Ryanair cabin depressurization on a BRS>GRO flight on 25.8.08

probe

From media reports, it appears that a Ryanair 737 lost cabin pressure somewhere north of Limoges, en route from BRS to GRO. (Most of the?) oxygen masks popped down, but many passengers didn’t know what to do with them or what was happening to the aircraft. The cabin crew apparently couldn’t make announcements to inform passengers because they too were wearing oxygen masks, preventing them from using the public announcement system.

As a frequent flyer on many airlines, this is another example of the appalling way Irish aviation is regulated and managed, especially in terms of communications issues – whether it is flight safety or delays, the content of their websites, or the design and wording of the emails they send when one makes a reservation.

It should be obvious to anyone planning emergency routines that recorded voice announcements must be in use (preferably automatic) as soon as the oxygen mask release mechanism is triggered. The recorded voice announcement should explain firstly what to do – in multiple languages – English, French, German, Spanish + any other local language relevant to the origin or destination of the flight. The “what to do” message should be followed by a general “why this is happening” informational message to put passengers in the picture.

Ryanair is very good spamming passengers with lottery and in-flight sales advertising. Which shows where the company’s priorities lie!

I remember when Jetmagic first started operations, they were operating under Swiss aviation regulations and Swiss International – www.swiss.com – trained the crew. The flight safety announcements were impeccable and logical. After a few months, the Irish aviation regulation bureaucracy got its act into gear and finally issued the company with an Irish operators’ license. The flight safety announcements changed overnight to the garbled rubbish similar to that one hears on Ryanair and Aer Lingus.

While Irish registered airlines operate all over Europe, the ability of cabin crew to speak the local language of the passenger is usually fairly appalling in my experience, particularly when it comes to Irish crew members. If you can’t communicate with your passengers in an emergency, this is a grossly negligent way to run an airline. The ultimate responsibility for this negligence lies with the IAA – www.iaa.ie .

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Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

what kind of moron doesn't know what to do with an oxygen mask?

Asok

It's a mask not a nuclear sub.
If you haven't paid attention to the announcement at the start of the flight then its time for nature to take its course and throw some chlorine into the gene pool.

A Dub in Glasgo

BRS = Bristol International Airport
GRO = Girona Airport (near Barcelona)

amacachi

The recorded voice announcement should explain firstly what to do – in multiple languages – English, French, German, Spanish + any other local language relevant to the origin or destination of the flight.

But then all the spanish are ****ed.

aliveandkicking

Exactly - you would want to be pretty simple not to know what do do with an oxygen mask. On every single flight there is a demonstation by the cabin crew of how to put on an oxygen mask so there is absolutely no excuse for people don't know what to do with them. No fault lies with the airline in this case.

probe

One of the issues is that not all of the oxygen masks appear to have worked - hence some of the passengers ending up in hospital. People want to hear information and reassurance during an in-flight emergency situation. It is incompetent and negligent not to have these in place.

No doubt some of the above posters work for Ryanair or IAA!

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/60913c1c-7340-11dd-8a66-0000779fd18c.html?nclick_check=1

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amacachi

No doubt you work in PR.

goingnowhere

What part of

In the unlikely event of a sudden loss of cabin pressure an oxygen mask will drop from the panel above your head. If this happens pull down on the mask to start the flow of oxygen and place over your mouth and breath normally

Do people not get? I only fly twice a year at most and can quote it word for word

You have to pull down since that pulls a pin out of the oxygen generator to trigger its operation.

Rule one of flying is to fly the plane, communication is secondary

probe

goingnowhere wrote: »

What part of



Do people not get? I only fly twice a year at most and can quote it word for word

You have to pull down since that pulls a pin out of the oxygen generator to trigger its operation.

Rule one of flying is to fly the plane, communication is secondary

I didn't know about having to pull something down to "pull a pin out of the oxygen generator" - I have never heard mention of it in flight safety announcements. Surely oxygen either comes from bottles or a central oxygen generation system - and therefore the system is "triggered" in terms of generating and pumping oxygen into the mask system before one pulls one's mask down. Don't the oxygen masks come down automatically?

