Torres getting subbed off!

Evil_Clown

I was pretty amazed when Torres got subbed last night I though he was playing very well. Guiza did come on and get the goal but Torres would probably have finished that chance aswell. I just think Aragones is a little strange for substitutions but it is working out for him so far. He took Xavi off last night after he had scored which I thought was equally strange.

As for the other argument of swapping Torres for Ronaldo etc etc. This will just go around in circles.
most utd fans would not swap Ronaldo for Torres
most liverpool fans would not swap Torres for Ronaldo
most arsenal fans would not swap Fabregas for Ronaldo etc etc

Mr Alan

Mr Alan wrote: »

Of course you can say watever you want, but please dont make stuff up. Thats wat pisses me off.



I dont expect a love in, but people also shouldnt expect to make stuff up without being told to **** off.



Presuming this was the incident when Torres and the defender were tusselling in the russian penalty area, and the russian lad fell on the back of Torres legs? how are you meant to go down when a 6ft plus blokes falls into the back of your legs.

hardly a dive.



Pretty sure as the guy was holding him fouling him, he also clipped his heals.

Again, still awaiting an instance when he dived, considering he has been doing it all tournament, there should be no shortage.

Al i havent Sky + the games and taken notes on minute by minute analysis and created a "Torres' dives" dossier but Torres and Silva were 2 I noticed who go down easy and stay down easy. But since my dossier hasnt been put together Im gonna bow out and retract my previous statement and say no, he never dives, ever, and he doesnt sulk, he's played the whole tournament with a big smile on his face, and its refreshing to see a player acknowledge his coach and accept being sacrificed for the team when subbed rather than sulk.......

Evil_Clown

Evil_Clown wrote: »

I was pretty amazed when Torres got subbed last night I though he was playing very well. Guiza did come on and get the goal but Torres would probably have finished that chance aswell. I just think Aragones is a little strange for substitutions but it is working out for him so far. He took Xavi off last night after he had scored which I thought was equally strange.

As for the other argument of swapping Torres for Ronaldo etc etc. This will just go around in circles.
most utd fans would not swap Ronaldo for Torres
most liverpool fans would not swap Torres for Ronaldo
most arsenal fans would not swap Fabregas for Ronaldo etc etc

Torres would definitely have scored Guiza's chane, no doubt about it. But the chances he had when he was on, he missed. Im trying not to deal in the hypothetical though.


And absolutely, but I for one never brought that up. People seem to have misunderstood my point about the "superstars" thing. it was a criticism of him in Spain that he was the big dog at Athletico and everything was about him, same at Liverpool, all their attacks are through him, whereas Spain are not all about Torres. This wasnt a dig at Liverpools play, every team needs a linchpin. My point was about how Torres performs when hes not the main man.

Boggles

Evil_Clown wrote: »

most arsenal fans would not swap Fabregas for Ronaldo etc etc

TBH Fabregas is probably the only player I would swap Ronaldo for.

Mr Alan

I thought Gerrard was our main man?

Torres is now?

The same criticisms were leveled at Gerrard, needs to the "the man", team set up for him, big fish etc etc

so does that mean he has now garnered all your approval cause he was still brilliant despite not being the "main man"?

Mr Alan

Mr Alan wrote: »

I thought Gerrard was our main man?

Torres is now?

The same criticisms were leveled at Gerrard, needs to the "the man", team set up for him, big fish etc etc

so does that mean he has now garnered all your approval cause he was still brilliant despite not being the "main man"?

Gerrard and Torres are your main men.....did i not already say that? Are u denying Torres aint the big dog?

The Liverpool team is built around that partnership. He is obviously the main man, the whole style of play is designed to get the ball to him as often as possible and/or use his pace to get in behind defenders and finish. Same way Uniteds attack is built around the Rooney/Tevez/Ronaldo. When playing for Spain its all about quick slick passing rather than constantly getting it to Torres. He's not the main focal point.

U cant deny they are the two stars? How many other big superstars are at Liverpool? Im not talkin excellent players players (Alonso, Agger, Mascherano, Kuyt (who I rate), Babel etc) Im talking about big stars who the team is built around. Same with Athletico. Whereas Spain have the guys I already mentioned. Thats not a criticism, its only right to build teams around players. Its how a player reacts when the team is all about teamwork and passing rather than playing to suit your game. And he;s not the only one. Unlike u guys Im not letting who pays his wages blind my view here...Rooney is the same, ahsnt really produced his best for United as the style isnt built to suit him (that and he doesnt have guys like Tevez and Ronaldo to play off as England dont have a great out and out striker) and hence Rooney is also not at his best at international level. Stop being so defensive.

