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Only One National Road Project to Start in 2009

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    #62
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,736 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    crocro wrote: »
    Are all the PPP roads to be tolled?

    The intention for the next scheme is 'shadow tolling' where the state pays the tolls based on traffic usage - obviously the toll they pay will be less than that which a driver would pay at the gates due to no VAT, and no collection costs on the part of the concessionaire.

    I wouldn't be surprised to see booths appear on some schemes, but some of them - Newlands X for instance - are definitely not going to have a physical toll.


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    #63
    Chris_533976
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,082 ✭✭✭Chris_533976


    Yeah its shadow tolling, but the government are in a sense making savings because some of these contracts are including maintenance of other parts of the route network.


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    #64
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    Chris_533976 wrote: »
    I only have the anticipated 'final contract award' dates, nothing more than that ATM. Tho one can assume construction will begin soon after.

    1) M17/N18 Gort - Athenry - October 2010
    2) N11 Arklow - Rathnew & N7 Newlands Cross - November 2010

    Also, there is a CHANCE (and DONT quote me on this) that the N6 Galway Outer bypass (whats been approved of it anyway) will be added to the PPP list soon. I've heard rumours on the grapevine. My guess (again DONT quote me on this) is that it would be added to the N7 Newlands / N11 Arklow one.

    Oooof Chris . The PPP projects are 'clustered' to allow equipment transfers etc . Galway is a tad too far away from the Newlands/Arklow one I would have thought .

    And the Galway Bypass is facing a tricky legal challenge ( what's left of it that is) which is in court in a fortnight , the Hands Across the Corrib Ltd and environmentalist, Peter Sweetman cases being heard together.


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    #65
    Chris_533976
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,082 ✭✭✭Chris_533976


    Yeah they're clustered, but only up to a point. N11 Arklow/Rathnew isnt next to Newlands, nor is M11 Enniscorthy close to New Ross. Closer than the former to Galway, granted, but not next door to each other.


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    #66
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    Both pairs are within 25 miles of each other or so .

    I used the phrase clustered as distinct from say contigous or close :D


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    #67
    mysterious
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,133 ✭✭✭mysterious


    So the Castleisland bypass is crackling along now.


    They better put in a compact LILO interchange on the Limerick side. Not another roundabout. There is already three here:mad:

    look at the the Rooskey N4, Nenagh, Cahir N8, Mullingar N4 they put flyover's there... They are of simalar standard to this bypass.

    Even the WS2 lane roads on the N17 have grade separate interchanges on them.


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    #68
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,736 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Rooskey N4 has a roundabout in the middle and the Mullingar M4 is a wide median, motorway grade (bar the Services on it) DC!


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    #69
    mysterious
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,133 ✭✭✭mysterious


    MYOB wrote: »
    Rooskey N4 has a roundabout in the middle and the Mullingar M4 is a wide median, motorway grade (bar the Services on it) DC!

    But it has a LILO interchange ?

    I'm ok with one or two roundabouts on the Castleisland bypass but not three. It defeats the purpose of the bypass It joins two national primary routes from Kerry to the rest of the country. They manage to build interchanges on many WS2 lane roads. Why can't they do it here.


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    #70
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,736 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    mysterious wrote: »
    But it has a LILO interchange ?

    I'm ok with one or two roundabouts on the Castleisland bypass but not three. It defeats the purpose of the bypass It joins two national primary routes from Kerry to the rest of the country. They manage to build interchanges on many WS2 lane roads. Why can't they do it here.

    Don't think so? Looking at the OSI Discovery maps for the area which are updated for it (amazingly!) and it looks like the southern terminal and midway RAB are the only ones there.

    The N4 Drumsna/Jamestown scheme from much earlier is just north of this and is WS2 with a GSJ on it. LILO one side, on/off ramps the other. Its the most hodgepog GSJ I've ever seen, theres a roundabout on the side with the ramps and all... but it does its job, the mainline is uninterrupted - except by Guards!


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    #71
    mysterious
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,133 ✭✭✭mysterious


    MYOB wrote: »
    Don't think so? Looking at the OSI Discovery maps for the area which are updated for it (amazingly!) and it looks like the southern terminal and midway RAB are the only ones there.

    The N4 Drumsna/Jamestown scheme from much earlier is just north of this and is WS2 with a GSJ on it. LILO one side, on/off ramps the other. Its the most hodgepog GSJ I've ever seen, theres a roundabout on the side with the ramps and all... but it does its job, the mainline is uninterrupted - except by Guards!


