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Gardai may be given new powers to enter your house / car to disable nuisance alarms.

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    #32
    TheNog
    Registered Users Posts: 4,160 ✭✭✭TheNog


    The idea of entering a house or a car to turn off the alarm is laughable tbh. I was practically in tears laughing watching the news. There is no way the Attorney General can pass this through the constitution plus how would we enter the premises or vehicle??

    Once on the premises what are we supposed to do next? Call a locksmith and electrician?? For God's sake we all know how long we have to wait for an electrician to come out. We simply do not have the time to be waiting around for an electrician who is 30-40 minutes late.

    The idea of upgrading the older alarms within the next 2 years is a good idea where external alarms do switch off after a certain time.

    I do however agree to issusing on the spot fines for noise pollution not only to cover alarms but also dogs and house parties. In order of us to do this we would probably have to have the ability to measure the level of decibels. Then again would the decibels be over while being measured outside on the street or from the neighbours house. Many neighbours make the complaint to us but don't want us calling to their door for obvious reasons.

    The whole process surrounding monitored alarm company needs to be seriously over-hauled as in contact between the monitoring companies and the Gardai. There is little communication between the two.


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    #33
    d0gb0y
    Registered Users Posts: 287 ✭✭d0gb0y


    This goes against the constitution and is open to abuse. I wonder has the minister who is involved in this got friends/family involved in the home security business. Better off just not having an alarm now since noone responds to them anymore the only ones who insist on it are home insurers.
    FFS the green party allow shell to rape the natural resources of this country without paying sweet feck all taxes and export the gas abroad even though its against the constitution. The green in the green party stands for green dollars bunch of hypocritcal bastards:mad:


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    #34
    Sir Digby Chicken Caesar
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 23,556 ✭✭✭✭Sir Digby Chicken Caesar


    (we don't use dollars)


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    #35
    javaboy
    Registered Users Posts: 15,094 ✭✭✭✭javaboy


    |-*SxyDubGrrl93*-| wrote: »
    (we don't use dollars)

    Yes but his little joke about the Green in Green Party doesn't work the same with Euro notes. They're all sorts of silly colours like red and blue and even green.


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    #36
    connundrum
    Registered Users Posts: 5,563 ✭✭✭connundrum


    seamus wrote: »
    The solution is very simple - when someone makes a complaint, the Gardai attempt to contact the householder. If they cannot, the Gardai attend to the scene after 30 minutes and knock on the door. If there is no answer, you issue a fine for €2500.

    The Gardai get a list of householder names from land registry, and householders have an obligation to provide contact details and keyholder names to the Gardai, to be entered into the national database.

    That way, nobody's civil liberties are shat on, and people have a bloody good reason to make sure their alarms work properly.

    A good suggestion.

    I do believe that alarm companies should be regulated and that all products should have the 15 - 20 minute automatic turn off mechanism.

    That said, I gladly would have pulled a neighbour's alarm off his wall recently when it rang from 11pm - 7.30am. The only thing stopping me was the distinct lack of a ladder.

    I noted that most news reports on the issue alluded to the fact that we should all have Eircom Phonewatch. Wonder how much they paid for that..


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    #37
    d0gb0y
    Registered Users Posts: 287 ✭✭d0gb0y


    |-*SxyDubGrrl93*-| wrote: »
    (we don't use dollars)

    the 100 euro note is green will that do ye:pac:


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    #38
    hottstuff
    Closed Accounts Posts: 596 ✭✭✭hottstuff


    How many more recruits will be needed to implement this i wonder?
    I laughed when i heard this.

    Regulate the alarm installers , not the customer.


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    #39
    fred funk }{
    Registered Users Posts: 6,827 ✭✭✭fred funk }{


    hottstuff wrote: »
    How many more recruits will be needed to implement this i wonder?
    I laughed when i heard this.

    Regulate the alarm installers , not the customer.

    The security industry is probably the most regulated industry/sector out there. It has been totally reformed in the last few years.

