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3x01;02: The Second Coming; The Butterfly Effect **SPOILERS**

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    #32
    leninbenjamin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,983 ✭✭✭leninbenjamin


    it did enough for me to probably continue watching the series, but it still contains the exact same problems series 2 did. again characters acting weird and out of context with their usual personalities and abilities, and so many different plots that it becomes hard to watch in places.

    i also thought there was a severe lack of originality in some of the scenes, kinda comes across as a modern interpretation of Xmen i think...
    i mean the German and that whole gang, it's exactly the same as Magneto and his villains.

    Maya is the character that causes me the most grief. so hot, yet such a badly written character i can hardly watch at times...
    why would she bed Mohindar when she was revolted by his behaviour in earlier scenes?

    also, Mohindar = the new Beast.

    also, the time travel thing has got to stop. at least tone it down. so many plot holes,
    why doesn't Hiro just go back in time and replace the formula with a fake in the safe and then let it all play out?

    i'll keep watching cause it's quite entertaining when you stop trying to analyse it, but it's far from the show that had so much promise in season 1


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    #33
    AlmightyCushion
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 35,059 Mod ✭✭✭✭AlmightyCushion


    Why didn't Peter just go back in time about 10 minutes before nathan gives his speech and tell him not to yap on about their powers as it fúcks everything up? The future changes and he doesn't have to kill his brother. Everyone's happy.


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    #34
    Ivan
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 4,560 Mod ✭✭✭✭Ivan


    If you really want to nitpick, you'll find alot wrong with television shows. In most cases though, you can make up some reason. Like star trek or something; plug plot holes with some techno babble, or call it fate or divine will, whatever.

    If you cant enjoy a show, for the story, then maybe it just isnt for you ;)

    I found the first 2 episodes really very good. The second being better than the first.
    One of the things I've always loved about the characters in heroes, is each of them has a dark side. Super-heroes and by extension, super-villains have a nasty habit of being one dimensional. They are wholesomely good, or insanely evil. Heroes has found a middle ground and for that, I love it.

    Claire cant regenerate large patches of tissue, we've never seen anything to contradict that. When she was cut open, she folded the skin over and it regenerated. In the glimpse of the future she has her head cut or broken off and she is clearly dead or disabled, presumably until such time as her head is re-attached. Therefore, she couldnt re-attach her head but would probably lie there until such time as someone found her and put he skull top back on so she could regenerate.

    Peter couldnt go back to before the speech and ask nathan not to reveal their secret because he probably wouldnt have been able to change his mind. And in a desperate situation as he clearly was in, the simplest, most effective option is usually the first option.

    Regarding Peter and his new body, I'm confused as to how that is going to be played out. Is the original character still there or is he merely going to be used as a substitute for peter.

    Matt's scenes got interesting for the first time since I dont know when.

    If future Ando had powers, despite Hiro still having the half of the formula (whatever it is) does that mean that Mohinders research grants people super-powers in the future?

    Mrs. Petrelli is such an interesting character now that we know a little bit about her. Her comments about Peter's first powers confused me for a few minutes, until I remembered the dream sequences, very good.

    All in all, a quality outing that answers some questions and asks alot more, but for once, I dont feel cheated.

    Oh and how cool was it when Sylar made his gun gold? ;)


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    #35
    lostexpectation
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,082 ✭✭✭lostexpectation


    what is it the sylar does to take people powers?


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    #36
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    I enjoyed them both, but am worried about the whole
    ma-petrelli-is-Sylers-ma-thing. Could it be a powers thing?


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    #37
    leninbenjamin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,983 ✭✭✭leninbenjamin


    lostexpectation wrote: »
    what is it the sylar does to take people powers?

    I think it goes back to the whole being a watch maker thing; he can figure out how things tick i.e. just look at the brain and watch the nerve endngs fire to see how people's powers work


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    #38
    Basq
    Registered Users Posts: 43,815 ✭✭✭✭Basq


    I did notice Weevil from Veronica Mars pop up shouting "I'm Peter Petrelli" at the end of episode 1.. will re-watch them tonight!


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    #39
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,470 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    Great double episode, I'd say its done alot to renew alot of people's faith in Heroes in general especially after the poor start of Season 2.

    As for syler, yes he "takes" powers by using his power which allows him to figure out how things work


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    #40
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,470 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    Ivan wrote: »
    Claire cant regenerate large patches of tissue, we've never seen anything to contradict that. When she was cut open, she folded the skin over and it regenerated. In the glimpse of the future she has her head cut or broken off and she is clearly dead or disabled, presumably until such time as her head is re-attached. Therefore, she couldnt re-attach her head but would probably lie there until such time as someone found her and put he skull top back on so she could regenerate.

    But as with other characters her powers have increased over time,


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    #41
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,470 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    leninbenjamin wrote: »
    also, the time travel thing has got to stop. at least tone it down. so many plot holes,
    why doesn't Hiro just go back in time and replace the formula with a fake in the safe and then let it all play out?

