Waterford University discussion

Dunmoreroader

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119823392#Comment_119823392

Jesus wept, I just watched again. Apart from Halligan being utterly inarticulate and unable to make the case for Waterford coherently, that Trinners ex-Provost, Prof. Michael Marsh, is one condescending gobshite. He talks about a Uni for Waterford like a bit of dirt on his shoe. I thought his eyebrows were actually going to leave his head and fly away at the sheer insolence of the idea. He deserved a slap.

914

Agree, but he had a point on the name "University", this is where hHalligan slipped up.

Like, I would have happily remained as an IoT if the IoT act was adjusted that allows IoTs to borrow and receive the same level of funding as stand alone Universities here.

It's not the name "University" that we crave in Waterford, it is instead insuring what ever 3rd level institute that we have would have the same criteria of stand along Universities with autonomy, funding and finances.

Fact is, TUs do not have this autonomy, funding and finances and we are left with the name Waterford eradicated from the 3rd level sector and are now at the mercy of regional politics where everyone wants a piece of the pie.

Gardner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119823647#Comment_119823647

no better place than the Waterford section of boards.ie for that. some of the muck sprouted here is laughable at the best of times.

azimuth17

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119831615#Comment_119831615

Look in the mirror.

gobo99

Mods this can be moved to the conspiracy theory forum now...

Also can you take "Waterford" out of the thread title.

😉

BBM77

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119831913#Comment_119831913

You should have no problem setting out the full University level upgrades that proves the conspiracy theory then.

914

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119831913#Comment_119831913

Is it a conspiracy? Let's take recent developments.

Two independent reports stated WIT should be granted University status, ignored by government and pushed through with SETU which had massive political influence.

A cardiac care 24/7 flawed report which states Waterford should not have cardiac care 24/7 was stated by government "there is no way we could go against an independent report"

Waterford boundary extension stated Waterford should extend it's boundary into south Kilkenny for the benefit of the area, ignored by government.

4 reports above, 3 which favoured Waterford were ignored and brushed aside, one report didn't favour Waterford and the government stood their ground on it.

Now regionally, the south east is an unusual area as it has a fair number of large towns who all have their own ambitions, these towns can not pull from each other and naturally look towards Waterford to see what they can get.

SETU has been a prime example of that, the break up of the South Eastern Health board another great example, relocating the VEC to Wexford another fine example, and moving the Garda HQ to Kilkenny another example (thankfully public and political uproar prevented that).

The south east is extremely parochial and everyone is our for their own patch, and areas smaller than Waterford will naturally try to undermine Waterford in order to obtain services for their own parish, therefore I don't think it is a conspiracy but a fact if life.

The south east needed a stand alone Uni and a TU.

Waterford as a stand alone Uni with a sub campus in Kilkenny.

Carlow, dun laoghaire and Dundalk (as three of those would have been required to form a TU, as Carlow doesn't have the research capacity) as some East Coast TU.

Heck even the new SETU president said in a recent interview "I wouldn't like to see willy nilly campuses created across Waterford City as there is value in consolidation" how ironic when SETU is going to spread across possibly 5 counties, where is the consolidation there?

RoTelly

TBH the TU are pointless DKIT and IADT now have a huge opportunity to differentiate themselves from the TUs. Linking so many so far apart is just nonsense, there are no real economies of scale to be got from such mergers.

I mean there is no really reason for DKIT not to be part of SETU when you consider that LYIT, ITS and GMIT have all merged. Time for ETU IMO.

Pointless narcissism IMO.

914

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119833704#Comment_119833704

The whole TU was born out of the last recession, merging institutions as a cost cutting exercise but now government are trying to sell it as something more.

I can't see how DKIT or IDAT can set themselves apart as I don't see a massive difference in the philosophy of an IoT and TU, they are selling it the same as they were IoTs, regional development based around regional industry needs bla bla bla.

