Novena never fails to work

EnigmasWhisper

santing wrote: »

The Roman Catholic Catechism says:

At first glance, your initial post falls into this category. Superstition is evil, isn't it?

Gosh, never heard that before

Hagar

God answers all prayers. Sometimes the answer is "No".

EnigmasWhisper

2) Praying to Mary? Why would you need to pray for Mary if we pray in account of Jesus' saving death? Isn't the crucifixion enough to atone for our sins and isn't Christ much more than any human?

Ive been pondering that point and personally I do believe Christ is much more than any human, well he is the son of God. If Christ knew that he had to die for our sins, if isaiah points to the fact that he had to be crucified and if Christ knew scripture and that all prophecies of God would come true. Why then did Christ pray to God and asked if he could be spared from the cross ? So although Christ knew all along that he was going to die, he still found it very difficult to bring his own "Will to live" to conform with his fathers will that he die. Does this in some way argue that Jesus was a human being, not only the son of God. Im not so sure either that Jesus came to die. Perhaps he came to live, but our hardness of heart allowed God's purpose to adapt accordingly ?

EnigmasWhisper

Hagar wrote: »

God answers all prayers. Sometimes the answer is "No".

I concurr

"Boards.ie you have to be a bit Daft to post here."

lol Just got that, forgot daft.ie were the new owners

JimiTime

EnigmasWhisper wrote: »

I believe I just posted a simple novena (prayer)

No you didn't. You posted a Novena and then categoriacally stated that if it was said for 3 days your prayers would be granted!

I dont think I at anytime sought to explain what a prayers is, or indeed enter into any sort of dialogue on any doctorine attatched to it.

There is a prayer request sticky for these things then. You are new, so I understand if you missed it. Usually things posted in the forum are the subject of scrutiny.

I posted a prayer

and said that if said for 3 days, it would be answered.

, others were perturbed by that,

Which can happen on forums like these.

I explained why catholics pray, why certain names are atributed to Mary historicaly, and how christians take certain interpertations from the bible to pray to others for intercession.

And people responded.

I doubt I can be anymore clearer than posting a simple novena now can I.

You didn't though. You said your prayers would be granted. Then some Christians pointed out that this type of Marian prayer is erronious. It is a discussion board. As i said though, if you want someone to pray this prayer etc, there is a sticky on the forum called 'prayer requests'. People don't dissect these like here on the forum.

If I posted PLASMA TV FOR SALE, WORKS BETTER THAN EVERY OTHER IN THE WORLD, NEVER BREAKS would you also attempt to dissect that.

Assuming you posted this on the appropriate forum, yes i would dissect it. i'd ask questions of your claims.

If you are so worried about the evil of good people everywhere offering up prayers to the mother of jesus in the hope of intercession . . . well my friend, Im glad the evil in my world is very different.

this is a discussion forum. People have challenged your claims that this Novena will work. Also, some have pointed out their reasons why they believe that praise directed away from God is ungodly and that anything ungodly is evil. godly things come from the Father. Ungodly things come from the father of ungodly things, namely, satan.

EnigmasWhisper

JimiTime wrote: »

No you didn't. You posted a Novena and then categoriacally stated that if it was said for 3 days your prayers would be granted!


There is a prayer request sticky for these things then. You are new, so I understand if you missed it. Usually things posted in the forum are the subject of scrutiny.



and said that if said for 3 days, it would be answered.


Which can happen on forums like these.


And people responded.


You didn't though. You said your prayers would be granted. Then some Christians pointed out that this type of Marian prayer is erronious. It is a discussion board. As i said though, if you want someone to pray this prayer etc, there is a sticky on the forum called 'prayer requests'. People don't dissect these like here on the forum.


Assuming you posted this on the appropriate forum, yes i would dissect it. i'd ask questions of your claims.



this is a discussion forum. People have challenged your claims that this Novena will work. Also, some have pointed out their reasons why they believe that praise directed away from God is ungodly and that anything ungodly is evil. godly things come from the Father. Ungodly things come from the father of ungodly things, namely, satan.

Didnt it work for you ?

Oh, is there. I didn’t realise, good point.

Yes I did, that’s usually how novenas go, isn’t it ?

So it seems

Maybe I just haven’t the passion anymore to enter into the same discussions again and again, on all the same points, from either perspective. When I was a teenager I would excitedly debate everything and anything from every organised religion going. I just tired of all the same debates through the years maybe, this one I remember having in religion class and Im still not the wiser to life and the meaning of it all, nor have I met anyone else that is.