    Maybe he does do this but he hasn't done it yet so he doesn't know he did it, :)


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    #42
    KevIRL
    Registered Users Posts: 39,525 ✭✭✭✭KevIRL


    Top marks from me anyway. A much stronger start than season 1 and season 2, which can only mean good things.

    As an aside why do people continue to put spoilers into posts in a thread which has ***SPOILERS*** in the title. Particulary as the 'spoilers' are about the episode being discussed and not future episodes.


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    #43
    11811
    Registered Users Posts: 1,731 ✭✭✭11811


    Ivan wrote: »
    Claire cant regenerate large patches of tissue, we've never seen anything to contradict that. When she was cut open, she folded the skin over and it regenerated. In the glimpse of the future she has her head cut or broken off and she is clearly dead or disabled, presumably until such time as her head is re-attached. Therefore, she couldnt re-attach her head but would probably lie there until such time as someone found her and put he skull top back on so she could regenerate. ;)


    didn't her toe grow back when she cut it off?

    but yeah i see your point about plot-holes, its a show, a very enjoyable one at that, loved the new episodes, so far much better than season 2


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    #44
    gazzer
    Registered Users Posts: 4,056 ✭✭✭gazzer


    CodeMonkey wrote: »
    How the hell did they go from her being blown up to being an important aid to some senator? Tracy Strauss has been there in that position for a while, got the nick name ice queen cause of her personality and got ice powers. That can't be Nikki..

    That bugged me as well. Episodes 1 and 2 were only set a few days after the events of the season 2 finale. How is Nikki/Tracey so immersed in a politicians life already? Unless some type of mind magic has been done


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    #45
    User45701
    Registered Users Posts: 6,905 ✭✭✭User45701


    BArra wrote: »
    good start, dear god maya is hot

    i still want her dead andout of the season very annoying charactor butthat could just be memories of season 2 - her demanour seems to have changed aswell as her posture and attitutide and accent.
    abelard wrote: »
    Thought it was very good on the whole, bar a few small things

    As was said, the Claire/Sylar scene was a bit dumb, but ended well. It was small things that annoyed me about it - eg why Claire could't grow her skull back, why Sylar didn't hear her coming before she stabbed him, why he didn't just pull open the door with his powers etc etc. Just nitpicking I know, but how and ever. Also big plus point of the Claire story - no West!

    Agree on every point, i said every point (remember when she was on front of the train? i screamed ****ing **** is back when he swept in to save her but im just glad it wasent west)
    abelard wrote: »
    I wonder if Tracy is (was?) actually Nikki or not....? If not she must be some form of twin (ridiculous sounding I know). Or else someone else with a power of illusion or transformation. I thought at first it was just Nikki acting. Then Nikki with some sort of memory loss. Then some other split personality of Nikki. But the ice power was a bit of a surprise. It may have been a latent power of Nikki's all along (which would explain where Peter got the ice power at the end of season 1), but you never know.

    Hmm, we learnt in this episode that each person has a differnet power/reaction to having powers. Its possible that each split personality within nikki/jessica/Tracy each would product different levels of Seratonan & adrenaline depending on your personality. - just a guess. Besides that i dont think its nikki because i dont think it will be comman for anyone besides a small small few to have more than one power.
    abelard wrote: »
    Questions - did Linderman actually heal Nathan? It seems to be suggested that Nathan is just imagining him, but if so, who healed him?

    I dont know but it was simmilar to peters experience with wildmore? oh no wait is that the guy in lost? who is the guy who peter was taking care of in season 1 then went back to at the end of season 1 and could hear/talk/interect with him in the past?

    Power seemed allot like that.
    ixoy wrote: »

    I assume Nikki's power is something to do with opposites - first it was herself and her mirror/opposite. Then she gets trapped in fire, so her power manifests itself in its opposite - ice.

    Hmm - Very interesting i had forgotten she was in t he fire.

    In any case its no coincidence that Jessica served Linderman and now "Tracy" serves someone who has the same goal as dead and "spirit linderman" to get Nathan into a positition of power.
    abelard wrote: »
    Mohinder has been changed into a more interesting character. I was a bit unconvinced at him becoming suddenly hungry for powers when before it was always about finding a cure. It will be interesting to see what he becomes now, though, and if he'll become a villain, or devolve into some sort of beast.

    ?

    I think he is going spider/insect because his strgenth has increased and so has his agality & he can climb walls
    Mr E wrote: »
    Good theory ixoy.

    Great episodes overall.... lots of nice glimpses of the future which are bound to come true in some form or another.

    What bugged me the most - For Nathan's shooting at the start, why the f**k didn't the cops at the back of the audience not grab Peter? They were right beside him, he shot an unsilenced gun so it was obvious who did it, but they seemed more interested in rubbernecking....

    I assumed invisibality? we know peter could see your man when they where both invisible 1st season

    EDIT: 2 other things

    1. The new TV.com is ****e, worse than the old one. - birng back tvtome

    2.http://www.tv.com/story/11649.html?tag=headlines;title;11649&om_act=convert&om_clk=news
    ratings where **** :(


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    #46
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 81,979 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    KevIRL wrote: »
    Top marks from me anyway. A much stronger start than season 1 and season 2, which can only mean good things.

