Elite armed squad to tackle gangland crime in Limerick

JonAnderton

Did I say Cork, I meant Limerick/Galway/Waterford/Dublin*

*Delete as appropriate for which ever maes mystory the most believable

Phototoxin

Despite the decrease in gangland violence in the city since the city's criminal gangs came under the intense focus of the Criminal Assets Bureau and ongoing garda investigation, senior officers are taking no chances. A tentative truce between the warring sides was agreed last May, but this deal was greeted with great scepticism by gardai.

lolz sounds like the shield !

metman

Phototoxin it has not yet been confirmed that Farmington's Strike Team, lead by Detective Vic Mackey, are being deployed in Limerick.

Detective Mackey was unavailable for comment.

deadwood

JonAnderton wrote: »

Did I say Cork, I meant Limerick/Galway/Waterford/Dublin*

*Delete as appropriate for which ever maes mystory the most believable

Where does exbootie (what is that an ex-member of Destiny's Child?) live?

metman

I pm'd him, but he has not replied.

Both myself and Jon maintain his username is a reference to the Royal Marines.

Eru

exbootie wrote: »

The Cobra team are an Austrian Police team, please don't compare that to real soldering.

Had to point out that comment before someone goes on the ignore list.

deadwood

Karlitosway1978 wrote: »

The Cobra team are an Austrian Police team, please don't compare that to real soldering.

Those Austrians are crap at wiring motherboards, alright.

deadwood

metman wrote: »

I see the queues at the canteen in Templemore haven't improved!

lordhawhaw

We have been successful at soft power in lebannon, Cyprus and Kosovo.
Why the gung ho in civilian policing? Can they learn anything from the Defence forces?

It was patently clear that Senior Officers had neglected to read the Barr report. They appeared fascinated with US swat tactics but forgot that an Garda Siochana is governed by the European Convention on Human Rights, constitutional right to life and Irish criminal law.

All of which are not on the lists of concern of the US swat and tactical forces.

I can only hope that officers will attempt to minimise to the greatest extent possible, recourse to lethal force? but poor oul silly billy Nacie managed to mention Task Force and Summons Serving in the same sentence at the press conference/ launch. (Well done Nacie, good boy,sit boy, double helping of biscuits and milk for you!!

I think some officers felt that they were ready for an Iranian Embassey style confrontation, but dont appreciate the demarcation between civilian policing and a situation where the Rangers get the nod.

One thing is for sure, none of the officers have ever experienced the adrenalin, and psychological myopia which can obliterate rational judgement. The De Menezes shooting is a classical example of poor judgement occasioned by hyper-stress.[

Eru

lordhawhaw wrote: »

We have been successful at soft power in lebannon, Cyprus and Kosovo.
Why the gung ho in civilian policing? Can they learn anything from the Defence forces?

It was patently clear that Senior Officers had neglected to read the Barr report. They appeared fascinated with US swat tactics but forgot that an Garda Siochana is governed by the European Convention on Human Rights, constitutional right to life and Irish criminal law.

All of which are not on the lists of concern of the US swat and tactical forces.

I can only hope that officers will attempt to minimise to the greatest extent possible, recourse to lethal force? but poor oul silly billy Nacie managed to mention Task Force and Summons Serving in the same sentence at the press conference/ launch. (Well done Nacie, good boy,sit boy, double helping of biscuits and milk for you!!

I think some officers felt that they were ready for an Iranian Embassey style confrontation, but dont appreciate the demarcation between civilian policing and a situation where the Rangers get the nod.

One thing is for sure, none of the officers have ever experienced the adrenalin, and psychological myopia which can obliterate rational judgement. The De Menezes shooting is a classical example of poor judgement occasioned by hyper-stress.[

I really dont understand this post. What are you getting at here?

Your speaking in past tense as if the RSU has just blown up a room full of nuns.

Another point, people speak about the Rangers handling situations but its the ERU that handles hostage situations and armed incidents within the Republic. Ireland doesnt have any allowance for martial law so its impossible for the army to take over control or operations from An Garda Siochana as has been demonstrated over the past 10 years with the ERU carrying out operations and even when the army has been deployed its under the supervision of the civil powers where the Gardai retain control.

