Torres getting subbed off!

--amadeus--

The sooner Ronaldo does one to Spain the better because there seems to be an obsesion with dragging him into every thread, no matter how stretched the link.

Anyway one other reason that Torres may not perform as well for Spain as Liverpool is the general backroom staff. For example the LFC goalkeeping coach has files on all of the opposition goalkeepers and prior to teh game briefs Torres (and I assume the other strikers) on the keepers habits - which way they usually dive for penno's, if they dive early or stay big in one-on-ones, if they come for crosses and so on. Torres has said in interviews that that helped him hugely in his first season. If he doesn't get the same level of support at international level his performance will tail off a little. At the very top level it's about much more than raw talent, it's the application of talent and small differences in approach can add up to major changes in performance.

Not that I think he's been poor this tournament and I see no problem with substituting a striker and bringing on fresh legs in the last 20 - 30 mins.

Mr Alan

Mr Alan wrote: »

Objective is not making **** up man, i cant think of a single thing that could be confused for a dive in this tournament? and as for sulkier? pfft

Take the blinkers off Al will ya. Its ok to admit that he hasnt had a good tournament. Theyve made the final, thats 5 games theyve played, he's scored one goal. And he's dived numerous times, just because he plays for Liverpool deosnt mean u have to defend that FFS.

He looks mopey a lot fo the time, particularly last night, maybe he;s frustrated at his lack of goals, i dont know but to me he looks sulky, not im the same sense as Anelka sulky but he doesnt look happy.

gucci

gosplan wrote: »

To be honest though I wouldn't be surprised if there's some negative feelings towards the players who moved away from Spain. Not saying this is why Torrs was subbed but it explains Cesc not starting and Spanish TV giving the MOTM to Iniesta.

Didnt realise Iniesta got MOTM on Spanish TV, i kinda was forming a conspiricy theory of my own about Catalan players not being given the full game (bar Puyol) Xavi, Fabregas (is he catalan) Inesta rarely play the full 90, and I think Aragones just plain and simple likes to bring on fresh legs up front.

--amadeus--

Boggles wrote: »

Torres weakens the Spanish team, he is used to been the big player and teams like Madrid and Liverpool are built around him.

Torres is fantastic, but he is limited.

I think you may need to read this, get a better understanding of the sport we're discussing.

gixerfixer

Deleted User wrote: »

Take the blinkers off Al will ya. Its ok to admit that he hasnt had a good tournament. Theyve made the final, thats 5 games theyve played, he's scored one goal. And he's dived numerous times, just because he plays for Liverpool deosnt mean u have to defend that FFS.

He looks mopey a lot fo the time, particularly last night, maybe he;s frustrated at his lack of goals, i dont know but to me he looks sulky, not im the same sense as Anelka sulky but he doesnt look happy.

Ya see that's just not right.I didnt see one dive from him all tournament.He does dive in the EPL at times (not in Ronaldo's Gerrards class:)),but not in this tournament which leads me to think that you are just jumping on the Torres bashing bandwagon.

event

Mr Alan wrote: »

First off, he was injured against Chelsea, which is why he was taken off.

Secondly, i think wat is annoying me personally is that the very people who would have criticised Rafa on the night about the change are now defending Aragones. they just want a pop at Torres/Rafa/whoever they can get their hands on.

first point: I know that, but that wasnt known straight away on the night. i remember people giving out and a lot of pool fans saying that it was ok, sure babel scored.

secondly: honestly, **** em

event

Boggles wrote: »

Torres is fantastic, but he is limited.

in what way is he limited?

colly10

event wrote: »

last night he was subbed and his replacement scored.

There was alot for space left at the back a few minutes after he was subbed

gixerfixer

gixerfixer wrote: »

Complete nonsense.If you took Gerrard and torres out of the liverpool team they would be ordinary(no ****)....is that you Eamo. Torres lead the line brilliantly last night.He worked his arse off for the team and guess what they hammered Russia.People who make these kind of comments are the same as Liverpool fans who say Ronaldo isnt world class (course he is) in other words complete clowns.In case you didnt notice Spain are in the final...you did notice that didnt you?