    Well that's what I'm asking to be on the Castleisland bypass not three roundabouts ffs.

    I am beginning to hate these things. So many of them makes journeys like a merry go around, its making me sick, physically and mentally.


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    #72
    mysterious
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,133 ✭✭✭mysterious


    untitled.jpg


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    #73
    KevR
    Registered Users Posts: 3,110 ✭✭✭KevR


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    Oooof Chris . The PPP projects are 'clustered' to allow equipment transfers etc . Galway is a tad too far away from the Newlands/Arklow one I would have thought .

    And the Galway Bypass is facing a tricky legal challenge ( what's left of it that is) which is in court in a fortnight , the Hands Across the Corrib Ltd and environmentalist, Peter Sweetman cases being heard together.

    I cannot believe that they are getting a court hearing for this. The vast majority of people in Galway and surrounding areas are in favour of the bypass. Do we live in a democracy or not? At the moment it seems a few people who object to things can dictate to the vast majority the quality of life they will have.

    :mad:


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    #74
    Chris_533976
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,082 ✭✭✭Chris_533976


    I'm just glad that so far the environmental lobby (etc) have only concentrated on the M3 and the Galway bypass. If things were like they are in England, with barely anything being built, we'd be right up **** creek.

    Lets face it, the A303 at Stonehenge or the need for a bypass of Lyndhurst makes our Adares and Claregalways look like minor delays.


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    #75
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    The CIF tells us no projects are scheduled at all now.

    http://www.rte.ie/business/2009/0701/construction.html
    Mr Parlon said the National Roads Authority started 216 kilometres of new roads in 2007. In 2008, the figure was 169km, but in 2009, he said, this would fall to 5.5km of motorway. As of now, there are no plans to start any new roads in 2010, Mr Parlon said.

    That includes PPPs , even Newlands and Arklow and of course the Galway Bypass. Where did he find 5.5km of Motorway ? Surely he means Castleisland ??


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    #76
    Tech3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,010 ✭✭✭Tech3


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    The CIF tells us no projects are scheduled at all now.

    That includes PPPs , even Newlands and Arklow and of course the Galway Bypass. Where did he find 5.5km of Motorway ? Surely he means Castleisland ??

    How can they come out with a statement like that saying no projects are going ahead next year when the NRA have PPP's planned to start at the end of 2010. I'm slowly beginning to doubt whether any of these will ever go ahead in the next few years.

    Yeah the Castleisland Bypass is 5.5km overall in length some of it 2+2 but not motorway. They never do their research always incorrect statements about every road project I ever see in the media.

    This is basically the construction industry looking for a bailout. In fairness what does he expect? The government cant afford any more capital projects after the inter urbans. If there is no funding for PPP in the coming years then thats the end of our road building for a long time.


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    #77
    Chris_533976
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,082 ✭✭✭Chris_533976


    The original PPP plans were for Newlands/Arklow-Rathnew and Gort - Tuam to start in late 2010. The others were 2011 (and maybe a bit later for the two M20 ones). These things tend to slip, but god know whether they actually will start with all thats going on. If the IMF pay a visit (getting more and more likely as the current lot cant sort things out), then they definately wont start. Hopefully all the current stuff will be done by then incase the IMF insist on a stop of current contracts.


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    #78
    Irish and Proud
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,735 ✭✭✭Irish and Proud


    Chris_533976 wrote: »
    The original PPP plans were for Newlands/Arklow-Rathnew and Gort - Tuam to start in late 2010. The others were 2011 (and maybe a bit later for the two M20 ones). These things tend to slip, but god know whether they actually will start with all thats going on. If the IMF pay a visit (getting more and more likely as the current lot cant sort things out), then they definately wont start. Hopefully all the current stuff will be done by then incase the IMF insist on a stop of current contracts.

    Don't know about that Chris...

    If the IMF are called in, my guess is that they will be looking at the current expenditure side of things like health, social welfare, the size of the public service etc. Roads IMO would be the last thing they'd stop unless there was absolutely no economic benefit attached. For example, take the N7 Naas Bypass (opened 1983) - it was said to have paid for itself within 10 years - that's an average of 10% pa - even through the mid 1980's and early 1990's. Basically, roads stimulate economies and yield positive returns, while public services like health would be seen as dead money in strict economic terms. Obviously, the above position would be seen as very right wing, but my guess is the that people's welfare would not top the IMF's list of priorities. In fact, they may even tell us to spend more on roads and ports and less on everything else including rail.

    However, we would just have to wait and see...

    Regards!


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