Waterford University discussion

914

Not as heartbreaking as this

https://twitter.com/SimonHarrisTD/status/1512324038743502852?t=E1I48OhrEtfROGcx2XZZxg&s=19

The name Waterford officially eradicated from 3rd level education

friendlyfun

What a **** joke this is for Waterford. Again treated as second class and will be the only city without a real university. SF gave it their full backing despite being in opposition.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118933827#Comment_118933827

I'm not sure what you mean here?

SF gave their backing despite it being meaning less because they are not in government?

It's very easy to promise things you don't have to deliver.

friendlyfun

I'm saying they should have provided more more scrutiny considering they're in opposition. It's kinda the whole point.

imacman

It's a cold political equation for Sinn Fein that is there is nothing to be gained for Cullinane opposing the TU. He will get elected and probably bring in a running mate in next time, his position on the TU wont affect that. But Sinn Fein want to up their vote in Carlow/Kilkenny and Wexford constituencies where the TU idea is extremely popular. (no surprise) So if he did oppose it and made a stand on a university for Waterford it might bring in a few more votes in Waterford(which he doesn't need) but it would hurt Sinn Fein in the other southeast constituencies. So party comes first and going along with the TU concept makes sense for Sinn Fein .

Dunmoreroader

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/nui-galway-to-change-its-name-amid-confusion-over-its-proper-title-1.4863260

Oh the irony; not enough 'Galway' in NUI Galway. Those Galwegians don't know how lucky & privileged they are.

JimWinters

SETU’s President announced, as Willie Donnelly and Patricia Mulcahy step down.

Professor Campbell looks to be very well suited to the role. It’s great to have someone independent of both IoTs and her experience in strategy to lead the new entity, one positive at least. Fingers crossed she gets the resources she needs to develop the TU.

https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/db0d7-south-east-technological-universitys-first-president-named-by-minister-harris/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/veronica-campbell-2095864b?originalSubdomain=ie

Finnbar01

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118984759#Comment_118984759

They'll probably get extra millions in government funding for the name change.

Dunmoreroader

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118987188#Comment_118987188

Great, seems to have good credentials for the role and another ex-Trinity appointment a-la the Chairman should be a plus, I suppose.

As this is, hopefully a long-term appointment, I hope she is going to base herself in the region, ideally in or around Waterford. Could do without another Chief Executive being chauffeured in and out of the city via the M9. I like to see people with skin in the game running things.

imacman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118987694#Comment_118987694

Getting rid of Patrica Mulcahy is a step in the right direction if the TU is to be a sucess. She has been a disgrace as a leader throughout the whole merger process whose main goal seemed to have been to bully and disenfranchise WIT so Carlow could get their way. Hopefully, we can move on, and the new leadership can dismantle to authoritarian leadership structure in Carlow.

Valhalla90

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118989887#Comment_118989887

It killed her to even mention WITs name in interviews, out with the old!

914

And there it is. SETU is now official. Now the fight switches to ensuring everything that was promised is delivered.

The name Waterford now also officially eradicated from 3rd level education.

Phil Hogan must be buzzin

JimWinters

Simon Harris is apparently going the Waterford campus on Tuesday to mark the occasion before going to Carlow and Wexford.

I hope he doesn’t come empty handed like the last time…

914

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119000792#Comment_119000792

That will probably tell us all we need to know. Surely he announces crystal site or turn the sod on the new engineering building.

If not then I think it will set for the tone for what we have all been saying.

Crystal and engineering building will come no doubt but so much more is needed

Finnbar01

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119001408#Comment_119001408

The new engineering campus will be located up in Wexford.

invara

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119003209#Comment_119003209

Not sure of that Finbar.

The PPP is a five-building bundle (with Galway, Letterkenny, Limerick as well as Carlow and Waterford: https://www.ndfa.ie/project/higher-education-ppp-programme-1), a considerable way through planning and tendering. It is very unlikely to be dumped, but it has lost another year in Government faffing. SETU Waterford, as it is now, has a large engineering faculty and established courses- these cannot be moved more than 45km based on existing employment contracts— I do not know SETU Carlow as well, but they do have engineering staff and again they are outside the magic 45km redeployment zone set down in national wage agreements. I am not sure anyone is sticking their hand in their pockets to fund a duplicate engineering outfit 45 minutes down the road.

The Minister has already indicated that the new Wx campus is a replacement accommodation for the existing Wx footprint which is housed in unsuitable accommodation in the old St Peter's seminary building. What most people do not twig is the capital costs in higher education can be equal to 1 or 2-year payroll for a site, so a €10m building usually has a €10m annual payroll that needs to be met by serious activity to justify its existence. It is hard to see what viable and thus sustainable activities could be grown in Wx, if significant spending is to happen there it needs a watertight plan so that it does not turn into another Tipp Inst or Maynooth KK- the stakes are too big for the region.

The ideas rolling around for creating a sustainable footprint in Wx are- an integrated research business incubation space (like arclabs) built around a smart specialism (environmental tech makes sense with the EPA and Rosslare wind energy hub; agri also makes sense with the dept of ag in Johns Castle), a flexible teaching delivery space for remote and Wx specific delivery (the MBA could work well there) and hot desk spaces for Wx based staff on the Carlow/Waterford campuses- all acorns that could see something more elaborate grow, sustainable wins turning into real and new academic muscle; as well as of course the existing Wx provision. There is also talk of Enniscorthy, New Ross, Kilkenny and Clonmel versions of that kind of a regional platform, each at an appropriate scale and thoughtful specialism linked to the local enterprise eco-system.

