Undeniable Chemtrail Evidence

Smudgeyboy

Hope nobody minds, but that Chemtrail thread isnt much help to anyone! A lot of uninformed opinions.

Im sad to say, from what I can tell, there are two types of lines in our skies. There are contrails from normal plane exhaust and what have been called 'chemtrails'.

The Facts on regular Contrails.
Contrails are mostly water vapour
Contrails are usually thin lines that disperse and become invisible within minutes
Contrails are usually single lines in the sky, though this depends on plane
Contrails leave no mark on the sky
Contrails are safe for our atmosphere
Contrails never cross paths, this is due to how planes are directed and how quickly a contrail dissapears.

The Facts on man-made Chemtrails
Chemtrails spread into cloud cover and sometimes has fallout (cob-web like filaments, red/yellow powders, milky-white fluid).
Chemtrails are usually spread in grid-like structures, these spread out across the sky, depending on wind, and usually cover a sky within 3-4 hours.
Chemtrail effected areas show high levels of barium, boron, aluminium and silica among other substances that are harmful to breathe in.
Chemtrails do not dissapear, this is because, unlike contrails, they are not mostly water vapour.
Chemtrails, more often than not, cross paths

Video footage of regular, safe Contrail
1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBO2BmbZhHg

This should be a normal sight for ye, no need to show more.

Video footage of accused Chemtrails
1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWoFJ...eature=related
2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oupSTJ7CSm4
3. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tri3y0lPJs4
4. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7be0eE__yxs - Photographic evidence over Dublin, Ireland for a year.
5. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fA6-nB2N2Ng


Video comparisons between the two
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEFITGpXwZk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrN3Q...eature=related


So now we can see, if chemtrails were in anyway similar to contrails, they would act similarly and have similar results. They dont, in fact, they are nearly polar opposites.

One dissapears cleanly, & quickly, the other spreads itself out out slowly across the sky. The only conclusion we can come too is that these trails are made up of something completely different to contrails.

I have never seen for myself who is doing this, I just know it’s being done. Ive seen it many times with my own eyes.

Realising this is true it the first step to making it stop. It is dangerous and harmful. You've seen the evidence.


Now, I meant this thread to be more of an educating tool, because how can people have an opinion on something they dont know about? But if someone has a another theory Im always willing to check something out and learn.

enda1

Got any pictures rather than videos, youtube blocked in work...

Smudgeyboy

enda1 wrote: »

Got any pictures rather than videos, youtube blocked in work...

Not a bother man,
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa16/sciechimiche/Ireland-mid_Dublin__Ireland_April_2.jpg
http://www.apfn.org/apfn/GridLock_640x429.jpg
http://media.portland.indymedia.org/images/2002/06/212850.jpg

If any of ye were at Rage/Chemical Brothers festival ye might have noticed we got destroyed with them on Sunday morning. Covered! Around 5am I think it was.

Mahatma coat

shine on bro, yer argument is growing in structure.

still tho y'd have ta keep at the back of yer mind the Radarblockin games that theairforces play and the cloud seedinresearch research that is being done, and skywriter trainin.... and other 'legit' reasons for these things,

if you really believe in this might I suggest that the next time you SEE some of these, ring yer local aircraft control people andask them whats goin on, thentell us what they say it is.

Sherifu

I found some lynx beside the bed this morning. :-\

Coincidence? I think not.

Smudgeyboy

Their was an aviation expert on Joe Duffy yesterday talking about these suspect trails that disperse, I think he said he saw American military doing it, possibly on the way to Shannon.

Mahatma coat

as they say, Linkeh plz

Smudgeyboy

He was on for like 30 seconds! I better do some work man! It was only yesterday though, It was either just before or just after Declan Ganly was on...might be easy enough to find...


I'll be on later!

I'll check out that stuff you mentioned also, see what I can find.

oscarBravo

Mahatma coat wrote: »

if you really believe in this might I suggest that the next time you SEE some of these, ring yer local aircraft control people andask them whats goin on, thentell us what they say it is.

I'd almost pay for a recording of that conversation.

Smudgeyboy

I cant believe none of ye have seen these yet!

I have about 20 videos on my phone of them, next time you see a trail in the sky, just watch it for 30 seconds, if it doesnt start dissapearing, it's not a contrail.

I'm gone! Chat ye after

,8,1

If any of ye were at Rage/Chemical Brothers festival ye might have noticed we got destroyed with them on Sunday morning. Covered! Around 5am I think it was.

Really? What would be the purpose of this and was it dispersed by overhead aircraft at that time?

conceited

Why haven't "they" been caught putting the chemicals into the planes?
And how many planes would you think would be involved say for a small country like ireland?

Smudgeyboy

conceited wrote: »

Why haven't "they" been caught putting the chemicals into the planes?
And how many planes would you think would be involved say for a small country like ireland?

I have no idea who does this or how many planes they use.

Any of ye see them over the weekend? Very heavy activity over the midlands.

oscarBravo

Smudgeyboy wrote: »

I have no idea who does this or how many planes they use.

There seems to be an inability to recognise the sort of questions that are designed to identify non-critical thinking.

The question is: how do you suppose someone is getting away with spraying the population with all these chemicals, without someone noticing? Surely all these planes with all these tanks and spray nozzles would be noticed by someone, somewhere at an airport?

Moriarty

Surely someone would notice what would, I'd imagine, have to be the largest air fleet in the world criss-crossing every country in a methodical pattern while not following designated air routes.

