M20 - Cork to Limerick [preferred route chosen; in design - phase 3]

Sam Russell

serfboard wrote: »

In we hadn't inexplicably bailed-out the non-systemic Anglo Irish Bank we would't have the amount of debt we now have and could have borrowed directly for this, and many other projects, at historically low interest rates.

But we did, and now we can't, so it has to be PPP or nothing.

Where would you put a toll? On the sh1ttiest and most dangerous section of road - so you have two candidates, IMO:

1. On the Buttevant bypass, or just south of it.

2. On the Charleville bypass, or just north of it.

- or both like they did on the M3.

marno21

Anyone go to the meeting in Limerick tonight?

marno21

To sum up the meeting in Limerick:

The current status of the project:

* TII will be appointing consultants for the first stage of the scheme (commencing planning activities), shortly. This stage will take 9 months and cost €1m which has been allocated.
* The next stage is the planning phase which is currently unfunded.
* TII estimate the planning phase will take 5 years and construction 3-5 years, meaning the earliest it'll be open is 2025.
* Kieran O'Donnell is hopeful at least some of it will be open for the possible Ryder Cup in Adare in 2026.
* The project is starting with a blank canvas and none of the work from the previous M20 scheme will be used.

Most of the meeting was about the forthcoming Capital Plan review and ensuring as many people as possible make a submission on the M20.

There was also heavy discussion about the Limerick Northern Distributor Road, and light discussion of the Cork North Ring Road.

Senator O'Donnell made reference to the fact that the funding mechanism was undecided, and it could be a PPP, perhaps a tolled PPP.

Again, it all came back to making sure as many as people make a submission for the Capital Plan. Limerick Chamber, Cork Chamber and several other organisations will be making detailed submissions, so simple ones by members of the public in sufficient volume will be ok.

Mc Love

Thanks for the update Marno - really wanted to be there but life got in the way. I've just sent off my email to capitalreview2017@per.gov.ie and hopefully it does some good!

JCX BXC

Did the same myself, kept it short but hopefully the point will get across.

marno21

Mc Love wrote: »

Thanks for the update Marno - really wanted to be there but life got in the way. I've just sent off my email to capitalreview2017@per.gov.ie and hopefully it does some good!

No problem. In fairness there was a bigger crowd than expected there and extra chairs had to be brought in.

It didn't really matter how many people made it to the meeting as long as people make a submission to the Capital Plan review.

Míshásta

captainspeed wrote: »

While I'd obviously prefer no toll, I'd still pay for it if it was there and was the only way of getting the project up and running. To go via Mitchelstown (which I've found to be quicker most of the time than using the N20) you have to pay anyway so it's no big deal really. The time and fuel savings are more than worth it.

What route do you take after Mitchelstown? I'd have thought it was just narrow secondary roads.

marno21

Míshásta wrote: »

What route do you take after Mitchelstown? I'd have thought it was just narrow secondary roads.

Southbound: out the N24 from Limerick, take the R513 junction and continue towards Mitchelstown, at the roundabout by the Firgrove follow thes signs for M8 Cork

Northbound: take the M8 out of Cork, exit at J13 and follow R513 for Limerick. Rest is fairly straightforward

serfboard

marno21 wrote: »

Northbound: take the M8 out of Cork, exit at J13 and follow R513 for Limerick.

I'd seen this suggestion on boards before, and I took it one time just to see - ended up saving no time, and on worse roads.

Haven't done it since.

boardsuser1

The following was posted on Cork Safety alerts on facebook at midday today.


Update: N20 has now been reduced to one lane at Ballybeg Bends as emergency services deal with the collision.
#CorkTraffic Reports of a collision the Mallow Road (N20,) at Ballybeg. Emergency services are on scene.


Garda Checkpoints Cork
3 hrs ·
N20 now down to one lane at the Ballybeg Bends as emergency services deal with a multi-vehicle collision

Reputable Rog

http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/home/245901/m20-motorway-plan-could-suck-life-from-limerick.html.
Mother of god, don't build the bloody road so.

AugustusMinimus

Reputable Rog wrote: »

http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/home/245901/m20-motorway-plan-could-suck-life-from-limerick.html.
Mother of god, don't build the bloody road so.

This is the reason the road has yet to be built. No other.

marno21

I'm disappointed in the Leader for this article. While Mr Kearney spoke about his own concerns, about a fifth of those who spoke at the meeting were against the scheme. It's not a reflection on what was said at the meeting but rather the opionon of one speaker

It's justifiable to say it'll disadvantage Limerick, but personally I disagree. The only rival to the critical mass of Dublin is a cooperating critical mass of Cork/Limerick/Shannon/Galway. Too small on their own but together are viable. Obviously not an option without the M20.

Vanquished

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Reputable Rog wrote: »

http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/home/245901/m20-motorway-plan-could-suck-life-from-limerick.html.
Mother of god, don't build the bloody road so.

This is the reason the road has yet to be built.  No other.

Eh no it isn’t. A plan to link the two cities by motorway was only devised in 2006. Up until that point piecemeal upgrades were proposed such as dual Carriageway from Mallow to Croom and a wide single carriageway scheme (road type since discontinued) from the end of the Croom bypass to Attyflin.
 
The reason this road hasn’t been built is solely due to a lack of desire, commitment and ambition from Government!

Vanquished

More bulls**t!!

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/re-route-a-threat-to-cork-limerick-motorway-448314.html

Isambard

A Northern relief road for Mallow? That would be a revival of the road from the Fire Station roundabout to the N72/3 junction locality presumably and would eventually become a feeder road to the M20 east of Mallow.

boardsuser1

Money before lives is the impression i am getting.