    All alarms should be monitored either by a central station, text or by a voice dialler. Some of those options are cheap enough and it would ensure that no alarm would be ringing for long.

    Your home is your castle and there is no way this proposal will become law, and as others have said it's open to so much abuse.

    What if somebody had a grudge against you and kept throwing a tennis ball at your window when you weren't there and ringing the gardai telling them the alarm keeps ringing, the gardai then break into the house wreck the door/window getting in and then wreck the alarm trying to turn it off, the house holder ends up paying for all the damage.

    It's more sh*te from the Greens, them boys really haven't a clue what they're at.


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    #40
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,349 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    TheNog wrote: »
    I do however agree to issusing on the spot fines for noise pollution not only to cover alarms but also dogs and house parties. In order of us to do this we would probably have to have the ability to measure the level of decibels. Then again would the decibels be over while being measured outside on the street or from the neighbours house. Many neighbours make the complaint to us but don't want us calling to their door for obvious reasons.
    The industry standard for nighttime is for average noise and peak noise at the outside of a first floor window and ground floor window during the day. For the purposes of this act (or any regulatiosn or bye-laws thereunder), a table could be scheduled specifying a noise level at the boundary in addition to the above.
    d0gb0y wrote: »
    This goes against the constitution and is open to abuse. I wonder has the minister who is involved in this got friends/family involved in the home security business. Better off just not having an alarm now since noone responds to them anymore the only ones who insist on it are home insurers.

    FFS the green party allow shell to rape the natural resources of this country without paying sweet feck all taxes and export the gas abroad even though its against the constitution. The green in the green party stands for green dollars bunch of hypocritcal bastards:mad:
    No, I think that was Ray Burke, a FF member.


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    #41
    d0gb0y
    Registered Users Posts: 287 ✭✭d0gb0y


    Victor wrote: »
    No, I think that was Ray Burke, a FF member.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2008/0828/1219873097682.html

    from the times article it says it was Wormley oops I mean Gormley and iirc hes a greener


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    #42
    thebman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,012 ✭✭✭✭thebman


    Zen fascists will control you
    100% natural
    You will jog for the master race
    And always wear the happy face

    Close your eyes, can't happen here
    Big Bro' on white horse is near
    The hippies won't come back you say
    Mellow out or you will pay
    Mellow out or you will pay!

    Now it is 1984
    Knock-knock at your front door
    It's the suede/denim secret police
    They have come for your uncool niece

    Aw the good auld insane green party masquerading as the good guys to remove you rights and force you to behave they way they say or they'll let their squad march into your house and do as they please. I like them already.


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    #43
    cuckoo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,945 ✭✭✭cuckoo


    I'd welcome this - i live in a built up area and there are some alarms that will be ringing for hours on end.

    It should be the stick that forces householders/car owners to use their alarm systems properly, and with some consideration. I've been tempted to go around to some of my neighbours, throw a brick through the front window and set fire to their alarm controls - anything to make the awful noise stop.

    There's so many laws around things like concerts taking place in residential areas having to end by a certain time, but there seems to be nothing done about the day to day annoyance of out of control alarms.


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    #44
    pred racer
    Registered Users Posts: 4,385 ✭✭✭pred racer


    seamus wrote: »
    One step too far. This is the problem when you get as far left-wing as the Green Party. Civil liberties get shat all over.

    Nobody, including the Gardai, should be permitted to enter your home except in circumstances where someone's life is in danger, a criminal needs to be apprehended, or where a warrant has been issued.

    What are the Gardai going to do when they get in there anyway? Keep pressing button until they get the right code? Start disconnecting batteries and wires in the hope that they get them all?

    Ridiculous.

    The solution is very simple - when someone makes a complaint, the Gardai attempt to contact the householder. If they cannot, the Gardai attend to the scene after 30 minutes and knock on the door. If there is no answer, you issue a fine for €2500.

    The Gardai get a list of householder names from land registry, and householders have an obligation to provide contact details and keyholder names to the Gardai, to be entered into the national database.

