AK47 wielding idiot on Sky News

kevteljeur

Come on lads, calm down, breathe before typing. This is an interesting debate, an apart from one or two wreckless comments, let's keep it impersonal and reasonable.

As I've already posted on another forum, I personally think that stuff like this has a bearing on airsoft only in terms of availability and sensationalism. I'm thoroughly against active promotion of airsoft as a hobby or sport, because uncontrolled growth will kill it just as it would anything else. Controlled, limited growth by word of mouth, with permitted retailers and permitted playing sites, and making public display of a replica gun (even when not brandished as a weapon) a public order offence is the way forward. There is no reason for anyone to display a replica gun anywhere in between for any reason, and the law should close that loophole, which would still make it possible for people to be collectors and not players, and some tracking scheme is not necessary. Any more than it is with knifes or baseball bats or what have you.

Just promoting airsoft for the sake of getting more people into it is a recipe for disaster, and will result in ad-hoc games being held off-site, and every Tom, Dick and Harry will be able to wave an AEG about in the street purchased from the fly-by-night retailers springing (pardon the pun) up to catch the newest fad. I apologise for my sensationalism, but that's how I see it in simplistic terms. It's actually a little more complex than that.

JonAnderton

I think the questions that are pertinent now are how is it controlled... Sites?.. retailers?... or the most workable idea... Both!

kevteljeur

JonAnderton wrote: »

I think the questions that are pertinent now are how is it controlled... Sites?.. retailers?... or the most workable idea... Both!

A permission to sell, and a permission to allow games to be played on a site... And nowhere else. Perhaps permission to own?

Gatling

but who decides who gets permission to to sell , own basicly licencing another words, then we get back round checks and the like ,
licecenced to own toys basicly

kevteljeur

Gatling wrote: »

but who decides who gets permission to to sell , own basicly licencing another words, then we get back round checks and the like ,
licecenced to own toys basicly

Might be Garda permission, it would be by some State body. If you want to prevent a situation where airsoft is banned by one means other another, then this would be your safe route. I used to be of the opinion that airsoft guns are toys but as several people have pointed out, they are not. They are undefined but look to everyone like guns. They are a pain in the @rse to the State, and sooner or later they'll do something about it.

Gatling

state body could work well ,most likely end up with backround checks got a record say bye bye to airsoft :D

tonky

kevteljeur wrote: »

Might be Garda permission, it would be by some State body. If you want to prevent a situation where airsoft is banned by one means other another, then this would be your safe route. I used to be of the opinion that airsoft guns are toys but as several people have pointed out, they are not. They are undefined but look to everyone like guns. They are a pain in the @rse to the State, and sooner or later they'll do something about it.

At last we get to the nub. Airsoft guns are NOT TOYS, just look at yer man's arse !. I don't know what everyone else is at, but I'm just going to have FUN at my fave site (Fingal), after all, it's no-one else's business if I have or do not have a firearms licence, if I enjoy dressing up and playing airsoft, what's the big deal, if a few little f***kers are running around acting the p***k, they will move on to something else when they get fed up.
We don't need an extended diatribe everytime some assh**e runs around with a plastic toy or replica. Let the Gardai get on with it FFS.
We're supposed to be having FUN right?
We don't need a big political deal to promote the sport, people that care for and love doing it will sort out the a**holes after a while.
The other dickwads will move on to water bombs or whatever.
As the pestered parent said, "If he can't bring it out on the road, what's the point"
Let's all settle down and let the sport find it's level for a while.
Hopefully the sensationalism will die down by itself before our nanny state and doj impose yet another unenforceable Irish solution to an Irish problem.
Just my 2c worth.

Arcto

I wouldnt sell an AEG in my store to a ten year old......

Well fair play to you for injecting common sense into it.