Or are all the ground crew, air traffic controllers, airport staff, air transport insurers, aircraft maintenance companies and aircraft manufacturing companies also in on the conspiracy? If that's so, there aren't many people left who aren't in on it..

Smudgeyboy

oscarBravo wrote: »

There seems to be an inability to recognise the sort of questions that are designed to identify non-critical thinking.

The question is: how do you suppose someone is getting away with spraying the population with all these chemicals, without someone noticing? Surely all these planes with all these tanks and spray nozzles would be noticed by someone, somewhere at an airport?

In all fairness man, Ive posted up videos, my reasoning for them not being contrails, video comparisons between two.

Ive already stated, and it is pretty much common knowledge, that some plans are made behind doors. How do you justify this to the people?

Why bother? Most people think if it's not in the news, didnt happen! How could there be chemtrails? I'd know about it!

It seems to me (if we're being honest with each other) that you have an inability to be critical of your environment. These trails act completely differently to regular contrails. The evidence is above.

At this stage, it's a matter of distinquishing these as something safe. I'd be delighted if I found these out to be safe but I've yet to see or hear an explanation and believe me, I've done research.

Governments have been presented with this evidence and they deny these trails even exist...now they clearly do exist! I just saw them today!
So if there isnt a reasonable explanation, what do they seem to be banking on?

The majority of people saying we're mad, or just not caring, or not wanting to know...it works well enough! Most people dont listen until you point up and show them 20 thick white lines in the sky! Why be one of those in the dark?

Google 'Chemtrails' and tell me no-one's noticed. Find out what a contrail/chemtrail is and how it works and acts for yourself.

The majority of people report US Military planes doing it, but they would you know. I'd dont like to speculate over something I dont know for sure.

Smudgeyboy

The purpose of it is to fill the atmosphere with barium, to help the HAARP facility.

The HAARP facility is a U.S Gov. patented invention of weather modification buff Nikola Tesla.

oscarBravo

Smudgeyboy wrote: »

Why bother? Most people think if it's not in the news, didnt happen! How could there be chemtrails? I'd know about it!

You're continuing to miss the point. You talk about "evidence" for the existence of chemtrails (which I'll come back to shortly). I'm making the point that for an operation on the scale you're describing to exist, there would have to be a massive fleet of specially-equipped aircraft constantly taking off and landing, refilling their tanks with all this barium that's allegedly being sprayed.

If Ireland is being sprayed with barium, as you allege:

• What type of aircraft are doing it?
• Where are they operating from?
• Who maintains and refuels them?
• Do they file flight plans? If so, the IAA is aware of them. If not, they're continually operating illegally in controlled airspace, and the IAA is ignoring them. Do you believe the IAA is in on the plot?
• Is there evidence of elevated barium levels in Ireland? There ought to be, with all the spraying you're claiming is going on.

I don't expect you to have answers to these questions. I expect you to ask yourself these and other questions. That's what I mean by critical thinking.

It seems to me (if we're being honest with each other) that you have an inability to be critical of your environment. These trails act completely differently to regular contrails. The evidence is above.

No, the allegations are above. You've made claims about contrails and "chemtrails", but you've provided not a shred of evidence to back these up.

What you describe as chemtrails are contrails.

...believe me, I've done research.

What research? Looking at video clips on the Internet isn't research.

Smudgeyboy

oscarBravo wrote: »

What you describe as chemtrails are contrails. What research? Looking at video clips on the Internet isn't research.

This is simply untrue, and you actually have no evidence, nor even an interest in the subject. You really dont need to go to too deep into it to realise.

One you realise see these lines are rapidly ruining a nice sunny day on you you'll know! Honestly, I didnt believe when I heard either, but I also knew I had no idea whether or not it was true. Never paid attention to our sky.

These, when you see yourself (it's nearly a daily opportunity! Though alot of online journal are saying it's more night-time spraying going on now.) you'll know, if contrails did this, humans wouldnt fly half as much. It is actually obvious though.

Is this normal for a plane?
http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/4150/0210081501nv6.jpg

Where are these guys going?
http://www.rumormillnews.com/images/wis_chem2.jpg

http://www.masternewmedia.org/images/chemtrails-2o.jpg

conceited

Wouldn't ryanair who happen to be one of the biggest airlines in the world be dwarfed by the company who sprays us with these "chemicals"?
3 little jpegs is not what any rational person would call evidence and that won't cut it im afriad.

Ciaran500

Smudgeyboy wrote: »

I have about 20 videos on my phone of them, next time you see a trail in the sky, just watch it for 30 seconds, if it doesnt start dissapearing, it's not a contrail.

Do you have anything to show that all contrails only last 30 seconds?

oscarBravo

Smudgeyboy wrote: »

Is this normal for a plane?
http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/4150/0210081501nv6.jpg

Turning? Yes. Planes turn all the time.

Where are these guys going?
http://www.rumormillnews.com/images/wis_chem2.jpg

http://www.masternewmedia.org/images/chemtrails-2o.jpg

I have no idea. How can you determine the chemical makeup of the trails from a photograph?

Let's revisit your "evidence", shall we?

Smudgeyboy wrote: »

Contrails are mostly water vapour

Correct.

Contrails are usually thin lines that disperse and become invisible within minutes

Nope. Sometimes they disperse much more slowly.

Contrails are usually single lines in the sky, though this depends on plane

Nope. Contrails are always either two, three or four lines, depending on the plane. Each engine leaves its own contrail. For the most part they merge together in the airplane's wake and are quickly indistinguishable from each other.

