M20 - Cork to Limerick [preferred route chosen; in design - phase 3]

irishfeen

jank wrote: »

Well, the economic situation is improving. Hopefully the government will implement some sort of multi annual infrastructure strategy much like the ill timed transport 21 which would have funds set aside for this. The election is coming up and I would not be surprised to see something similar appear.

You see they can't without borrowing money because as a country we are still running a budget deficit.. EU finance ministers/ECB will decide whether Ireland is allowed break the new strict borrowing arrangements for stuff like this - if we had say a budget surplus it would be much easier to get approval.

Cookiemunster

irishfeen wrote: »

You see they can't without borrowing money because as a country we are still running a budget deficit.. EU finance ministers/ECB will decide whether Ireland is allowed break the new strict borrowing arrangements for stuff like this - if we had say a budget surplus it would be much easier to get approval.

The thing is, there is no reason for them not to restart planning. It would take 4-5 years and would only cost a few million a year. As it is it'll be at least 2025 before we get anywhere near construction. I'll never understand Varadkers decision to cancel the original planning when it was already before ABP which, wasted the millions that had already been spent (and will have to be spent again). Just because you have permission doesn't mean you have to build it straight away.

irishfeen

Cookiemunster wrote: »

The thing is, there is no reason for them not to restart planning. It would take 4-5 years and would only cost a few million a year. As it is it'll be at least 2025 before we get anywhere near construction. I'll never understand Varadkers decision to cancel the original planning when it was already before ABP which, wasted the millions that had already been spent (and will have to be spent again). Just because you have permission doesn't mean you have to build it straight away.

I do agree that's it's strange with regards planning but the reason it's not actually being build is because of our borrowing restrictions.

The local Fine Gael TD Tom Barry here in Mallow is taking a lot of abuse over this decision from local councillors - with an election just over the horizon he may be in trouble .. Last fine round he ran heavily on the Sugar Factory and the M20 - on both counts he has completely failed.

jgbyr

All the politians around the Cork /Limerick border stay very quiet on the matter. Suppose when an election comes around they'll promise to raise the subject.

Markcheese

Cookiemunster wrote: »

The thing is, there is no reason for them not to restart planning. It would take 4-5 years and would only cost a few million a year. As it is it'll be at least 2025 before we get anywhere near construction. I'll never understand Varadkers decision to cancel the original planning when it was already before ABP which, wasted the millions that had already been spent (and will have to be spent again). Just because you have permission doesn't mean you have to build it straight away.

Wasn't a lot of it due to not having the the money for the compulsory planning orders ?
To be fair that road was never gonna be built during the bust - local Tds or no -

Vanquished

Markcheese wrote: »

Wasn't a lot of it due to not having the the money for the compulsory planning orders ?
To be fair that road was never gonna be built during the bust - local Tds or no -

That is indeed true but there's no reason whatsoever why it cannot be put through the planning process to ensure that it's ready to go in a more favourable funding environment.

mikeym

This must be bad news for regular users of the N20.

The N20 is a joke of a road.

marno21

What will end up happening is planning will start when there's funding available and by the time planning is finished the country will be in a heap again.

jank

Well, at least the M17/18 is being done. In a couple of years, one will have a nice motorway/dual carriage way from Tuam to Raheen and then the glaringly obvious lack of a proper inter city link onwards to Cork. I do believe its a priority but I think the price tag of the project is its biggest hindrance.

AugustusMinimus

jank wrote: »

Well, at least the M17/18 is being done. In a couple of years, one will have a nice motorway/dual carriage way from Tuam to Raheen and then the glaringly obvious lack of a proper inter city link onwards to Cork. I do believe its a priority but I think the price tag of the project is its biggest hindrance.

Mallow to Charleville could easily be done on its own with the remaining 2 sections done afterwards.

road_high

irishfeen wrote: »

I do agree that's it's strange with regards planning but the reason it's not actually being build is because of our borrowing restrictions.

The local Fine Gael TD Tom Barry here in Mallow is taking a lot of abuse over this decision from local councillors - with an election just over the horizon he may be in trouble .. Last fine round he ran heavily on the Sugar Factory and the M20 - on both counts he has completely failed.