Oh and its An Garda Siochana, not the army thats operational in Cyprus but your right, we are doing a great job.

Whats with all the soldiers getting confused lately? Its simple, your soldiers, were police and firemen are firemen. When we go to a fire or medical emergency we NEVER even try to take control from the experts, which is DFB neither are we telling the rangers how to do things in Chad.

Guess its true, the more you know the less you show

JonAnderton

lordhawhaw wrote: »

We have been successful at soft power in lebannon, Cyprus and Kosovo.
Why the gung ho in civilian policing? Can they learn anything from the Defence forces?

It was patently clear that Senior Officers had neglected to read the Barr report. They appeared fascinated with US swat tactics but forgot that an Garda Siochana is governed by the European Convention on Human Rights, constitutional right to life and Irish criminal law.

All of which are not on the lists of concern of the US swat and tactical forces.

I can only hope that officers will attempt to minimise to the greatest extent possible, recourse to lethal force? but poor oul silly billy Nacie managed to mention Task Force and Summons Serving in the same sentence at the press conference/ launch. (Well done Nacie, good boy,sit boy, double helping of biscuits and milk for you!!

I think some officers felt that they were ready for an Iranian Embassey style confrontation, but dont appreciate the demarcation between civilian policing and a situation where the Rangers get the nod.

One thing is for sure, none of the officers have ever experienced the adrenalin, and psychological myopia which can obliterate rational judgement. The De Menezes shooting is a classical example of poor judgement occasioned by hyper-stress.[

Sorry,who are you saying had poor judgement and were hyperstressed?..i hope it wasnt the firearms team.

If so,not only have you displayed an igorance to armed policing in general,but also of the specific incident you feel qualified to reference

Shame that this forum is becomming full of this behaviour.some of us spend more time trying to explain certain FACTS to the igorant then we do enjoying the banter and craic this place was intended to be..shame

dredre

JonAnderton wrote: »

Sorry,who are you saying had poor judgement and were hyperstressed?..i hope it wasnt the firearms team.

If so,not only have you displayed an igorance to armed policing in general,but also of the specific incident you feel qualified to reference

Shame that this forum is becomming full of this behaviour.some of us spend more time trying to explain certain FACTS to the igorant then we do enjoying the banter and craic this place was intended to be..shame

Is the ignorance because the firearms team were not showing poor judgement or hyperstress or because the poster doesn't know if this is the case or not?

lordhawhaw

I am well aware to the Gardai's presence in Cypress.

Karlitosway can you say for certain that the ERU learned lessons from Abbeylara?

A small phone call to professonals would have helped!

5 mins of Siege strategy for Dummies , designed for especially for Gardai, politically promoted beyond any sense of ability.

Also an Garda Siochana need only certify a civil emergency and request the Minister to deploy the Rangers.

The men and women of the defence forcess who have served over a million days of restraint and negotiation and soft power in the worlds hot spots and would be able to teach the Gardai some proper peacekeeping techniques.

I dont like the idea of our own Civilian Police using the H&K mk7 that all.

if a situation calls for the deployment of that sort of fire power the Rangers ought be called in.

surely you will agree with me, Karlitosway.......

JonAnderton

because the poster doesnt know what he's talking about.if he did,he'd know that in the type of operation he referenced,the firearms team,how can i put this without causing offence..acted correctly.if the poster knew what he was referencing,he'd know that

JonAnderton

ok..this is getting ridiculous know..you forgot, in your rush to insult law enforcement officers everywhere,your intention to have soldiers patroling our streets.how many baricade/seiges did 'the wing' resolve last year?

dredre

Fair enough, Jon. I accept that you are likely privy to details that are not available publicly which support this assertion. It is difficult from the outside however to reconcile this with what has made it's way into the public domain regarding this incident.

Speaking more generally, it must be acknowledged that firearms teams along with all other professionals experience moments of poor judgement and hyperstress. I felt that if you were saying that to suggest this was being ignorant then that is incorrect.