As to "flying the plane" the cockpit crew's job is to fly the plane. The cabin crew's job is passenger safety. If the cabin crew is forced to take to their seats and put on oxygen masks, the system should take over automatically to communicate the necessary information to the passengers, in their native language. While many people can speak "shopping" English, when they get into technical emergency situations which might involve terms that they are unfamiliar with, they need to hear it in their native language to be absolutely clear.

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probe

amacachi wrote: »

No doubt you work in PR.

I am just a customer of the airlines, concerned that they operate to the highest standards. Like most people.

The hostile response that my posting has got here indicates to me that the posters have a vested interest.

No doubt you work for the Delighted Ryanair Customers Appreciation Society and Fan Club?

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corktina

they always tell you to pull down the mask dont they?






anyway I thought in an emergency you should put your head between your knees and kiss your ass goodbye...

Tom Dunne

probe wrote: »

I didn't know about having to pull something down to "pull a pin out of the oxygen generator" - I have never heard mention of it in flight safety announcements. Surely oxygen either comes from bottles or a central oxygen generation system - and therefore the system is "triggered" in terms of generating and pumping oxygen into the mask system before one pulls one's mask down. Don't the oxygen masks come down automatically?

Are you seriously saying you have never heard the announcement that when the oxygen masks drop down automatically that you pull them towards you and place them over your mouth?

All I am hearing is a rant at Ryanair. You really seem to have a gripe with them.

amacachi

probe wrote: »

I am just a customer of the airlines, concerned that they operate to the highest standards. Like most people.

The hostile response that my posting has got here indicates to me that the posters have a vested interest.

No doubt you work for the Delighted Ryanair Customers Appreciation Society and Fan Club?

.probe

I'm just an unemployed 20 year old. I personally haven't had any issues the two times I've been on a Ryanair flight.

Is that a facebook group?

No need to sign your name, it's there on the left when you make a post.

probe

corktina wrote: »

they always tell you to pull down the mask dont they?

Yes they generally do - but I've never heard mention of that action "pulling a pin". Two points arise here:

1) In the absence of a more precise wording, many people might assume "pull down the mask" means pull it down until it fits comfortably over your face - eg depending on your height etc. If the pull down operation activates a switch to start the oxygen flow - this needs to be said more clearly - especially at the point of an emergency when people are putting on their masks. They need to be told in an appropriate wording to "pull until the oxygen starts to flow". They would then know if they were getting no oxygen supply what to do to get it started!

2) The fact that goingnowhere knew about the pin activation makes me think that he too in an insider!

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BuffyBot

probe wrote: »

From media reports, it appears that a Ryanair 737 lost cabin pressure somewhere north of Limoges, en route from BRS to GRO. (Most of the?) oxygen masks popped down, but many passengers didn’t know what to do with them or what was happening to the aircraft. The cabin crew apparently couldn’t make announcements to inform passengers because they too were wearing oxygen masks, preventing them from using the public announcement system.

I think it's made pretty clear what to do during the briefing. Plus on Ryanair, the instructions are pasted to the back of the seat in front of you.

As a frequent flyer on many airlines, this is another example of the appalling way Irish aviation is regulated and managed

Eh?

It should be obvious to anyone planning emergency routines that recorded voice announcements must be in use (preferably automatic) as soon as the oxygen mask release mechanism is triggered.

Some aircraft support this - but I don't think all do. If it were mandated internationally, it probably would be built into all of them, but that's not something the Irish regulatory authorities can force.

The recorded voice announcement should explain firstly what to do – in multiple languages – English, French, German, Spanish + any other local language relevant to the origin or destination of the flight. The “what to do” message should be followed by a general “why this is happening” informational message to put passengers in the picture.

As this is covered by the pre-flight briefing, and the safety card what more can they really do?

