M20 - Cork to Limerick [preferred route chosen; in design - phase 3]

tonye

Does anyone have a map or image of the proposed new route?

pigtown

Thanks for engaging Aontachoir but I don't agree with your rebuttals

Aontachtoir wrote: »

Pigtown, you make excellent points, especially the fact that Irish planning has been lazily allowing horizontal sprawl in recent decades. This is a trend that must be reversed going forward. However, this does not take away from the necessity of building the M20. While horizontal sprawl can be controlled through stronger planning laws, the state cannot legislate away bad roads, fatal collisions, and the inevitable loss of productivity and trade which arise from low-quality infrastructure. For that reason alone, the M20 must be built.

Reversing Ireland's sprawl can only be achieved by densifying our cities. This means fewer semi-d housing estates in the suburbs and more city centre and inner suburb houses and apartments. New motorways have always led to new housing estates close to the junctions. You say the M20 must be built because of the bad roads and fatal collisions, I say the bad sections must be upgraded but that doesn't automatically mean a motorway.

Aontachtoir wrote: »

Separately, building the M20 will not affect the development strategies of either cities. Cork can easily continue to expand the N25 corridor, and it looks as though the upgrade of the remainder of the N25 to Midleton will be in the Capital Plan. At the very least, it's been reactivated by TII. If the North Ring Road as far as the M8 is bundled into the M20, the N25 corridor will suddenly become even more attractive for businesses due to its easy access to both the M8 and the M20. Limerick's push to grow its north is not negatively affected in any material way by the M20, and, in fact, is likely to be accelerated by the increase in commerce which flows inevitably from better inter-urban connection.

Of course it will affect the future development of Cork and Limerick. I'm very confident that every single motorway in Ireland has drawn development from other areas of the city. It's inevitable that businesses will want to take advantage of the improved access and cheaper land. In this context any developers that are considering investing in Cork, and who the city council would prefer to locate on the rail line to Midleton, will now of course look to the new opportunities opened on the north side of Cork, jeopardizing the viability of the rail line and all of the plans that rely on this line becoming denser.

It's the same for Limerick and the north ring road. There is only so much money to be invested and if a developer was considering building 200 homes on the northside where the council would like to grow the population he would be mad not to reconsider and attempt to build in Raheen or Patrickswell instead.

Aontachtoir wrote: »

Finally, while you note that nobody is going to buy a house in Castletroy to commute to Mahon, I don't really think is what the councils are saying. A high-quality motorway linking Cork to Limerick would allow Limerick to tap into the labour pool of north County Cork and even Cork's northern suburbs. Similarly, it would allow Cork access to workers most of the way to Croom. An 80 km, 40-minute commute on a motorway isn't the worst - it used to take me nearly 30 minutes to drive the 10 km home from Wilton when I worked there. And on a motorway, you wouldn't have to worry about getting caught behind a tractor just as you enter the Ballybeg bends, or having to wait for an endless stream of cows to cross the road outside of Charleville.

This all comes back to density and how a city grows. Yes it would be possible to live in Charleville or north Cork and drive to the Raheen industrial estate, or live in Croom and work in Apple, but this entirely goes against what the government with its new national development plan and the ESRI with their report on the regions advocate. Those people should be living and working in the cities so that they become bigger and denser and more attractive places for people.

Aontachtoir wrote: »

The M20 is a badly-needed piece of infrastructure. Better public transport in Cork and Limerick is also sorely required, but first things must come first. The M20 must be built ASAP for the benefit of Cork and Limerick, all of Munster, and Ireland as a whole.

You agree that better public transport is required, and spending even half if the budget on public transport would be phenomenal, but why should the road be built first? Why not improve the cities and then link them when they are vibrant attractive places to live and work?

Cookiemunster

tonye wrote: »

Does anyone have a map or image of the proposed new route?

There is no route yet. They may very well decide to use the original plan, but nothing has been decided yet.

JCX BXC

Mc Love wrote: »

Shannon would need a bit of development in order to accommodate some of their bigger jets. But there'd definitely be a market there.

Not to go too far off topic, however Shannon can actually fully accommodate A380's even down to airbridges.

Here's a photo of an A380 at an airbridge in Shannon:


However, I don't think either airport will be too blatantly affected by the motorway. The big wins will be the increase in business links between the two cities. Shannon freezone will be accessible by motorway from Dublin, Cork, Limerick and Galway making it ideal for investment, and similar goes for industrial estates in Limerick, Cork and Galway, all of which will be interacessible.