Contrails leave no mark on the sky

That's a contradiction in terms. If they left no mark, they'd always be invisible.

Contrails are safe for our atmosphere

Not entirely - they consist largely of carbon dioxide, which contributes to global warming.

Contrails never cross paths, this is due to how planes are directed and how quickly a contrail dissapears.

Absolute nonsense. Air routes cross each other all the time, with carefully managed vertical separation.

Chemtrails spread into cloud cover and sometimes has fallout (cob-web like filaments, red/yellow powders, milky-white fluid).

By fallout, are you talking about these things reaching the ground? Got anything resembling evidence for these?

Chemtrails are usually spread in grid-like structures, these spread out across the sky, depending on wind, and usually cover a sky within 3-4 hours.

I've never seen a grid-like structure of trails across the sky, and I've only ever seen the sky covered with clouds.

Chemtrail effected areas show high levels of barium, boron, aluminium and silica among other substances that are harmful to breathe in.

Got any evidence of elevated barium levels in Ireland in the wake of all this spraying?

Chemtrails do not dissapear, this is because, unlike contrails, they are not mostly water vapour.

They don't disappear because they don't exist.

Chemtrails, more often than not, cross paths

Contrails cross paths.

Any chance of you answering the direct questions you've been asked?

Smudgeyboy

Fair play making me go into everything.


People inside would be very scared if an air plane turned that dramatically. The guy would want to be making an action film, I accept this is plausible, the photo is from America.

Here's a simple question answered.
Can contrails last for hours and spread out?
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080801154450AAa7kR7

Answer is, yes, under completely bizarre circumstances, the kind that could not be taking place all over the world, nearly every day, to the fullest of it's potential.

Ok, sorry, usual contrails last for 2 minutes, 5 minutes at most, make it 15 minutes if you want, chemtrails dont go away. Contrails will start to dissapear after 30 seconds.

The chemical make-up of these trails were judged using HEPA filters under effected areas (many similar reports online)

Contrails can disperse slowly yes, but not at all usually. See above.

Im sorry, most contrails appear as one line from the ground, as you said, I didnt think anybody would be viewing these from the sky.

Usual contrails leave no long lasting mark on the sky, jesus man, you know what I meant.

Sorry, contrails do a small amount of damage to our atmosphere. We know about this, they are still mostly water vapour.

You're very right, air routes do cross. These are not contrails, these are paths flights follow. It would be very unusual to have planes contrails (remember these usually dissapear within 2 minutes, (or 5 or 15 if you like))

As for fallout, chemtrails are the probable cause for 'Morgellons disease'.
Chemtrails and Morgellons Disease, Part 1-5 (Dont worry it cant wash your brain!)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5Fsk1-kXZw

Or are people now growing red unidentifiable fibres from their bodies now? The same that is found in chemtrail fall out. Please, watch it if you actually want your question answered.

You havent seen a grid-like structure? I could have told you that. Well Im an eye witness of 100s, here's some, keep an eye out. I didnt notice any before I saw my first one.
http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:bmjKKJhSdVZIRM:http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth/chemtrails2.jpg

http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:QAVKKsuLu5J7NM:http://thebiggestsecretpict.online.fr/nwo/chemtrails_bijlmer.jpg

For you to say chemtrails dont exist is ridiculous, you know nothing on the subject.

Contrails cross paths during air shows or in extremely rare occurances of planes crossing air routes at the same time. The chance of these being visable at the same time is extremely small when you take into account usual contrails last for 2 minutes. These would still not be identifiable as chemtrails as they would dissapear at some stage.


For you to say chemtrails dont exist is completely ridiculous, you have no idea whether they do or dont. This is a fact.

Why dont we let people make up their own minds, I urge you all to keep an eye out, this has been the turning point for everyone close to me.

More video footage-

Chemtrail 'white out' timelapses-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WabzHXBJTHg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVx3Dyc-N5U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HqgFBhFG5IY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3C_cCQYiNE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Ka3DdUsRDU&feature=related

Loads more on Youtube/Google videos/whatever place you use.


Chemtrails on TV
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C455lMfHfb4 -NBC4

EDIT*:Sorry everybody! There just Birthday Streams! Silly me, must only advertise in the U.S!
http://www.checktheevidence.co.uk/cms/SubliminalChemtrails_files/image001.jpg




Please look at what I've presented and make up your own minds. See the post at the start of this thread for video comparisons and more examples.


This is the best website explaning more, I think I've said enough to get some people looking up and looking in to it.
http://www.carnicom.com/contrails.htm

conceited

Is that all you have "www" facts, or have you something real?
You haven't a leg to stand on. All you have is youtube videos and a few webpages and no real data to support your claim.

meglome

Smudgeyboy wrote: »

For you to say chemtrails dont exist is ridiculous, you know nothing on the subject.

You haven't shown anything that proves the existence of chem trails. You've shown pictures and video of contrails which you say are unusual and which you claim are chemtrails. But you've also posted that these could actually be contrails but just not so common ones. I can't even imagine why anyone would want to poison us, let alone by air which would be very expensive and we'd spot the planes. Especially when they could just do it to our water which would be way cheaper and easier. Of course that still leaves a credible reason for doing it in the first place, which I've yet to hear. You can't answer even the most fundamental questions as to how this could be carried out without us finding out.

Okay lets try this for size... You claim that contrails shouldn't be able to cross one another, there wouldn't be the time. So let's take Heathrow airport, over 1000 planes a day land there on just two runways so your telling me that the flight paths of those planes are not going to potentially cross one another every few minutes? Really?