Ryanair is very good spamming passengers with lottery and in-flight sales advertising. Which shows where the company’s priorities lie!

As opposed to what other airlines, flying the same model aircraft might do?

of the oxygen masks appear to have worked - hence some of the passengers ending up in hospital. People want to hear information and reassurance during an in-flight emergency situation. It is incompetent and negligent not to have these in place.

TBH, there isn't any *nice* way of putting this, but you really don't sound like you know what your talking about.

The "non working" masks seem to be more about people's misunderstanding. They don't give out air, they dispense oxygen. As such they only give out a small amount of it. People expect a "gush" when this isn't how it works. There were also comments about the bags not inflating...which of course, they aren't meant to.

The people didn't end up in hospital due to lack of oxygen!

Information, by all accounts, was given when the crew could - after they had got down to an appropriate level. Personally, I'd rather they dealt with the emergency first.

Hagar

probe wrote: »

One of the issues is that not all of the oxygen masks appear to have worked

Not true. All the masks were in perfect working order, it's just that some passengers didn't have the necessary €2 coin to operate them.

Tom Dunne

There's a more informed and level-headed discussion of this incident over on the Aviation Forum.

A lot of posters over there work in the aviation industry (and therefore actually have some knowledge of what they are talking about) and surprisingly enough, they think the situation was handled quite well.

blah

Found some interesting stuff on yahoo answers

Each mask assembly then falls out and is suspended by the actuating attachment on the flexible tubing. The action of pulling the mask down to a usable position withdraws the outlet valve actuation pin, opening the rotary valve, allowing oxygen to flow to the mask.

For the record, I haven't listened to the safety messages in years, but I've been under the impression for a long time that a tug on the mask was necessary to start the air flow. But I've flown around 100 times.

probe

amacachi wrote: »

I'm just an unemployed 20 year old. I personally haven't had any issues the two times I've been on a Ryanair flight.

Is that a facebook group?

If you are unemployed, perhaps you should consider applying for a job with Ryanair's PR department. You could create pro-Ryanair content and post it to twitter, facebook, myspace, etc, (not to mention boards.ie) and get paid for it!

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Alun

It's a pretty well known fact (if you've actually ever paid attention to the pre-flight briefing, rather than sitting there reading your newspaper with your mp3 player on) that you have to tug on the tube to activate the oxygen flow through the mask. They not only say so during the briefing, but give a little tug as as a demonstration. This is presumably so that masks that automatically fall down above empty seats don't just sit there unnecessarily spewing oxygen out into the cabin, when it could be better utilized elsewhere.

In AH parlance ... thread fail

probe

Tom Dunne wrote: »

There's a more informed and level-headed discussion of this incident over on the Aviation Forum.

A lot of posters over there work in the aviation industry (and therefore actually have some knowledge of what they are talking about) and surprisingly enough, they think the situation was handled quite well.

I'm sure they do (think the situation was well handled). But they are insiders with a vested interest.

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Tom Dunne

probe wrote: »

I'm sure they do (think the situation was well handled). But they are insiders with a vested interest.

.probe

Unreal. Put your tinfoil hat back on and go back into your underground bunker.

I think it's better for all of us.

blah

This is quite ambiguous though. Does the second panel mean 'Pull the mask down toward you', or 'Tug the mask down to start the air flow'?

amacachi

probe wrote: »

I'm sure they do (think the situation was well handled). But they are insiders with a vested interest.

.probe

Wrong forum?

What the **** are you talking about? There's no way that someone could have had two fine flights with Ryanair? Who have you flown with? Could you recommend me a good airline? Then you should go apply for a job in their PR department.

Riskymove

Look I don't care about ryanair one way or the other..but...

1. every time the safety demonstration is on they say to pull down to start the flow of oxygen after you put on your mask.

2. to be honest if an announcement started to come on in 5 different languages you could be waiting a long time before your language came.


Bottom line: There was a de-pressurisation, the pilot and crew handled it, landed it and everyone is alive. From what i heard on the radio those in hospital have ear/head ache from the pressure loss.