Anyone who thinks the stretch from Blarney to Mallow is safe in the long term is off their head.

I really hope they don't go with the Tipperary option.

Imagine all the traffic coming into the Dunkettle roundabout or the Dunkettle interchange as it will be called then.

This mess just got more messy.

mikeym

The toll company would be delighted.

More cars using the M8.

Isambard

can I remind people of this thread for the alternative route discussion.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057600214&page=3

marno21

ANOTHER article on the M20 from the Corkman:

http://www.independent.ie/regionals/corkman/news/support-for-corklimerick-m20-motorway-is-overwhelming-35636825.html

Based on the volume of submissions it's looking good for this to make it onto the Capital Plan review. I can't see the same amount of submissions for the Western Rail Corridor or the Ardee bypass.

Leonard Hofstadter

marno21 wrote: »

ANOTHER article on the M20 from the Corkman:

http://www.independent.ie/regionals/corkman/news/support-for-corklimerick-m20-motorway-is-overwhelming-35636825.html

Based on the volume of submissions it's looking good for this to make it onto the Capital Plan review. I can't see the same amount of submissions for the Western Rail Corridor or the Ardee bypass.

I certainly hope you're right, the impact for Cork, Limerick and Kerry simply cannot be overstated, it will really make the Cork-Limerick-Galway corridor a credible alternative to Dublin for large companies with their well paid jobs, which not only is good for the rest of the country, but the capital as well as it's clear Dublin's infrastructure is nowhere near up to the job. A more balanced population would make Dublin cheaper to live in, easier to get around and reduce pressure on schools, rent etc, in short it would make Dublin a better place to live in as well.

marno21

captainspeed wrote: »

I certainly hope you're right, the impact for Cork, Limerick and Kerry simply cannot be overstated, it will really make the Cork-Limerick-Galway corridor a credible alternative to Dublin for large companies with their well paid jobs, which not only is good for the rest of the country, but the capital as well as it's clear Dublin's infrastructure is nowhere near up to the job. A more balanced population would make Dublin cheaper to live in, easier to get around and reduce pressure on schools, rent etc, in short it would make Dublin a better place to live in as well.

I haven't seen as much of an interest in any other scheme to get it into the Capital Plan, and that's before you discount that outside of Dublin this scheme affects the most people of any. Plus you have TWO Chambers of Commerce working together and conducting independent research to get it in.

I fully agree. As someone who uses either the N20 or the Cork-Limerick corridor (usually go via R513/M8) at least 4 times a week it's getting fair headwrecking. It's even more disheartening when you a) drive the M18 or b) see the intense progress on the M18 Gort-Athenry, whilst the M20 corridor remains a series of green fields.

neddynasty

There was a guy with an American accent from TII on Newstalk Breakfast this morning. I can't remember his name. The first road he mentioned was the N20 and it needing an upgrade to M20. I thought it was interesting he brought that up first. He mentioned the efforts trying to get the M20 into the capital review plan and they were grateful Shane Ross had released some funds to get the project planning some focus again.

Reputable Rog

neddynasty wrote: »

There was a guy with an American accent from TII on Newstalk Breakfast this morning. I can't remember his name. The first road he mentioned was the N20 and it needing an upgrade to M20. I thought it was interesting he brought that up first. He mentioned the efforts trying to get the M20 into the capital review plan and they were grateful Shane Ross had released some funds to get the project planning some focus again.

Sean O'Neill, I thinks he's from Ennis but went to Boston for a few months back in the 80's.

TII are very anxious for the road to be built.

marno21

Deedsie wrote: »

He was asked by Williams how to alleviate traffic congestion in a Dublin. No mention of active transport infrastructure alternatives. 10 years of we started today is how long the M20 would take to deliver.

TII are in charge of Light Rail only. DART Underground and heavy rail expansion is the responsibility of Irish Rail

marno21

Article of the day:

https://www.96fm.ie/news/possibility-that-review-will-approve-cork-limeri/

Don't think the N24/R513 routes will succeed again. Feasability study will support the N20 routing.

I hope everyone has made sumissions for the Capital Plan Review.

neddynasty

From: PER Capital Review 2017 <capitalreview2017@per.gov.ie>
Date: Mon 24 Apr 2017 at 20:19
Subject: Automatic reply: M20 - Capital Review 2017
To:

Thank you for your contribution to the public consultation for the Capital Plan Mid-Term Review.

The public consultation will end at close of business on 30th April 2017.

As the automatic reply says folks, public consultation ends at close of business on 30th April 2017. That gives you 5 days to get your email in.

prunudo

I see the indo are covering the alternate route proposal now.

Anger at motorway spur idea that could save State €340m

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/anger-at-motorway-spur-idea-that-could-save-state-340m-35655076.html

Reputable Rog

Nothing to see here I reckon. I was a presentation given on the original M20 in 2010 and they outlined the case for the proposed route but also outlined why the diversion via Cahir was not suitable.
It would involve major upgrades of the junction at Cahir and also an even bigger upgrade at Dunkettle.
From my recollection there was never a plan to build motorway between Limerick and Waterford, just a Croom bypass type of road.

The N20 southbound has been a joke for the last two days, a speed van sitting off the climbing lane at Grenagh slowing everything down and yesterday a Customs check point in Rathduff at rush hour.
Sometimes I wonder about this country.

prunudo

I agree, it's typical can kicking that's become the norm in this country. Sure just look at how plans for Metro north are being handled.