Yes, and I agreed it was eronious and clarified the historical reasoning behind certain naming etc. I doubt Ill be posting another novena for fear of being hung and burned from the GPO. However if I do, Ill let you know

LCD tvs last longer, I was never a fan of plasma myself

Hm they didn’t really seek to challenge my claims about the novena. What they did was seek to enter into discussion about prayer itself, the reasoning behind it, why and how it should be done, oh and how it is ‘evil’ to pray to Mary and the saints etc. If your definition of evil is indeed as you say, then it must be a tremendous struggle everyday for you to get through this ol world of ours

Gurgle

EnigmasWhisper wrote: »

You didnt specify which 10 commandments ? Jewish "I am the Lord your God" Luthrean "You shall not make for yourself an idol" Roman catholic "You shall have no other Gods but me". Regardless of which you are referring to, I dont see there anything about "do no pray to a dead person its evil"

All of those variations on christian mythology specify that praying is done only to God.

EnigmasWhisper wrote:

is there something that I and every schoolchild, scholar and theolgian in the world is missing ?

No, afaik its just catholics.
A fairly small percentage of the schoolchildren and scholars, and none of the worlds theologians are catholic.

PDN

EnigmasWhisper wrote: »

If your definition of evil is indeed as you say, then it must be a tremendous struggle everyday for you to get through this ol world of ours

Not at all. It's quite easy to get through this ol world without resorting to praying to dead people - particularly when you know how to pray to God.

EnigmasWhisper

Gurgle wrote: »

All of those variations on christian mythology specify that praying is done only to God.

No, afaik its just catholics.
A fairly small percentage of the schoolchildren and scholars, and none of the worlds theologians are catholic.

Christian Mythology . . . I doubt you will be invited for tea and sadwiches at the stations of the cross anytime soon

A fairly small percentage of the words schoolchildren and scholars of the world are catholic ? Im not sure how to reply to that . . . um :rolleyes:

Wow, none of the worlds theologians are catholic ? Not only do I know quite a few personally myself but heres a few more beneath me for you to check out. You joker you


Mortimer Jerome Adler
G. E. M. Anscombe
Christopher Butler
Hélder Câmara
Michel de Certeau
Pierre Teilhard de Chardin
G. K. Chesterton (started writing in the twentieth century)
Frederick Copleston
John Downey
Henri de Lubac
Henry Denifle
Peter Dens
Michael Dummett
Jacques Dupuis
Ignacio Ellacuría
Daniel Garguillio
Peter Geach
Etienne Gilson
René Girard
Vekoslav Grmič
Romano Guardini
John Hardon
Ivan Illich
Catherine LaCugna
Bernard Lonergan
Alasdair Macintyre
Gabriel Marcel
Jacques Maritain
Thomas Merton
Vincent Miceli
Emmanuel Mounier
John Courtney Murray
Henri Nouwen
Walter J. Ong
Colin O'Sullivan
Josef Pieper
Karl Rahner
Joseph Ratzinger (Pope Benedict XVI)
Michael Scanlan
Max Scheler
Wilfrid Sellars
Robert Spencer
Michael Kheirabi, PHD
Edith Stein
Charles Taylor
František Tomášek
David Tracy
Jean-Luc Marion
Richard Rosengarten (Philosopher and Dean of University of Chicago Div School)
John C. Cavadini (Specialization in Patristics - Augustine; Notre Dame)
Cyril O'Regan (Modern Philosophy/Theology - Notre Dame)
Edward Joe Holland
Jean Vanier
Bas van Fraassen
Hans Urs von Balthasar
Dietrich von Hildebrand
Oswald von Nell-Breuning
Bernie Ward
Thomas Weinandy

Oh and of course the last pope Karol Wojtyła (Pope John Paul II)

Your not the guy that sits in the corner of my local sticking coins with guinness on the ceiling are you ?

EnigmasWhisper

PDN wrote: »

Not at all. It's quite easy to get through this ol world without resorting to praying to dead people - particularly when you know how to pray to God.

I meant with the 1.86 billion evil catholics praying to dead people . . . they are everywhere, beware :eek:

Sam Kade

EnigmasWhisper wrote: »

I meant with the 1.86 billion evil catholics praying to dead people . . . they are everywhere, beware :eek:

Enigmaswhisper for the second time did the novena work for you?

PDN

Gurgle wrote: »

A fairly small percentage of the schoolchildren and scholars, and none of the worlds theologians are catholic.

