Hi Cap v Mid Cap

kdouglas

Hivemind187 wrote: »

Although it does allow you the unfair advantage of being able to hold the trigger down for 300 rounds

True, but I still don't. When I see/hear someone firing off a whole mag in full auto it just makes me think they are either a newb or just dont really have much of a concept of good gameplay.

Fallschirmjager wrote: »

i would be a mid capper. altho i recently got new acu interceptor armour with the shoulder guards and true to the original it is ridiculous how many molle pouches you can get. so i can carry 12 mags, 6 40mm nades and 2 pouches for gas and bb reloading,and ammo for a pistol and thats just the front panels...so i guess i am a walking hi cap...emphasis on walking. you do sweat like a pervert in a barney suit however...i can now understand why the newer ops combat shirts are all the rage.

as KD said, there is a lot of fun in the 'oh s**t' moment when you realise you are out and have to reload...

i would like one of those auto loaders tho...did anyone ever get one of these and review them?

Yea, I got 6 of them in that bulk order, haven't really used mine that much, mainly at the gathering 2, but found it to be very useful for loading 10 midcaps without cramping up my hand.

vtec wrote: »

I carry 4-5hicaps and the same amount of mids., Id love to be ale to use only midcaps but you'd simply be outgunned. theres people out their with box mags on subby killers! and some people carry a lot more hicaps than others, for one man to play in a game like that he'd need a awful lot of midcaps to stand a chance.,

That's what I meant by an unfair game, m4 box mags should be banned, spray and pray is not my style at all. Pick your target and do some aiming. Box mags on support guns only please

Puding

Thread needs a poll please.

I tryed to stay awqay form a poll as its normaly a yes or no answer where as I wanted depate on both types of mag and there use in games and gameplay, I do think there is a use for both types not a simple hi caps are bad/mid caps are a waste of time.

Rhinocharge

Lets be honest, it's all down to personal choice.
Those whom want realism use low caps.
Those whom want realism without the 2.5-3 second burst use mid caps.
Those whom want hi-cap, just want fun or have been caught short before.

Personally I use all types. Ask any serving soldier & he'll tell you if they could carry higher capacity magazines without the increase in weight they'd do it. You can never have enough ammo.

Whether it be low, mid or hi capacity. It should be your choice.
Drum magazines could be used as light support guns.
Anyone whom doesn't agree, can get stuffed!!!!!!!

Rhinocharge

Motosam wrote: »

I never saw rambo fiddling with his mag mid gun fight.quote]

That's cause they edited it!!

ED E

weeder wrote: »

takes longer to wind a hi cap then to put in a mid, glad that my m4 i caps only need 1 wind, that said i havent got around to buying mids and and i enjoyed the game a lot the day i did use them

I get ~200 rnds out of an Aug mag on one wind. And wind in between bursts man. Also, with fumbling to put the empty in a dump and withdrawing and slapping a new one in, somebody with quick fingers is gonna be just as quick.(Bar an mp5, they're fiddly)

Rhinocharge

kdouglas wrote: »

Yea, I got 6 of them in that bulk order, haven't really used mine that much, mainly at the gathering 2, but found it to be very useful for loading 10 midcaps without cramping up my hand.:)

Hand cramps hmm, we all know the answer to solving that!!

Puding

Personally I use all types. Ask any serving soldier & he'll tell you if they could carry higher capacity magazines without the increase in weight they'd do it. You can never have enough ammo.

Whether it be low, mid or hi capacity. It should be your choice.
Drum magazines could be used as light support guns.
Anyone whom doesn't agree, can get stuffed!!!!!!!

and in the real world you do not fight with fair team with rules and regen, you normaly attack in overwelming fource, and the game normaly start with a nice artillary or airstrike

you could imagine in the real world, ''hay guys give use one of your guys teams are not fair''

The Master

Motosam wrote: »

I never saw rambo fiddling with his mag mid gun fight.

Rambo never changed mags
Belt fed FTW:D

NakedDex

Lethal_Bullet wrote: »

I get ~200 rnds out of an Aug mag on one wind. And wind in between bursts man. Also, with fumbling to put the empty in a dump and withdrawing and slapping a new one in, somebody with quick fingers is gonna be just as quick.(Bar an mp5, they're fiddly)

It depends on how you do it. Someone who has set up their rig comfortably will be far quicker than somone winding. And even high caps need to be put into a dump pouch eventually so it's no real advantage. The nice thing about mids/lows/reals is you can just drop them without worrying about breaking them if you're in a hurry to reload. Drop a hicap and you'll likely destroy the reasonably delicate clockwork. Drop a mid and you might get it dirty, that's about it.

MP5's are absurdly easy to reload, maybe you're just doing it awkwardly.

