Hi Cap v Mid Cap

Puding

Just thought it might be interesting to know people opinions on the mater, there has been a very strong move from hi caps over to mid caps down in cork, clearly people still use hi caps but there has been a clear swing away from them when using anything other than an support weapon.

This has not been imposed by the sites but since your first one or two skirmishes, the change has taken place and has a marked effect on game play and style.

I personally normally run around with 9 midcaps when using an assault rifle/smg, normally loaded with about 100rds (i tend not to load them up completely to help with feeding) 8 in the webbing and 1 in the rifle. I find this balanced and i always enjoy reloading under fire.

So what are people views on mid cap and hi caps.

horgan_p

tbh i'm happier with midcaps.
no stopping to wind !

no rattle either

Hivemind187

I have 11 midcaps (1x60rnd 4x100rnd and 6x130rnd) and I'd normally load these before leaving the house in the morning.

That said, I carry a bunch of high caps with me (usually two in a mag clamp) to the site because reloading Mid-caps can be a real chore.

They are miles better though, more fun, less rattle, no catastrophic "unwinding" just when you need those last few rounds the most. If I could just get them in metal at 30rnd or 50rnd capcity I'd be laughing.

Dr_Pepper

Im a MidCap fan.
The only thing i like HiCaps in is a support gun.

We played a bunch of games at HRTA last weekend with ammo limits.
3 x MidCaps or 1 HiCap were all that one could have (excluding 1 pistol mag).
It made for some great games!

Puding

3 x MidCaps or 1 HiCap were all that one could have (excluding 1 pistol mag).
It made for some great games!

We have done the same kind of thing, when cork first started people would go out loaded with a silly amount of hi caps and ammo, this quickly got rather boring within a week or two really, we have done a number of limited ammo games normally running at about 300 rds so you can load up with that how you want, be it 1 hi cap or a few mid caps.

I’m of the opinion that excessive hi caps lead to the practice of people walking bbs onto a target instead of aiming.

RC car fanatic

I prefer Hi-caps.Especially the G&G ones.rounds and I don't mind the rattle either.Mid-caps are fun and I too love reloading in the middle of a battle but I like to be able to shoot continuously.

ED E

Ok, like I said on IRC last night, this whole issue, in my opinion, kinda splits airsoft into to sections: "Milsimish" and the more common BB hosing which can only be associated with Paintball. I like both, the latter being generally what you'll get at an average saturday skirmish. Some player choose to use midcaps but thats their choics, nobodys telling them to(at these games the noise factor is a waste, but I get the loading bit). Personally I prefer these as they are just laidback games that are a bit of fun. Then, you have the ammo type games and full milsim ones which apply restrictions and they can be quite intense.

Both work well in the role they play and as long as guns come with Hi-caps its going to be very prohibitive to "ban" them(I know nobody suggested it, just making a point). I say just play the game the way you want to play and as long as they arent cheating I couldn't care less what mags ect the others are using.

Tigger

hi caps make all decent aegs into support weapons without the weight or size and the restrictions that these bring

i think that they have a place but that with them in play the luck/skill ratio is affected

good for beginners but need to be restricted in the long term

kdouglas

absolutely, definitely, 100% prefer midcaps, i cant stand the rattle and winding with hicaps. reloading under fire is also a bit of fun too and in my own opinion, makes the game fairer.

The only exception I make to this is my P90, primarily because the hi-caps dont rattle and only need to be wound once, but even at that I would normally only use one mag in a game (300 rounds)

Hivemind187

kdouglas wrote: »

absolutely, definitely, 100% prefer midcaps, i cant stand the rattle and winding with hicaps. reloading under fire is also a bit of fun too and in my own opinion, makes the game fairer.