    As an aside why do people continue to put spoilers into posts in a thread which has ***SPOILERS*** in the title. Particulary as the 'spoilers' are about the episode being discussed and not future episodes.
    people still jump in to see the poll results, first impressions, etc.

    regarding nikki and the senator wasnt she missing for most of volume 2?


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    #47
    mewso
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 8,884 Mod ✭✭✭✭mewso


    I thought both episodes were ok. I must have a look at some of the first episodes from season 1 because I don't remember things moving along at 100 miles per hour. It's the worst thing about it is you get maybe 30 seconds before it moves on to someone else. Far too fast.


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    #48
    Gummy Panda
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,919 ✭✭✭✭Gummy Panda


    why did future peter have a scar on his face when he can regen?


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    #49
    4Xcut
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,248 ✭✭✭4Xcut


    Gummy Panda wrote: »
    why did future peter have a scar on his face when he can regen?

    To look badass.


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    #50
    eVeNtInE
    Registered Users Posts: 7,020 ✭✭✭eVeNtInE


    This post has been deleted.


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    #51
    lostexpectation
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,082 ✭✭✭lostexpectation


    Cabaal wrote: »
    Great double episode, I'd say its done alot to renew alot of people's faith in Heroes in general especially after the poor start of Season 2.

    As for syler, yes he "takes" powers by using his power which allows him to figure out how things work

    so why does he need to take off their head and find a particular point on their brain, and he touched it ,took something from it??


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    #52
    LeoGilly
    Registered Users Posts: 346 ✭✭LeoGilly


    Was I the only one who thought that future Ando was Peter using his shape shifting?

    I really enjiyed this episode. Can't wait to see these new villains.


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    #53
    ixoy
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 17,990 Mod ✭✭✭✭ixoy


    Ratings for these two were very low (for the show). I wonder if people have had enough?


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    #54
    BArra
    Registered Users Posts: 4,032 ✭✭✭BArra


    Gummy Panda wrote: »
    why did future peter have a scar on his face when he can regen?

    we'll find out in time i guess, but with all the nitpicking brigade out with their pitchforks on here, they will exclaim why didnt he go back in time to before this mystery face injury happened and stop it....

    ill just keep enjoying the show anaway :pac:


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    #55
    DirkVoodoo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,504 ✭✭✭✭DirkVoodoo


    Yeah the Mohinder story arc has definitely taken some huge inspiration (dare i say plagiarising?) from Cronenberg's 1986 thriller. Some of it is almost shot for shot, e.g. the swinging from the rafters, finding weird mutations while staring in front of a bathroom mirror.

    I like what they have done, the lines are blurred and there is less of a distinct good versus evil battle going on.

    Also, I think sometimes the philosophy of time travel has to yield to interesting story telling. Sure Hiro could just as easily go back and drop baby Sylar off the end of a pier bt it would be a pretty boring series.

    Battles between future peter and sylar are going to be pretty boring soon, neither one can die :(


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    #56
    Suaimhneach
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 4,436 Mod ✭✭✭✭Suaimhneach


    I dunno if I liked it. For a lot of the reasons mentioned.


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    #57
    AlmightyCushion
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 35,059 Mod ✭✭✭✭AlmightyCushion


    DirkVoodoo wrote: »
    Battles between future peter and sylar are going to be pretty boring soon, neither one can die :(

    Shove something big and pointy through their neck and they're as good as.


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    #58
    Basq
    Registered Users Posts: 43,815 ✭✭✭✭Basq


    ixoy wrote: »
    Ratings for these two were very low (for the show). I wonder if people have had enough?
    Think I am starting to anyways.

    Episode 2 was much better... but can't say I was massively impressed with the opening two episodes overall. It's like flogging a dead horse.. they really need something inventive and shocking introduced this season.

    Because it's on a par with 'Prison Break' in the "jumped-the-shark" stakes right now.


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    #59
    FX Meister
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,217 ✭✭✭FX Meister


    That first episode was as dire as anything from season 2. How can a show go from being so good to being complete tripe?


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    #60
    DirkVoodoo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,504 ✭✭✭✭DirkVoodoo


    For me, it wasn't season 2's story arc that was the letdown, rather the pace it unfolded at and the annoying romantic subplot between West and Clare. I'm curious, why is season 3 as bad as that? Examples, must have examples.

    Also, I would guess at this stage that the scar is a "Mirror Spock" kind of visual identifier for the future Peter, but I'm sure if present peter does get it later on, we will have some explanation.


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    #61
    Ivan
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 4,560 Mod ✭✭✭✭Ivan


    Well, from what I can gather from peters powers, they arent quite as passive as people with passive powers.

    I.e. he needs to know about them and then consciously use them. Like when he sees Nikki throwing Sylar around like a rag doll at the end of season 1, he realises he can do that too and so he does. Despite being in her presence for some time and having this power.

    Now, when peter and sylar fell off the roof together, Peter regenerated automatically despite appearing to be dead. Can really answer that one per sé, but his proximity to Claire at the time may have been a factor.

    Also, as someone else suggested a long time ago; he may just keep the scar to look cool and pick up chicks :p


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