Aontachtoir

Pigtown, thanks for your response. It seems we're disagreeing over how much the motorway affects development.

Firstly, to address your point about "reversing sprawl". I don't think we should be investing time and energy in reversing sprawl, as I have yet to see an example of how previously built-up areas can be returned to farmland. Nor do I see a big enough benefit to make it worthwhile. Our efforts should be on limiting sprawl. You note that housing developments often spring up close to motorways. This does not happen by magic, and the motorway does not dictate it. This happens because council planners or ABP give developers permission to build housing estates in the middle of nowhere. The State has full control over the planning process. Sprawl is not because of better infrastructure - sprawl is because of poor planning.

You ask why Cork and Limerick should not continue to rely on the N20 link, with unspecified, non-motorway standard (presumably) upgrades. I would ask whether the cost and time delays involved in identifying all the sites which will and will not be upgraded, in addition to the benefits such limited upgrades would be expected to bring, would sufficiently outweigh the enormous benefits of building an inter-urban motorway and finally connecting Ireland's second and third largest cities. I think that would be very unlikely, and a full motorway upgrade would need to be built anyway.

As regards your points about developers changing where they want to build based on the motorway, the councils are hardly powerless. They control who gets to build where. If they really do not want people building close to the motorway, the land can be appropriately restricted from development. Furthermore, trade and investment is not a zero-sum game. Increased connectivity and trade creates gains for both partners, and strengthens the economies of both Cork and Limerick.

Lastly, and most importantly, regarding the National Development Plan: the most critical issue facing Ireland's development is not sprawl, but rather our economy's unhealthy imbalance, with the bulk of jobs and investment going into Dublin. The government has acknowledged that the country needs to be rebalanced, and the best way to do that is to create a Cork-Limerick-Galway axis with enough heft to challenge Dublin for investment. When small countries came together to form the EU, we became the largest and most powerful trade bloc in the world. If we adequately link the (smaller) economies of Cork, Limerick, and Galway, it will go a long way towards rebalancing the nation and ensuring a sustainable future. Think of it - in 2025, it may be possible for goods to flow freely from Ringaskiddy port as far as Connemara without ever leaving the motorway.

There's no need to wait until Cork and Limerick are "vibrant, attractive" places. I've lived in both, and they already are. Let's just do the sensible thing and build the M20.

pigtown

Aontachtoir wrote: »

Pigtown, thanks for your response. It seems we're disagreeing over how much the motorway affects development.

Firstly, to address your point about "reversing sprawl". I don't think we should be investing time and energy in reversing sprawl, as I have yet to see an example of how previously built-up areas can be returned to farmland. Nor do I see a big enough benefit to make it worthwhile. Our efforts should be on limiting sprawl. You note that housing developments often spring up close to motorways. This does not happen by magic, and the motorway does not dictate it. This happens because council planners or ABP give developers permission to build housing estates in the middle of nowhere. The State has full control over the planning process. Sprawl is not because of better infrastructure - sprawl is because of poor planning.

Yeah, reversing was the wrong word, preventing further sprawl was what I should have said.

Aontachtoir wrote: »

You ask why Cork and Limerick should not continue to rely on the N20 link, with unspecified, non-motorway standard (presumably) upgrades. I would ask whether the cost and time delays involved in identifying all the sites which will and will not be upgraded, in addition to the benefits such limited upgrades would be expected to bring, would sufficiently outweigh the enormous benefits of building an inter-urban motorway and finally connecting Ireland's second and third largest cities. I think that would be very unlikely, and a full motorway upgrade would need to be built anyway.

When you consider that this motorway is going to shape how the south western region develops for the next fifty years then I would absolutely advocate for a delay in building it while all of its implications are explored. It can't exactly be removed if we find that it was a mistake to build it.

Aontachtoir wrote: »

As regards your points about developers changing where they want to build based on the motorway, the councils are hardly powerless. They control who gets to build where. If they really do not want people building close to the motorway, the land can be appropriately restricted from development. Furthermore, trade and investment is not a zero-sum game. Increased connectivity and trade creates gains for both partners, and strengthens the economies of both Cork and Limerick.

In an ideal world planning would prevent the negative effects of motorway development but Ireland's planning system isn't robust enough to withstand the political and public pressure that is put on it. All development plans have to be voted through by councillors and landowners along the route will be lobbying for rezoning etc.