I reckon we'll see some cross border TU established with DKIT and IDAT, HEA won't want a three tier system

friendlyfun

New logo is so ugly imo.

friendlyfun

Taking Waterford out of the name is a disgrace.

imacman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119848812#Comment_119848812

It's not great but it's much better than any of the other TU's logos.The old WIT crest was awful so I'm not sorry to see that go

914

Any news on the crystal site? All seems very quiet the past few months, we were told an announcement was imminent.

I see Harris has been busy announcing funding for further education colleges, expansion in ETB Cork, MTU, a new €40 million etb campus in Kilkenny for 5k students. TUS to develop a college of further education in Thurles.

Money seems plentiful

Muttley79

https://twitter.com/damienwlr/status/1603516296930402325?t=hCIIbn1rVyciOhIz-151oA&s=19

Parish pump politics in full flow here.

Wicklow is next to get university status!!

GandhiwasfromBallyfermot

Isn't that just for a new college of further education campus, similar to WCFE on Parnell Street? Nothing to do with SETU I think? I wouldn't begrudge anyone a college of further education, there should be one in every county town.

A SETU campus is a different thing though and should be centralised in Waterford.

azimuth17

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120002339#Comment_120002339

Most people would accept that if long promsed investment appeared in Waterford. Where is it? What the hell is going on?

GandhiwasfromBallyfermot

Yep think it was mentioned earlier in the thread the President of SETU stated the minimum investment needed is new engineering building + €250m in capital investment for student accom and other facilities.

Engineering building is due to start next year which is great but where's the announcement on the other €250m of investment needed? I believe there's separate budgets for ETB/Further Education and Technological Universities so I don't think the €40m investment in KK above will take from the pot of funds available to SETU but we still need to see progress soon in Waterford & Carlow. And not just announcements from the pulpit by Harris, real progress is needed like site purchases, planning applications etc.

914

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120002339#Comment_120002339

Different, maybe but the interview on KCLR was very interesting, talks of KCETB forming a partnership with SETU. Talks of doing beyond level 6 courses.

Education system changing where you can do 2 years in ETB and then 2 years in TU.

I would imagine the eventual scope here is to integrate this KCETB campus within SETU.

WCFE is also slightly different, I can not name the last time it received any level of serious funding. Prefabs have been in place there since the 90s.

There were once talk of relocating WIT good shepherds to WIT main campus and WCFE relocating to Good Shepherds but like everything here no funding followed.

That may happen with SETU, get Crystal site, relocate good shepherds to crystal site with student accommodation, new eng building on main campus and that it is for Waterford

Waterford will be then about 12k students while Wexford will be aiming for 5k and this KCETB also hitting 5k students.

PS I'm not against KK getting this development, I'm more annoyed at the lack of development here over the years

azimuth17

Its quite amazing to have an almost out of body experience and watch yourself being toasted on a rotisserie for the benefit of others. Waterford city , which led the university campaign for nearly a century is being dissected, post roasting, as we look on, by regional political interests. Fine Gael and all who walk in that shadow are a despicable bunch. How long has the proposed engineering building been on the go? Will it ever be built, that is now the question? How long has the expanded footprint and purchase of the glass site been on the go? Will it ever be bought, that is the next question? How long has it been since anything has been delivered to WIT except a name change to SETU which increasingly looks like camouflage for other agendas? By their deeds shall ye know them! And by heck, we know them all too well.

BBM77

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120003489#Comment_120003489

"Fine Gael and all who walk in that shadow are a despicable bunch."

Couldn’t agree more. The level of barely veiled hostility they showed towards Waterford city, particularly in their early years in power this time around, was just shocking. It is beyond me why any Waterford person would vote FG.

Finnbar01

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120003940#Comment_120003940

Or labour for that matter.

Finnbar01

I wonder what courses Waterford will lose?

Rustyman101

We all knew this was going to happen, Waterford assets have traditionally been dissected by regional parish pump politics, IMHO they should never have engaged and left carlow to their own device's.