:rolleyes:

How is it nonsense exactly?? Cos you say so? Well then it must be nonsene....:rolleyes:
I was making the point, that he has been accused, like Santa Cruz in the past, of being better as the "big fish". Stop being so paranoid and clam the f**k down. Like I said to Al, yes theyre in the final, Im very aware of that thank you, get a better argument next time FFS, he's scored 1 goal in 5 games getting them there, hardly prolific for a team thats scored 11 goals so far......you're aware of that arent you:mad::mad:

Foolish argument.

And as for your nonsensical, cheap last resort dig of comparing me to muppet Eamonn......when did I say anything remotely sensationalist like he does? You've started doin cartwheels cos I havent gone with the "ah he's great, the managers just a fool" party line. Maybe I should call you Liam.... :rolleyes:

Russia were brutal again last night. Spain have beaten them 7-1 on aggregate tis tourmant. defensively, Russia are weak. he worked hard yes, I never said he didnt,. but he was largely ineffectual, fluffing his chances. The kind of chances that he;d bury for Liverpool. My point is I think he;s currently off form. leave your Liverpool FC crap outta this, Im not havin a go at him or LFC, Im commenting on why I think he keeps gettin subbed, and speculating on potential reasons why he;s off form FFS.

gixerfixer

--amadeus-- wrote: »

I think you may need to read this, get a better understanding of the sport we're discussing.

+1. Lol:D

mike65

I'm curious as to these "sitters" Torres is missing.

Mike.

Racing Flat

nipplenuts wrote: »

Nipplenuts was not saying Torres ain't quality, but maybe not the saviour of the universe he's painted to be.

Nipplenuts asked the question does the EPL flatter Torres. The answer was 'No. He's quality..' not saying you didn't say he wasn't quality, just answering your question.

gucci

mike65 wrote:

I'm curious as to these "sitters" Torres is missing.

Mike.

Totally, I only remember one last night, wasnt really a sitter, but he missed.

amadeus wrote:

Anyway one other reason that Torres may not perform as well for Spain as Liverpool is the general backroom staff. For example the LFC goalkeeping coach has files on all of the opposition goalkeepers and prior to teh game briefs Torres (and I assume the other strikers) on the keepers habits

Hmmmm interesting, so your saying he will have a big dossier built up on Lehman Im off to the Bookies!!

Mr Alan

Boggles wrote: »

Listen there is no one having a pop at Torres/Rafa so get down off your paranoid high horse.

Really? Yea its my paranoia! :rolleyes:

Boggles wrote: »

Your Right! Ronaldo ever day of the week, proven winner, Torrres (even with 3 r's) has won fúck all!

Boggles wrote: »

apartently he only plays Torres because he is pressured to..

Boggles wrote: »

If he had any sort of bollix he would have made the decision last night of dropping him and playing Fabergas.

An Citeog wrote: »

he spent half the game moaning at the referee

Bubs101 wrote: »

only 4 of his premiership goals came away from home

An Citeog wrote: »

I thought he acted like a bit of a spoilt brat in the first half. There was one incident in particular where he wanted a foul given and when it wasn't, he just sat on the ground complaining to the ref ala Ronaldo.

nipplenuts wrote: »

Does anyone else think the EPL flatters this player?

Bubs101 wrote: »

Torres is **** when not at Anfield

---

Deleted User wrote: »

Take the blinkers off Al will ya. Its ok to admit that he hasnt had a good tournament. Theyve made the final, thats 5 games theyve played, he's scored one goal. And he's dived numerous times, just because he plays for Liverpool deosnt mean u have to defend that FFS.

Neil on your point below, this is another issue for me. He hasnt dived, i've watched every minute of every match he has played and he hasnt dived. Please cite me an example of when he "dived" or **** off.

And i aint saying he has had a great tournament, but he has a very good tournament, a handful of assists and a goal, leading the line on his own in the semi, winning 3-0.

There is a reason that Villa went over to Torres to celebrate his hat-trick, he said Torres deserved as much credit for it as he did.

gixerfixer

gixerfixer wrote: »

Ya see that's just not right.I didnt see one dive from him all tournament.He does dive in the EPL at times (not in Ronaldo's Gerrards class:)),but not in this tournament which leads me to think that you are just jumping on the Torres bashing bandwagon.