Your claim about increased connectivity is certainly logical but without concrete figures it's all just speculation. I would much rather decisions with such far reaching consequences were taken on a more informed basis.

Aontachtoir wrote: »

Lastly, and most importantly, regarding the National Development Plan: the most critical issue facing Ireland's development is not sprawl, but rather our economy's unhealthy imbalance, with the bulk of jobs and investment going into Dublin. The government has acknowledged that the country needs to be rebalanced, and the best way to do that is to create a Cork-Limerick-Galway axis with enough heft to challenge Dublin for investment. When small countries came together to form the EU, we became the largest and most powerful trade bloc in the world. If we adequately link the (smaller) economies of Cork, Limerick, and Galway, it will go a long way towards rebalancing the nation and ensuring a sustainable future. Think of it - in 2025, it may be possible for goods to flow freely from Ringaskiddy port as far as Connemara without ever leaving the motorway.

Yes, the future development of this country should have much more focus on the four cities outside of Dublin and the connectivity between them is an important aspect of this. I guess we differ on the best way to achieve this. I favour the ESRI's approach of building up the cities individually first and looking at their connectivity second.

Aontachtoir wrote: »

There's no need to wait until Cork and Limerick are "vibrant, attractive" places. I've lived in both, and they already are. Let's just do the sensible thing and build the M20.

While they are certainly nice cities, they struggle when compared to other European cities which will be competing for the same investment and workers. Today, companies are hugely influenced by where they believe workers will like to live when making decisions about locating new offices. Cork, Limerick, and Galway are all car dominated and inadequate when you look at public transport. Their accommodation options are limited, and Limerick in particular struggles in terms of city centre shopping.
To me, the sensible thing is to focus on the cities before you do anything else.

AugustusMinimus

pigtown wrote: »

When you consider that this motorway is going to shape how the south western region develops for the next fifty years then I would absolutely advocate for a delay in building it while all of its implications are explored. It can't exactly be removed if we find that it was a mistake to build it.

Those that die on the N20 during this delay cannot exactly be reanimated after it is decided to again, build the M20.

Pigtown, do you believe the M17/M18 should not have been built?

pigtown

Of course those safety measures on the N20 need to be looked at. I'm not denying that the road needs serious remedial measures. But motorway is not the only option here, especially if it's going to change (in my opinion negatively) how Cork and Limerick should develop in the future.

I believe building the M18 and 17 before the traffic problems that plague Galway were addressed was a mistake. I know there were external factors such as funding and the recession and planning etc., but the motorway has done nothing to alleviate congestion in Galway and I don't believe it has made it a more attractive city to live in.

I'm not anti roads, and I often take the slightly longer route home just so I can stay on the motorway for a few minutes more. I'm for good sustainable planning with a focus on cities and the opportunities they offer.

AugustusMinimus

My view is that irrespective of any public transport improvements in future, this route needs to be upgraded to Motorway.

The days of dualling N roads are gone. They are dangerous, allowing slow moving vehicles and cyclists to mix with fast moving traffic. They also offer no alternative route in case of accident.

Current AADT figures clearly support the need for this road to be built.

You note that it may cause adverse developments. The M8 coming out of Cork has been there now for 10 years. Do you think it has caused adverse developments?

Water John

I think Tonye, some body wrote, in the last week, that it would be to the west of the present road.

AugustusMinimus

Water John wrote: »

I think Tonye, some body wrote, in the last week, that it would be to the west of the present road.

The previous design was to run to the east of both Mallow and Charleville anyways.

Isambard

marno21 wrote: »

This is very true - no plans for the N25 between Cork and Waterford though. M28 is as said and the N24 looks to be going ahead in some way from Limerick Junction to Waterford.

there's your Cork to Waterford right there...M8 to Cahir , improved N24 to Waterford. I got that way anyway (as I'm in North Cork)

Isambard

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

The previous design was to run to the east of both Mallow and Charleville anyways.

the problem I see about it running east of mallow is that it would be oh so close to the M8. Were it to be west of Mallow (it would suit me better and) serve a wider corridor.

jgbyr

Previous plan was to run West of the existing N20 & I believe Leo Varadker indicated recently that this is the preferred route.

D Trent

Isambard wrote: »

the problem I see about it running east of mallow is that it would be oh so close to the M8. Were it to be west of Mallow (it would suit me better and) serve a wider corridor.