The only exception I make to this is my P90, primarily because the hi-caps dont rattle and only need to be wound once, but even at that I would normally only use one mag in a game (300 rounds)

Although it does allow you the unfair advantage of being able to hold the trigger down for 300 rounds

birdman 1979

I use 1 tm X 68, 2X G&P 130, 1X CA 130 and a src hi cap that i got with a src 416. I find lately that the G&P and CA need a good lot of silicone before use. The mags keep jamming when in use. Bar frm that i only use the midcaps when i am playing. 458 bbs does the trick for a cqb match.:D

Puding

hi caps make all decent aegs into support weapons without the weight or size and the restrictions that these bring

this is an issue I have, I think there should be some advantage to lugging a support weapon about,

It really comes down to the sites you play at i think there is a definite difference in game play style between site, we are not just talking special weekends and events, seems to be a rash of these semi 'misim' events of late, some sites seem to be in the milsim camp week in week out where as some sites are more in the spray and prey camp.

Its a natural thing you see in airsoft around the world and its nice to see airsoft developing into different areas. For me there is nothing wrong with sites placing restrictions on players, this is easier for Dublin area as if someone does not like rules or game types at one site its semi easy to go to another.

Fallschirmjager

i would be a mid capper. altho i recently got new acu interceptor armour with the shoulder guards and true to the original it is ridiculous how many molle pouches you can get. so i can carry 12 mags, 6 40mm nades and 2 pouches for gas and bb reloading,and ammo for a pistol and thats just the front panels...so i guess i am a walking hi cap...emphasis on walking. you do sweat like a pervert in a barney suit however...i can now understand why the newer ops combat shirts are all the rage.

as KD said, there is a lot of fun in the 'oh s**t' moment when you realise you are out and have to reload...

i would like one of those auto loaders tho...did anyone ever get one of these and review them?

Masada

I carry 4-5hicaps and the same amount of mids., Id love to be ale to use only midcaps but you'd simply be outgunned. theres people out their with box mags on subby killers! and some people carry a lot more hicaps than others, for one man to play in a game like that he'd need a awful lot of midcaps to stand a chance.,

gerrowadat

It's hard to tell what kind of game it will end up being. I carry 5 m4 midcaps and 2 hicaps just in case it's a shooty kinda game. Obviously I'd prefer if people stuck to ammo limits, but you're not really able to impose that kinda thing on some people, since some people just wanna shoot, a lot, all the time, and wouldnt be having fun otherwise.

extremetaz

clearly none of you use a G36.... :rolleyes:

Much as I would very much prefer to use midcaps - I just ain't got either the inclination or the space on the rig to carry 10 of those big b*stards around with me.

my loadout = 3x430rnd hi-cap & 1x50rnd low-cap (for the pictures )

ED E

extremetaz wrote: »

clearly none of you use a G36.... :rolleyes:

Much as I would very much prefer to use midcaps - I just ain't got either the inclination or the space on the rig to carry 10 of those big b*stards around with me.

my loadout = 3x430rnd hi-cap & 1x50rnd low-cap (for the pictures )

Whey, havent seen you on here in ages.

Thats a good point. Even if I could get UMP midcaps how the hell would I carry them. Could take maye three but three mids aint that much.

Puding

but you're not really able to impose that kinda thing on some people, since some people just wanna shoot, a lot, all the time, and wouldnt be having fun otherwise

i have to agree and disagree with this, I don’t think you can impose restrictions on players unless you make these restrictions known to players before the day be that an event or a normal weekend skirmish day, but if the style of play and restrictions are know in advance there is nothing wrong with a site dictating game play style (that is after all what the site is for, i know its harder with airsoft as it is in Ireland at the moment but in the end people would just go to a site that runs the style of play they wish to play)

johnboyire

i would normally carry high caps, sometimes i would mix high and mid caps

high caps do have their benifits, they are faster to reload and sometimes when players are slow putting their hands up when hit a steady stream of bb's can "encourage" them to reach for the sky

mid caps and night games would seem to be a great mix due to the lack of noise and because i havent heard of people going through huge ammounts of ammo in these games

NakedDex

vtec wrote: »

theres people out their with box mags on subby killers!,

That kind of thing should be banned outright. Hicaps are one thing, box mags on assault rifles and smg's is just a joke and waste of time to try to play against.
I'm not a fan if hicaps at all. I hate just about every aspect of them, but I do believe they have a purpose among beginners. A pair of hicaps is enough for most peoples first couple of skirmishes. I use midcaps a fair bit but I mainly use locaps. I prefer the restricted ammo counts. I'm looking into getting some realcaps for milsim use in the next few days.