Tabnabs

One thing I was wondering about. The pilots have to put on their oxygen masks too, but their masks have radio mics in them. As it's a "controlled" decent, as opposed to a dog fight with aerobatics, could one of the pilots come over the PA and reiterate that they are descending by design (as opposed to by gravity) and that oxygen masks must be used until around 8000 ft and that more info will follow?

astrofool

So you expected the airline crew to start announcing to the passengers, and risk incapacitating themselves? I'm sure watching the air stewards fall unconscious would have had a very calming effect on the passengers.

r3nu4l

probe wrote: »

...oxygen masks popped down, but many passengers didn’t know what to do with them or what was happening to the aircraft. The cabin crew apparently couldn’t make announcements to inform passengers because they too were wearing oxygen masks, preventing them from using the public announcement system.

I fly at least 12 times a year, mostly with low-budget airlines including Ryanair. I'm not a fan of them but I use them.

Now, with that out of the way, all the oxygen masks were apparently working. I heard on the news this morning that those people that were hospitalised were suffering from earaches, likely due to ears popping quickly due to loss of air pressure. That's what the news said, could be right, could be wrong.

While Irish registered airlines operate all over Europe, the ability of cabin crew to speak the local language of the passenger is usually fairly appalling in my experience, particularly when it comes to Irish crew members. If you can’t communicate with your passengers in an emergency, this is a grossly negligent way to run an airline. The ultimate responsibility for this negligence lies with the IAA – www.iaa.ie .

Easyjet are just as bad and they are not Irish registered, is this just another case of "only-in-Ireland" syndrome?

probe wrote: »

I didn't know about having to pull something down to "pull a pin out of the oxygen generator" - I have never heard mention of it in flight safety announcements. Surely oxygen either comes from bottles or a central oxygen generation system - and therefore the system is "triggered" in terms of generating and pumping oxygen into the mask system before one pulls one's mask down. Don't the oxygen masks come down automatically?

Masks drop automatically, passengers are always told pre-flight to "pull down sharply to start the flow of oxygen".

The cabin crew's job is passenger safety. If the cabin crew is forced to take to their seats and put on oxygen masks, the system should take over automatically to communicate the necessary information to the passengers, in their native language. While many people can speak "shopping" English, when they get into technical emergency situations which might involve terms that they are unfamiliar with, they need to hear it in their native language to be absolutely clear.

It's a good idea and one that should be looked into. They could make automatic announcements about how to use the masks but no automatic announcement will be able to say what the problem is. There could be loads of reasons for a loss of cabin pressure.

probe wrote: »

Yes they generally do - but I've never heard mention of that action "pulling a pin". Two points arise here:

1) In the absence of a more precise wording, many people might assume "pull down the mask" means pull it down until it fits comfortably over your face - eg depending on your height etc. If the pull down operation activates a switch to start the oxygen flow - this needs to be said more clearly - especially at the point of an emergency when people are putting on their masks. They need to be told in an appropriate wording to "pull until the oxygen starts to flow". They would then know if they were getting no oxygen supply what to do to get it started!

2) The fact that goingnowhere knew about the pin activation makes me think that he too in an insider!

Again it's not pull on the mask to cover your face, it's "Pull down sharply to start the flow of oxygen...", if you don't pull sharply, you no get any of the oxygeno, comprende compadre?

Okay, I like the idea of general automatic announcements in local languages to say "pull down sharply to activate oxygen flow". That's a nice touch that should happen imo. The cabin crew must stay seated and use their masks so this would help.

Tabnabs

astrofool wrote: »

So you expected the airline crew to start announcing to the passengers, and risk incapacitating themselves? I'm sure watching the air stewards fall unconscious would have had a very calming effect on the passengers.

Do you even read the posts you're responding to?

Ste.phen

I doubt there's ANYONE who's flown more than once that doesn't know to pull down, I think the phrase 'place over your head and pull down SHARPLY to start the flow of ******' is what they say.