I'll be ignoring your paranoid ramblings until you talk some sense.

Smudgeyboy

conceited wrote: »

Is that all you have "www" facts, or have you something real?
You haven't a leg to stand on. All you have is youtube videos and a few webpages and no real data to support your claim.

Im not looking for a ****ing leg to stand on! Jesus christ people, I told you, keep an eye out.

Im not expecting to convince you of something you've never heard of let alone seen over the internet, I know you're not expecting me to either.

CONTRAILS DISSAPEAR PEOPLE! QUITE QUICKLY!
NOTHING NORMAL IN THE SKY WOULD SPREAD ACROSS FOR MILES EVERYDAY. OK? KEEP THAT IN MIND.

Hey, people said 'they' couldnt take over the middle-east by blowing up a building in their own country and 'they' could! 'They' can show you! Man, I'm paranoid!

I suspect Im talking to people who dont even know of the existance of the powers that be and how they work.

meglome

Smudgeyboy wrote: »

The purpose of it is to fill the atmosphere with barium, to help the HAARP facility.

The HAARP facility is a U.S Gov. patented invention of weather modification buff Nikola Tesla.

One last point...

This doesn't seem to be working out too well, the weather is getting more unpredictable in the states all the time.

Smudgeyboy

....What's the point?

He was a weather modification buff. It's his invention.

Im not saying they are controlling the weather, he has many inventions.

The HAARP facilty is identicle to a blue-print he had made to send energy across the atmosphere of the earth, in order to do this, it must be filled with barium, according to himself.
I cant be bothered looking for the link, if you want to know, you can look it up.

As for 'www facts', the location of everything on the internet starts with 'www', so what are you talking about?
The videos are not doctored, they represent what people have seen with their eyes.

It's technically possible these are contrails, it's also technically possible to throw a man half a mile with your hands. It's ****ing unlikely.

humanji

I think you're confused. A secret government deciding to use an overly elaborate, incredibly unreliable and immensly expensive means to spread chemicals is ****ing unlikely. Especially when, as Meglome points out, they can tamper with water supplies etc for a fraction of the cost and hassle.

Ciaran500

You still haven't dealt with the biggest point. Do you have anything from somewhere credible that shows contrails don't last more 30 seconds? A link to yahoo answers is in no way a credible source.

oscarBravo

For me, a bigger point is the one I made about all these airplanes allegedly crisscrossing the sky in controlled airspace. Either they're doing it illegally, and putting thousands of lives at risk through the possibility of a mid-air collision, and the IAA haven't noticed; or they're doing it with the complicity of the IAA, and they have ATC approval.

Which is it?

conceited

Chemtrail Controversy





In the November/December 2000 issue of Weatherwise,
James Rowland of San Diego, California, asked. . .

As a dedicated Web surfer, I've become aware of some recent controversy concerning contrails. Some think there is something sinister going on above our heads in broad daylight and go so far as to describe certain patterns as "chemtrails." Can you please define what a normal contrail is and distinguish them from "chemtrails," should there be such a thing?

ANSWER:

Before visiting Web sites concerning "chemtrails," I assumed that "chemtrails" was a new name given to contrails by environmentally conscious people who are concerned that subsonic jet traffic injects water vapor, carbon dioxide, other gases, and soot into the atmosphere at high altitudes. These substances can alter the chemistry and radiative properties of the atmosphere, the high-altitude cloudiness, and perhaps even the regional climate. I was very wrong. In visiting these sites, I learned that �chemtrails� is the name given to sky tracks left by the deliberate release, either by spraying or mixing with jet fuel, of substances not found in "ordinary" contrails. The releases are allegedly occurring in many countries without the knowledge or consent of the populace, and they are being blamed for respiratory and other health problems.

I consider these claims unfounded. There is no evidence in the meteorological literature or photographs on these web pages to support them. I will summarize what is known about contrails (last treated in the August 1981 issue of Weatherwise), discuss some of the hallmarks that are supposed to distinguish chemtrails from contrails, and list some of the potential hazards of jet exhaust at flight altitudes.

Natural cirrus clouds form high in the troposphere, usually at temperatures below -40 degrees F, when there are sufficient ice nuclei (tiny particles that ice crystals can grow on) in the air and when the water vapor content is high enough. Upward motion in the high troposphere causes the cooling that brings air to saturation and forms the ice crystals in natural cirrus clouds. Contrails (an abbreviation of condensation trails) form when jet aircraft inject water vapor into the high troposphere or lower stratosphere, thereby bringing the air to saturation.

During this year, aircraft will burn over 200 million tons of fuel. The major byproducts of combustion are carbon dioxide (CO2) and water vapor (H2O). There are other substances in the engine exhaust, notably, carbon monoxide, oxides of nitrogen, sulphur dioxide, methane, nonmethane hydrocarbons, carbon soot, and other microscopic particles.

For every pound of fuel burned, about 1.26 pounds of water vapor is created but less than 0.0004 ounces of soot because aviation fuel burns cleanly. Even so, the soot provides plenty of ice nuclei, and the water vapor can usually saturate a large volume of air at the low temperatures where commercial jets fly. The result is the immediate formation of a contrail, consisting of tiny ice crystals in large concentrations. At temperatures lower than about -76 degrees F, contrails almost always form, regardless of relative humidity. The higher the ambient temperature, the less likely that contrails will form. At temperatures above -40 degrees F, contrails are not expected.