In fairness to him,unlike Ronaldo, he waits until there’s a hint of contact but he goes down very easily. Simulation maybe. Watch harder. Last night I saw 3 or 4 examples of it. Im not bashing him, he;s a super player. Best finisher in the EPL for sure, possibly Europe (only RVN comes close right now).


PS – the diving....throw Nani in there too, he;s really bad for it :pac:

Boggles

--amadeus-- wrote: »

Anyway one other reason that Torres may not perform as well for Spain as Liverpool is the general backroom staff. For example the LFC goalkeeping coach has files on all of the opposition goalkeepers and prior to teh game briefs Torres (and I assume the other strikers) on the keepers habits - which way they usually dive for penno's, if they dive early or stay big in one-on-ones, if they come for crosses and so on. Torres has said in interviews that that helped him hugely in his first season. If he doesn't get the same level of support at international level his performance will tail off a little. At the very top level it's about much more than raw talent, it's the application of talent and small differences in approach can add up to major changes in performance.

Not that I think he's been poor this tournament and I see no problem with substituting a striker and bringing on fresh legs in the last 20 - 30 mins.

Racing Flat

Boggles wrote: »

Torres is fantastic, but he is limited.

The mind boggles.

gixerfixer

Deleted User wrote: »

:rolleyes:

How is it nonsense exactly?? Cos you say so? Well then it must be nonsene....:rolleyes:
I was making the point, that he has been accused, like Santa Cruz in the past, of being better as the "big fish". Stop being so paranoid and clam the f**k down. Like I said to Al, yes theyre in the final, Im very aware of that thank you, get a better argument next time FFS, he's scored 1 goal in 5 games getting them there, hardly prolific for a team thats scored 11 goals so far......you're aware of that arent you:mad::mad:

Foolish argument.

And as for your nonsensical, cheap last resort dig of comparing me to muppet Eamonn......when did I say anything remotely sensationalist like he does? You've started doin cartwheels cos I havent gone with the "ah he's great, the managers just a fool" party line. Maybe I should call you Liam.... :rolleyes:

Russia were brutal again last night. Spain have beaten them 7-1 on aggregate tis tourmant. defensively, Russia are weak. he worked hard yes, I never said he didnt,. but he was largely ineffectual, fluffing his chances. The kind of chances that he;d bury for Liverpool. My point is I think he;s currently off form. leave your Liverpool FC crap outta this, Im not havin a go at him or LFC, Im commenting on why I think he keeps gettin subbed, and speculating on potential reasons why he;s off form FFS.

Ok i'll bite.How is it nonsense? I'll tell you. Silly comments like "If you take Torres and Gerrard out of the Liverpool team they would be ordinary"....this is nonsense.Of course they would FFS.The same as if you took Drogba and Carvalio out of the Chelsea team..the same as if you took Ronaldo and Vidic out of Manchester United team...the same as if you took Fabergas and Adaberor out of the Arsenal team etc......Name one occasion that he dived in the tournament?? I'll wait for the answer.....For your information im not paranoid thanks very much. The lad is class in the same way Fabergas is class or Kaka is class and im just pointing the facts out ..So please leave your Manchester United crap otta this and look at the player on a level playing field.Imagine he was playing for your crowd.Suppose you can dream.

Boggles

gixerfixer wrote: »

For your information im not paranoid thanks very much. The lad is class in the same way Fabergas is class or Kaka is class and im just pointing the facts out ..So please leave your Manchester United crap otta this and look at the player on a level playing field.Imagine he was playing for your crowd.Suppose you can dream.

Sweet Mary Lou! :rolleyes:

gucci

More like:



this freaking thread.

Mr Alan

Mr Alan wrote: »

Neil on your point below, this is another issue for me. He hasnt dived, i've watched every minute of every match he has played and he hasnt dived. Please cite me an example of when he "dived" or **** off.

And i aint saying he has had a great tournament, but he has a very good tournament, a handful of assists and a goal, leading the line on his own in the semi, winning 3-0.

There is a reason that Villa went over to Torres to celebrate his hat-trick, he said Torres deserved as much credit for it as he did.

You'd wanna watch your posts dont verge into abuse tellin people to **** off. Just like you Al, Ill say what I want and I most certainly will not **** off, okay?