Killinator

Theres always people in a situation where they cant get mid caps for their gun, and have to use high-caps, i dont mind using high caps, i dont use it for a support style role, just becasue you have a high-cap dosnt mean you have to lay 20-30 second bursts down

Puding

MP5's are desperately easy to reload, maybe you're just doing it awkwardly.

the mp5 is also a lot easyer to use mid caps with, i can fit 3 mp5 100rd midcaps in the space one of my ak74 mid caps takes up

bullets

Tigger wrote: »

what bbs are you using in it ?

Excel I think!
Someone mentioned someplace that the Hi Cap mag for the P90
was picky about the brand?

~B

ED E

NakedDex wrote: »

MP5's are absurdly easy to reload, maybe you're just doing it awkwardly.

I meant to wind, the dial is smaller.

Rhinocharge

Puding wrote: »

and in the real world you do not fight with fair team with rules and regen, you normaly attack in overwelming fource, and the game normaly start with a nice artillary or airstrike

you could imagine in the real world, ''hay guys give use one of your guys teams are not fair''

So why should some change their choice of magazine, because others don't agree. Personal choice. You like it, you hate it. Who cares?

Puding

So why should some change their choice of magazine, because others don't agree. Personal choice. You like it, you hate it. Who cares?

Well all my comments have been balanced and i can rather remeber one of most post saying that each type has it place. Its a disccusion that is all, a discussion about hi cap and mid cap and game play, im of the view that the sites are devloping a differant game styles will be avaliable for differant types of play, want spray and pray and hi caps go to site a want mil sim and high cap restrictions go to site b.

Sorry if you did not get my comment in regard to your post, but im not going to spend the time explaining it to you.

Rhinocharge

Puding wrote: »

Well all my comments have been balanced and i can rather remeber one of most post saying that each type has it place, sorry if you did not get my comment in regard to your post, but im not going to spend the time explaining it to you.

No need to apologise Puding. It's a generic answer.

NakedDex

Choice of mags is fine, it's up to the person. But I feel midcaps are the bed compromise between everything. Sprayers get 120 or so rounds without having to reload, milsim/scenario gamers get their more realistic ammo and the chance to reload and mids are cheap and almost never fail so they're great for people on a budget and for newer players.

The only thing I feel should be disallowed is box mags/c-mags on anything that isn't a proper designated support gun. People who use them create an incredibly unfair advantage for themselves, even against people using hicaps. The trade off for being able to carry huge quantities of ammo in an auto-winding box is having a heavy/clumsy/lumbering gun. An assault rifle is not a support gun, and the inclusion of a box mag does not make it one. I have no qualms with coming against an M249 or MG36 etc with a box mag.
Ban the wannabe fsg's, that's my opinion, and it's shared by a lot more people.

Rhinocharge

NakedDex wrote: »

Choice of mags is fine, it's up to the person. But I feel midcaps are the bed compromise between everything. Sprayers get 120 or so rounds without having to reload, milsim/scenario gamers get their more realistic ammo and the chance to reload and mids are cheap and almost never fail so they're great for people on a budget and for newer players.

The only thing I feel should be disallowed is box mags/c-mags on anything that isn't a proper designated support gun. People who use them create an incredibly unfair advantage for themselves, even against people using hicaps. The trade off for being able to carry huge quantities of ammo in an auto-winding box is having a heavy/clumsy/lumbering gun. An assault rifle is not a support gun, and the inclusion of a box mag does not make it one. I have no qualms with coming against an M249 or MG36 etc with a box mag.
Ban the wannabe fsg's, that's my opinion, and it's shared by a lot more people.

Agreed, however there are individuals out there whom are unable to carry a 10lb mmg. Where by a M15 using Hi-cap 300 rd mags, add a bipod & support strap & the 5lbs is exceptable. I'd see this as a lmg, not as popular today as they once were. Not everyone is a strong as others.

Mind you a 2,000 rd drum mag on a Mp5 is nuts!!

SniperSight

Motosam wrote: »

I never saw rambo fiddling with his mag mid gun fight.

That said you don't see too many people going bare chested, full-auto from the hip with an M-60!!:p:p:p
I would'nt be too quick to copy Rambo!!:p


Seriously though, I use a mix of both HI and Mid caps. I have a slight preference for Hi-Caps although I do hate the rattle, as I love to sneak around(SCOPE can testify to this!!:))

NakedDex

Rhinocharge wrote: »

Agreed, however there are individuals out there whom are unable to carry a 10lb mmg. Where by a M15 using Hi-cap 300 rd mags, add a bipod & support strap & the 5lbs is exceptable. I'd see this as a lmg, not as popular today as they once were. Not everyone is a strong as others.

Mind you a 2,000 rd drum mag on a Mp5 is nuts!!