The persistence of contrails depends upon temperature, relative humidity, and the vigor of mixing between the exhaust plume and the ambient air. At low temperatures, with high humidity, and with stable temperature stratification (which inhibits vertical mixing of the air), contrails persist for many hours.

Below are some misconceptions about contrails taken fromWeb sites. After each, I describe why they are misguided.

Normal contrails usually dissipate very rapidly and are short in length. As noted above, under the right conditions, contrails can easily persist for hours. If the outside air temperature is very low and the humidity high along the flight path, the contrail can be one hundred miles long.

Chemical plumes (chemtrails) linger for hours and gradually merge to occlude clear skies. Contrails have these properties, and they are easily explained. The longer a contrail persists, the more it spreads. Measurements made of contrails two to seven minutes old (roughly 16 to 56 miles behind the aircraft) indicated widths from 0.25 to 1.25 miles but depths of only around one thousand feet. The vertical expansion of the contrail is controlled by the stability (how quickly the temperature decreases with height); the horizontal spreading is controlled by the vertical shear (how the wind changes with height) and small-scale turbulence, which inexorably disperses the plume.

It is not unusual for contrails to spread and merge so that they cover a good portion of the sky with a filmy veil of ice crystals. Sometimes the moisture and ice nuclei injected into the air by the jet engines can support the formation of natural cirrus, even if contrails didn�t form initially, provided that a gentle uplift causes enough cooling for clouds to form.

Chemtrails are laid by aircraft flying for hours in dangerous crossing patterns and in illegal proximity to each other. Parallel furrows, Xs, and grid patterns are tell-tale signs. At least for now and unless they have to divert around thunderstorms, commercial jet aircraft fly on specific routes--wide highways in the sky. For safety reasons, every aircraft is tracked, vertical and horizontal separations are maintained, planes traveling in opposite directions never fly at the same altitudes, and FAA Air Traffic Control notifies pilots of crossing paths. Often, pilots have visual contact with each other and, even in the clouds, radar aboard the aircraft paints a clear picture of other planes in the vicinity.

Contrails along parallel paths or criss-crossing contrails are merely indications of busy flight corridors. Many hundreds of aircraft are in the air over the United States at a given time, and many of them leave contrails. It is usually obvious at flight level but not often from the ground that the contrails are at different levels. Even if the contrails cross at the same level, the aircraft that created them were never less than a few kilometers apart.

When struck by certain angles of sunlight, chemtrails display bars of color, indicative of a chemical signature. Like cirrus clouds, contrails contain ice crystals, grown from the vapor in the jet exhaust. Certain kinds of crystals in the proper orientation, such as columns or flat plates, refract sunlight and produce colored arcs or spots in the sky. Such optical phenomena have been discussed often before in this column; they are covered in depth in Robert Greenler�s book Rainbows, Halos, and Glories (Cambridge University Press, 1980.)

Older, spreading contrails in which larger crystals have grown can produce refractive effects. There is some evidence that newer contrails may produce aureoles or coronas in the same part of the sky as the sun. These are diffractive phenomena most likely to occur when the crystal size in the contrail is uniform and very small. Several color photos of optical displays caused by contrails are on page 1,893 of the September 1997 issue of Bulletin of the American Meteorological Society.

Ice crystals from H2O and optics are all that are necessary to explain colors in contrails.

Contrails appear as continuous tracks; chemtrails may be suddenly discontinuous. In fact, contrails may be suddenly discontinuous. Especially in winter, westerly winds crossing the Rocky Mountains generate gravity waves, a series of up-and-down motions that sometimes extend from near the crest of the Continental Divide to 30 to 60 miles downstream. Wave clouds sometimes form at the crests of these waves. Sometimes the waves are regularly spaced, sometimes not. Air ascends and cools as it rides up toward the crest of the wave; it descends and warms as it approaches the trough on the other side. In the same way that cloud formation may be aided near the crest of the wave, so is contrail formation.

Even if the sky is clear, enough moisture may be added to the air by a passing jet that a contrail will form just at the crest of a wave but not elsewhere. Discontinuous fresh contrails are not uncommon in the Denver area in winter. They can appear in other parts of the country as well because gravity waves are ubiquitous. Flow across mountains is just one way to generate them.

Sometimes a fresh contrail is visible within a thin layer of cirrostratus cloud, but the contrail ends at the cloud edge. Sharp gradients of moisture and vertical motion exist in the atmosphere. A quick transition--from gently rising motion in moist air to sinking motion in dry air--that is responsible for a cloud edge can be equally responsible for supporting, then preventing, contrail formation.

I contend that there is no visible or other physical evidence of high-altitude spraying, and so I do not believe in chemtrails. The moniker might just as well be applied to contrails, however, for both the visible and invisible (chemical) components of jet exhaust are cause for at least some concern.

The water vapor released into the atmosphere by jet aircraft is estimated to be only 0.04 percent of the amount evaporated from the Earth's surface, and so does not contribute significantly to the greenhouse effect (whereby outgoing radiation at infrared wavelengths is absorbed by atmospheric gases and reradiated back toward the Earth�s surface). Jet exhaust may be a significant source of water vapor in the stratosphere, however. Ice crystal clouds formed from the water vapor probably have a larger radiative effect than the water vapor itself.

The average contrail coverage over Europe, where air traffic is quite heavy, is about 0.5 percent. The mean global coverage is less, perhaps only 0.1 percent. Researchers agree that increased cirroform cloudiness should affect climate, though they are still debating whether it will lead to tropospheric warming.

