M20 - Cork to Limerick [preferred route chosen; in design - phase 3]

Sam Russell

Mod: Can we get back to M20 please. If you want a thread on tolls, start a new thread.

marno21

Shane Ross wrote:

As Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport, I have responsibility for overall policy and funding in relation to the national roads programme. The planning, design and implementation of individual national road projects is a matter for the Transport Infrastructure Ireland (formerly known as the NRA) under the Roads Acts 1993-2015 in conjunction with the local authorities concerned. Within its capital budget, the assessment and prioritisation of individual projects is a matter in the first instance for TII in accordance with Section 19 of the Roads Act.

The Capital Plan published in September 2015 outlined proposed transport investment priorities to 2022. The transport element of the Capital Plan did provide for some targeted investment in a number of new projects in the Munster region including the N8/N25 Dunkettle Interchange and the N22 Ballyvourney to Macroom schemes. In addition, a number of other schemes targeted at removing bottlenecks and upgrading port access, will commence subject to necessary consents. It was not possible to include the M20 in the Capital Plan as the scale of investment to deliver it was not affordable.

I am conscious of the potential regional development benefits of an upgrade of the N20 and the significant interest in finding a means to at least restart planning work on the route. In this regard TII is reviewing the status of work undertaken on the previous planning application and is updating certain inputs including traffic studies. However as things currently stand, I do not have the funding available to progress this scheme to full planning approval stage.

I do expect, however, that the M20 Cork to Limerick motorway project will be looked at as part of the planned Mid-Term Review of the Capital Plan.

Slightly positive that TII are looking to use elements of the old scheme. Two benefits being cost cutting so money allocated can be used more wisely and secondly hopefully would speed things up again.

Existing N20 must be increasing revenue for cigarette companies at this stage.

spacetweek

This might have been mentioned already but when exactly is the Mid-Term review of the capital scheme going to take place this year?

rounders

Surprised this wasnt posted already today


http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/government-looks-to-boost-cork-limerick-motorway-446166.html

marno21

rounders wrote: »

Surprised this wasnt posted already today


http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/government-looks-to-boost-cork-limerick-motorway-446166.html

If Coveney wants the M20 so much then he needs to start acting instead of more waffle.

Creed managed to get 14m allocated to the Macroom BP this year so it's time for action, especially when there are several FG TDs in constituencies that the N20 runs through as opposed to 2 related to the N22 (Creed & Griffin in Kerry).

Reputable Rog

marno21 wrote: »

If Coveney wants the M20 so much then he needs to start acting instead of more waffle.

Creed managed to get 14m allocated to the Macroom BP this year so it's time for action, especially when there are several FG TDs in constituencies that the N20 runs through as opposed to 2 related to the N22 (Creed & Griffin in Kerry).

We're just going round and round in circles at this stage.
They have no intention of ever building the road, simple as.

boardsuser1

Reputable Rog wrote: »

We're just going round and round in circles at this stage.
They have no intention of ever building the road, simple as.

Which was proposed first? the M20 or Macroom bypass?

I remember hearing talk of the bypass in the late 90's but that was only all local talk.

The M20 itself, the funding can be found, but what is stopping Michael Noonan with the power he has at cabinet?

I'm not going back over old ground here, but the water metering program would have paid for half that road.

I'll go back on topic now.

marno21

KC161 wrote: »

Which was proposed first? the M20 or Macroom bypass?

I remember hearing talk of the bypass in the late 90's but that was only all local talk.

The M20 itself, the funding can be found, but what is stopping Michael Noonan with the power he has at cabinet?

I'm not going back over old ground here, but the water metering program would have paid for half that road.

I'll go back on topic now.

The Macroom bypass but likely as a single carraigeway. The M20 in 2007 was planned as a dual carraigeway, and likely before any upgrade along the N20 would've been planned as wide single like the Croom BP, the realignments around Buttevant and the new Mallow Road out of Cork.

JCX BXC

Reputable Rog wrote: »

We're just going round and round in circles at this stage.
They have no intention of ever building the road, simple as.

No, not simple as. Political pressure is how almost everything is done in the country, not intentions by the government.

Irish_rat

Painful as it is to say, this will get done faster with FF in power. Actually more investment in road infrastructure in Cork period.