My point, however, is that it is legal for anyone to purchase an airsoft gun.

ep1k-w1n

Blay wrote: »

Id say the moderators will be touching you with an infraction soon enough :pac:

why are some of them guards?:eek:

tonky wrote: »

At last we get to the nub. Airsoft guns are NOT TOYS, just look at yer man's arse !. I don't know what everyone else is at, but I'm just going to have FUN at my fave site (Fingal), after all, it's no-one else's business if I have or do not have a firearms licence, if I enjoy dressing up and playing airsoft, what's the big deal, if a few little f***kers are running around acting the p***k, they will move on to something else when they get fed up.
We don't need an extended diatribe everytime some assh**e runs around with a plastic toy or replica. Let the Gardai get on with it FFS.
We're supposed to be having FUN right?
We don't need a big political deal to promote the sport, people that care for and love doing it will sort out the a**holes after a while.
The other dickwads will move on to water bombs or whatever.
As the pestered parent said, "If he can't bring it out on the road, what's the point"
Let's all settle down and let the sport find it's level for a while.
Hopefully the sensationalism will die down by itself before our nanny state and doj impose yet another unenforceable Irish solution to an Irish problem.
Just my 2c worth.

most sensible post so far.
fair play

Rew

ep1k-w1n will be taking a break from here for a couple of weeks. I don't care what you have to say on the topic as long as you can say it in a grown up way without resorting to insults sly comments at other users.

I really don't think some people realise how easily Airsoft could be banned in this country. For such a militant bunch we Irish generally don't like anything that even remotely looks like a gun. There are times when real firearms ownership hangs by a thread so toy guns would be nothing to them to ban for no good reason.

iceage

agreed. on your last point.

tonky

Rew wrote: »

ep1k-w1n will be taking a break from here for a couple of weeks. I don't care what you have to say on the topic as long as you can say it in a grown up way without resorting to insults sly comments at other users.

I really don't think some people realise how easily Airsoft could be banned in this country. For such a militant bunch we Irish generally don't like anything that even remotely looks like a gun. There are times when real firearms ownership hangs by a thread so toy guns would be nothing to them to ban for no good reason.

Rew, I've deleted my last post, no point in shooting onself in the foot. so to say.

Rew

tonky wrote: »

Rew, I've deleted my last post, no point in shooting onself in the foot. so to say.

You have some good points don't be afraid to make them, just don't walk on people to do it.

tonky

Rew wrote: »

You have some good points don't be afraid to make them, just don't walk on people to do it.

Point taken. Also sometimes it's hard to remember there are non-airsofters (i.e. members of the public & maybe the press) reading these posts etc.

Arcto

who monitors this datbase of "licences"

Ehm.....the gov? You know....the liscencing body? The people who would grant the liscence?


Duh.

steodee

Tigger wrote: »

i for one welcome our ak wielding overlords:rolleyes:

I dont think theres a better way to respond to a tread than that

TheDoc

a point on chipping, i dont think people think through the whole situation when they make suggestions.

If my boss decided to put chips into all his guns to track them, heres what must be consdiered.

Where do we get the chips?
What sort of data protection and constatutional rights do we violate when "tracking" customers?
Where do we learn to install these chips?
How much do they cost?

Evidently, chipping arisoft devices will be expensive, if your talking about actual electronic chips, if you mean a tag, thats a silly idea. But electronic, thats going to cost money. And the customer will feel that burden, we would have to increase prices to compensate for this added extra.

It puts an added burden and strain on our AEG repair god, who is constantly busting his buns working on repairs etc.

Due to the increase in price, it might drive customers to buy abroad, completely bypassing irish retailers, which has been flagged here as an essential part of helping the irish airsoft community.

Then theres loads of things, what because of these increased prices, and customers going elsewhere, what if I cant be afforded to be kept on? Now I'm out of a job.

What if its such a big price difference, it seriously damages the stores customer base.

Chipping is just wrong, morally and even ina business sense, and it wont happen. And i would refuse to have an airsoft device that is chipped to track me.


The common sense, and the root of the problem, is where these idiots get their equipment wether it be airsoft, pellet guns, airguns etc.

I can only speak about what i do, and the people i work with. And I know we have a very strong stance when it comes to selling to people, who are even well over 18, but look dodge. But its obvious other stores selling AEG's etc dont take this stance and what can you do in fairness.

As been said, theres nothing actually illegal once your over 18, 16 with a parent. And by right, i could give every little scumbag thats over 18 an AEG, and make lotsa moneys, but I'm sure my boss wouldnt get cross with me, if i refused sales to someone I didnt feel comfortable with. And its pity other people dont go down the same route.

SniperSight

Unfortuneately I dont believe there anything you can do to stop this stupidity!!
Sure you can educate those who want to learn more and are open to the concept of airsoft.
But these guys are just causing trouble.

I mean, for example, this country has incredibly strict gun laws....
But we here all the time about gangs and their shootings and seizures etc.

