The M50 Barrier Free Tolling Thread

wet-paint

So does anyone actually know if or how rental cars or foreign regs are charged?

Our man in Havana

Foreign regs will get away free as usual.

cormie

Bond-007 wrote: »

Foreign regs will get away free as usual.

And rightly so, it's stressful enough driving in another country which you don't know without having to know about toll charges that you would have to go online and pay for within x amount of time.

wet-paint

Does anyone know if a GPS will avoid this toll if the avoid toll roads option is selected?

Our man in Havana

No idea, but the avoiding route is miles and miles longer and complicated.

L1011

wet-paint wrote: »

Does anyone know if a GPS will avoid this toll if the avoid toll roads option is selected?

This is only replacing the Westlink, and every 'avoid toll' option I've seen to date does this.

bazz26

Sorry folks for going a little off topic but I am heading to Dublin airport on Saturday via the M50. Just wondering if the Westlink toll is still €2 each way? I'm not around that way very often.

L1011

bazz26 wrote: »

Sorry folks for going a little off topic but I am heading to Dublin airport on Saturday via the M50. Just wondering if the Westlink toll is still €2 each way? I'm not around that way very often.

Yes.

bazz26

MYOB wrote: »

Yes.

Cheers.

samo

Could anyone answer me what is probably a very stupid question! Was having a conversation about this with someonne the other day and still no clearer.

If you join the M50 for example at the N4 junction beyond the current toll plaza and travel southbound (eg your journey does not go through the existing toll point) are you liable for the toll fee from Aug 31st ? The person I was talking to reckons there will be toll gantry's on each joining slip road from that date

cormie

The toll is for the bridge I think, so if you do that you wont be using the bridge, so I hope wont be charged?

Our man in Havana

You are only charged it you travel between junctions 6 and 7 in either direction.

Darando

Any idea how many vehicles can be registered per "video registration" account?? Thinking about signing up all the family cars to a single account. (not very freq users but users all the same!)

Rowley Birkin QC

wet-paint wrote: »

So does anyone actually know if or how rental cars or foreign regs are charged?

Or motorbikes for that matter?

The camera reads the plate as you pull away perhaps?

Our man in Havana

Apparently motorbikes will be exempt.

Steve

Yep, motorbikes are free.

Seth Brundle

samo wrote: »

Could anyone answer me what is probably a very stupid question! Was having a conversation about this with someonne the other day and still no clearer.

If you join the M50 for example at the N4 junction beyond the current toll plaza and travel southbound (eg your journey does not go through the existing toll point) are you liable for the toll fee from Aug 31st ? The person I was talking to reckons there will be toll gantry's on each joining slip road from that date

Currently the plan is for the M50 to be tolled at the current location (i.e. for those travelling between the N3 and N4 interchanges).
However, don't be surprised to see plans resurface to toll the entire motorway once the upgrade is completed.

Seth Brundle

Firms can no longer reclaim VAT on M50 tolls
ELAINE EDWARDS

VEHICLE LEASING companies have said they are facing huge increases in their costs due to the introduction of the new barrier-free tolling system on Dublin's M50 motorway as they will no longer be able to reclaim VAT on tolls, writes Elaine Edwards .

The National Roads Authority, which will operate the new eFlow toll-free system from August 30th, confirmed yesterday that public sector tolls do not attract VAT. Previously, when the tolling system was operated by NTR plc, the toll charge on the West Link had a 21 per cent VAT element built in. Companies were allowed to reclaim this element from Revenue as a legitimate business expense.

However, the NRA confirmed that since August 1st, when it took over the operation of the tolls from NTR, there is no VAT applicable on tolls. The basic toll charge of €2 will remain the same, but there is no VAT element.

President of the Vehicle Leasing Association of Ireland John Wallace said: "In effect, that's a 21 per cent increase in cost for a business user straight away."

"The rates remain the same - there are some changes for some of the axle weights etc - but for passenger cars the charge is remaining at €2 but it's now exempt from VAT. It sort of slipped through and no one pointed it out. Of course, they [the NRA] wouldn't have pointed it out because it's not in their interest. This whole thing is just a fiasco. It's taxes by stealth."

The owner of a computer business with about 40 vehicles and offices in the North, in Dublin and elsewhere in Ireland, told The Irish Times he reclaimed between €300 and €500 each month in VAT from toll charges alone. The majority of that amount was due to tolls on the M50, the businessman said.

"Like everybody else, we are looking at how we are going to manage this barrier-free tolling and I was just looking at the website today and discovered that to register as a business user, the VAT rate is now 0 per cent. But the cost hasn't dropped to correspond to that. So whoever is getting it, is now getting it all."

"I reckon it could be €300 to €500 a month just from the VAT point of view. I've only seen that today."

The NRA estimates that approximately 25-30 per cent of the 100,000 or so vehicles using the M50 toll bridge each day are fleet or company vehicles, although many would be registered to rental firms who can reclaim tolls from their customers.

NRA project manager for eFlow, Cathal Masterson, said: "We have kept the overall amount of the toll for cars the same, but no VAT is applied. People such as commercial entities, who could have reclaimed the VAT, under the old scheme, won't be able to do so now."

Mr Masterson conceded this would effectively result in an immediate increase in cost for business users. The NRA took control of the toll bridge this month after buying out the NTR contract for €488 million.

© 2008 The Irish Times

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/motors/2008/0813/1218477437745.html

Steve

Did I read that right?

Previously the €2 toll included 21% VAT meaning the toll was €1.65 + VAT

Now that VAT is no longer applicable, have they just given themselves a 21% increase? - apart from the non-tag prices..