Though aircraft inject well over 500 million tons of CO2 into the atmosphere each year, this amount is still only 2.6 percent of the total contributed by the burning of fossil fuels. CO2 is a greenhouse gas, and how to control its rate of input into the atmosphere has been the subject of international political debate.

Aviation contributes about 3 percent of all anthropogenic sources of oxides of nitrogen (NOX) in the atmosphere. Nitrogen oxides tend to increase ozone in the troposphere, where it is not wanted. "Ozone alerts" in Houston made news last summer when the high concentration of ozone near the ground became a health hazard. There is suspicion that NOX also contributes to the destruction of ozone in the stratosphere, but the jury is still out. Stratospheric ozone partially shields the Earth�s surface from ultraviolet light that causes sunburn and is implicated in some skin cancers. Jet exhaust nearly doubles the background concentration of oxides of nitrogen in the Northern Hemisphere�s stratosphere.

In summary, legitimate concerns about contrails and other products of jet fuel combustion are that 1) the Earth-atmosphere radiation budget may change because of more high, thin, ice-crystal clouds and the increase in greenhouse gases, principally water vapor and carbon dioxide and 2) oxides of nitrogen alter ozone concentrations in the troposphere and stratosphere.





Weather Queries are answered by NOAA meteorologist THOMAS SCHLATTER.


http://web.archive.org/web/20010309094441/http://www.weatherwise.org/qr/qry.chemtrail.html

Smudgeyboy

Humanji, tampering with the water wouldn’t cause the same thing, you didn’t read what I've been saying.

It seems the purpose to fill the atmosphere with barium in order to send energy from the HAARP facility in the U.S, to somewhere else. The energy must be reflected off these heavy metals in the air.

The HAARP facility is an invention of Nikola Tesla. The U.S patented a lot of Tesla's work just before his death.
http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Nikola-Tesla

Ciaran500, that's not even a point.
Contrails are mostly water vapour
Water vapour will disappear into our atmosphere.
Now, in terms of this discussion, it doesn’t matter if it takes 30 seconds or 3 hours. It disappears, ok?


In reality, I've never seen a contrail last behind a plane more than 2 minutes. These are also rare, usually it looks like the trail behind the plane is staying the same size because it's disappearing and reappearing so quickly.

Take a look up and find one if you don’t believe me, or the videos I’ve posted up.

Take a breath somewhere cold if you don’t believe water vapour disappears.
On contrails-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contrail
http://cimss.ssec.wisc.edu/wxwise/class/contrail.html


OscarBravo, I wish I had the answers to these questions! But with all Government conspiracies, these are the ones that are impossible to answer. I don’t know how they do the things they do, all I know is they do it. I'm aware this wont be enough to convince you of the existence of these, as I said before, keep an eye out.

So to recap, contrails are mostly water vapour. Water vapour will disappear quite quickly into our atmosphere, meaning most of the trail will be gone.
Contrails can spread out.
Contrail can look like clouds.
Contrails can cross paths.
Contrails Disappear.
If they do persist, there's no way there are doing so all over the world everday. Is everytown under heavy air traffic and have identical weather? No.


What I call chemtrails appear in large groups, usually once a day.

These trails are left in a grid-like structure usually. They spread out over the course of 3-5 hours (depending on wind) covering the whole sky over a town for the rest of the day. The next day is a whitish blue ‘messy’ looking sky.

Conceited, the posts above covers your arguements.

As I said before boys, keep an eye out and it will be obvious.

Ciaran500

Smudgeyboy wrote: »

Ciaran500, that's not even a point.
Contrails are mostly water vapour
Water vapour will disappear into our atmosphere.
Now, in terms of this discussion, it doesn’t matter if it takes 30 seconds or 3 hours. It disappears, ok?

Its a huge point because most of the videos/pictures are taken based on the assumption that contrails disperse quickly, if they last they're a chemtrail.

Smudgeyboy wrote: »

In reality, I've never seen a contrail last behind a plane more than 2 minutes. These are also rare, usually it looks like the trail behind the plane is staying the same size because it's disappearing and reappearing so quickly.

Of course you haven't. Anything that lasts longer you decided is a chemtrail.

meglome

So let's see then... It's been shown that all your picture/video 'evidence' of chemtrails are exactly what we should also expect from contrails. This so called weather control doesn't seem to work at all and in fact is having the opposite effect to make the weather worse at the moment. And to summarise other than you wanting chemtrails to exist there is no actual evidence whatsoever. Your fantasies are interesting and all that but that doesn't stop them being fantasies.

Mahatma coat

Lad next time YOU see a 'chemtrail' ring Airtrafic controland ask

Mahatma coat

Lad next time YOU see a 'chemtrail' ring Airtrafic controland ask

oscarBravo

Smudgeyboy wrote: »

OscarBravo, I wish I had the answers to these questions! But with all Government conspiracies, these are the ones that are impossible to answer. I don’t know how they do the things they do, all I know is they do it. I'm aware this wont be enough to convince you of the existence of these, as I said before, keep an eye out.

You don't know anything of the kind. You've bought into a theory with no useful evidence to back it up, and are refusing to confront the sort of questions that would make it clear to you that the theory is half-baked.

That's what I meant about a lack of critical thinking.

Oh yeah, you were going to get me some evidence of elevated barium levels in Ireland?

Smudgeyboy

Ciaran500, Im not a parrot. People who can read, please dont make me repeat myself.

Contrails are VAPOUR TRAILS for the most part, would you not be weirded out if you took a breath in a cold day and the vapour lingered there for hours?