Leonard Hofstadter

Another mention below. Now a 'priority project' apparently. I certainly hope we're not being lead up to the top of a mountain only to be walked back down again but at least they're still talking about it. http://www.newstalk.com/reader/47.301.343/96007/0/

Baldilocks

FF had plenty of time to do it in the past, but it never got done then! Bertie and the rest of the rubber b*llock brigade were far too busy pandering to the unions.

For some reason, ALL of our political parties seem to think that investment in infrastructure projects is not a high priority. Presumably because they tend to be long term, and thus the polticians might not get to reap the reward of 're-election'

Cookiemunster

Baldilocks wrote: »

FF had plenty of time to do it in the past, but it never got done then! Bertie and the rest of the rubber b*llock brigade were far too busy pandering to the unions.

For some reason, ALL of our political parties seem to think that investment in infrastructure projects is not a high priority. Presumably because they tend to be long term, and thus the polticians might not get to reap the reward of 're-election'

As much as I dislike defending FF, they had the scheme in front of ABP when they were in office. It was FG who killed it. FF built the motorway network we have. The plan all along was to connect the other cities to Dublin and then to each other and without the crash it would probably be complete by now.

marno21

Cookiemunster wrote: »

As much as I dislike defending FF, they had the scheme in front of ABP when they were in office. It was FG who killed it. FF built the motorway network we have. The plan all along was to connect the other cities to Dublin and then to each other and without the crash it would probably be complete by now.

The rate at which the planning on the M20 was going at in 2009/10 was unprecedented. They went from a couple of blank sheets to a scheme in front of ABP in less than two years. If anyone is to blame, blame Varadkar who then pulled the whole lot.

loyatemu

marno21 wrote: »

The rate at which the planning on the M20 was going at in 2009/10 was unprecedented. They went from a couple of blank sheets to a scheme in front of ABP in less than two years. If anyone is to blame, blame Varadkar who then pulled the whole lot.

If anyone to blame it's FF who destroyed the economy, and left FG to clear up the mess (I'm not really a FG supporter, but there's only one reason infrastructure spending dried up after 2008).

Vanquished

It was undoubtedly a huge mistake to withdraw the project from the planning process. However it was Fianna Fails wreckless mismanagement of the economy that set the project back the bones of a decade and indeed decimated the infrastructure budget in general!

Hopefully Coveney will continue to push hard for the M20 at cabinet level. Just a pity that Noonan; the most senior government minister for the past 6 years has displayed no interest whatsoever in the project!

pigtown

http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/home/242601/joint-limerick-chamber-economic-study-on-m20-gets-under-way.html

Limerick and Cork Chambers have commissioned an economic study for the road. They have been very vocal about how this is a priority national infrastructure project for a while now and have only just gotten around to commissioning a study. Surely such a study would be a fairly basic thing to have done before beginning their campaign? If the economic case isn't as strong as they thought or if it signals that it will have a detrimental impact on one of the cities will they then acknowledge this?

zulutango

pigtown wrote: »

http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/home/242601/joint-limerick-chamber-economic-study-on-m20-gets-under-way.html

Limerick and Cork Chambers have commissioned an economic study for the road. They have been very vocal about how this is a priority national infrastructure project for a while now and have only just gotten around to commissioning a study. Surely such a study would be a fairly basic thing to have done before beginning their campaign? If the economic case isn't as strong as they thought or if it signals that it will have a detrimental impact on one of the cities will they then acknowledge this?

As is so often the case in Ireland people clamour for things because it intuitively makes sense to them. And I guess that's been the Chamber's approach. It is ridiculous that they haven't got off their arses and commissioned a professional study before now. Indeed, it's absurd that the government hasn't either. In the absence of professional research it's easy to promote or detract from a project, irrespective of its merits.

Reputable Rog

loyatemu wrote: »

If anyone to blame it's FF who destroyed the economy, and left FG to clear up the mess (I'm not really a FG supporter, but there's only one reason infrastructure spending dried up after 2008).

No Varadkar is to blame, why pull the scheme as it was about to enter the planning process ?

boardsuser1

Reputable Rog wrote: »

No Varadkar is to blame, why pull the scheme as it was about to enter the planning process ?

It's outside Dublin.

Ireland as a whole doesn't exist unless it's Dublin these days.

Isambard

KC161 wrote: »

It's outside Dublin.

Ireland as a whole doesn't exist unless it's Dublin these days.

something to be said for that... because they serve Dublin at one end is why two motorways were thought necessary to serve Limerick and Cork where one would not only have done the job but also linked Limerick to Cork eliminating the need for the M20

marno21

Can we give over with the "only Dublin" stuff. Dublin isn't getting funding at the minute either. The only major roads projects under construction are in Galway and Wexford.

