlovski earned $750,000 for beating Ben Rothwell at the Affliction show. The Wrestling Observer reported that he was due for a "substantial increase" in pay for the second fight on his contract, which would be a seven figure number if he won. Perhaps they convinced him to take a lower rate of pay in exchange for the exposure that he'd get on TV, but even with that the total cost could still be over a million dollars when you take Nelson's pay into account

RNCFAN

Well, Entertaining it certainly was - the pinnacle of MMA skills it certainly wasn't.

I was impressed with Daley - he put on a bettr show then I thought he would be able to. I see Shields wants to move up to MW - makes sense really as there is not much left to test him at WW in Elite

Arlovski, idk man, he showed again that under pressure he doesn't do his best work. I will be betting on Barnett if that still goes ahead now after seeing that.

And as for Kimbo losing. I have no problem with Kimbo himself, the guy is just making his living but yeah, to see Jared Shaw screaming at the ref was some proof of just how much they had built that organisation around him.

Fozzy

RNCFAN wrote: »

Arlovski, idk man, he showed again that under pressure he doesn't do his best work. I will be betting on Barnett if that still goes ahead now after seeing that.

The plan is Fedor vs Arlovski for the next Affliction show. Barnett said that he turned down a fight with Fedor

I'm really interested in seeing what effect Ken not being on the show affected the rating

t-ha

Based on what I saw last night, AA doesn't stand a chance against Fedor - a good exciting display of striking from him but his wrestling and submission defence aren't up to the Russian.

Also thought Shields came out looking bad from his fight, well, if he wants to be considered a top-tier WW anyway. His stand-up was totally exposed, and where his control on the ground was good he kept throwing himself right off to the side before he'd passed his leg over Daley's head in his arm-bar attempts.

Gina looked good - maybe needs to improve her wrestling and start pummeling harder for underhooks when she's clinched up against the cage. I also think she should keep that overhand right a bit tighter as she leaves herself very open to straight counters. Nice left hooks though. Fair play to a game Kobald also.

The Kimbo thing? Well these things can happen when you don't have an honest champion. One of the reasons I like to watch MMA over boxing is that, for the most part, if a guy goes out and wins a fight then he wins and if he doesn't he doesn't, and the promoters give guys fights that are always going to test them. It's honest, for the most part. I'm glad that the Kimbo train has been, if not derailed, at least dented a bit. It's an insult to guys like Robbie Lawlor and Jake Shields tbh.

I have to laugh at Ken Shamrock, he said he was going to expose Kimbo in every way possible and he did it! The man who 'has done so much for MMA' has just done a little more ha ha.

Fozzy

t-ha wrote: »

The Kimbo thing? Well these things can happen when you don't have an honest champion. One of the reasons I like to watch MMA over boxing is that, for the most part, if a guy goes out and wins a fight then he wins and if he doesn't he doesn't, and the promoters give guys fights that are always going to test them. It's honest, for the most part. I'm glad that the Kimbo train has been, if not derailed, at least dented a bit. It's an insult to guys like Robbie Lawlor and Jake Shields tbh.

I have to laugh at Ken Shamrock, he said he was going to expose Kimbo in every way possible and he did it! The man who 'has done so much for MMA' has just done a little more ha ha.

Really though, is Kimbo being exposed like this a good thing for MMA? It's too early to say too much, but this could very likely have been the death knell for EliteXC. Is one less somewhat-viable competitor for the UFC a good thing for MMA?

Fozzy

Just a few more interesting notes from Dave Meltzer about the show:

EliteXC had to pay Kimbo more money to get him to take the fight with Petruzelli

They were planning to do a verbal exchange between Ken and Frank during the show at one point, to build to a fight between them, but that got cancelled for some reason

After the show some EliteXC employees were asking him if there's any boxing jobs going. Doesn't sound like the company are too optimistic about the future

The Sparrow

rovert wrote: »

What do have to say now? Mauro even mentioned they should have gotten him.

Dude when your argument is that you are right cos Mauro says something that is not a good one... Mauro is one of the worst commentators I have ever heard and he usually comes across like a complete moron.

Anyway all I can say is thank god for UFC. If EXC were the No. 1 company in MMA then the sport would be doomed. Complete clowns tbh to make the Kimbo v Petruzelli fight. There was absolutely no upside to it. If Kimbo wins then it is just another victory aganst an unknown fighter who only had a couple of hours notice. And now that Petruzelli won Kimbo has been totally exposed. ANd for what? Absolutely nothing.

They should have just pulled Kimbo from the card and at least they would still have him as a draw. I think they will EXC will most likely die and whilst that is a real shame for their female fighters, the really don't deserve to be still in existence.

On occasion's like this I thank God that at least Dana and UFC know what they are doing.

rovert

woooo232 wrote: »

Dude when your argument is that you are right cos Mauro says something that is not a good one... Mauro is one of the worst commentators I have ever heard and he usually comes across like a complete moron.

It was a joke, Ill press on your foot the next time I make one.

Dragan

The thing about Shields is you are only ever going to be as bad as your competition, when that steps up then you have to. For me he has fought some very solid fighters but no one who was really on a career tear at the time.

Up till now his weaker area's were not really as massive issue. If he really wants to step up at WW it will mean an org change and some serious work on his stand up. Right now i would bet on a lot of the WW division in the UFC to give Shield fits.

I'm honestly feeling bad for Slice. He's getting it in the neck over the way he was promoted. Stepping up to fight Seth impressed me. If he could get more money for it then fair play to him, i work to get paid.

Feel bad for Daley. Really like him as a fighter but once again he needs to work on that area that cost him the win to make it to the higher level.

Arlovski didn't really show me all that much to convince me he can take Fedor. That said, i am expecting him to be able to give Fedor at least a bit of a run. I would hope that his knowledge of Sambo which Fedor's game plans repeatedly use to change the flow of fights can force the Russian to do something new and maybe change the game all over again.

I do know that with these two fighters, both incredibly respectful for the most part, will not let anything other than skillset sell the fight, so i am curious as to the numbers it can do.

I don't predict too much fight hyping from either.

Dragan

Dragan wrote: »

I do know that with these two fighters, both incredibly respectful for the most part, will not let anything other than skillset sell the fight, so i am curious as to the numbers it can do.

I don't predict too much fight hyping from either.

I'd agree to be honest. Though for us it's an absolute dream match. Arlovski on the feet looks better and better every single time I see him. To be fair to him he defended the kimura very well and looked relaxed but I think he needs to work more on his bottom game.

if Fedor chooses to stand with Andrei he could be in for a long night but i would doubt he will stand with him.

The Sparrow

Deleted User wrote: »

if Fedor chooses to stand with Andrei he could be in for a long night but i would doubt he will stand with him.

Arlovski is good on his feet... but not that good! I would think that if Fedor stands with him then Arlovski will be going to sleep pretty soon. Arlovski's chin is suspect so I don't predict much of a chance for him. He was even rocked last night.

RNCFAN

woooo232 wrote: »

Arlovski is good on his feet... but not that good! I would think that if Fedor stands with him then Arlovski will be going to sleep pretty soon. Arlovski's chin is suspect so I don't predict much of a chance for him. He was even rocked last night.

QFT.

DefenseSoapEire

I think fedor would have been able to finish the kimura.

I'm disappointed for Paul Daley, very entertaining fighter.

I still think EXC will continue to make a lot of money from Kimbo despite the loss . . . am I the only one who thought Shamrock would beat him anyway?