If you can't carry a support gun, don't use a support gun. Use an assault rifle and some magazines like everyone else. The M249 is the LMG of choice both among many armies and airsofters. The M240B would be one of the more common MMG's and the M60 would be the most popular HMG. If someone wants to use an LMG, the options are limited to the M249, the MG36 (which you'll have to make yourself) or the L85 LSW (which will cost you a fortune). There are, of course, other options, but they get progressively rarer and/or more expensive. Many of the don't even take box mags, merely extended mags (L85 LSW being one, Steyr LSG being another).
My point is, an assault rifle or smg with a box mag is no more an LMG than a Glock 18c with an extended mag. It's giving a hugely unfair advantage against people who use any other gun. Even an M60 wouldn't last long against a tuned up M4 with a C-mag because the M4 user can actually run and dive and hide etc where the M60 would have to stay put or move slower. Surely that can't be seen as fair?

Lemming

Rhinocharge wrote: »

Agreed, however there are individuals out there whom are unable to carry a 10lb mmg. Where by a M15 using Hi-cap 300 rd mags, add a bipod & support strap & the 5lbs is exceptable. I'd see this as a lmg, not as popular today as they once were. Not everyone is a strong as others.

As said already, tbh, if you can't bear the weight then you perhaps shouldn't be using it [whatever it is], unless you're prepared to deal with the consequences. To add further to this, most airsoft replicas of H/M/L-MGs are lighter than their RS inspirations. So the comment about weight gets some airtime x2 there.

Granted, the likes of my M60 or the new Inokatsu GPMG (which is even heavier ... ) are just shy of their RS-counterparts. But that comes down to personal choice and accepting the trade-offs and limitations on play-style that come with that choice. Also helps if you're able to carry them. I've heard people complaining about carrying M249 Paras - I always smirk when I hear that. Anyway, my point is that the decision to carry support AEGs is a personal one that also comes with consideration (among other things) for physical ability and play style (or restrictions therein)

SniperSight wrote: »

That said you don't see too many people going bare chested, full-auto from the hip with an M-60!!:p:p:p

I can (and have done) full-auto from the hip with an M60 - whilst sprinting too - although it's not something to be done with any degree of frequency since it does knacker you eventually.

Bare-chested? BBs and bare skin don' tmix well. And I wouldn't want to make the rest of you feel inferior or self-conscious


As for Hi-Cap Vs. Mid-Cap - both have their place but personally speaking I much prefer mid-caps. Even when I used hi-caps I found myself using ammo sparingly (i.e. aiming to hit rather than pray and spray) more often than not.

Hivemind187

I have to agree with Lemming and Dex here.

I play the support gunner role for my team and the A&K 249 is heavy enough (MkI model is anyway) without all the extra kit you have to carry like mags for your mates and spare box mags for the gun. Especially after 3-4 hours. But thats the choice you make to be a support gunner and have the fun of attracting more fire than pretty much everyone bar the Marshal.

When you see someone doing backflips and supermans into the ditch with a box mag M4 it's a little annoying. When he puts down a layer of fire that makes your support gun envious its even more annoying.

On the other hand, if you turn up for a spray and pray day then I suppose you should expect no less.

Tommyboy71

I use mid-caps now because I prefer mag changes to winding up a mag. As someone said, you just drop the mag out and slap in another. It also makes you more careful with your shots because you know your limitations as far as each mag goes. I have 10 mid-caps and 2 hi-caps that are used as lo/mid-caps. I will never use hi-caps again if it can be avoided.

Fallschirmjager wrote: »

ii would like one of those auto loaders tho...did anyone ever get one of these and review them?

Very handy piece of kit. It came in very useful at Pred. I had been involved in a serious amount of firefights and used all 12 mags. 5 minutes later I was back up and gunning with freshly filled mags (resupply).

Although it doesn't completely fill the mags (70 to 90 BB's per charge, I will have to do a proper test of this and I will let you know.), it is so much quicker than a manual loader. Each mag can be filled in about 10 seconds.

Rhinocharge

NakedDex wrote: »

If you can't carry a support gun, don't use a support gun. Use an assault rifle and some magazines like everyone else. have to stay put or move slower.

Is that an opinion or an order?

Lemming

Hivemind187 wrote: »

I play the support gunner role for my team and the A&K 249 is heavy enough (MkI model is anyway) without all the extra kit you have to carry like mags for your mates and spare box mags for the gun. Especially after 3-4 hours. But thats the choice you make to be a support gunner and have the fun of attracting more fire than pretty much everyone bar the Marshal.

Just to give an idea of the more extreme end of airsoft support gunnery weight considerations here; at Berget 6 I was carrying 10kg of metal (my '60), plus about 1.25kg of ammo (restricted limit for infantry support was 3600 extra rounds + whatever is in the box - 1500 for me). Add in 3 lt of water (so approx another 3kg) plus webbing with spare batteries, food, pistol plus three mags, etc. etc. etc. and you're looking at somewhere upwards of 15kg. All that cordua 1000 webbing actually weighs a bit when you add it all up as well.