FG are constantly going on about the booming economy. If that's the case then a return to capital spending should be on the cards. **** all being spent on capex at the minuye

road_high

Cookiemunster wrote: »

As much as I dislike defending FF, they had the scheme in front of ABP when they were in office. It was FG who killed it. FF built the motorway network we have. The plan all along was to connect the other cities to Dublin and then to each other and without the crash it would probably be complete by now.

Agree. FG are penny rich and pound foolish- their main obsession appears to be balance the books, they've spent very little on major infrastructure despite the amazing "recovery" they supposedly are overseeing. Projects like the N20 aren't just nice ideas, they're crucial economic and safety additions..

MayoSalmon

marno21 wrote:

Can we give over with the "only Dublin" stuff. Dublin isn't getting funding at the minute either. The only major roads projects under construction are in Galway and Wexford.

Exactly...If a motorway was able to be built from Clare to Tuam then Dublin has nothing to do with it.

boardsuser1

marno21 wrote: »

Can we give over with the "only Dublin" stuff. Dublin isn't getting funding at the minute either. The only major roads projects under construction are in Galway and Wexford.

FG are constantly going on about the booming economy. If that's the case then a return to capital spending should be on the cards. **** all being spent on capex at the minuye

I'll make this one point and i'll go back to the thread topic.

Once the Bus Eireann strike spreads to Dublin (Dublin Bus) then you'll see action once the Dubs are stranded, anyone recall the Luas strike no????

Now back to topic;

Today on RedFM, Neil Prendeville spoke with Cllr Kenneth O'Flynn on the issue of the M20, Simon Coveney is saying that it is needed, he is doing what he can etc etc, usual political waffle.

Anyway, O'Flynn said that Coveney in Cork is Mighty Mouse, in Dublin he is Mickey Mouse.

He must be afraid to air his views openly in Cabinet as he doesn't appear to have the public backing of Michael Noonan, which if he did,i think the project would have been built since Fine Gael first took office in 2011 in that case.

Am i missing something in relation to Noonan here? being from Limerick and that?

I can't see the M20 being anything but positive just like the M8 was in Cork.

road_high

KC161 wrote: »

I'll make this one point and i'll go back to the thread topic.

Once the Bus Eireann strike spreads to Dublin (Dublin Bus) then you'll see action once the Dubs are stranded, anyone recall the Luas strike no????

Now back to topic;

Today on RedFM, Neil Prendeville spoke with Cllr Kenneth O'Flynn on the issue of the M20, Simon Coveney is saying that it is needed, he is doing what he can etc etc, usual political waffle.

Anyway, O'Flynn said that Coveney in Cork is Mighty Mouse, in Dublin he is Mickey Mouse.

He must be afraid to air his views openly in Cabinet as he doesn't appear to have the public backing of Michael Noonan, which if he did,i think the project would have been built since Fine Gael first took office in 2011 in that case.

Am i missing something in relation to Noonan here? being from Limerick and that?

I can't see the M20 being anything but positive just like the M8 was in Cork.

Reckon limerick fear losing regional services to Cork potentially as it weakens the logic of gold plated services to 2 cities in Munster one hour apart...just a theory of course

boardsuser1

road_high wrote: »

Reckon limerick fear losing regional services to Cork potentially as it weakens the logic of gold plated services to 2 cities in Munster one hour apart...just a theory of course

That is why the thread is here, for debates like that. As someone who was in the HGV/passenger transport sector it would be a godsend

pigtown

KC161 wrote: »

I can't see the M20 being anything but positive just like the M8 was in Cork.

Would you not like to be sure about this though? Perhaps it won't be universally positive and companies may have to adjust their business models in order to compete in a new market reality. Shouldn't they be given a heads up?

road_high wrote: »

Reckon limerick fear losing regional services to Cork potentially as it weakens the logic of gold plated services to 2 cities in Munster one hour apart...just a theory of course

What type of gold plated services?

Vanquished

Works on the Annabella roundabout upgrade in Mallow are starting on April 10th.

rounders

Vanquished wrote: »

Works on the Annabella roundabout upgrade in Mallow are starting on April 10th.

Do you have anything link to more info on this? All i could find was a article on C103 from a few weeks back