    That way, nobody's civil liberties are shat on, and people have a bloody good reason to make sure their alarms work properly.

    +1


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    #45
    Ross_Mahon
    Registered Users Posts: 2,283 ✭✭✭Ross_Mahon


    Just get people to get rid of their old crappy alarms.


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    #46
    Karlos_Sparky
    Registered Users Posts: 69 ✭✭Karlos_Sparky


    Right now as we speak there is an alarm going off in my appartment block and it has been going off for the last 36 hours ......... it is the loudest alarm I have heard in my life ...... Bring on this new law before I kill someone


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    #47
    RoosterIllusion
    Closed Accounts Posts: 395 ✭✭RoosterIllusion


    seamus wrote: »
    Nobody, including the Gardai, should be permitted to enter your home except in circumstances where someone's life is in danger, a criminal needs to be apprehended, or where a warrant has been issued.

    What are the Gardai going to do when they get in there anyway? Keep pressing button until they get the right code? Start disconnecting batteries and wires in the hope that they get them all?

    Ridiculous.

    The solution is very simple - when someone makes a complaint, the Gardai attempt to contact the householder. If they cannot, the Gardai attend to the scene after 30 minutes and knock on the door. If there is no answer, you issue a fine for €2500.

    The Gardai get a list of householder names from land registry, and householders have an obligation to provide contact details and keyholder names to the Gardai, to be entered into the national database.

    That way, nobody's civil liberties are shat on, and people have a bloody good reason to make sure their alarms work properly.

    Rubbish. My neighbours alarm went off at 7 am on Friday morning and only ceased to sound a few hours ago. Thats over 40 hours of a high pitched, intrusive sound, day and night. They appear to have left for the weekend so basically we had to put up with it because the guards said they cant do anything in that situation. The power to enter someone's home to silence an alarm or even an animal (neighbours dog barking all the time anyone?) is a very necessary power and I challenge anyone to be forced to listen to a f*cking alarm for 40 hours and not get angry about it. It's torturous.


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    #48
    TheNog
    Registered Users Posts: 4,160 ✭✭✭TheNog


    The power to enter a person's house in order to switch off an alarm or silence a barking dog would be a power too far imo and I'm certain this power would go against the constitution.
    However I do agree with Gormley's suggestion to have all alarms monitored so at least a key holder could be got a hold off to switch off the alarm and check the property with the Gardai. This would put a stop to alarms going off for hours on end.

    The matter of a dog constantly barking, I don;t honestly know what you could do there. Maybe by bringing the owner to court for something similar to breach of the peace but a new law would be needed to cover that.


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    #49
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,112 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    The greens are in the main idiots. That's a given. Luckily they got into power this time in small numbers so people(hopefully) will see that so they die a death this time around before they get real power. This is just the latest in a series of imbecilic ill thought out responses to a problem from politicos in this country from all sides.

    It's unworkable. The guards won't want to do it, the constitution will likely stop it in it's tracks and if it did get in it would be an absolute farce from a practical point of view. Lets add yet another farce to the list.

    Yes we've all had alarms go off and keep going and going and... Yes it's bloody infuriating, but to agree to a law like this, that plays with ones rights to this degree would be as imbecilic as those who suggest it in the first place. That worries more than the greens tbh. "I'm infuriated by (insert whatever here), so lets throw the baby out with the bathwater and not think this through in any way" type thinking is what scares me far more.

    Seamus' ideas are the sensible way to deal with this problem. Though god forbid sense might get in the way.:rolleyes:

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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    #50
    dohda
    Registered Users Posts: 172 ✭✭dohda


    Although I do agree that noisy alarms are annoying I don't see how this could ever work. Are the guards going to keep an eye on your house 24hrs a day while you were on holidays because they broke in your front door and turned off the alarm?

    I can just imagine ringing the isurance company:

    "Hi I need to claim for all contents on my house insurance"
    "No the alarm was not on."
    "No the front door was not locked."
    "Sorry for wasting your time."