Gerrard has done well for Engerland in a team full of egos and stars so I dont see that criticism myslef. The big one Ive heard of him is that he cant run a midfield as effectively as some players hence hes better on the right or behind the striker?


Look, im not, and was never, trying to turn this down the Liverpool - United road. And please dont do that. I was merely saying that at Athletico and Liverpool where he's kept his best work, he is/was the main man, whereas for Spain where he is no doubt good but not as good, he;s not the main man. Thats all, no more than that. Only reason I mentioned Gerrard was cos I wasnt gonna say "Torres is the big star" when its obvious as day there are 2.

TBH Liverpool are irrelevent to this discussion. Torres for Liverpool is amazing, thats not in question. What is in question is whether it is justified to substitute him. And I think it is.

Boggles

Mr Alan wrote: »

I thought Gerrard was our main man?

Torres is now?

Rafa has moved him to accomadate Torres, so yes I suppose (Torres) he would be the main man.

Mr Alan wrote: »

so does that mean he has now garnered all your approval cause he was still brilliant despite not being the "main man"?

Very Debatable, he has put in some quality appearances but alot of the time I have watched the Pool, he has been annonymous.

Back to why Torres is subbed alot for Spain, simply answer, he doesn't do the business and in international football managers do not have the patience or slack to be waiting for a striker that "might" score in the 90 minutes.

kryogen

Deleted User wrote: »

Im not saying he has had a terrible tournament either. Sometimes I worry about u lads. the thread is about Torres being subbed, Im merely pointing out that his performances thus far have hardly made him undroppable or unsubstitutable. I mean Iniesta and Xavi have normally been subbed too and for me theyve been equally if not more effective to the team than Torres. But Guiza and Fabregas coming on have done well so I dont see the complaint.

Excellent point, some people just get blinded and need to take up and extreme position, he has not done anything to suggest he should play 90 minutes every game, he is doing a lot of running and it is actually in his best interests to get off and have a rest since he will be playing 6 games in less then 3 weeks. have any of you considered that he might be burnt out by the time the final comes unless he is rested?

no he isnt setting the tournament alight, but he isnt the worst player in the tournament either.

He does deserve to play. he doesnt have a divine right to never be subbed though

nobody is saying hes ****e.



on another note, Gerrards form has dropped since the arrival of Torres Al, alot of Liverpool fans have been willing to admit that. he isnt the only big fish anymore and it seems to affect his game. now this isnt the Liverpool thread so i dont wanna discuss that here ok

raido9

gixerfixer wrote: »

"If you take Torres and Gerrard out of the Liverpool team they would be ordinary"

This is true. They are a very ordinary team with two top class players carrying them.

gixerfixer wrote: »

....this is nonsense.Of course they would FFS.The same as if you took Drogba and Carvalio out of the Chelsea team..the same as if you took Ronaldo and Vidic out of Manchester United team...the same as if you took Fabergas and Adaberor out of the Arsenal team etc.

This is crap, Utd, Chelsea and Arsenal have class practically from 1 to 11 (or more in Utd and Chelsea case). Granted they all have some weak links, but they would not collapse losing their top two players.

Dont compare Liverpool to the big three in England, its insulting.

EDIT: Actually, it looks like Drogba Ronaldo and Adaberor will be leaving this summer. Torres and Gerrard are staying, so we'll get to test your theory somwhat. I guarantee you I know what three clubs will be top three at the end of next season.

ShoulderChip

sure look at how much points chelsea totted up when they were missing most of their starting 11.

pvt.joker

Torres missed a complete sitter when he was on, pulled out of heading it into the net for some reason, instead deciding to hit it with his knee!

imo the way he was playing he would have also messed up the chance that Guiza scored.
I can't see Torres starting on sunday the way he has been playing tbh.

Boggles

raido9 wrote: »

Dont compare Liverpool to the big three in England, its insulting.

:eek:

Jesus Quick, Everyone back to the Safety of the Liverpool Forum!!! :D:D

pvt.joker

raido9 wrote: »

Dont compare Liverpool to the big three in England, its insulting.

+1

United / Chelsea / Arsenal all have far better quality from 1 - 11 , and also strength in depth.

There is only 2 players from Liverpools team I would want playing with United , Gerrard and Torres.

I could easily pick 6-7 from Chelsea/Arsenal.

ShoulderChip

really pvtjoker
it would be beyond alarming if luis didnt play him
do you think gyuza will be the lone striker very unlikely
torres is luis' baby he feels responsible for developing him at athleti
also he rarely changes his mind about his preferred team

pvt.joker

ShoulderChip wrote: »

really pvtjoker
it would be beyond alarming if luis didnt play him
do you think gyuza will be the lone striker very unlikely
torres is luis' baby he feels responsible for developing him at athleti
also he rarely changes his mind about his preferred team

I take your point.
With Villa probably injured, Torres will get his game, but if Villa was fit I believe Torres would have been dropped.

event

ah lads, yiz are getting carried away now, why does it have to turn into a liverpool bashing thread

and id still like an answer as to how torres is limited?

pvt.joker

pvt.joker wrote: »

I take your point.
With Villa probably injured, Torres will get his game, but if Villa was fit I believe Torres would have been dropped.