Only change I can see is the signage its the same with the hospital, fancy sign same lack of funding.

friendlyfun

The PR and Propaganda campaign to see this as a win is astounding, we even had the majority of our TDs (including an opposition TD) support it. Over 50 years of a leading independent educational institute come to an end. We don't even have guarantees the HQ will be in Waterford, despite it being the only city in the region. It makes me frustrated. We always seem to be content with being runners up, rather than winners.

914

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120009157#Comment_120009157

The PR is unreal, even the interview on KCLR the other day, the presenter was practically applauding the "large uptake in students from the SE attending this new university SETU", which was echoed by Harris saying something along the lines of how proud he is to see so many from the region now staying in the region for education.

This was no difference to 6 months ago when WIT and ITC would have had a large portion of people from the SE attending both institutes.

It is actually mind blowing to see our representatives cheerleading this, I can not fathom it.

We constantly hear, "region, region, region" and sound bites such as "Waterford is the driver of the region no doubt about it"

A strong case could have been to create the TU (not what we want) have named it, Waterford TU or TU Waterford with campuses in Carlow with the HQ in Waterford, a Waterford TU still delivering for the region.

While this wouldn't have been what we wanted, retaining the name Waterford and HQ undoubtedly would have ensured we were still drivers of our own ambitions but now as SETU, it will constantly be which politicians are flavour of the month ensuring any funding will be landed to their own parish.

Also politicians in neighbouring counties surely couldn't have complained as the government would still have delivered a "regional" TU but ensuring Waterford was the driver, I have no doubt there would have been uproar from neighbouring counties.

Unfortunately our dummies here are too weak, and fall for this regional none sense, and not realising that the "region" only exists when neighbouring counties can pull from Waterford.

imacman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120009157#Comment_120009157

The HQ will never happen, it will drift on and be kicked down the road.

914

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120015099#Comment_120015099

Yep I agree, this was the argument by our local representatives, the whole "the HQ has to be in Waterford", "we have been promised the HQ", "It's only right the HQ is in Waterford"

It will be interesting now to hear them backtrack and toe the line of SETU president about "why do we need a HQ", they will shift focus now and start saying "the HQ isn't important, it's the funding that is important" and then when that doesn't come, more waffle.

Rather than just admitting "we fucked up"

azimuth17

Who would care to make any predictions about SETU/WIT at this stage? The future is murky no matter how much we want to be seen to support "our" college and the academics and other staff who work there. The resources promised have not been delivered or have been strung out ad nauseam. FG and Mr Harris et al have run rings around us because we have no political influence. What words accurately describe what has happened to WIT in the past decade? Is "run down" too strong? Or would "strangled"be better? Perhaps"crippled" best fits the bill?

A great institution, which changed the educational dynamic of the whole south east for the better, was on the cusp of stand alone university status in 2006, was brought to its knees. For what? Grubby politics intent on disassembling what has been seen to work here, in favour of a deeply politicised, decentralised shambles which has been seen to fail all over the country? It has all the makings of a Greek tragedy which will play out in the next three months for better or worse. Maybe the New Year will bring better news.

Of all the politicians involved, the carry on of David Cullinane and Sinn Fein, in opposition mind you, has been the most depressing. How people can suggest that he and they are our only hope is risible. Change? Just another political party, no different from FF, FG or Greens. Focussed on the five seat constituencies of Wexford and Carlow/Kilkenny and their own seat numbers.

Bards

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120015979#Comment_120015979

Agreed wholeheartly - SF & David Cullinane will suffer for their stance on this - they are meant to be an "Opposition" party with differing views, but the way they rowed in behind the government parties on this and other issue is nauseating

imacman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120017501#Comment_120017501

I don't think so, it's pure politics from Sinn Fein at play here. Cullinane will skate home with a significant majority in Waterford in the next general election and may even bring through a running mate. The TU is unpopular in Waterford but it's the opposite in Carlow/KK and Wex and Sinn Fein know this. Cullinane kicking up a fuss about the TU and rocking the boat wont effect his election in Waterford but may turn off voters off Sinn Fein in Carlow/KK and Wexford. So Cullinane keeps his head down and buys into "a win for the region" party line for the good of SF but not for Waterford.