Swinging for a woman

javaboy

Cianos wrote: »

Well yes, everyone would be far better off if everybody reserved violence purely for self defence. In the real world this obviously isn't the case, and fights are commonplace.

+1.

So I wouldn't expect a guy to have much restraint when it comes to fighting another guy because they are on a much more level playing field. But when it's a woman involved, the restraint to hold yourself back should be there if she is no longer a physical threat. Beating up a woman is the act of a thug.

I don't really see why though unless you also apply the same rules to fighting anyone. It's not a case of beating up a woman. We're talking about the situation where a woman starts swinging digs without real provocation. Why is it that a man is only allowed to go as far as restraining her and no further?

What is so special about women? I know plenty of women who would be more capable of fighting than some men I know. So why the distinction on the basis of gender?

ven0m

For a woman to even attempt to hit me, she would wanna be out of her mind, on drugs or a sado-masocist

But, if they're willing to take that chance ....... 'ding ding biiiaaatttccchhh, lets get reaaaaddddyyyyyy tttooooo rrruuuummmbbblllllllllllllllleeeeeeeee'


EDIT: Sorry - should have clarified, violence should never be the first response, especially for me cos I'm like a brick s**thouse & fight like an animal, & there's no way I'd ever be able to prove 'self defense' - I'd get told I retaliated with disproportional response as once happened cos I had three people hop on me in a niteclub & I beat the pills out of them. I got a caution for it & there was three of them who attacked me first, with a roomful of people as witnesses, & I'm the one who got a caution ...... go figure.

stovelid

If a woman commits a random, serious attack on a man, he should be able to retaliate. At least enough to subdue her. I agree with the poster that said there are women who commit assaults on the assumption that men won't hit back.

Like for like. A woman once dipped her mouth in my pint for no reason, so I poured it on her. If she punched me, why shouldn't I hit her back?

As for the argument that men are physically stronger: I'm a man and If I attacked someone stronger than myself, I'd expect to get battered.

Cianos

javaboy wrote: »

+1.



I don't really see why though unless you also apply the same rules to fighting anyone. It's not a case of beating up a woman. We're talking about the situation where a woman starts swinging digs without real provocation. Why is it that a man is only allowed to go as far as restraining her and no further?

What is so special about women? I know plenty of women who would be more capable of fighting than some men I know. So why the distinction on the basis of gender?

Because the vast majority of women are a lot weaker than the vast majority of men. Yeah there are exceptions of course, eg a friend of mine is the top Irish kickboxer for her weight division she'd kick the crap out of me. But in the vast majority of cases, their punch is weaker and they are going to feel a punch a lot more than a guy is. If you get a punch from a girl, it's not going to have a big arm of muscle behind it, and if you punch her, her neck is going to be a lot more frail than the average guys.

These are just the physical elements to it, I still think it just shouldn't be done. Call me an 'ol fashioned gent, whatever, I can't imagine myself wanting to beat up a woman.

BroomBurner

Regardless of whether you are a man or a woman, if you hit either a man or a woman, you should expect retaliation. If you can't take a punch, don't give a punch.

And for anyone saying that men shouldn't hit women as they are weaker, that just gives women carte blanche to be violent towards men without someone stopping them.

javaboy

Cianos wrote: »

Because the vast majority of women are a lot weaker than the vast majority of men. Yeah there are exceptions of course, eg a friend of mine is the top Irish kickboxer for her weight division she'd kick the crap out of me. But in the vast majority of cases, their punch is weaker and they are going to feel a punch a lot more than a guy is. If you get a punch from a girl, it's usually not going to have a big arm of muscle behind it, and if you punch her her neck is going to be a lot more frail than the average guys.

These are just the physical elements to it, I still think it just shouldn't be done. Call me an 'ol fashioned gent, whatever, I can't imagine myself wanting to beat up a woman.

Again nobody is talking about beating up a woman really. I'm talking about the situation where a woman attacks a man unprovoked. She punches him with her full force in the face or whatever. Why should he limit himself to restraining her? As far as I'm concerned, she waives her right to be treated as a lady, whe she starts throwing punches.

Now I'm not suggesting that men should retaliate with full force punches because that would be a disproportionate response. And I'm not even saying I'd hit back myself. I would probably restrain her in reality but I think that is more to do with societal conditioning and fear of the inevitable bad press than due to any actual respect for her.

As stovelid said "I'm a man and If I attacked someone stronger than myself, I'd expect to get battered". As far as I'm concerned, there's no good reason why that shouldn't apply to women too.

I know for a fact there are women who abuse the convention that you don't hit women.