For cost reasons it should run west of Mallow as you wouldn't have to cross both N72 and N73

AugustusMinimus

Isambard wrote: »

the problem I see about it running east of mallow is that it would be oh so close to the M8. Were it to be west of Mallow (it would suit me better and) serve a wider corridor.

Any Mallow link road (N72/N73 bypass) will need to factor this heavily into the build.

AugustusMinimus

jgbyr wrote: »

Previous plan was to run West of the existing N20 & I believe Leo Varadker indicated recently that this is the preferred route.

It wasn’t. The route was definitely to go east of Mallow.

marno21

Route was to diverge from N21 west of current junction, remain west until north end of Croom bypass and run along the route of the Croom bypass. South of Croom it would stay west of the N20 until just north of Buttevant where it would cross and run east of the existing N20. A link Road would be provided north of Mallow to a Mallow superjunction with the N72/N73 near Olivers Cross/Mallow GAA. It would remain east of the N20 until the junction for Burnfort where it would be an online upgrade south of there

Reputable Rog

East of Mallow and West of Charleville I thought. I used to have a cd rom of the route back in the day, wish I'd kept it.
Going west of Mallow would be difficult due to the terrain and since a lot of the route out of Blarney is on line it would mean crossing the railway, there's also a huge drop in levels down towards Annaleentha and Mourneabbey, significant archeology around Ballyclough as well.

Isambard

Reputable Rog wrote: »

East of Mallow and West of Charleville I thought. I used to have a cd rom of the route back in the day, wish I'd kept it.
Going west of Mallow would be difficult due to the terrain and since a lot of the route out of Blarney is on line it would mean crossing the railway, there's also a huge drop in levels down towards Annaleentha and Mourneabbey, significant archeology around Ballyclough as well.

It would have to cross the railway south of Rathduff anyway as I recall the plan, as the N20 does currently. To go to the west of Mallow it would have to cross it again but is this a major problem? The country west of Mallow doesn't seem to me to be much different form that to the east. There's propbably as much archaeology east of Mallow as shown by the road improvements to Doneraile which turned up quite a few things.

corinthion

marno21 wrote: »

Route was to diverge from N21 west of current junction, remain west until north end of Croom bypass and run along the route of the Croom bypass. South of Croom it would stay west of the N20 until just north of Buttevant where it would cross and run east of the existing N20. A link Road would be provided north of Mallow to a Mallow superjunction with the N72/N73 near Olivers Cross/Mallow GAA. It would remain east of the N20 until the junction for Burnfort where it would be an online upgrade south of there

do you have a map with this route marked out that you could put up please ?

pigtown

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

My view is that irrespective of any public transport improvements in future, this route needs to be upgraded to Motorway.

The days of dualling N roads are gone. They are dangerous, allowing slow moving vehicles and cyclists to mix with fast moving traffic. They also offer no alternative route in case of accident.

Current AADT figures clearly support the need for this road to be built.

You note that it may cause adverse developments. The M8 coming out of Cork has been there now for 10 years. Do you think it has caused adverse developments?

Well there has been a long and complicated saga in trying to build a massive amount of homes on the grounds of Glanmire house which I think will go ahead in the near future. The M8 isn't the only culprit in this though.

If you look at the Sallybrook area on satellite you can clearly see how it has expanded northwards towards the motorway junction instead of the more sustainable south towards Glanmire and Cork city. Further north the village of Rathcormac had an explosion in house building and subsequent population which is directly related to the new road.

The design of this part of the M8 though has few junctions and a toll so potential development has been stymied somewhat.

Another example of how development gravitates towards motorways and their junctions is service stations. In Fermoy the Texaco in the south and Amber in the north are both drawing investment and customers from the town centre towards the respective junctions. This is replicated across the motorway network.

How would people feel about a toll on the M20?

Isambard

I don't think it's just the motorway that causes that sort of development and I think the Sallybrook and Rathcormac developments predate the M8 anyway. Mallow is a bit of a ghost town as it is, I don't think the M20 could make it much worse. What's the effect on Mitchelstown?

Frostybrew

pigtown wrote: »

Well there has been a long and complicated saga in trying to build a massive amount of homes on the grounds of Glanmire house which I think will go ahead in the near future. The M8 isn't the only culprit in this though.