No chance, he;s consistently picked the same 11 in all games of consequence and thats got him to the final. I dont expect him to change. If Villa were fit Id doubt Fabregas would start. Plus Torres hasnt been bad, he's just been nowhere near his best.

I expect the team on Sunday to be:


Casillas

Ramos-Puyol-Marchena-Capdevilla

Iniesta--Fabregas---Senna--Xavi--Silva

Torres



He may straight swap Guiza for Villa but that gives him no striker for substitution impact so I expect Fabregas TBH.


EDIT: Apologies, didnt see your post after that where you said Torres would play.

gucci

See you all around the same time monday for the "disappointing player of the tournament" thread which will enevitably turn into the same Man U Vs Pool Willy waving thread.

Boggles

event wrote: »

and id still like an answer as to how torres is limited?

AS been stated he is a confidence player, needs to wrapped up in cotton wool and told he is the best.

From what I have seen when he is subbed with Spain, he looks like a petulant child. Hardly a team player is it?

When things are not going his way, which is happening with Spain and more often than not his away performances in the prem league, he does not look the same player.

This is why he is limited. k?

ShoulderChip

Deleted User wrote: »

No chance, he;s consistently picked the same 11 in all games of consequence and thats got him to the final. Dont expect him to change. if Villa were fit Id doubt Fabregas would start. Plus Torres hasnt been bad, he's just been nowhere near his best.

ah neil will you give him a break, he admitted he was wrong before you made that post no need to force it down his neck,
he's new enough as well.

ShoulderChip

ShoulderChip wrote: »

ah neil will you give him a break, he admitted he was wrong before you made that post no need to force it down his neck,
he's new enough as well.

I wasnt criticising, i was saying what i think the team will be. I cannot see him dropping Torres, especially with Villa out.

EDIT: Apologies, didnt see his post after that where he said Torres would play.

ShoulderChip

really? you fooled me with your tone.

even the fact you made such a big post instead of saying plus 1 to my post.

--amadeus--

For the benifit of some of the recent posters:


This is a football. It's used in a sport called "Association Football" and some of us on here are trying to talk about it...

This is really a bit of a non-discussion. Torres runs a lot and is an important player. He's still fairly young so there are good physical reasons for him not finishing 90 mins. Additionally most managers like to bring on fresh attackers in the last 30 mins of a match to play against tired defenders. Spain have a few good strikers so thay use that option a lot. Where is the issue?

As for LFC only having 2 good players and not being a big club, that's troll food, good luck with that.

Boggles

--amadeus-- wrote: »

He's still fairly young so there are good physical reasons for him not finishing 90 mins.

He is 24! What physical excuses?

Im_No_Superman

Ffs this thread has bit the dust fairly quick.:rolleyes: Torres has had a decent tournament, not amazing not terrible, he is doing a good job for his team. Personally I didnt see the harm in subbing him last night especially as Villa was off injured Aragones could have been thinking the last thing I need now is Torres picking up a knock, plus Spain were well on top at this stage and plus the guy that replaced Torres, Güiza was top scorer in La Liga so hardly a terrible player. To say Torres should be dropped for the final is absurd imo but to say he has performed well enough to say he shouldnt be subbed in matches is equally absurd.

--amadeus--

--amadeus-- wrote: »

As for LFC only having 2 good players and not being a big club, that's troll food, good luck with that.

FFS what the hell is wrong with you.


Liverpool have many decent players. I listed off a few excelllent players they have in a previous post. I said they have 2 SUPERSTARS. Will ya ever read ther feckin threads and take the points for what they are instead of constructing them into something that theyre not.


And the rest saying they arent a big club, we all kow they are a big club, what theyre not is up at the same level CONSISTENTLY as the top 2 at this present stage.

kryogen

exaclt so in essence, this thread is pointless, he gets subbed for good reasons, there is no need to bash liverpool, torres, united or ronaldo here.

fresh legs, rest. change of attacking style. it doesnt really matter, there are gonna be justifiable reasons to sub him. it doesnt mean hes a bad player

can we all share a moment and think about the fans who are missing from this tournament?

PHB

This thread has runs its course. People who dragged this thread massively off topic keep in mind that this will not be tolerated

If you want to start a thread on how good a certain team is, or how good a certain player is, please start a thread on that. Don't drag that crap into every thread.