So , unfortuneately, I really cant see it being any different as regards airsoft.:(:(:(

The Warehouse

Then I guess all we can do is hand out leaflets with every sale maybe, have the rules and common sense things on the leaflet, just to show the gov that we are doing all that is poss to avoid such problems.


Perhaps all websites (involving airsoft)/retailers/sites could have these copied onto thier websites to help spread the message or something!

Frank the Manc

thats all well and goos but what about the cowboy operators
theres a shop down my way sellin dirt, but i was havin a look at a cybergun rebrand of the KWC uzi one day and your man told me:
" yeah thats a C2(not a typo) powered gun, that yoke will go through a wheelie bin"
told a mate of mine a galaxy MP5 would take down a sea gull another time.

so thats what your up against really, so chip away but it wont make a blind bit of difference

Stercus Accidit

Chipping would NEVER work.

Are people suggesting some sort of complex gps device is installed in every airsoft gun?

Where in my little kjw m9 is this amazing orwelian technology to be installed?

A large fake peq box perhaps, also, how much will this cost me? And what is stopping johny "this huge tracking device on my toy gun is ridiculous" from removing it.

Wheres naked dex when you need him to hammer the cold nail of engineering sense into this ideas coffin.


Education must happen, targeted education, aimed at those who actually already know about airsoft, as in the guy buying the gun.
Leaflets with every purchase, a feckin leaflet can be an a4 sheet printed off a home printer. AFAIK this is already the practice, so should be encouraged.

Our retailers are a credit to the sport, calmly explaining the ins and outs 20 times a day I imagine, this is the best course of action to be continued.

In my humble wee opinion.

Frank the Manc

Motosam wrote: »

Chipping would NEVER work.

Are people suggesting some sort of complex gps device is installed in every airsoft gun?

Where in my little kjw m9 is this amazing orwelian technology to be installed?

A large fake peq box perhaps, also, how much will this cost me? And what is stopping johny "this huge tracking device on my toy gun is ridiculous" from removing it.

Wheres naked dex when you need him to hammer the cold nail of engineering sense into this ideas coffin.


Education must happen, targeted education, aimed at those who actually already know about airsoft, as in the guy buying the gun.
Leaflets with every purchase, a feckin leaflet can be an a4 sheet printed off a home printer. AFAIK this is already the practice, so should be encouraged.

Our retailers are a credit to the sport, calmly explaining the ins and outs 20 times a day I imagine, this is the best course of action to be continued.

In my humble wee opinion.

well you could use RFID technology.....if you wanted like.:p

why would we chip a gun anyways, you can get one off the net w/o any chip you you wanted to act te bólix with it.

steodee

lads how often do we actually hear about these things happening, every now and then we are bound to see some wanabee gangsters acting mad with there airsoft guns. As long as these random acts of stupidity dont keep happening I think we are safe, for all we know the gun being used in this video could actually be real, maybe all real airsoft enthusiasts should just keep an eye on the news and if this stuff keeps happening we should spread awareness of the trouble thats caused by bringing our guns outdoors in public areas. Maybe we could get in contact with local schools that could help set up clubs for younger kids so they would know better.

Fallschirmjager

Busta Hyman wrote: »

WTF does my deliberate mis spelling of a word have to do with this thread?

Unfortunately it has a lot to do with it. The reality is we are trying to convince a skeptical general public, the Department of Justice, the Gardai and a host of other organisations of similar ilk. These various bodies view these threads, our posts and like it or not a judgement call is made on maturity levels. The txt speak used by some members on that thread and indeed some of the responses on this thread insulting the Gardai speak of a group filled with immaturity. Please note I am not suggesting you are immature, i am talking about perception. Now mix poor perception with a similar incident on Sky news happening in Ireland...and we are not in a good place to argue about us being mature enough to manage ourselves. If we dont prove that...they will legislate...it is that simple and like all laws it is a blunt instrument.

Busta Hyman wrote: »

well a tw@ is a tw@ you cant help that and neither can we but he will learn that he is a twat when he hoses someone in cover and then gets his "pure pwnage" "B00M Headshotz" from the oppo sniper

Actually we can, we can get him banned from the sites. Now that Boom headshot and pure pwnage is exactly what i am trying to get people to understand about looking from the outside in on this thread. If you knew little of airsoft except it looks real...now read that post again...that is what will happen, despite the fact that most sites will ban you for headhots. WE are presenting airsoft in a poor light and if you re read my post it is about us all putting our best position forward, one of maturity, one of fun, one based on strict rules. It is not based on the rule...pure pwnage and boom headshot. Quite frankly if it is or becomes pure pwnage, i for one, who has been playing airsoft tenish years abroad and here will pack up my aegs and bid ye all the best of luck.
.