If you look at the Sallybrook area on satellite you can clearly see how it has expanded northwards towards the motorway junction instead of the more sustainable south towards Glanmire and Cork city. Further north the village of Rathcormac had an explosion in house building and subsequent population which is directly related to the new road.

The design of this part of the M8 though has few junctions and a toll so potential development has been stymied somewhat.

Another example of how development gravitates towards motorways and their junctions is service stations. In Fermoy the Texaco in the south and Amber in the north are both drawing investment and customers from the town centre towards the respective junctions. This is replicated across the motorway network.

How would people feel about a toll on the M20?

The growth in Sallybrook was co-ordinated though. In that the lands were zoned for residential in conjunction with the development of the Glanmire By-pass. It was not a case of development following a motorway, but a planned development of both.

Glanmire has been zoned for extensive residential development since the early 70's, decades before the M8 existed. Indeed most of the Sallybrook development took place before the extension of the Glanmire by-pass to Watergrasshill in 2003 and the M8 designation in 2009. As a matter of fact Sallybrook has a much lower level of residential development than other parts of Glanmire. The main residential developments are in Riverstown which is further from the junction than Sallybrook.

In essence, if you plan residential and other types of development to compliment development of transport solutions, a positive and sustainable outcome is possible.

You are correct about Rathcormac.

AugustusMinimus

pigtown wrote: »

Well there has been a long and complicated saga in trying to build a massive amount of homes on the grounds of Glanmire house which I think will go ahead in the near future. The M8 isn't the only culprit in this though.

If you look at the Sallybrook area on satellite you can clearly see how it has expanded northwards towards the motorway junction instead of the more sustainable south towards Glanmire and Cork city. Further north the village of Rathcormac had an explosion in house building and subsequent population which is directly related to the new road.

The design of this part of the M8 though has few junctions and a toll so potential development has been stymied somewhat.

Another example of how development gravitates towards motorways and their junctions is service stations. In Fermoy the Texaco in the south and Amber in the north are both drawing investment and customers from the town centre towards the respective junctions. This is replicated across the motorway network.

How would people feel about a toll on the M20?

Some valid points. However I can’t see how an upgraded N20 would avoid these issues where an M20 would cause them.

As Isambard has said, most of those Sallybrook developments predate the M8. If anything the M8 has effectively blocked Sallybrook from moving any further north than where it is at present.

pigtown

This discussion would be much easier to have in person:)

Isambard wrote: »

I don't think it's just the motorway that causes that sort of development and I think the Sallybrook and Rathcormac developments predate the M8 anyway. Mallow is a bit of a ghost town as it is, I don't think the M20 could make it much worse. What's the effect on Mitchelstown?

Sorry, I'm not from Cork so my knowledge of it is a bit patchy. But the type of development that has taken place in these villages is exactly what we can expect from motorway, and therefore car, based planning.
All I know about Mitchelstown is I drive past it everyday and have never even considered venturing into the place.

Frostybrew wrote: »

The growth in Sallybrook was co-ordinated though. In that the lands were zoned for residential in conjunction with the development of the Glanmire By-pass. It was not a case of development following a motorway, but a planned development of both.

Glanmire has been zoned for extensive residential development since the early 70's, decades before the M8 existed. Indeed most of the Sallybrook development took place before the extension of the Glanmire by-pass to Watergrasshill in 2003 and the M8 designation in 2009. As a matter of fact Sallybrook has a much lower level of residential development than other parts of Glanmire. The main residential developments are in Riverstown which is further from the junction than Sallybrook.

In essence, if you plan residential and other types of development to compliment development of transport solutions, a positive and sustainable outcome is possible.

You are correct about Rathcormac.

Perhaps I'm picking you up wrong but Glanmire/Sallybrook is definitely not a positive and sustainable outcome.

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Some valid points. However I can’t see how an upgraded N20 would avoid these issues where an M20 would cause them.

As Isambard has said, most of those Sallybrook developments predate the M8. If anything the M8 has effectively blocked Sallybrook from moving any further north than where it is at present.

Again, I got my development sequencing wrong but you can be sure that the housing was built with knowledge of the likely construction of the new motorway.

Sure, an upgraded N20 would have these issues in part but not to the same extent as a full motorway. And an upgrade of the N20 is obviously required, it's a trade off I guess, limited development for better road safety.