On the other hand, the subsequent post here from lordhawhaw is offensive and does nothing to contribute to an informed debate on the issue. Clearly the poster has an axe to grind.

JonAnderton

the effects of incidents on firearms officers has been discussed to no end with myself and a few others being heavy contributers and i agree with you.

However,comments he has made show that he doesn't even posess the facts that are well publicised

I, along with many others on here im sure,am begining to get annoyed at the blatant insults being leveled here.

Witcher

lordhawhaw wrote: »

I am well aware to the Gardai's presence in Cypress.

Karlitosway can you say for certain that the ERU learned lessons from Abbeylara?

A small phone call to professonals would have helped!

5 mins of Siege strategy for Dummies , designed for especially for idiot Gardai, politically promoted beyond any sense of ability.

Also an Garda Siochana need only certify a civil emergency and request the Minister to deploy the Rangers.

The men and women of the defence forcess who have served over a million days of restraint and negotiation and soft power in the worlds hot spots and would be able to teach the Gardai some proper peacekeeping techniques.

I dont like the idea of our own Civilian Police using the H&K mk7 that all.

if a situation calls for the deployment of that sort of fire power the Rangers ought be called in.

surely you will agree with me, Karlitosway.......

First of all its a H&K MP7, and why do you not like them using it, they've

been using the Uzi long enough, afraid of change are we? :rolleyes:

Its a gun...they are an armed response unit who need guns....and they

were given guns...whats the issue?

As far as I can see you read the paper heard about the new MP7's and

said "oh dont like the look o' that, they'll be out to shoot us next"


As for the Abbeylara issue, that's been debated at length here before and it

had a tribunal, I don't think that needs to be resurrected again, it's over at

the end of the day, the man is dead, maybe that could have ended

differently but we'll never know, let him rest in peace

JonAnderton

i'm begining to think that certain posters should have a 'warning:this poster does not base his opinion on any factual evidence and although
Ignorant to the topic,still feels qualified to level judgement' stuck on the top of his post

Fyr.Fytr

Even i find some of the new post to be ridiculous

JonAnderton

Fyr.Fytr wrote: »

Even i find some of the new post to be ridiculous

Lol..i love this guy..lol

Fyr.Fytr

Whoah easy tiger!

Nice compliment though, oh we're just friends

Gavin

It's a fairly safe bet that someone called Lord Haw-Haw is a troll and not to be bothered with.

Fyr.Fytr

Its fun to taunt them, while taking no real notice of them. like teasing animals in the zoo with food, then buggering off lol

lordhawhaw

Ok lads,

Fair enough. I read through the entire thread. Jon we may be on diametrically opposite sides of the fence. So I'm gonna sit my ass back on the fence. I didnt offend any right thinking Gardai though. Mistakes have been made and will be made. As for barricades and sieges, yep totally civilian, for the Gardai. As for other events, I apologise for bringing them up. I'm certainly proud of the gardai but people have pushed for this paramilitarisation for a bit too long.

dredre

lordhawhaw wrote: »

Ok lads,

Fair enough. I read through the entire thread. Jon we may be on diametrically opposite sides of the fence. So I'm gonna sit my ass back on the fence. I didnt offend any right thinking Gardai though. Mistakes have been made and will be made. As for barricades and sieges, yep totally civilian, for the Gardai. As for other events, I apologise for bringing them up. I'm certainly proud of the gardai but people have pushed for this paramilitarisation for a bit too long.

I am not a guard. I do think your post would offend any right thinking guard. References to "idiot Gardai" are uncalled for. You should retract this or be barred.

You should also bear in mind that the Gardai have plenty of experience of "restraint, negotiation and soft power" since 1922. The majority are still unarmed.

Your posts do not help a debate which is important.

There are valid questions and concerns internationally and domestically regarding the use of firearms by police. There is also a large cultural sea-change needed in Ireland (among civilians, guards and military) to accept the increasing use and visibility of firearms by gardai.