Busta Hyman wrote: »

Cummon mid caps hold 100 rnds and hi cap 300 +

the issue is about how you play. dont get me wrong now and again i like a good blast as much as the next airsofter...but that ISNT airsoft. Airsoft is best played with skill and guile, sure filling the air with plastic has it part but it most DEFINITELY does NOT in cqb. There is a huge difference between 100 and 300 and if i recall from the klub thread (correct me if i am wrong) there was a discussion about a BOX mag which stores between 2000 to 3000 in an auto loading configuration.

Busta Hyman wrote: »

MY wife shot me. in MY house. with MY consent. with MY airsoft rifle @ 2" from my cheek on full auto and it gave me a welt but no broken skin .......
i do these experiments so you dont have to

Thanks but i know exactly how a bb hit feels, indeed anyone who has played can tell you that. Feel free to do what you like, what i am trying to explain to you is how it COULD be used against the very concept you are trying to prove. Again if you reread my original post, you will find i was saying they could take your photo and the discussion of a box max wielding maniac and present it in a very negative way.

Busta Hyman wrote: »

and i dont know where to start with that as that photo is my intallectual copyright and they cannot use it without my express permission. and again MY wife shot me. in MY house. with MY consent. with MY airsoft rifle @ 2" from my cheek on full auto and it gave me a welt but no broken skin .......
so airsoft is only really dangerous if:

a) you dont wear eye protection

b) you catch yourself on a peice of glass or rusty nail sans up to date tetanus shot

c) act like a retarded knuckledragger and run round the streets pointing your airsoft gun @ random ppl while waiting for the armed responce snipers to set up


i do these experiments so you dont have to

So here is how it will play. Lets assume the worst for a moment. They take your photo freely published on boards.ie. They show a box mag ripping a cardboard target apart for dramatic effect. They show it every 15 minutes for a whole day. You dont see it for, say 6 hours, So now the general public has been subjected to 24 seperate incidents of a 4 minute news segment. you contact Sky and demand the remove it, they do....who has won, them or you?

OR the DOJ is reviewing boards to see how well we are managing ourselves. What they find is a thread filled with pure pwnage, boom headsot, the Gardai referred to as filth, hard to decipher teenager txt speak, a picture of a guy shot at close range by his wife, and a guy on Sky talking about how dangerous it is...Now again i ask...who has won that arguement? do you honestly believe the IAA when preseting airsoft in Ireland will be considered any way in control of airsoft in Ireland? I hope you dont think i am picking on you, i am not and i hope you can see that, its about how we present ourselves, and that is down to the WE i discussed in my original post.

Busta Hyman wrote: »

btw there was a video put on youtube of a group of kids repeatedly throwing a cat from the top floor of a block of flats till the poor thing died after the 4th time . do we ban cats or blocks of flats? no retards are retards simple

again, like it or not we are classing ourselves with bottom feeding morons. We are saying we are a notch above this and it is simly not possible to ban cats or blocks of flats, it is however possible to ban airsoft. Also there is a major distinction and difference between airsoft and say a person using a knife. Yes the knife is far more dangerous, BUT and its a big BUT airsoft has the ability to fire over 100 feet and that is the concern along with the realistic look. that is the core of the issue with airsoft and all weapons..the distance...how we should be presenting ourselves is a lot better then we are. Again not to repeat myself, we need to be presenting ourselves as not only wishing for self governance and management but much more importantly, capable of self governance and management. As for the other poster who says he has 2 guns on the way, who referred to the Gardai as filth, am i the only person very worried about this? For all our sakes, i hope not.

I hope you dont take this as some type of personal slight, it is not meant that way. I am trying to get people to consider the larger picture here.

finally as i said before, this is just MY opinion, yours may differ.

o1s1n

Busta Hyman wrote: »

and i dont know where to start with that as that photo is my intallectual copyright

Your intellectual copywrite or not, stick another picture of your arse up again and you'll be banned. (Or any other NSFW image) Same with the offensive terms. kids read this forum too. Bit of cop on please.

Now, everyone, act civilly or this thread will have to be closed.