Fire Brigade Charges

Paulzx

The calls are recorded by the systems in the Control Room

SerialComplaint

Karlitosway1978 wrote: »

FOI applies to hard copy items on record that contributes to an information file on a person. For example, convictions held by AGS.

Wrong - FOI is not related to personal information, in the way that the Data Protection legislation works. I've done FOI requests on Govt technology projects , and departmental committees and policy issues.

Eru

SerialComplaint wrote: »

Wrong - FOI is not related to personal information, in the way that the Data Protection legislation works. I've done FOI requests on Govt technology projects , and departmental committees and policy issues.

Apologies I should have been clearer. I was refering to what you can demand in relation to yourself on the records of emergency services.

scab

What is the means tested waiver system for fire brigade charges about? Do you have to pay a small amount of the fee or is the whole thing means tested to see how much you owe? I am not working at the minute I am doing a fás course and also I rent the house from the county council in which I had the chimney fire. Do they just claim the costs against the house insurance?

Our man in Havana

It is up to you to claim off your insurance.

scab

When you rent from the council they have buildings insurance for storm and fire damage and the occupant only has to have contents insurance.

Sully

Wonder what ever happened to the OP

daithip

Often wondered about this one, have had several instances where a person would ring into the Garda Station reporting they have a fire, I would have then had to contact the fire station. My question here is who is responsible for paying the call out, as it would have been the Gardai who requested them to attend, not the person who reported having the fire?

It has been bounded around a number of us wondering who is responsible and the main reason peole ring the station rather than the fire brigade is because they are also under the impression that they won't have to pay the call out if they do this?

Can anyone shed some light on this??

TheNog

I've often called the Fire Service for fires but never received any paper from the Super asking why he has a bill in front of him

Zuppy

It depends on which UDC area your in.

I think since you pay your rates, and you pay your road tax and you pay the governments tax's/Vat's etc that I have paid enough to the upkeep of the Fire service and do not need a bill (triple taxation IMO).

It also leads a lot of OAP's in my area, worried about a bill, not to call the fire service. We don't charge, but since nearly every other brigade does and there is not national service or nationally set charges.....

{if there was, there would have to be a national standard for response times}

Zuppy

Just in relation to the example in Clare given on page 4 of this thread.

Co Co Charter is a list of aspirations not of hard promises.

You live in the country, Smoke coming from a house (house fire) will get you one retained pump. Same control in a city/ town has to mobilise 2 pumps and possible control unit. Difference is houses are 500m to 1km apart. Same fire control, same pump probably attending even.

civdef

The bill for fire service attendance (in those areas that charge) goes to the "beneficial user of the service". So if you're driving along and see a shed on fire and call it in, the bill will go to the shed owner, not you.

Our man in Havana

I reckon these charges could be challenged in court as being unfair and discriminatory. That said I have never heard of a LA taking anyone to court over an unpaid FB charge.

Zuppy

A lot of UDC's disregard unpaid bills depending on circumstances. Noone wants to be in the papers for billing an OAP living on his own in a wheelchair up a country lane. (Radio and press :-) )

Our man in Havana

All the more reason to do away with these charges.

mass

Back in February my car was burnt out by vandals in Drogheda. Apparently the fire service there had attended to the fire before I arrived. The car was a total write off, a culprit was never found (as usual) and it took months to get the insurance.

Three months later I receive a bill from the fire service in Drogheda for 812 euros! The insurance company are not interested as the settlement is long done. So, the crime victim is expected to pay out? This can't be right?

Our man in Havana

I reckon these charges are wholly unlawful.

Benster

Gerry Ryan had 3 fire fighters from different counties on this morning, all saying the system of charges was a mess. One even said he was called out to a chimney fire and the old guy who owned the house told them they weren't wanted and he wouldn't be paying for any call-out. He proceeded to get up on his own roof and pour water down the chimney.

I totally agree the system is unfair and a mess. In the North, fire fighting is paid for out of household rates set by each council. Each council could set a different rate, but that takes care of ALL your charges for loads of things like bin collection, maintenance of public areas, greens etc, and the fire service. There is no "user pays" policy like there is down South, and for a service like this there should never be a doubt in the caller's mind as to whether they should use the service as there might be a hefty charge.

If there was an extra 1% put on income tax for funding of emergency services (even a 0.5% might do it), I would have no problem with that, and I doubt many others would either as the money raised would ensure the top rate service given today would be even better.

Maybe this is one topic that should be raised when the wannabe councillors come knocking on your door for your vote this week.