I don't believe using mids would leave you outgunned though. I've been using them for some time now and never had a complaint. I find most highcappers can fall into relying on their larger ammo quantity and therefore tend to hold the trigger that bit longer. Having less ammo makes you consider each shot a bit more. I've often drawn out highcappers by standing at the edge of their range until they run dry (works more often than you think).

But boxmags on anything other than "proper" support guns should just not be allowed.

bullets

I dont like the rattle of Hi-Caps I think that
Hi-Cap Magazines should be made using the same principle
as the P90 Hi-Cap Magazine.
(With that said mine keeps jamming every few rounds)

Where the magazine plate under spring pressure pushes the BB's together
so as the mag empties they dont rattle. Someone else may be able to
explain better how the mag works. Pretty nifty idea.

I'f I played I would prefer Midcaps. I would not like the idea of walking a string
of BB's to a target. I would also prefer firing in semi or maybe a 3 round burst rather
than full auto. Full auto is fun but for a skirmish it would not be about how many BB's
my Magazine could hold but rather how the user would fire them. I think using midcaps
would probably make people aim and fire and learn to conserve ammo rather than
being lazy and keep their finger on the trigger spraying and praying.

~B

Tigger

bullets wrote: »

I dont like the rattle of Hi-Caps I think that
Hi-Cap Magazines should be made using the same principle
as the P90 Hi-Cap Magazine.
(With that said mine keeps jamming every few rounds)~B

what bbs are you using in it ?

Masada

NakedDex wrote: »

I've often drawn out highcappers by standing at the edge of their range until they run dry (works more often than you think).

I tend to use that as a tactic with silly people though,
I'll fire on them a few times and then shout to my other team mates miles away "lads, throw me a mag, im out!" and then the guy thinks.. "Aha! have ya now ya big eejit!"

then i riddle em with my abundance of ammunition.,

Lomarticus

Both of my AEGs use G36 mags and I honestly couldn't play without Hi-caps.
I just can't carry enough mid-caps on my kit as the mags don't fit anywhere other than the magwell .

I like the idea of being capable of doing support with the hi-caps if the team needs it but I don't think I've ever used more than two-thirds of a hi-cap in our mil-sim games anyway.

Bottom line for me is that it's nice to have hi-caps as long as you use them sensibly and never use them to ruin the game for others.

kevteljeur

I've been using 1 hi-cap and 5 mid-caps with my G36C for the last few months; but the hi-cap is only because I have a stack of rough bbs that I've been trying to use up which don't feed in mid-caps. And with my AUG now being my main AEG, I'll have to wait a week before my AUG mid-caps get here, so it'll be 2 hi-caps until then, out of neccessity. Other than that, I'm absolutely a fan of mid-caps, personally, practically and from a game-balance perspective.

There's always the realism/having fun aspect to the debate, but I'd much rather a balanced game than a fun game of bb-hosing; this is why I like airsoft, not paintball. A support weapon is just that, and it carries the penalty of being much heavier. If we can have a light rifle with 3k rounds and very high ROF, it completely distorts game play because it is an enormous advantage over someone with a more realistic set of mid-caps. I'm not talking about an anally-retentive degree of milsim realism, just game limits on what people take with them into a game. Even with 1J limits you can still give yourself a technical advantage over other players through ammo supply.

I imagine that over time, this will become more of a hard limit for team games, and running around with a c-mag or box-mag on anything other than a SAW or LMG will be the mark of the beginner, and will be disallowed in more serious games.

Incidentally, this very thread topic came up here many months ago, with some spirited discussion particularly from Dex.

The Master

I use high caps in my G3. Not that I'm a spray and pray player
just becuase all the available mid caps for it are brutal
even TM's own 70rd mid caps are dire.

NakedDex

Yeah vtec, but you riddle them. I hit them once, maybe twice. There's not much sweeter in a game than watching a guy empty 200 rounds at you and then hitting him with one single shot. It's oddly gratifying. Less is more, as they say. Then again you're rarely not grinning out there anyway!

Kev: yeah I promise not to get as worked up this time! And no more sales as a result of my posts!