And another thing. If a woman slaps you, why can't you slap back with the same force? It's not like you're using your incredible man muscle to crush her. You're just retaliating in kind. Yet we all know that any man who does that in a night club is likely to find himself outside on his ear.

shenanigans1982

Cianos wrote: »

Because the vast majority of women are a lot weaker than the vast majority of men. Yeah there are exceptions of course, eg a friend of mine is the top Irish kickboxer for her weight division she'd kick the crap out of me. But in the vast majority of cases, their punch is weaker and they are going to feel a punch a lot more than a guy is. If you get a punch from a girl, it's not going to have a big arm of muscle behind it, and if you punch her, her neck is going to be a lot more frail than the average guys.

These are just the physical elements to it, I still think it just shouldn't be done. Call me an 'ol fashioned gent, whatever, I can't imagine myself wanting to beat up a woman.

Nobody has mentioned wanting to hit them. But if they start swinging and attempting to claw your eyes out it's only fair that you retaliate and if she is a kickboxer and you get knocked out fair enough.

Also punching her in the neck?....everyone knows you go for the ear or under the chin.

Cianos

javaboy wrote: »

Again nobody is talking about beating up a woman really. I'm talking about the situation where a woman attacks a man unprovoked. She punches him with her full force in the face or whatever. Why should he limit himself to restraining her? As far as I'm concerned, she waives her right to be treated as a lady, whe she starts throwing punches.

Now I'm not suggesting that men should retaliate with full force punches because that would be a disproportionate response. And I'm not even saying I'd hit back myself. I would probably restrain her in reality but I think that is more to do with societal conditioning and fear of the inevitable bad press than due to any actual respect for her.

As stovelid said "I'm a man and If I attacked someone stronger than myself, I'd expect to get battered". As far as I'm concerned, there's no good reason why that shouldn't apply to women too.

I know for a fact there are women who abuse the convention that you don't hit women.

And another thing. If a woman slaps you, why can't you slap back with the same force? It's not like you're using your incredible man muscle to crush her. You're just retaliating in kind. Yet we all know that any man who does that in a night club is likely to find himself outside on his ear.

If you're stronger than her, why is there a need to retaliate? Just because the smaller of two men would expect to get bathered, doesn't mean it's ok for the other guy to do the battering.

A small guy may still be a very skilled fighter so retaliating when you have the chance is another way to defend yourself. But for Man -v- Woman it is very rare that the woman is not at a big and clear disadvantage to the guy.

Being the bigger/stronger/skilled person of the two gives you the advantage to control the outcome of the situation. You either simply defend yourself, and minimise the damage caused, or take it down a notch and retaliate for egoic reasons. And I can't see what egoic pleasure anyone would get in beating up a woman.

javaboy

Cianos wrote: »

If you're stronger than her, why is there a need to retaliate? Just because the smaller of two men would expect to get bathered, doesn't mean it's ok for the other guy to do the battering.

Well personally if in a fight, I will defend myself and go no further than that. I wouldn't deal out a battering (even if I was able to ). But I apply that rule regardless of gender. If I was the battering/retaliating type, I wouldn't have one rule for wimmin and another for men.

A small guy may still be a very skilled fighter so retaliating when you have the chance is another way to defend yourself. But for Man -v- Woman it is very rare that the woman is not at a big and clear disadvantage to the guy.

Being the bigger/stronger/skilled person of the two gives you the advantage to control the outcome of the situation. You either simply defend yourself, and minimise the damage caused, or take it down a notch and retaliate for egoic reasons. And I can't see what egoic pleasure anyone would get in beating up a woman.

As I said above, I would defend myself and minimise the damage if at all possible in a fight with either a man or a woman.

But that's me. I don't hold it against other people who do retaliate and go beyond self defense/restraining in a man vs man situation. I would say a lot of people would agree with me on that. Sometimes it's about ego but sometimes it's a case of someone getting dealt a lesson.

If a guy is constantly starting fights, eventually he'll get dealt a lesson and he'll deserve it. If a woman does the same, why should she only ever get her arms pinned by her side or whatever?

Cianos

javaboy wrote: »

Well personally if in a fight, I will defend myself and go no further than that. I wouldn't deal out a battering (even if I was able to ). But I apply that rule regardless of gender. If I was the battering/retaliating type, I wouldn't have one rule for wimmin and another for men.



As I said above, I would defend myself and minimise the damage if at all possible in a fight with either a man or a woman.

But that's me. I don't hold it against other people who do retaliate and go beyond self defense/restraining in a man vs man situation. I would say a lot of people would agree with me on that. Sometimes it's about ego but sometimes it's a case of someone getting dealt a lesson.

If a guy is constantly starting fights, eventually he'll get dealt a lesson and he'll deserve it. If a woman does the same, why should she only ever get her arms pinned by her side or whatever?