:mad::mad::mad::mad:

Seth Brundle

It seems like that but it couldn't be because we were told that the tolls would not be increasing!
:rolleyes:

galwaytt

kbannon wrote: »

It seems like that but it couldn't be because we were told that the tolls would not be increasing!
:rolleyes:

time for a complaint to the Financial Services Regulator and Ombudsman, oh, and NSAI (false advertising?)

Registration no's required for tags - what's the point in that ? If the tag 'beeps' or whatever, once it goes through, what does it matter which of your cars you used.

For classic car owners, two thoughts: if you bring our your Sunday Special...........do you bring your tag.
Oh, and if it's 30+ yrs old............should it not be free/reduced ?? :P

Our man in Havana

Registration no's required for tags - what's the point in that ? If the tag 'beeps' or whatever, once it goes through, what does it matter which of your cars you used.

They are trying catch the artic owner who uses his car's tag in the truck to save money.

samo

kbannon wrote: »

Currently the plan is for the M50 to be tolled at the current location (i.e. for those travelling between the N3 and N4 interchanges).
However, don't be surprised to see plans resurface to toll the entire motorway once the upgrade is completed.

Thanks for that, good to know I dont have to totally avoid the M50 from here on in!

Furp

I have been using the eazy pass tags for the past couple of years on our two cars, never had to pay for the tags, and registered two cars on the one account, its linked to my laser card at the moment but can just as easily be through credit card or bank account. Never had any problems with it and anytime I went through other tolls around the country it always worked ,it is great not having to fumble with change.

I noticed that someone mentioned about reading reg plates when they pulled away, some people do not realize that there will be no slowdown at the toll you will just pass a couple of gantry's at 100kph that record the reg and tag.(whatever happened to the 120kph limit)

Also I found some info on the the removal of the toll booths and building its going to take 4 WEEKS:eek:

http://www.aaroadwatch.ie/news/story.asp?ID=1434

M50 Barrier Free Tolling 30th August 2008

Updated: 14/08/2008 10:42:34

M50 Barrier Free Tolling will commence 30th August 2008. All other toll plazas in the country will keep the barriers.

For all details on the different payment options and full information see the AA Ireland Information Desk. Click here for information desk

REMOVING THE WEST LINK TOLL PLAZA: Works to remove the West Link toll plaza will begin on the 30th August and are likely to take most of September to complete. • The initial plans suggest that during the first few days, the outer 3 lanes will be closed in each direction, leaving the four lanes closest to the building open to traffic. • During that time, it is expected that the outer 3 lanes will have their booths, plinths, services and overhead canopy removed and a temporary surface will be placed on the road.

• Once this is complete it is planned that traffic will use the outer 3 lanes and the four inner lanes will be closed in each direction. As all barriers and height restrictions will have been removed, any type of vehicle can use any lane. • It is hoped that there will be minimal impact on traffic as there will be no barriers in place during all demolition works. • Once the M50 toll barriers are lifted and all the M50 upgrade works are fully complete in 2010, the speed limit on the full stretch of the M50 will revert back to the appropriate National Speed Limit.

jimmycrackcorm

MYOB wrote: »

None of them *can* allow it.

There is no way the system can tell which car a tag is in without the tag being matched to a registration number. Using an unmatched tag will cause a charge on the tag and to the cars registration plate. Less than ideal but there is no way around this.

I'm at a loss to understand why a tag cannot have a number of valid registrations against it instead of just one.

Steve

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

I'm at a loss to understand why a tag cannot have a number of valid registrations against it instead of just one.

The tag reader will not be able to determine which vehicle any particular tag is in because it's RF based.
The ANPR will pick up a plate and at the same time the RFID will read a tag. Unless it knows which reg the tag belongs to, it cannot charge the toll. There will probably be one wide area RFID reader covering all lanes rather than the present low power reader which only reads the tag when the vehicle is stopped beside it (at the toll booth).

Also consider what would happen if a tag was registered to two cars and both went through the toll at the same time - who gets the tag charge and who gets the ANPR charge?

Stef1979

maybe im slow but once the account is charged twice what difference does it make...
why do they need to know which reg it is going through once they get their money??
Ive used a tag system in new york where it doesnt matter what car goes through mine, yours, a rental as long as the tag is read and the account is charged....

luckat

Kbannon, thanks for directing me over here - I googled m50 toll plaza boards.ie and didn't find this thread, by the way.

Reposting:

I shrugged and went to sign up for the tag just now - "it's free!" and discovered they want €30 in advance against future payments, plus €1 a month for the privilege of letting them charge me automatically.

How did the government agree to this? What exactly are all these €1 payments paying *for*? After all, they're getting their toll, and the tag, once set up, certainly doesn't cost them €12 per year per person to administer.

I use the M50 about once a month, no, twice, once each way when I go to the airport.

Does the tag also apply to other toll roads, or only to the M50, by the way?

Seth Brundle

The government signed up to thei because they don't care what goes on as long as they make loads of money.
As for the toll itself, there is no cash option, you must pre pay (by getting a tag) or else pay by telephone/internet/etc.
Most tags IIRC work on other toll roads here but double check with the tag provider

luckat

All right, I don't understand how we, as citizens, let the government allow us to be charged these fees.

How many vehicles go through the barriers in a month? Not journeys, now, but individual vehicles, whose owners would each be paying this €12 per year fee?

It reminds me of the scene in some 1980s film where a pay clerk sets the computer to pay a quarter of a cent from every paycheck into his account, and gets a paycheck for several million dollars.

It seems like a small amount - heck, who's going to miss €12 a year? - but it's an unfair extra charge, especially hitting those of us (many of us) who use the M50 only for occasional journeys.