Second, to quote your favourite argument that u type at elast once a day, this isnt the Liverpool thread, so dont expect a love in.


Thirdly, last night I can think of 2 off the top of my head that I can escribe. the first the defender puts in the tackle, and Torres then threw his head back, arched his back and fell to his knes. Even the commentators called it a dive. All very theatrical.

The second time the Russian had his arm on his collar but Torres fell to the gorund like he;d been tackled around the legs. He lets the ref know he’s being held....Now you can moan and say that his being held is a foul, and Id agree, but thats football, you have to deal with this as a striker.

He laid off some nice passes for Villa, but again, weak Rusky defence.... and Im not saying he has had a terrible tournament either. Sometimes I worry about u lads. the thread is about Torres being subbed, Im merely pointing out that his performances thus far have hardly made him undroppable or unsubstitutable. I mean Iniesta and Xavi have normally been subbed too and for me theyve been equally if not more effective to the team than Torres. But Guiza and Fabregas coming on have done well so I dont see the complaint.

--amadeus--

gixerfixer

gixerfixer wrote: »

Ok i'll bite.How is it nonsense? I'll tell you. Silly comments like "If you take Torres and Gerrard out of the Liverpool team they would be ordinary"....this is nonsense.Of course they would FFS.The same as if you took Drogba and Carvalio out of the Chelsea team..the same as if you took Ronaldo and Vidic out of Manchester United team...the same as if you took Fabergas and Adaberor out of the Arsenal team etc......Name one occasion that he dived in the tournament?? I'll wait for the answer.....For your information im not paranoid thanks very much. The lad is class in the same way Fabergas is class or Kaka is class and im just pointing the facts out ..So please leave your Manchester United crap otta this and look at the player on a level playing field.Imagine he was playing for your crowd.Suppose you can dream.

You're definitely paranoid mate. I didnt mention united once, you did. So you're definitely paranoid. If u didnt know who i supported I'd hate to see what kind of sh1te you'd fall back on.

btw saying "This is nonsense" and "of course they would" in the same sentence makes less than no sense. Its a paradox, you literally just agreed and disagreed with me over the same point?


Read my posts and imagine we're talking about someone who plays for Lyon or something so u can be more objective yea.


I never said take Gerrrard and Torres out of Pool and theyd be sh1te. I said theyd have no big superstars, which is true, I dunno why you;re havin such a fit about that. Again ur all over the place, get it together. I said, if u take those two out there'd be no STARS AND IN SPAIN THERE ARE MANY SUPERSTARS. Why is it so hard for u to get your head around that. Nothing in any of my posts about United.

Your lack of logic is astonighing. You're seeing what you want to see rather than reading my posts.


PS - Yea I wouldnt mind Torres at United one bit, but not at the expense of Ronaldo, Tevez or Rooney thanks Go back to the creche bringin that kind of crap up. Please stick to talking about Torres playing for SPAIN and why he may not be getting 90 minutes...thanks. LIVERPOOL, MANCHESTER UNITED, INTER MILAN AND COBH RAMBLERS HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THESE POTENTIAL REASONS, OR THIS DISCUSSION.

Xavi6

Seriously lads, chill ffs.

Mr Alan

Deleted User wrote: »

You'd wanna watch your posts dont verge into abuse tellin people to **** off. Just like you Al, Ill say what I want and I most certainly will not **** off, okay?.

Of course you can say watever you want, but please dont make stuff up. Thats wat pisses me off.

Deleted User wrote: »

Second, to quote your favourite argument that u type at elast once a day, this isnt the Liverpool thread, so dont expect a love in.

I dont expect a love in, but people also shouldnt expect to make stuff up without being told to **** off.

Deleted User wrote: »

Thirdly, last night I can think of 2 off the top of my head that I can escribe. the first the defender puts in the tackle, and Torres then threw his head back, arched his back and fell to his knees.

Presuming this was the incident when Torres and the defender were tusselling in the russian penalty area, and the russian lad fell on the back of Torres legs? how are you meant to go down when a 6ft plus blokes falls into the back of your legs.

hardly a dive.