So you're sayin that if it was the case that the woman went around starting fights all the time, that you would like to see someone teaching her a lesson?

If she's starting fights left right and centre, eventually someone will teach her that lesson. I won't be teaching her that lesson, because I can't tell if this is the first or 50th fight she's been in. Even if I did know, I still wouldn't be retaliating because I can't see myself lashing in to someone who is much weaker than I am.

In any case, I don't believe that some bloke breaking her nose is the best solution, cuz she obviously needs help of some sort.

javaboy

Cianos wrote: »

So you're sayin that if it was the case that the woman went around starting fights all the time, that you would like to see someone teaching her a lesson?

Yep. She would deserve it imo.

If she's starting fights left right and centre, eventually someone will teach her that lesson. I won't be teaching her that lesson, because I can't tell if this is the first or 50th fight she's been in.

Well really she would deserve it for the first fight and for each and every subsequent fight. Odds are she would get away with it a few times before someone actually does anything about it.

Even if I did know, I still wouldn't be retaliating because I can't see myself lashing in to someone who is much weaker than I am.

As I said earlier, I can't really see myself doing it either but then I wouldn't go beyond self defense against a guy either so I don't really count in this regard.

In any case, I don't believe that some bloke breaking her nose is the best solution, cuz she obviously needs help of some sort.

Not everybody needs help. Some people are just scum imo.

ven0m

There should be no need for deadly force if a woman starts smacking a bloke. Also, there should never be a need to go for 'kill shots'.

If the bible has taught us anything (mostly nothing other than God likes him some vengence & likes to hog said vengence; "vengence is mine alone said the Lord"), it is that an eye-for-an-eye is allows.

Ergo, you get box in the jaw, she gets a box in the jaw. you get glassed, she gets glassed & so on & so forth .......

stovelid

Cianos wrote: »

In any case, I don't believe that some bloke breaking her nose is the best solution, cuz she obviously needs help of some sort.

Blokes looking for trouble: boys will be boys

Women looking for trouble: clear aberration, and needs psychiatric help to help regain nascent motherly instinct

Some women are toe-rags, just like men are.

Puddleduck

What a load of old rubbish, if women want equal rights and to be seen as an equal then you accept the conditions, even if they are ugly.

If I punched a guy Id fully expect to get one back in the mouth. I dont understand why a bloke can get the head smacked off him and then just have to walk away.

Cianos

javaboy wrote: »

Yep. She would deserve it imo.



Well really she would deserve it for the first fight and for each and every subsequent fight. Odds are she would get away with it a few times before someone actually does anything about it.



As I said earlier, I can't really see myself doing it either but then I wouldn't go beyond self defense against a guy either so I don't really count in this regard.

If you think she deserves it, and you'd like to see it happen to her, then why do you have a problem being the person 'teaching her' the lesson?

javaboy

Cianos wrote: »

If you think she deserves it, and you'd like to see it happen to her, then why do you have a problem being the person 'teaching her' the lesson?

As I have already said a few times, I am the type of person who would only do what I have to do to defuse a situation. Whether that is defending myself, restraining the other person or whatever. I wouldn't retaliate against man or woman.

That doesn't mean I can't believe that he/she deserves a smack, it just means I'm not the person to do it.

EamonnKeane

2qk4u wrote: »

I was in a night club many years ago and while walking to the bar I felt a blow to the back of my head,it felt like needles in my head and there was a crunching feeling too.A girl decided to smash a pint glass into my head because she thought I was someone else.I turned and punched her right in the mouth.I didnt know I had done it until she was unconsious on the floor with her lip split and missing 3 of her teeth,blood was running from her nose and dripping onto the floor.
The Gardai were called and when they viewed the cctv in the club they smiled at me and said she deserved it.I was then taken home by the Gardai and told me I should have finished her off.
It was instinct that made me lash out and I would have no problem doing it again, but to be honest it would allways be a last resort.

In the "Street Fighter 2" sense?

homerjay2005 wrote: »

thread title is seriously midleading here.

it is never right to hit a woman, end of story.

Isn't it odd the way when people say "end of" or "end of story", they are never ever correct?

Nehaxak

lol who put falcon punch in the tags ? :P

shenanigans1982

EamonnKeane wrote: »

In the "Street Fighter 2" sense?

*cough* Mortal Kombat *cough*

DarkJager

I don't believe that kicking the **** out of a woman is ever right by any means, but a single punch to neutralise whatever threat she poses is justified in certain circumstances.

I've done it before and I'm not proud of it but it was either that or a jaw full of broken glass. Outside a nightclub one night and was caught up in a case of "mistaken identity" (I know this because she was screaming something about me sleeping with her ma....who I'm sure is a lovely woman judging by her daughter :rolleyes:) ). I ignored it briefly before I heard someone shouting to watch out,looked back and she was swinging a broken bottle just inches from my face. My first instinct was obviously "**** this", so I slapped her an uppercut and knocked her out.