Actually there are some very prominent Catholic theologians (eg Avery Dulles, leonardo Boff, hans Kung). Many of the best ones have sadly kicked the bucket during the last 20 years or so (Raymond Brown, Henri Nouwen, Karl Rahner, Helder Camara). The present pope is also respected as a theologian by catholics and non-catholics alike.

PDN

EnigmasWhisper wrote: »

I meant with the 1.86 billion evil catholics praying to dead people . . . they are everywhere, beware :eek:

As far as I am aware no-one said that they were evil (except you). Myself and Jimi have said that we believe the practice of praying to dead people to be evil, not that those who are deluded to do so are evil.

Thankfully the days are long past when the Catholic Church would kill you for daring to believe and state such a thing.

EnigmasWhisper

Sam Kade wrote: »

Enigmaswhisper for the second time did the novena work for you?

Ah sorry Sam, didnt see it the first time. . I said it also and it seems to have worked yes. Although I did pray to God also

EnigmasWhisper

PDN wrote: »

As far as I am aware no-one said that they were evil (except you). Myself and Jimi have said that we believe the practice of praying to dead people to be evil, not that those who are deluded to do so are evil.

Thankfully the days are long past when the Catholic Church would kill you for daring to believe and state such a thing.

Hi again From what I remember, you said praying to dead people was evil. You also claimed that praying equated to spiritualisim. Im still waiting for you to define evil ? They may be deluded to you, but Im sure they might feel equally sorry for you.

Its not the catholic church Im worried about, its you guys. I mean people who go around defining prayer as evil, on the flip side maybe also deem murder is moral and justified :rolleyes:

EnigmasWhisper

PDN wrote: »

Actually there are some very prominent Catholic theologians (eg Avery Dulles, leonardo Boff, hans Kung). Many of the best ones have sadly kicked the bucket during the last 20 years or so (Raymond Brown, Henri Nouwen, Karl Rahner, Helder Camara). The present pope is also respected as a theologian by catholics and non-catholics alike.

True

TravelJunkie

EnigmasWhisper wrote: »

2) Praying to Mary? Why would you need to pray for Mary if we pray in account of Jesus' saving death? Isn't the crucifixion enough to atone for our sins and isn't Christ much more than any human?

Ive been pondering that point and personally I do believe Christ is much more than any human, well he is the son of God. If Christ knew that he had to die for our sins, if isaiah points to the fact that he had to be crucified and if Christ knew scripture and that all prophecies of God would come true. Why then did Christ pray to God and asked if he could be spared from the cross ? So although Christ knew all along that he was going to die, he still found it very difficult to bring his own "Will to live" to conform with his fathers will that he die. Does this in some way argue that Jesus was a human being, not only the son of God. Im not so sure either that Jesus came to die. Perhaps he came to live, but our hardness of heart allowed God's purpose to adapt accordingly ?

I'd like to comment on your post here. Jesus did come to die and he knew that. You make the point that Jesus had to conform his human will with his father's will. - I love this about Jesus. It means that he understands what it's like for us here. There is nothing that we experience that he hasn't. Even loneliness. After all of his faithfull life he died alone - without the presence of God. And he did this for us.

JimiTime

EnigmasWhisper wrote: »

Hi again From what I remember, you said praying to dead people was evil. You also claimed that praying equated to spiritualisim. Im still waiting for you to define evil ? They may be deluded to you, but Im sure they might feel equally sorry for you.

Its not the catholic church Im worried about, its you guys. I mean people who go around defining prayer as evil, on the flip side maybe also deem murder is moral and justified :rolleyes:

EnigmasWhisper

JimiTime wrote: »

Jimi your confused a lot. I was explaining I could be more worried about people who think praying to mary and saints is 'evil' hanging and burning me outside the GPO for posting a simple prayer than of the modern day catholic church

EnigmasWhisper

TravelJunkie wrote: »

I'd like to comment on your post here. Jesus did come to die and he knew that. You make the point that Jesus had to conform his human will with his father's will. - I love this about Jesus. It means that he understands what it's like for us here. There is nothing that we experience that he hasn't. Even loneliness. After all of his faithfull life he died alone - without the presence of God. And he did this for us.

Well said, good point

Gurgle

PDN wrote: »

Actually there are some very prominent Catholic theologians (eg Avery Dulles, leonardo Boff, hans Kung)

I know, I know.

I just find novinas & the like to be a particularly amusing facet of modern catholicism.

This crap has slowly taken over from traditional catholicism: Magic trees, shrines, healing threads, holy water, moving statues, people with ***The Cure***, etc.

Is there, anywhere in the bible or the Cathecism, any suggestion that publishing prayers will get God's attention?