Whatever about the m20, sugar factory is a non runner. If one is built (and that's very marginal) it'll be in a central tillage like Carlow with good infrastructure. Not a peripheral one like Cork due to transport costs and land quality. Sorry to derail thread 😄

irishfeen

road_high wrote: »

Whatever about the m20, sugar factory is a non runner. If one is built (and that's very marginal) it'll be in a central tillage like Carlow with good infrastructure. Not a peripheral one like Cork due to transport costs and land quality. Sorry to derail thread 😄

Ha Mallow borders the Golden Vale, some of the best land in the county maybe even country... you'll have to pay us a visit sometime

Calina

irishfeen wrote: »

Ha Mallow borders the Golden Vale, some of the best land in the county maybe even country... you'll have to pay us a visit sometime

It's primarily dairy country though and not so much tillage or crop growing by comparison to areas like Carlow Kilkenny.

irishfeen

Calina wrote: »

It's primarily dairy country though and not so much tillage or crop growing by comparison to areas like Carlow Kilkenny.

Yeah a lot of it came from East Cork - (Midleton/Youghal/Whitegate etc.) but there was pockets around N.Cork too..

road_high

irishfeen wrote: »

Ha Mallow borders the Golden Vale, some of the best land in the county maybe even country... you'll have to pay us a visit sometime

Exactly. Dairy country. Not large scale tillage. East cork yes. But not enough to justify a beet factory so Barry is coddin people if he's claiming that's coming to mallow, now or ever

irishfeen

road_high wrote: »

Exactly. Dairy country. Not large scale tillage. East cork yes. But not enough to justify a beet factory so Barry is coddin people if he's claiming that's coming to mallow, now or ever

Well it was a profit making facility when it closed but I agree it would be placed more centrally in the midlands if sugar production returned - It was a devastating loss for Mallow to lose the facility.

road_high

irishfeen wrote: »

Well it was a profit making facility when it closed but I agree it would be placed more centrally in the midlands if sugar production returned - It was a devastating loss for Mallow to lose the facility.

The flipside is that dairy is expanding so I think Dairygold are expanding their facilities in Mallow so the net result will hopefully balance out now. 300 direct jobs plus 1000s others, was criminal to close this industry.
I believe a site is earmarked outside Carlow but you're talking half a billion to build.

Leonard Hofstadter

Absolutely appalling decision. I was tempted to say well I suppose that's what you get for having a ignorant Dub in charge of transport but ffs there's two Cork Ministers (one senior and potential future Taoiseach plus Junior Minister Sherlock, as mentioned) and Limerick has the Ministers for Finance and Education, a Tipperary based Deputy Leader of the Labour Party, so outside of the pale is more than well represented at Cabinet. Why the **** are none of them trying to do anything about this absolute hell hole of a road :mad:? Do they actually not want votes in the Cork and Limerick area next time around or something? The country may still be running a deficit, but redoing the planning can hardly be all that expensive like.

My only hope is by the time the next election comes around they will have 'magically' found money to do something. The mind truly boggles at times to be honest.

Schadenfreudia

captainspeed wrote: »

. I was tempted to say well I suppose that's what you get for having a ignorant Dub in charge of transport

Why were you tempted to say that?

Irish_rat

This won't start until 2030 if we're lucky.

Backwards thinking from the government, as bad as I'll say it FF got the roads down at least abeit it took a while. Ireland wouldn't be recovering as quickly due in part to the excellent motorway network we now have established. It can be taken for granted very quickly.

This is the most critical road project and the last bit of the motorway network required.

irishfeen

I still wouldn't rule out an announcement during Budget 16, it unlikely though as it appears the government have prioritised other areas of expenditure - you have to remember if the government announced funding you would get people ringing in to radio stations in Dublin or Donegal giving out that 1/5 children in poverty and the government builds a road ... Sometimes they can't win either way..

Deedsie

irishfeen wrote: »

I still wouldn't rule out an announcement during Budget 16, it unlikely though as it appears the government have prioritised other areas of expenditure - you have to remember if the government announced funding you would get people ringing in to radio stations in Dublin or Donegal giving out that 1/5 children in poverty and the government builds a road ... Sometimes they can't win either way..

As much as I want this road to happen asap, I have to agree with this. There is a good bit of development going on in Cork City at the moment. Not enough, never enough but still there is investment in the region. The government can't win in some situations. id love them to announce in the budget that, the M20, M7 widening and the A5 scheme were all going ahead in the lifetime of the next government but there are children going hungry, homeless people all over the streets of Dublin. There are other financial pressures unfortunately.

dee2dee

From this weeks Limerick Leader: -

€1bn Cork-Limerick motorway put on backburner
Published on the 15 April 2015

THE CONTINUED failure to build a new motorway from Cork to Limerick is “hugely disappointing” and “a demonstration by the Government that this region is not a priority”, Fianna Fail deputy Niall Collins has said.

The motorway, estimated to cost up to €1bn, has been shelved again after the Minister for Transport Paschal Donohoe refused to allow it to go to the planning stage. Even once there is Governmental approval it could take up to 10 years to build the road.