Puding

as the P90 Hi-Cap Magazine.
(With that said mine keeps jamming every few rounds)

The earlier p90 hi caps have more feeding problems than the new versions, also there are a number of things that you can do to improve feeding, one of the best things is to add a small wedge to the plate that pushes the bbs, this stops the plate getting stuck, i can fire a full hi cap off without and stoppage 9 out of 10 times.

kevteljeur

Lomarticus wrote: »

Both of my AEGs use G36 mags and I honestly couldn't play without Hi-caps.
You just can't carry enough mid-caps as the mags don't fit anywhere other than the magwell .

I like the idea of being capable of doing support with the hi-caps if the team needs it but I don't think I've ever used more than two-thirds of a hi-cap in our mil-sim games anyway.

Bottom line for me is that it's nice to have hi-caps as long as you use them sensibly and never use them to ruin the game for others.

I have to completely disagree with you there; they are big, but I generally have 2 clipped together on the gun, 4 on my person (although I'll admit, they can be a pain since most pouches are designed for STANAG mags). Stuff like this is going to encourage people to get jackets and harnesses which suit their equipment better.

weeder

takes longer to wind a hi cap then to put in a mid, glad that my m4 i caps only need 1 wind, that said i havent got around to buying mids and and i enjoyed the game a lot the day i did use them

Stercus Accidit

Thread needs a poll please.


I use mids only now, can't stand;

rattling,
winding,
NOT reloading.

And this argument that a hi-cap has more bbs ready to fire, uh, usually not.
You'll get 30-50 shots then you have to wind, thats not cool, I never saw rambo fiddling with his mag mid gun fight.
My mids have 100 bbs ready to go instantly, and when I'm out, i pop in a new one, its fun, beats the sh1t out of the index finger shuffle at the base of the mag.

Also, I like to fill my vest realistically, ak hi-caps hold 500bb each, I'd have 4000 rounds, not ready to go mind, ready to wind and wind and wind....

One thing though, there isnt enough time often given to reload mids, forcing alot of players to fall back on a makes-baby-jesus-cry-cap.

kdouglas

Hivemind187 wrote: »

Although it does allow you the unfair advantage of being able to hold the trigger down for 300 rounds

True, but I still don't. When I see/hear someone firing off a whole mag in full auto it just makes me think they are either a newb or just dont really have much of a concept of good gameplay.

Fallschirmjager wrote: »

i would be a mid capper. altho i recently got new acu interceptor armour with the shoulder guards and true to the original it is ridiculous how many molle pouches you can get. so i can carry 12 mags, 6 40mm nades and 2 pouches for gas and bb reloading,and ammo for a pistol and thats just the front panels...so i guess i am a walking hi cap...emphasis on walking. you do sweat like a pervert in a barney suit however...i can now understand why the newer ops combat shirts are all the rage.

as KD said, there is a lot of fun in the 'oh s**t' moment when you realise you are out and have to reload...

i would like one of those auto loaders tho...did anyone ever get one of these and review them?

Yea, I got 6 of them in that bulk order, haven't really used mine that much, mainly at the gathering 2, but found it to be very useful for loading 10 midcaps without cramping up my hand.

vtec wrote: »

I carry 4-5hicaps and the same amount of mids., Id love to be ale to use only midcaps but you'd simply be outgunned. theres people out their with box mags on subby killers! and some people carry a lot more hicaps than others, for one man to play in a game like that he'd need a awful lot of midcaps to stand a chance.,

That's what I meant by an unfair game, m4 box mags should be banned, spray and pray is not my style at all. Pick your target and do some aiming. Box mags on support guns only please

Puding

Thread needs a poll please.

I tryed to stay awqay form a poll as its normaly a yes or no answer where as I wanted depate on both types of mag and there use in games and gameplay, I do think there is a use for both types not a simple hi caps are bad/mid caps are a waste of time.

Rhinocharge

Lets be honest, it's all down to personal choice.
Those whom want realism use low caps.
Those whom want realism without the 2.5-3 second burst use mid caps.
Those whom want hi-cap, just want fun or have been caught short before.