EnigmasWhisper wrote:

I meant with the 1.86 billion evil catholics praying to dead people . . .

Pffft
Theres only ~1.15 billion catholics in the world.
Probably less than half of them actually pray, so thats well under a billion evil catholics praying to dead people.

JimiTime

EnigmasWhisper wrote: »

Jimi your confused a lot. I was explaining I could be more worried about people who think praying to mary and saints is 'evil' hanging and burning me outside the GPO for posting a simple prayer than of the modern day catholic church

PDN

EnigmasWhisper wrote: »

Jimi your confused a lot. I was explaining I could be more worried about people who think praying to mary and saints is 'evil' hanging and burning me outside the GPO for posting a simple prayer than of the modern day catholic church

Ah, so that explains the bodies I keep seeing hanging up outside the GPO on a Sunday afternoon. And there I was thinking it was some kind of modern art display.

EnigmasWhisper

Gurgle wrote: »

I know, I know.

I just find novinas & the like to be a particularly amusing facet of modern catholicism.

This crap has slowly taken over from traditional catholicism: Magic trees, shrines, healing threads, holy water, moving statues, people with ***The Cure***, etc.

Is there, anywhere in the bible or the Cathecism, any suggestion that publishing prayers will get God's attention

Pffft
Theres only ~1.15 billion catholics in the world.
Probably less than half of them actually pray, so thats well under a billion evil catholics praying to dead people.

lol Ill have whatever your on. Only 1.5 billion, and the majority of scholars, school children arent catholic and no theologians are right. More than half are evil also. Thats why I dont particularly like posting on forums anymore, people like this tulip :rolleyes:

EnigmasWhisper

PDN wrote: »

Ah, so that explains the bodies I keep seeing hanging up outside the GPO on a Sunday afternoon. And there I was thinking it was some kind of modern art display.

lol From what I can ascertain they are civil servants

EnigmasWhisper

JimiTime wrote: »

Jimi you rascal

:):)

santing

EnigmasWhisper wrote: »

Why then did Christ pray to God and asked if he could be spared from the cross ? So although Christ knew all along that he was going to die, he still found it very difficult to bring his own "Will to live" to conform with his fathers will that he die. Does this in some way argue that Jesus was a human being, not only the son of God. Im not so sure either that Jesus came to die. Perhaps he came to live, but our hardness of heart allowed God's purpose to adapt accordingly ?

It might warrant a separate thread...

Maybe the Lord Jesus prayed this because of the enormous task laying ahead of Him. Agreeing that he would do this work when He came into the world (which is attested by numerous other scripture, such as Hebrews 10 (vs 3-12)), He still was afraid for doing it. One could read His prayer: "If there is another way, please Father, anything but this ... but Your will must happen, and I will do Your will."

That sounds a bit more positive!

Hagar

JimiTime wrote: »

and said that if said for 3 days, it would be answered.

EnigmasWhisper wrote: »

Yes I did, that’s usually how novenas go, isn’t it ?

No it isn't actually. You're wrong. If you're going to be any good at this God bothering lark find out how it's supposed to work first.

A Novena is a prayer said on nine consecutive days. A special type of Novena is said on the nine first Fridays of consecutive months. Trying to palm off a prayer a day for three days as a novena is laziness in the extreme and probably constitutes a gross breach of the trades descriptions act and could land you in serious trouble with the legal team of the Big Man.

If you really must bother the Creator of the All Things with your piddling little complaints at least have the decency to observe the correct protocols.

santing

EnigmasWhisper wrote: »

Gosh, never heard that before

Interestingly, this section of the Catechism contains warnings against:

• 2113 honoring and revering a creature in place of God, whether this be gods or demons (for example, satanism), power, pleasure, race, ancestors, the state, money, etc.
• 2116 All forms of divination
• 2117 All practices of magic or sorcery
• 2117 Wearing charms
• 2117 so-called traditional cures
• 2121 buying or selling of spiritual things

EnigmasWhisper

Hagar wrote: »

No it isn't actually. You're wrong. If you're going to be any good at this God bothering lark find out how it's supposed to work first.

A Novena is a prayer said on nine consecutive days. A special type of Novena is said on the nine first Fridays of consecutive months. Trying to palm off a prayer a day for three days as a novena is laziness in the extreme and probably constitutes a gross breach of the trades descriptions act and could land you in serious trouble with the legal team of the Big Man.

If you really must bother the Creator of the All Things with your piddling little complaints at least have the decency to observe the correct protocols.

lol That put me in my place, and there I was thinking I was the queen of the novenas