Deleted User wrote: »

The second time the Russian had his arm on his collar but Torres fell to the gorund like he;d been tackled around the legs. He lets the ref know he’s being held....Now you can moan and say that his being held is a foul, and Id agree, but thats football, you have to deal with this as a striker.

Pretty sure as the guy was holding him fouling him, he also clipped his heals.

Again, still awaiting an instance when he dived, considering he has been doing it all tournament, there should be no shortage.

Racing Flat

Deleted User wrote: »

PS - Yea I wouldnt mind Torres at United one bit, but not at the expense of Ronaldo, Tevez or Rooney thanks

Liverpool fan, but (if it was purely for footballing reasons) I would take Ronaldo over Torres, but I would definitely take Torres over Tevez, no question. Tougher call, but i'd probably take Torres over Rooney, as I feel that Rooney's size may come against him. He's a big lad in the strong sense for a young age. Think this will mean his pace and ability to accelerate and turn etc. will dimish substabntially by the time he's 25 or so and he'll never fulfil the huge potential. Just an opinion.

gixerfixer

Deleted User wrote: »

You're definitely paranoid mate. I didnt mention united once, you did. So you're definitely paranoid. If u didnt know who i supported I d hate to see what kind of sh1te you'd fall back on.


Read my posts and imagine we're talking about someone who plays for Lyon or something so u can be more objective yea.


I never said take Geerad and Torres out of Pool and theyd be sh1te. Again ur all over the place, get it together. I said, if u take those wtwo out there;d be no STARS AND IN SPAIN THERE ARE MANY STARS. Why is it so hard for u to get your head around that. Nothing in any of my posts about United.

Your lack of logic is astonighing. You're seeing what you want to see rather than reading my posts.


PS - Yea I wouldnt mind Torres at United one bit, but not at the expense of Ronaldo, Tevez or Rooney thanks Go back to the creche bringin that kind of crap up. Please stick to talking about Torres playing for SPAIN and why he may not be getting 90 minutes...thanks. LIVERPOOL, MANCHESTER UNITED, INTER MILAN AND COBH RAMBLERS HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THESE POTENTIAL REASONS, OR THIS DISCUSSION.

Ha Ha Ha......Whilst i for one agree with the Computers for primary schools programme it leads to one inevitable outcome for users.Nonsense talk :pac:

pvt.joker

The simple fact is that Torres shouldnt be in the starting 11 for Spain.
The lad who came on for him played excellent, and now has 2 goals from the bench.

You get your place in the team by CURRENT FORM, not reputation, which is what Mr.Alan is basing his opinion of Torres on.

Racing Flat

Racing Flat wrote: »

Liverpool fan, but (if it was purely for footballing reasons) I would take Ronaldo over Torres, but I would definitely take Torres over Tevez, no question. Tougher call, but i'd probably take Torres over Rooney, as I feel that Rooney's size may come against him. He's a big lad in the strong sense for a young age. Think this will mean his pace and ability to accelerate and turn etc. will dimish substabntially by the time he's 25 or so and he'll never fulfil the huge potential. Just an opinion.

Torres is a more effective striker than both Rooney and Tevez. I wouldnt trade them tho because they suit our style of play. Id take him if he was playing with those guys rather than instread of. Again, TORRES IS ABSOLUTELY CLASS, Im not disputing that one bit. Im talking about his performances for Spain in Euro 2008 and that alone, which have been, at best, average, hence he cant complain too much about being subbed.


The coach wont sub any of the back 5 as they are thin at the back for options.

He wont take off Senna and as Villa had been so prolific he wasnt gonna take him off.


Which leaves: Silva, Torres, Xavi, Iniesta as guys who are available to go off. Hardly a shock when only 4 players are likely to go off and the coach uses all of his bench.....

gixerfixer

gixerfixer wrote: »

Ha Ha Ha......Whilst i for one agree with the Computers for primary schools programme it leads to one inevitable outcome for users.Nonsense talk :pac:

Good man, have a personal (and franky cheap and unfunny) go at me rather than stick to the topic. Classic sign of defeat Fair play...all credibility you may have had is now gone, and if u keep up that kind of theme in your posts Ill have no problem whatsoever in reporting you.

Id say more but Im not gonna lower myself to your level.