Personally I use all types. Ask any serving soldier & he'll tell you if they could carry higher capacity magazines without the increase in weight they'd do it. You can never have enough ammo.

Whether it be low, mid or hi capacity. It should be your choice.
Drum magazines could be used as light support guns.
Anyone whom doesn't agree, can get stuffed!!!!!!!

Rhinocharge

Motosam wrote: »

I never saw rambo fiddling with his mag mid gun fight.quote]

That's cause they edited it!!

ED E

weeder wrote: »

takes longer to wind a hi cap then to put in a mid, glad that my m4 i caps only need 1 wind, that said i havent got around to buying mids and and i enjoyed the game a lot the day i did use them

I get ~200 rnds out of an Aug mag on one wind. And wind in between bursts man. Also, with fumbling to put the empty in a dump and withdrawing and slapping a new one in, somebody with quick fingers is gonna be just as quick.(Bar an mp5, they're fiddly)

Rhinocharge

kdouglas wrote: »

Yea, I got 6 of them in that bulk order, haven't really used mine that much, mainly at the gathering 2, but found it to be very useful for loading 10 midcaps without cramping up my hand.:)

Hand cramps hmm, we all know the answer to solving that!!

Puding

Personally I use all types. Ask any serving soldier & he'll tell you if they could carry higher capacity magazines without the increase in weight they'd do it. You can never have enough ammo.

Whether it be low, mid or hi capacity. It should be your choice.
Drum magazines could be used as light support guns.
Anyone whom doesn't agree, can get stuffed!!!!!!!

and in the real world you do not fight with fair team with rules and regen, you normaly attack in overwelming fource, and the game normaly start with a nice artillary or airstrike

you could imagine in the real world, ''hay guys give use one of your guys teams are not fair''

The Master

Motosam wrote: »

I never saw rambo fiddling with his mag mid gun fight.

Rambo never changed mags
Belt fed FTW:D

NakedDex

Lethal_Bullet wrote: »

I get ~200 rnds out of an Aug mag on one wind. And wind in between bursts man. Also, with fumbling to put the empty in a dump and withdrawing and slapping a new one in, somebody with quick fingers is gonna be just as quick.(Bar an mp5, they're fiddly)

It depends on how you do it. Someone who has set up their rig comfortably will be far quicker than somone winding. And even high caps need to be put into a dump pouch eventually so it's no real advantage. The nice thing about mids/lows/reals is you can just drop them without worrying about breaking them if you're in a hurry to reload. Drop a hicap and you'll likely destroy the reasonably delicate clockwork. Drop a mid and you might get it dirty, that's about it.

MP5's are absurdly easy to reload, maybe you're just doing it awkwardly.

Killinator

Theres always people in a situation where they cant get mid caps for their gun, and have to use high-caps, i dont mind using high caps, i dont use it for a support style role, just becasue you have a high-cap dosnt mean you have to lay 20-30 second bursts down

Puding

MP5's are desperately easy to reload, maybe you're just doing it awkwardly.

the mp5 is also a lot easyer to use mid caps with, i can fit 3 mp5 100rd midcaps in the space one of my ak74 mid caps takes up

bullets

Tigger wrote: »

what bbs are you using in it ?

Excel I think!
Someone mentioned someplace that the Hi Cap mag for the P90
was picky about the brand?

~B

ED E

NakedDex wrote: »

MP5's are absurdly easy to reload, maybe you're just doing it awkwardly.

I meant to wind, the dial is smaller.

Rhinocharge

Puding wrote: »

and in the real world you do not fight with fair team with rules and regen, you normaly attack in overwelming fource, and the game normaly start with a nice artillary or airstrike

you could imagine in the real world, ''hay guys give use one of your guys teams are not fair''

So why should some change their choice of magazine, because others don't agree. Personal choice. You like it, you hate it. Who cares?

Puding

So why should some change their choice of magazine, because others don't agree. Personal choice. You like it, you hate it. Who cares?

Well all my comments have been balanced and i can rather remeber one of most post saying that each type has it place. Its a disccusion that is all, a discussion about hi cap and mid cap and game play, im of the view that the sites are devloping a differant game styles will be avaliable for differant types of play, want spray and pray and hi caps go to site a want mil sim and high cap restrictions go to site b.