CHEMTRAILS LAST FOR HOURS AND HOURS AND DONT GO AWAY, Anything else, Im labeling a contrail, seems a fair way of doing it dont you think?

Contrails dont last 2-3 hours, they last minutes, but Im willing to call anything that does last 2-3 hours a contrail, ok? Anything more is suspect.

Ok, apart from the barium levels in Ireland question, which, as far as I can tell, there's no proof of in Ireland at the moment, what did I not answer?

As I said before, there's many reports of high barium levels under chemtrail effected areas online.


Chemtrails take 5-6 hours usually to cover a sky in white, if you havent seen these and not willing to take video footage of this as evidence you can shut up until you see them yourself because nothing, as I've said, will convince you.

Ive seen 4 contrails so far today (I'm working outside), one the trail lasted about 60 seconds (when focusing on one point), two of them were going faster, the trails lasted about 120 seconds, the last one was also about one minute.

We still have the sky that was there when I woke up, no difference.
I accept these contrails are normal.

I will take still photos next time I see a chemtrail operation. You will see the sky go from clear blue to hazey white as a direct result of this spraying.

Mahatma Coat, will do, thanks for reading what I've been, for the most part, wasting my time typing. Thanks to anyone else also.

Ciaran500

Smudgeyboy wrote: »

Contrails are VAPOUR TRAILS for the most part, would you not be weirded out if you took a breath in a cold day and the vapour lingered there for hours?

You posted this above:
The persistence of contrails depends upon temperature, relative humidity, and the vigor of mixing between the exhaust plume and the ambient air. At low temperatures, with high humidity, and with stable temperature stratification (which inhibits vertical mixing of the air), contrails persist for many hours.

Smudgeyboy wrote: »

CHEMTRAILS LAST FOR HOURS AND HOURS AND DONT GO AWAY, Anything else, Im labeling a contrail, seems a fair way of doing it dont you think?

Contrails dont last 2-3 hours, they last minutes, but Im willing to call anything that does last 2-3 hours a contrail, ok? Anything more is suspect.

Its not fair at all. You have decided that contrails last only a few minutes with no evidence to back this up and even posted evidence contrary to it.

oscarBravo

Smudgeyboy wrote: »

Contrails are VAPOUR TRAILS for the most part, would you not be weirded out if you took a breath in a cold day and the vapour lingered there for hours?

Not a valid comparison, unless your idea of a cold day is in the region of -60°C.

Ok, apart from the barium levels in Ireland question, which, as far as I can tell, there's no proof of in Ireland at the moment, what did I not answer?

Don't you think that's rather an important question?

You've posited that the purpose of all this spraying is to increase atmospheric barium levels. You've also claimed that there has been a great deal of spraying over Ireland lately. This allows us to propose a test of your theory: if what you say is true, there should be evidence of significantly elevated barium levels in Ireland.

There isn't.

This means that your theory has been falsified. To continue to believe in it defies reason. Once you've posited a testable theory and found it wanting, you must reconsider your premises.

As I said before, there's many reports of high barium levels under chemtrail effected areas online.

Are any of these reports credible?

Smudgeyboy

Ok, forget it everybody, these things act nothing like vapour, but I have no lab reports that saying there's barium in them so they must be vapour. Explain your logic?

Is there regular testing going on for barium levels in Ireland? Can you link me please?

To say this theory is falsified is also ridiculous, I cant prove myself there's barium in them, I dont have the know-how nor equipment.

It's the most logical explanation when you look into Tesla and HAARP, and these online reports

High Barium Levels frim spraying reports-

You'll probably find this most credible, from a US news station (KSLA NEWS)-
http://www.ksla.com/Global/story.asp?s=7339345

Same KSLA report here- http://www.jonesreport.com/article/01_08/080108_chemtrails.html


Phoenix Air Quality test & Italy- http://www.rense.com/general82/chemit.htm

mmmmk?

Ciaran500

Smudgeyboy wrote: »

Ok, forget it everybody, these things act nothing like vapour

Chemtrails are vapour...

But I assume you mean contrails and they do act exactly like contrails.

oscarBravo

Smudgeyboy wrote: »

Ok, forget it everybody, these things act nothing like vapour, but I have no lab reports that saying there's barium in them so they must be vapour. Explain your logic?

Is there regular testing going on for barium levels in Ireland? Can you link me please?

To say this theory is falsified is also ridiculous, I cant prove myself there's barium in them, I dont have the know-how nor equipment.

You've claimed that they're spraying barium over Ireland. How come you haven't looked into whether barium levels are elevated?

It's the most logical explanation when you look into Tesla and HAARP, and these online reports

Tesla had nothing to do with HAARP.

High Barium Levels frim spraying reports-

You'll probably find this most credible, from a US news station (KSLA NEWS)-
http://www.ksla.com/Global/story.asp?s=7339345

What's credible about it? It's hearsay.

Smudgeyboy

Ok, sorry for wasting your time man.

kippy

Sigh,
Here we go again, another chemtrails/contrails thread.
Again, the original poster (God knows who he is, probably someone who was banned previously) completely avoids answering the very obvious questions that any right thinking human being would ask themselves when faced with a scenario such as this.
OscarBravo put them to the original poster in one of the first ten replies but there has been no effort to answer them.
As with any conpiracy the main things that tear them apart is the number of people who are involved in it and have to keep stum. For this theory to bear any credibility, a huge amount of people have to be complicit in it.
I am not denying that people are up there spraying this and that (weather manupilation etc) however a lot of this would be known about and much of it is happening in other countries. NOT over Ireland and defo not Barium.
Id like you to take some of this to the aviation forum (not the crackpot stuff) just posting a topic, asking people who work in the aviation inductry how likely something on the scale the OP is alleging is to be happening. It'd be an interesting topic and may help answer some of the questions OscarBravo put to the OP.