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    #51
    WoollyRedHat
    Registered Users Posts: 10,462 ✭✭✭✭WoollyRedHat


    I love the irony in all this. The fact that the alarm, the very thing that is supposed to alert a burgarly may also trigger a break-in afterwards.

    mmmmmmm!

    I'm sick of the Greens tbh, and Fianna Failers... they are all tosspots. And the sad thing is we have about 4 more years of them.


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    #52
    ferdi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,598 ✭✭✭ferdi


    seamus wrote: »
    One step too far. This is the problem when you get as far left-wing as the Green Party. Civil liberties get shat all over.

    Nobody, including the Gardai, should be permitted to enter your home except in circumstances where someone's life is in danger, a criminal needs to be apprehended, or where a warrant has been issued.

    What are the Gardai going to do when they get in there anyway? Keep pressing button until they get the right code? Start disconnecting batteries and wires in the hope that they get them all?

    Ridiculous.

    The solution is very simple - when someone makes a complaint, the Gardai attempt to contact the householder. If they cannot, the Gardai attend to the scene after 30 minutes and knock on the door. If there is no answer, you issue a fine for €2500.

    The Gardai get a list of householder names from land registry, and householders have an obligation to provide contact details and keyholder names to the Gardai, to be entered into the national database.

    That way, nobody's civil liberties are shat on, and people have a bloody good reason to make sure their alarms work properly.

    i'd agree with most of that...but what about the civil liberties of people who dont want to hear an alarm going night and day?

    A hefty fine should be part of it certainly but its just not good enough to leave it going. I'm sitting here and there is an alarm in a nearby house going off for the last 32 hours, its a ****ing outrage. I dont care if the homeowner gets fined, i just want the noise to stop. NOW. Who protects my right to peace in my own home?

    I want that alarm off now. That persons' right to install that type of home security does not come before the right of the hundreds of people in this area at this moment who are suffering this extremely irritating whine.

    Either come up with a method by which the arlam companies can control alarm activations remotely from some garda/army protected nerve centre or give the gardai the right to kick in doors. Either way, throwing our hands in the air and allowing alarms to impact on our lives like this has been tolerated for far too long and it needs to be sorted. Now.:mad:


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    #53
    The_Minister
    Registered Users Posts: 10,255 ✭✭✭✭The_Minister


    Sorry, but why the hell should I pay a giant fine if some little scummer lobs a conker at my window while I've gone to work?

    Alarms are their to protect houses, and yes, sometimes the wind/scummers/birds/burglers will set it off, but that is not nessacerily the homeowners fault.

    When we leave the city we give our neighbours the key and alarm code, because we know and trust them. However, alot of people from the country who have moved here won't know anyone who they can trust with their home.


    Oh, and what the hell do the Gardai do if they discover something illegal in the house while in there? Do they ignore it, or is Gormley trying to abolish warrents?
    And who pays for the damage to the house?

    Aside from one or two possible scenarios, this idea is dumb, especially since we are moving to a situation where alarms turn themselves off.


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    #54
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    There is no way this will ever be a law without a Constitutional ammendment to Art 40.5 People never seem to think these things through. The "alarm" or dog pre-text could be used to allow all sorts of abuses, and before anyone says that is just paranoia I think we should all remember the activities of the Donegal Gardai a few years ago.

    Nobody should ever be allowed to enter your house without a warrant issued in accordance with the law. It is a basic right and it is and shall remain a constitutionally guaranteed one.


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    #55
    ferdi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,598 ✭✭✭ferdi


    The_Minister wrote: »
    Sorry, but why the hell should I pay a giant fine if some little scummer lobs a conker at my window while I've gone to work?

    Alarms are their to protect houses, and yes, sometimes the wind/scummers/birds/burglers will set it off, but that is not nessacerily the homeowners fault.

    When we leave the city we give our neighbours the key and alarm code, because we know and trust them. However, alot of people from the country who have moved here won't know anyone who they can trust with their home.


    Oh, and what the hell do the Gardai do if they discover something illegal in the house while in there? Do they ignore it, or is Gormley trying to abolish warrents?
    And who pays for the damage to the house?