Now, all of the above was being carried for well in excess of 4 hours at a time, in near-constant daylight (23 hours) and sometimes merciless sunshine/heat. And believe me when I say there were many times I questioned my sanity. If you're doing an ordinary day skirmish or some events, you don't need to worry so much about the weight you're carrying since you can shed it easily nearby. At events that would be more milsim-oriented you're in it for the long-haul.

ED E

Lemming wrote: »

As for Hi-Cap Vs. Mid-Cap - both have their place....

I agree though, and have said this for ages in PC Games, is that the HMG/Support gun role should, as all roles do, have its disadvantage, in this case weight and manouverability. If we could have recoil I'd say that too but for the moment we do. Support guns should be 6KG minimum IMO, 8 would be better. A support gunner is meant to lie in a hole with the bipod down suppressing a doorway or passage or path ect ect. MP5 support guns are a joke. So is my Aug CMAG(Which has upset some people, its a for fun things, just like pauls RPG). For everyday games the people with lots of ammo to spend usually use it, and all that time the snipers are sighting them right between the eyes(not literally of course!). I have no problem with their use then.

When we are actually doing proper milsim I say midcaps, not reals. If bbs went through ply and bushes fine, realcaps, but with airsoft you somtimes need a burst to hit a visable target where a single RS round would do the trick. Thus I beleive mids are a suitable compromise. I'll be ordering some KA Aug Mids and some for the Sig if they are available. Unfortunatly I cant get them for the UMP so that'll be grounded for milsims.

Also, point to note on realcaps, dont for get to half load your pistols! They dont take 26rnds in real life.

Lemming

Lethal_Bullet wrote: »

I agree though, and have said this for ages in PC Games, is that the HMG/Support gun role should, as all roles do, have its disadvantage, in this case weight and manouverability. If we could have recoil I'd say that too but for the moment we do. Support guns should be 6KG minimum IMO, 8 would be better. A support gunner is meant to lie in a hole with the bipod down suppressing a doorway or passage or path ect ect. MP5 support guns are a joke.

I'll disagree with that. Support gunners aren't meant to just lie in holes. They're no good to a platoon/section/squad/fire-team if they can't move.

ED E

Lemming wrote: »

I'll disagree with that. Support gunners aren't meant to just lie in holes. They're no good to a platoon/section/squad/fire-team if they can't move.

Well, should ommit the support bit there. HMGs are usually pretty stationary(Unless on a vehicle of course). HMGs suppress, Prv. Joe Soap moves up under their cover. Then the HMG is out of range, he moves up just behind the front line once again. No leading the charge.

LMGs though, are squad weapons. S.A.W. = Squad automatic weapon. I perfectly accepted being charged at, and leaped over, by Alan from ATF weilding a para. They can be used to lead the charge. On the same note if somebody did it with a 60, my imediate reaction would probably be what the F###. Again, I say neither are suitable for extremely close CQB Let mr MP5 clear the room, then set up a fire support position.

Lemming

Lethal_Bullet wrote: »

Well, should ommit the support bit there. HMGs are usually pretty stationary(Unless on a vehicle of course). HMGs suppress, Prv. Joe Soap moves up under their cover. Then the HMG is out of range, he moves up just behind the front line once again. No leading the charge.

LMGs though, are squad weapons. S.A.W. = Squad automatic weapon. I perfectly accepted being charged at, and leaped over, by Alan from ATF weilding a para. They can be used to lead the charge. On the same note if somebody did it with a 60, my imediate reaction would probably be what the F###. Again, I say neither are suitable for extremely close CQB Let mr MP5 clear the room, then set up a fire support position.

Ok, we're moving into territory beyond hi-cap vs. mid-cap so I think this is an argument for another day and another thread. Suffice to say I am also going to disagree with some of the first paragraph.

On another point, I am now going to make it my mission to lead a charge at you with my M60 combined iwht some physics-defying-manuever. I reckon those few 'wtf?!!!' moments will give me an edge on you :P

Rhinocharge

Just for the record a HMG is normally an MMG ( 7.62mm Gun or higher ) that is fixed to a vechicle turret whether fixed or temp or positioned on a tripod.

A MMG is a 7.62mm or more commonly now, due to NATO changing to the 5.56mm round gun that is carried in support of a squad or platoon & is positioned on a bipod.

A LMG is any MG that fires a rifle round on FA only, has a longer barrel ( range ) & normally uses magazines. LMG's normally look like the variant of their assault rifle cousin. They are usually equipped with a bipod.

The use of a support gun normally means that the squad also carries munitions for same whether belt or magazine. The days of the 3 man MG support team are well over.