But honestly, there is a new sheriff in town, and chances are the complexity of integration focuses all of the available bandwidth before attention turns to new adventures. Who knows.

lertsnim

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119003209#Comment_119003209

Says who?

Valhalla90

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119003209#Comment_119003209

Its taken over 10 years and this building still hasn't started, I highly doubt its going to be built now in Wexford.

914

Presume Harris came hands swinging again? Haven't heard anything other than SETU is official now

imacman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119007860#Comment_119007860

I really hope the new leadership can stand up to the parish pump politicians in Wexford and Kilkenny and make sure as much investment as possible goes into the two main campuses. There has been a long line of small campuses failures across the country especially the ones offering undergraduate courses to school leavers.

The simple truth is that cohort want to go to campuses of scale with all the facilities and services that offers not some small campus in a one-horse town (Wexford not Kilkenny). There is a place for adult ed, springboard and lifelong learning courses in these regional towns but no undergraduate or mainstream masters should be taught outside the two main campuses. The situation in Wexford illustrates this fact with around 75% of the undergraduate students down there transferring to the main campus in Carlow for second year.

Cooljude

There is minimum student transfer between Wexford and Carlow at undergraduate level. At most under 5 students in any given year and for most years, there are none. Where did the 75% figure come from?

petronius

I think the demise of the Institute of technology brand is a shame (will there be any IT left?). Maybe having them validated by a Technical NUI/ National Technical University. So you would have had TU, Waterford, Sligo, Carlow, Tralee, Cork, etc.

What rationalizing benefits will the merging of Carlow and Waterford have? Do they need 2 Presidents? Registrars? and are they both going to be running rival courses? duplication?

If SETU is an umbrella, should it not also award degrees that are run in Carlow College? I am sure Kilkenny feels left out, unfortunately, Maynooth pulled out of its Kilkenny campus at St Kieran's which served as an avenue into 3rd level for a lot of non-traditional students such as mature and young mums.

Technical University Of The South East.... TUOTSE pronounced Tootsie ;)

914

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119019781#Comment_119019781

Why merge IoTs, the below is from the Irish times.

Why are there technological universities?

The idea was first mentioned back in recession-ravaged 2009, when An Bord Snip Nua called for institutes of technology to merge as a cost-saving measure.

As the economy slowly but surely improved, however, it became less about saving money and more about making it.

International students – a big source of income for the cash-strapped third-level sector – were willing to pay money to study abroad, although they didn’t know what an “institute of technology” was, putting the IoTs at an immediate competitive disadvantage. But they knew what the “university” in “technological university” meant.

914

Based on the above, I think it is purely cost saving, while it may incur a cost initially, the overall goal will be to save money.

Think about it SETU (Waterford and Carlow) need 500 million between them for this to be a success so as IoTs we have two institutions looking for approx 250million each.

That is never going to happen, now that SETU exists and the government invest say 200 - 250 million it will be sold as major investment into 3rd level education into the South East.

The other 250 million never comes. Then in future rather than funding two institutions they will be only funding one.

914

Also interesting to hear a member or WIT students union on WLR this morning saying that the major advantage of TU is IoTs are not recognised or known in Europe or the US and students have less opportunities due to this so having the name "University" in the title will mean they are now recognised in the EU and US and will open more opportunities.

Made me feel bad for the poor lads from the worlds number one University MIT!

Sounds like they are all on the kool-Aid out in SETU!

petronius

It is the same path the NIHEs went! and the redbricks/polytechnics did in the UK. I think there is a lot of snobbishness an ego thing. I recall DIT graduates had their degrees rubberstamped by Trinity (nice little earner for them).

If it is only a marketing scam to get more foreigners to subsidize Irish students? why bother! let the NUI or an NTUI validate them to give them the label they want.

I like the progression routes RTCs/IoTs provided in the past, from technical qualifications, PLC courses, certs, and diplomas up to Degree and postgraduate. Now it is just a pissing contest only valuing the "higher-level" qualifications.

But Waterford and Carlow could have been doing tailored courses for the industries that serve their areas agri-food, equine, and in the past, the crystal and beet factory

invara

Our first good look at new SETU chairperson Patrick Prendergast in the Oireachtas committee today- https://media.heanet.ie/page/e4a322f03d3345f8976f7b075775f8f0 from 29 min 46 sec... for the enthusiasts.

My thoughts are that the core message was very strong— ambitions and expectations have been raised, deliver funding, buildings and people more appropriate contracts (~50 mins mark). He was distinctively different in orientation from the other TU chairs in orientating toward research. He came over as tough and clear. He carried water for the regional-ness of the whole venture, but did ignore the clubby Wexford sleveenism (~59min).

mail

Patrick Prendergast is a former Provist at Trinity College and a proud WEXFORD man!

So hopefully he will ensure his own county is allowed their fair share.

Christy Browne

On the new @SETUIreland Twitter account, 8 out of the last 11 posts are related to the Carlow campus, with 3 more general. Have to go back 12 posts before getting a look at something Waterford related - but again we're not mentioned by name. I wonder where the account is being run from....

914

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119078711#Comment_119078711

Just listened to it all there. While politicians have started there is no difference between a stand alone Uni and a TU, it is clear from that round table discussion, there is a huge difference, mainly around funding and borrowing etc

Which is crucial to any success.