Of course her boyfriend only appeared when the Gardai showed up and was trying to make me out as some sort of Stella Artois fuelled woman batterer... CCTV cleared that up in no time and I got a lift home from the shades!

FruitLover

homerjay2005 wrote: »

it is never right to hit a woman, end of story.

It's never right for a woman to hit a man either, but that's not going to stop 'em.

ven0m wrote: »

Ergo, you get box in the jaw, she gets a box in the jaw.

Or a jaw in the box...

Honestly, i personally feel that if anyone (man, woman or 3-legged alien) feels like starting a fight with someone, then that person deserves the absolute worst outcome.

Eg: I would never WANT to hit a woman. But if i get a smack in the face off one, you best believe i'll make sure she hits the ground. Maybe, just maybe, if men would do this more often, you woldn't get the problem happening so often.

Its never too late to learn a lesson in manners and respect.

DarkJager

DarkJager wrote: »

I don't believe that kicking the **** out of a woman is ever right by any means

This implies that you think there are occasions when kicking the **** out of a man is right. If so what are these occasions and why are they not equally applicable to women?

Plug

Karl Hungus wrote: »

If a woman swung at me with a bottle, I'd go technoviking on her ass.

HALT!

javaboy

Deleted User wrote: »

This implies that you think there are occasions when kicking the **** out of a man is right. If so what are these occasions and why are they not equally applicable to women?

No I think you just inferred that. Considering the question of the thread is whether you would hit a woman, I think it's fair enough to post "I don't believe that kicking the **** out of a woman is ever right by any means" without somebody taking from that they believe it is sometimes ok to kick the **** out of a man.

I mean he never mentioned dogs or kids either but that doesn't mean he was implying he would be ok with hitting them.

DarkJager

DarkJager wrote: »

I don't believe that kicking the **** out of a woman is ever right by any means, but a single punch to neutralise whatever threat she poses is justified in certain circumstances.

I've done it before and I'm not proud of it but it was either that or a jaw full of broken glass. Outside a nightclub one night and was caught up in a case of "mistaken identity" (I know this because she was screaming something about me sleeping with her ma....who I'm sure is a lovely woman judging by her daughter :rolleyes:) ). I ignored it briefly before I heard someone shouting to watch out,looked back and she was swinging a broken bottle just inches from my face. My first instinct was obviously "**** this", so I slapped her an uppercut and knocked her out.

Of course her boyfriend only appeared when the Gardai showed up and was trying to make me out as some sort of Stella Artois fuelled woman batterer... CCTV cleared that up in no time and I got a lift home from the shades!

It's to a point. If a girl swung a bottle at me I'd knock her the f*ck out and wouldn't feel the least bit guilty. Obviously thats it though, it's never justified to give ANYONE (guy or girl) some "extra digs".

Reminds me of the "Indian Slap", at first I felt bad because I was 100% on the guys side, and felt angry at the guy who comes in for the girl, but then I read comments etc and pretty much everyone was in agreement on it. I think the whole "don't hit women" (which i wouldn't and haven't ever done) thing gets abused by some women who think that this means they can do whatever they want without recourse.

DarkJager

Deleted User wrote: »

This implies that you think there are occasions when kicking the **** out of a man is right. If so what are these occasions and why are they not equally applicable to women?

To be honest I'm not a big fan of long drawn out scraps. If I'm in trouble, I'll try to get out of it as fast as possible, whether that takes 1 punch or 50. Of course, some guys can take quite a beating and dish it too, so these times would be justifiable to hand out an ass kicking. That applies ONLY to men because obviously a woman isn't going to be standing or fighting any longer if you really start laying on the punches..

BroomBurner

DarkJager wrote: »

That applies ONLY to men because obviously a woman isn't going to be standing or fighting any longer if you really start laying on the punches..

Don't forget though that women are more sly in their fighting style and also do not have that weird man-sense of "don't touch the nads". No matter what size a guy is, kicking him the nuts will have him dropped.

nobodythere

I wouldn't hit back but only for social reasons. I think if someone is attacking (esp. with a weapon) I'm well within my rights to fight back




Also I would be afraid of losing

javaboy

javaboy wrote: »

No I think you just inferred that.

Of course I inferred that. I did so because it can be inferred and I was simply pointing out that the thread underlines a bias within people about the use of violence towards different sexes which, I believe, is pretty much the point of this thread.

People are giving simple personal value judgments about their ideas towards hitting a woman while I feel the thread could be used to discuss the dichotomy between equality in reality and equality in theory.