The 80km motorway project would have had the capacity to cut almost 30 minutes off the journey between Cork and Limerick by bypassing Mallow, Buttevant and Charleville. The Minister has also indicated that funding was not currently available for a €14m standalone bypass around Mallow, which suffers chronic congestion at peak times.

Deputy Collins said the infrastructure is still badly needed as this is “one of the worst main road in the country”, and there have been a number of fatal road accidents on this stretch of roadway in recent years. “A huge amount of people travel between Limerick and Cork on that roadway on a regular basis, and the failure to upgrade it is a barrier to out competitiveness in the region. We’re told the economy is improving, and funds should be found for this over a long-term basis,” he told the Limerick Leader.

Minister of State Sean Sherlock said recently that the upgrading of the main Cork to Limerick road to a motorway is essential for balanced regional development as a counter to Dublin and the east coast, and essential to help both Limerick and Cork to grow. The project had an €850 million price tag when it was shelved in 2011.

Sean O’Neill, of the National Roads Authority, earlier explained that a plan was submitted to An Bord Pleanála in 2010 following public consultation in 2008 and 2009. An oral hearing was held in July 2010, but the plan was withdrawn from An Bord Pleanála in 2011 on the instructions of Leo Varadkar.

“It’s likely to take up to four years to proceed through the design and planning process and get consent to the scheme from An Bord Pleanála as the scheme will need to be reassessed and require a full reassessment of the environmental impact. It will then take at least another four years to tender, procure and construct. If we were told tomorrow to go and build it you are looking at the better part of 10 years,” Mr O’Neill said.

AugustusMinimus

Deedsie wrote: »

As much as I want this road to happen asap, I have to agree with this. There is a good bit of development going on in Cork City at the moment. Not enough, never enough but still there is investment in the region. The government can't win in some situations. id love them to announce in the budget that, the M20, M7 widening and the A5 scheme were all going ahead in the lifetime of the next government but there are children going hungry, homeless people all over the streets of Dublin. There are other financial pressures unfortunately.

There is development in Cork but it is virtually all private.

Cork has turned into the black sheep of Irish cities, lagging at the bottom of public infrastructural money.

Dannyboy83

captainspeed wrote: »

Absolutely appalling decision. I was tempted to say well I suppose that's what you get for having a ignorant Dub in charge of transport but ffs there's two Cork Ministers (one senior and potential future Taoiseach plus Junior Minister Sherlock, as mentioned) and Limerick has the Ministers for Finance and Education, a Tipperary based Deputy Leader of the Labour Party, so outside of the pale is more than well represented at Cabinet. Why the **** are none of them trying to do anything about this absolute hell hole of a road :mad:? Do they actually not want votes in the Cork and Limerick area next time around or something? The country may still be running a deficit, but redoing the planning can hardly be all that expensive like.

My only hope is by the time the next election comes around they will have 'magically' found money to do something. The mind truly boggles at times to be honest.

Cork and South Munster will continue to remain marginalised until the National Planning Framework has been published.

Presumably the National Planning Framework will be launched early during the lifetime of the next government. It would then remain to be seen if it would be funded and implemented as planned. (Predecessors such as the National Spatial Strategy were not)

Ultimately, Cork will have to push for much stronger local government, or we will end up like Cork Airport.

kub

dee2dee wrote: »

From this weeks Limerick Leader: -

€1bn Cork-Limerick motorway put on backburner
Published on the 15 April 2015

THE CONTINUED failure to build a new motorway from Cork to Limerick is “hugely disappointing” and “a demonstration by the Government that this region is not a priority”, Fianna Fail deputy Niall Collins has said.



These bloody politicians sicken me, does the likes of this guy think people are stupid or what, he might want to take a lesson in recent Irish history especially when his party were in Government and the country was awash with money but still did nothing about this road.

Now i know the current crowd are not much better but then with the mess they have had to clean up its little wonder

road_high

That's politics really. And as an opposition TD he's bound to seize on the failure of the government to bring this road forward.

Mc Love

But Niall Collins is one of the most vocal FF politicians going, he often speaks on issues he hasnt the first clue about.

Geniass

Mc Love wrote: »

But Niall Collins is one of the most vocal FF politicians going, he often speaks on issues he hasnt the first clue about.

Even a stopped clock yada yada...

If all the road investment so far has been considered an economic benefit to the country surely this last major motorway would also have a positive CBA.

spacetweek

Geniass wrote: »

If all the road investment so far has been considered an economic benefit to the country surely this last major motorway would also have a positive CBA.

Oh it does, I'm pretty sure the CBA was calculated back in the day.