There were multiple questions put forward in the last thread, very few of which were answered to my satisfacition by the people putting forward the theory.
Being honest, I would be much more worried about the real world stuff happening around us every day that we can do something about, rather than some hair brained attempt at being controversial.
Kippy

conceited

CHEMTRAILS LAST FOR HOURS AND HOURS AND DONT GO AWAY, Anything else, Im labeling a contrail, seems a fair way of doing it dont you think?

Contrails dont last 2-3 hours, they last minutes, but Im willing to call anything that does last 2-3 hours a contrail, ok? Anything more is suspect.

Wrong!
And if you look at my above post you will see they last for hours or all day long.I think at this stage now your just pissing against the wind.

conceited

kippy wrote: »

Sigh,

Id like you to take some of this to the aviation forum (not the crackpot stuff) just posting a topic, asking people who work in the aviation inductry how likely something on the scale the OP is alleging is to be happening. It'd be an interesting topic and may help answer some of the questions OscarBravo put to the OP.
Kippy

Great idea.

Smudgeyboy

Conceited, well done on your copy and paste job. You win. You>Me, Ok?

It is possible that I run 30 miles and have sex with 50 different women everyday. It's also possible that I own a small island.

Kippy, please dont suggest I'm a 'crackpot'. Im perfectly entitled to be concerned with what I want and also entitled to bring my concerns to the public. What other people consider 'real worries', I would call bull-hits.

All I'm saying is look up people, you will see these.
Ask yourself, was it always like that?
I'd also like to remind ye that none of you gave any evidence at all proving me wrong.

Have any of the naysayers actually seen the grids I am talking about? I didnt think so.

I'm well aware of public opinion on this subject, as I am aware the public opinion on all true conspiracys.

Ciaran500

Smudgeyboy wrote: »

All I'm saying is look up people, you will see these.

You will see contrails. You haven't given a way of identifying chemtrails other than watching for hours to see how the trails disperse.

Smudgeyboy wrote: »

Ask yourself, was it always like that?

Of course not, the explosion in air travel has changed that.

Smudgeyboy wrote: »

I'd also like to remind ye that none of you gave any evidence at all proving me wrong.

We have nothing to disprove. You posted videos saying these are chemtrails yet you can't give a good reason why they're not contrails.

Smudgeyboy wrote: »

Have any of the naysayers actually seen the grids I am talking about? I didnt think so.

Have you?

bonkey

Smudgeyboy wrote: »

It seems the purpose to fill the atmosphere with barium in order to send energy from the HAARP facility in the U.S, to somewhere else.

Ah....good...we're getting somewhere....

You can point to studies finding otherwise-unaccounted-for increases in barium levels in teh atmosphere, yes?

Ideally, you can also point to studies showing that these unaccounted-for increases are highest when these alleged contrails are present, yes?

Contrails are mostly water vapour
Water vapour will disappear into our atmosphere.
Now, in terms of this discussion, it doesn’t matter if it takes 30 seconds or 3 hours. It disappears, ok?

Well, no, it does matter if it takes 30 seconds or 3 hours. If it takes 3 hours than all your "quickly disappears" capitalisation is just so much hogwash.

I'd also ask you to consider the following, and to compare it to your above comments:


Clouds are mostly water vapour
Water vapour will disappear into our atmosphere.
Now, in terms of this discussion, it doesn’t matter if it takes 30 seconds or 3 hours. It disappears, ok?


Now...I'm not just larking about here. Contrails form only in specific atmospheric conditions - conditions almost identical to that of cloud formation. The whole "contrail turning into a sky full of cloud" argument is based on ignoring that fact....that you would have had the sky full of cloud even if you didn't have the contrail because that's where the atmospheric conditions were headed. Similarly, the whole question of duration of contrails is...yes...you've guessed it...dependant on whether the atmospheric conditions are far from / tending away from cloud formation (low duration), or close to / tending towards cloud formation (longer duration).

In reality, I've never seen a contrail last behind a plane more than 2 minutes.

To be more accurate...any contrail you've seen last more than 2 minutes, you've decided isn't a contrail but is something more sinister.

Take a breath somewhere cold if you don’t believe water vapour disappears.

Or, indeed, look at cloud-cover in Ireland! everyone knows that there is no such thing as a day where you never see the sun....the cloud always breaks up in a short period of time.

Right?

If they do persist, there's no way there are doing so all over the world everday.

Are you suggesting that they do? Are you really saying that there is nowhere in teh world where you can go through a day without seeing persistent trails?

I know that I don't see them every day, but do see them from time to time. Unsurprisingly, the weather on those days is always pretty similar. Not only that, but the trails seem to line up well with international airports, or flight-paths that I've noticed commercial aircraft flying on days when there's no 'trails.

I've kept my eyes open as a result of people telling me to. But hey...what would I know? I'm could be just making this sh1t up.

What I call chemtrails appear in large groups, usually once a day.

I'll also make the following predictions...

The will appear in-line-with and down-wind of major flight paths.
Where race-track formations are seen, they will match to known holding patterns for aircraft, typically around major airports.

As I said before boys, keep an eye out and it will be obvious.

Keep an eye out, and then read what someone tells you to believe. It will, indeed, be obvious.