I feel that some of the posts from serving officers on this issue are overly defensive and stifle debate. However, inflammatory posts like yours do not encourage a frank discussion.

civdef

i'm begining to think that certain posters should have a 'warning:this poster does not base his opinion on any factual evidence and although Ignorant to the topic,still feels qualified to level judgement' stuck on the top of his post

Something like that is being worked on, the level of credibility exhibited on this forum has taken a nosedive in the last 24 hours thanks to some newish contributors, and it is not planned to have that continue.

djtechnics1210

lordhawhaw wrote: »

I am well aware to the Gardai's presence in Cypress.

Karlitosway can you say for certain that the ERU learned lessons from Abbeylara?

A small phone call to professonals would have helped!

5 mins of Siege strategy for Dummies , designed for especially for Gardai, politically promoted beyond any sense of ability.

Also an Garda Siochana need only certify a civil emergency and request the Minister to deploy the Rangers.

The men and women of the defence forcess who have served over a million days of restraint and negotiation and soft power in the worlds hot spots and would be able to teach the Gardai some proper peacekeeping techniques.

I dont like the idea of our own Civilian Police using the H&K mk7 that all.

if a situation calls for the deployment of that sort of fire power the Rangers ought be called in.

surely you will agree with me, Karlitosway.......

Lord Haw Haw, from your comments i take it that you are not a serving member - if you are then you have yet to meet the b**l breaking training called TACTICAL. every aspect of abbeylara was dragged through with a fine tooth comb and then re-examined again and again by senior officers and third parties, aswell as outside bodies. As a direct result of this a member will not even be considered for a known firearm threat if they have not completed firearm training and tactical training with firearms. The training involves every aspect being repeated over and over and over again until you can do it in your sleep so that you eliminate "red mist" and hyper stress when it is done for real (oh and its taught by professionals trained to best international and european practice) and in case you didnt know it members of the ERU actually go over to other armed intervention units throughout europe and show them there methods of armed intervention (they must be good at what they do if other police forces want to learn from them). ERU are involved in armed confrontations everyday, all go off without a hitch. Im all for good healthy debates but please dont make statements regarding ERU/ARW when you cant support them and clearly know very little about the matter at hand. Something for you to think about
(1) Arw train for warfare/anti terrorist/conflict situations in theaters of war
(2) Eru train solely for armed intervention in hostage/gun situations
............If your being held hostage, who would you rather come through the door???????

exbootie

djtechnics1210 wrote: »

Lord Haw Haw, from your comments i take it that you are not a serving member - if you are then you have yet to meet the b**l breaking training called TACTICAL. every aspect of abbeylara was dragged through with a fine tooth comb and then re-examined again and again by senior officers and third parties, aswell as outside bodies. As a direct result of this a member will not even be considered for a known firearm threat if they have not completed firearm training and tactical training with firearms. The training involves every aspect being repeated over and over and over again until you can do it in your sleep so that you eliminate "red mist" and hyper stress when it is done for real (oh and its taught by professionals trained to best international and european practice) and in case you didnt know it members of the ERU actually go over to other armed intervention units throughout europe and show them there methods of armed intervention (they must be good at what they do if other police forces want to learn from them). ERU are involved in armed confrontations everyday, all go off without a hitch. Im all for good healthy debates but please dont make statements regarding ERU/ARW when you cant support them and clearly know very little about the matter at hand. Something for you to think about
(1) Arw train for warfare/anti terrorist/conflict situations in theaters of war
(2) Eru train solely for armed intervention in hostage/gun situations
............If your being held hostage, who would you rather come through the door???????

Can you name these Euro Police forces you claim the ERU instruct ?

Athy bank raid 91, the ERU opened up on armed raiders with a combat shotgun and uzi's (a weapon total unsuitable for ERUs due to its inaccuracy over 20m, originally designed for Israeli paras for FIBU house clearing), wounding 19 civilians in the st, RTE news said the op was a major success....FACT.

Eru

Fyr.Fytr wrote: »

Its fun to taunt them, while taking no real notice of them. like teasing animals in the zoo with food, then buggering off lol

Your a sick man Fyr, a sick man

And my ignore list is fast overtaking my friend list seeing as I just added our elite mercenary / barrister friend (now thats a barrack room lawyer.