    Aside from one or two possible scenarios, this idea is dumb, especially since we are moving to a situation where alarms turn themselves off.

    Yes. Your family are responsible but many aren't. Its your decision to have an alarm installed, you don't have to have one.

    When a homeowner makes the decision that the safety of their stuff is more important than the peace, quiet and health of their neighbours and then they fail to make proper arrangements (ie: leaving a key & code) then i have no problem with their door being kicked in and the alarm being disabled. Who pays for the damage? They do. Anything illegal going on? well the police have to get a warrent and return but if they are silly enough to leave their heroin and kidnapped sex slave next to the alarm controls, its fair game.

    That said, obviously all this is grossly unconstitutional and thus will never happen.


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    #56
    WoollyRedHat
    Registered Users Posts: 10,462 ✭✭✭✭WoollyRedHat


    Yep. Dunno why he even made the comments.. got the Greens some nice airtime though. Bad publicity is good publicity and all that.


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    #57
    Mikel
    Closed Accounts Posts: 863 ✭✭✭Mikel


    Actually being in Government will be the end of the Greens.
    Hooray!!


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    #58
    Therickmachine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 63 ✭✭Therickmachine


    We have one neighbour with an alarm that rings randomly for 15 bloody years!! Dodgy thing from the 80's or so!!!
    The noise would drive you to desperate measures!

    Soo annoying. Cheapskates won t get a proper one. I d love the Gardai to undo their alarm before I creep in one day and simply cut the wires!! The noise goes on for hours and hours!

    Seriously I don t think the Gardai should be allowed go in but give owners a warning or a fine if it happens to often! Or if 2 or more compalints are recorded insist on them getting a more modern alarm system or getting rid of the old one! Or maybe Gardai have a right to intervene and turn off the alarm after several complaints!
    We didn t have a leg to stand on even though we were complaining all the time about noise pollution. Its a pain in the as* to put up with the noise!

    In fact, you would reckon any criminals in the area would soon quickly work out that there is no one to turn it off after a few hours!
    Of course neighbours couldn t give a sh*t as they are not there to listen to the noise!

    We paid very well for our alarm but it doesn t go off randomly. ITS WORTH THE MONEY!!!!!

    I can t even hear the Eircom ones outside. Though indoors the sound is unbearable, Very cleverly done and contacts the Police as well. Much more clever than some dodgy alarm that rings constantly for hours without nothing being done!

    or maybe they should set alarm standards. That you have to update and get modern efficent ones or else remove them!


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    #59
    Conbro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,026 ✭✭✭Conbro


    And the sad thing is we have about 4 more years of them

    No the sad thing is the party/parties we ask to replace them will be considerably more detramental to the running of this counrty


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    #60
    xOxSinéadxOx
    Registered Users Posts: 2,604 ✭✭✭xOxSinéadxOx


    dohda wrote: »
    Although I do agree that noisy alarms are annoying I don't see how this could ever work. Are the guards going to keep an eye on your house 24hrs a day while you were on holidays because they broke in your front door and turned off the alarm?

    I can just imagine ringing the isurance company:

    "Hi I need to claim for all contents on my house insurance"
    "No the alarm was not on."
    "No the front door was not locked."
    "Sorry for wasting your time."

    they get the locks changed and send you the bill.

    about time in my opinion!


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    #61
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    ferdi wrote: »
    i'd agree with most of that...but what about the civil liberties of people who dont want to hear an alarm going night and day?
    They have the right to go out for half of the day to not listen to it. Living in peace and solitude, isn't a right, it's a privilege.

    In the interests of social order, we do require people to act in a way that causes minimal upset to their neighbours, but a minor and isolated social grievance doesn't justify violating the sanctity of a person's home.

    The issue of house alarms doesn't bother that many people and not for that long. Alarms going off for 40+ hours are not the norm.

    Big fines would be a sufficient deterrant against this, and it doesn't require any screwing with civil liberties, and is probably a far easier bill to draft.


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