Reputable Rog

The M20 would be great for Mallow,getting the trucks out of the town would bring back a lot life to the town.
It could conceivably experience a huge population boom as well, halfway effectively from Cork and Limerick with lower house prices than both.

boardsuser1

Reputable Rog wrote: »

The M20 would be great for Mallow,getting the trucks out of the town would bring back a lot life to the town.
It could conceivably experience a huge population boom as well, halfway effectively from Cork and Limerick with lower house prices than both.

Hey hey are you trying to put me out of a job

Only kidding

You are on the ball, Mallow is crazy when to comes to HGV traffic.

From the Annabella Roundabout out to the Racecourse in the West there would be little room for development, as the land just before that is prone to flooding in heavy rain.

To the east is the Town itself

Beyond the Hospital there would be some space for developments.

Bucket loads of space along the N72 though. from Mallow GAA club to Mitchelstown.

Frostybrew

pigtown wrote: »

This discussion would be much easier to have in person:)



Sorry, I'm not from Cork so my knowledge of it is a bit patchy. But the type of development that has taken place in these villages is exactly what we can expect from motorway, and therefore car, based planning.
All I know about Mitchelstown is I drive past it everyday and have never even considered venturing into the place.



Perhaps I'm picking you up wrong but Glanmire/Sallybrook is definitely not a positive and sustainable outcome.



Again, I got my development sequencing wrong but you can be sure that the housing was built with knowledge of the likely construction of the new motorway.

Again, the motorway only came into existence in 2009. The section around Glanmire was opened in 1992 as a dual carriageway bypass which ended at the northern end of the town. Most development in Glanmire is a result of it's proximity to Cork and Little Island.

Actually from an Irish context it is a well executed development. The residential element works very well with the wooded nature of the valley, which has been very well preserved. Commuting times are still very reasonable to major employment locations such as Little island, the City and Carrigtohill.

Whatever problems exist in the area are a result of a failure to implement plans and not a failure of planning, e.g. lack of policing, cycle facilities, public transport, and development of road links.

If you're looking for examples of unsustainable planning I suggest you take a look at Galway or Dublin.

marno21

Isambard wrote: »

there's your Cork to Waterford right there...M8 to Cahir , improved N24 to Waterford. I got that way anyway (as I'm in North Cork)

The upgraded N24 from Cahir to Waterford may be of use for Cork-Waterford traffic, but the existing N25 needs dualling from Midleton-Youghal and around Dungarvan.

The total mess that is N9/N24/N25 also means it would be under pressure if all Cork traffic had to navigate the junction

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

It wasn’t. The route was definitely to go east of Mallow.

Yes, east of Mallow with a link road north of Mallow to the roundabout on the bypass. Traffic coming from the N72 west of Mallow would use the old N20 south as far as the Mallow South junction then join there.

Isambard wrote: »

It would have to cross the railway south of Rathduff anyway as I recall the plan, as the N20 does currently. To go to the west of Mallow it would have to cross it again but is this a major problem? The country west of Mallow doesn't seem to me to be much different form that to the east. There's propbably as much archaeology east of Mallow as shown by the road improvements to Doneraile which turned up quite a few things.

It will cross the railway on the existing N20 bridge or close to it near Rathduff, the existing bridge may need to be widened. As you say, terrain is severely challenging west of Mallow.

corinthion wrote: »

do you have a map with this route marked out that you could put up please ?

I'll attach in the next post.

Frostybrew wrote: »

The growth in Sallybrook was co-ordinated though. In that the lands were zoned for residential in conjunction with the development of the Glanmire By-pass. It was not a case of development following a motorway, but a planned development of both.

Glanmire has been zoned for extensive residential development since the early 70's, decades before the M8 existed. Indeed most of the Sallybrook development took place before the extension of the Glanmire by-pass to Watergrasshill in 2003 and the M8 designation in 2009. As a matter of fact Sallybrook has a much lower level of residential development than other parts of Glanmire. The main residential developments are in Riverstown which is further from the junction than Sallybrook.

In essence, if you plan residential and other types of development to compliment development of transport solutions, a positive and sustainable outcome is possible.

You are correct about Rathcormac.

If the Glanmire bypass was evidence of facilitating sprawl then it would be festooned with junctions. There is one junction as you say north of Glanmire, and the slip by the old Ibis.

Given that there has been plenty of sprawl in Blarney, Carrigaline, etc without any motorway sprawl can't be used against the M20 given that the M20 will actually only start at Blarney to begin with.