Sorry if you did not get my comment in regard to your post, but im not going to spend the time explaining it to you.

Rhinocharge

Puding wrote: »

Well all my comments have been balanced and i can rather remeber one of most post saying that each type has it place, sorry if you did not get my comment in regard to your post, but im not going to spend the time explaining it to you.

No need to apologise Puding. It's a generic answer.

NakedDex

Choice of mags is fine, it's up to the person. But I feel midcaps are the bed compromise between everything. Sprayers get 120 or so rounds without having to reload, milsim/scenario gamers get their more realistic ammo and the chance to reload and mids are cheap and almost never fail so they're great for people on a budget and for newer players.

The only thing I feel should be disallowed is box mags/c-mags on anything that isn't a proper designated support gun. People who use them create an incredibly unfair advantage for themselves, even against people using hicaps. The trade off for being able to carry huge quantities of ammo in an auto-winding box is having a heavy/clumsy/lumbering gun. An assault rifle is not a support gun, and the inclusion of a box mag does not make it one. I have no qualms with coming against an M249 or MG36 etc with a box mag.
Ban the wannabe fsg's, that's my opinion, and it's shared by a lot more people.

Rhinocharge

NakedDex wrote: »

Choice of mags is fine, it's up to the person. But I feel midcaps are the bed compromise between everything. Sprayers get 120 or so rounds without having to reload, milsim/scenario gamers get their more realistic ammo and the chance to reload and mids are cheap and almost never fail so they're great for people on a budget and for newer players.

The only thing I feel should be disallowed is box mags/c-mags on anything that isn't a proper designated support gun. People who use them create an incredibly unfair advantage for themselves, even against people using hicaps. The trade off for being able to carry huge quantities of ammo in an auto-winding box is having a heavy/clumsy/lumbering gun. An assault rifle is not a support gun, and the inclusion of a box mag does not make it one. I have no qualms with coming against an M249 or MG36 etc with a box mag.
Ban the wannabe fsg's, that's my opinion, and it's shared by a lot more people.

Agreed, however there are individuals out there whom are unable to carry a 10lb mmg. Where by a M15 using Hi-cap 300 rd mags, add a bipod & support strap & the 5lbs is exceptable. I'd see this as a lmg, not as popular today as they once were. Not everyone is a strong as others.

Mind you a 2,000 rd drum mag on a Mp5 is nuts!!

SniperSight

Motosam wrote: »

I never saw rambo fiddling with his mag mid gun fight.

That said you don't see too many people going bare chested, full-auto from the hip with an M-60!!:p:p:p
I would'nt be too quick to copy Rambo!!:p


Seriously though, I use a mix of both HI and Mid caps. I have a slight preference for Hi-Caps although I do hate the rattle, as I love to sneak around(SCOPE can testify to this!!:))

NakedDex

Rhinocharge wrote: »

Agreed, however there are individuals out there whom are unable to carry a 10lb mmg. Where by a M15 using Hi-cap 300 rd mags, add a bipod & support strap & the 5lbs is exceptable. I'd see this as a lmg, not as popular today as they once were. Not everyone is a strong as others.

Mind you a 2,000 rd drum mag on a Mp5 is nuts!!

If you can't carry a support gun, don't use a support gun. Use an assault rifle and some magazines like everyone else. The M249 is the LMG of choice both among many armies and airsofters. The M240B would be one of the more common MMG's and the M60 would be the most popular HMG. If someone wants to use an LMG, the options are limited to the M249, the MG36 (which you'll have to make yourself) or the L85 LSW (which will cost you a fortune). There are, of course, other options, but they get progressively rarer and/or more expensive. Many of the don't even take box mags, merely extended mags (L85 LSW being one, Steyr LSG being another).
My point is, an assault rifle or smg with a box mag is no more an LMG than a Glock 18c with an extended mag. It's giving a hugely unfair advantage against people who use any other gun. Even an M60 wouldn't last long against a tuned up M4 with a C-mag because the M4 user can actually run and dive and hide etc where the M60 would have to stay put or move slower. Surely that can't be seen as fair?