Our man in Havana

Maybe this is one topic that should be raised when the wannabe councillors come knocking on your door for your vote this week.

I shall ask them if any are brave enough to come to my door.

Hooch

Bond-007 wrote: »

I shall ask them if any are brave enough to come to my door.

+1..........they wont call to mine either for some reason.............:D

Smokey Bear

There is talk of charges possibly coming to the capital soon BUT NOT for demostic Fire call.For the likes of RTC's etc.
Funds are need asap to keep DFB going as HSE wont pay for provision of ambo service in Dublin region,They refuse to pay the current bill they owe millions €€€ all this €€ comes out of DFB budget.So DFB have to recoup money some how.Other cuts have been anounced that effect manning levels reduction in front line numbers.All because HSE wont pay up FF number will be effected apx 25 positions I belive,if ambo service was handed back to HSE that would be another 120 positions gone from DFB,should know more in coming days.

Smokey Bear

angelfire9

Sully wrote: »

Wonder what ever happened to the OP

Got a reminder from the council about the bill in the last few weeks, not paying it, have told them i'm not paying it, am willing to go to court to explain why i'm not paying it, 12 months on i'm every bit annoyed now as i was then
I still maintain that 30 minutes for a call out (albeit for a retained service) in the Ennis Urban Area at 2.23 on a Monday morning is too long i've had 12 months to think about it and i haven't changed my mind!

Our man in Havana

Fair play to you for sticking to your guns.

angelfire9

Bond-007 wrote: »

Fair play to you for sticking to your guns.

Female stubborness! :pac:

Lobster

I've been getting the annual reminder for three or four years now. Just the same letter each time

DubMedic

Lobster wrote: »

I've been getting the annual reminder for three or four years now. Just the same letter each time

Sounds like that election rubbish that comes in the door.

'' Please vote for us, we look good on paper but we'll do sweet fook all when we get in , promise * ''.

Same page, all promising sun shine and lollipops, but in reality they don't mean squat. Same with the charges for the retained FF, Government pressuring local council into funding its own Fire Service to save yet more money , all the while promising an amazing response time and astounding health service to help the people.

This country government really does have an excuse for everything :mad:.

* Caution , political leaflets may be endorsed by female candidates, to sway male voting.

.

DubMedic

Benster wrote: »

If there was an extra 1% put on income tax for funding of emergency services (even a 0.5% might do it), I would have no problem with that, and I doubt many others would either as the money raised would ensure the top rate service given today would be even better.

How about taking a portion of what tax seems to be going towards funding the chancers that are here illegally , and using that to help our own fellow countrymen/women.

Then when the EU sees that we are against illegal immigration , & that Dail Eireann actually gives a s**t about its people , we might get a bit of funding from Mr European Union to help our healthcare system.

.

wreckless

Pricewatch

*
Don’t pay the fireman…
May 20, 2009 @ 12:44 pm | by Conor

A listener to the Ray Darcy show contacted me last week with a problem which is just bonkers. Two months ago she was in a small car accident with another car. No one was injured but at the scene she called 999 – as you do - and requested the gardai and an ambulance. The fire brigade also came out and she thought nothing of it. Until last week when she got a bill from the county council for a fire tender. And how much was she being charged? €1,117. She rang and explained that she didn’t call the fire brigade and nor were they required but was told it was procedure for them to scramble when 999 was called. She was also told her bill was a little bit more expensive because the accident happened on a Saturday so the firemen were on double time.

This is crazy on many, many levels. First off, she never called the fire brigade and it seems ridiculous that the county council can justify billing them for a service they never requested. Nor was she given any warning there would be a charge. As I understand it, fire brigades have a statutory obligation to attend the scene of accidents where there have been fatalities, fires – obviously – or where people need to be cut from vehicles. There is no obligation on them to come to the scene of small tips.

Secondly, the very notion that people have to pay for a fire brigade to attend the scene of an accident seems completely bizarre to me. Where will that logic end? Gardai and the ambulance men could also start charging. You’d have people afraid to call the guards on the Saturday night of a Bank Holiday weekend when their house was being burgled because they’d be worried the guards would be on treble time and would cost them more than anything the thieves could make off with.

And then, on the most basic level of all, you have the amount of money being charged here. Over €1,100 for 20 minutes work on a Saturday sounds wantonly excessive to me. Now I know that when you break it down it only amounts to about €125 per fireman and it was a Saturday after all but even so.

The fire service themselves are entirely blameless here and the charges are levied by county councils. There is absolutely no consistency to this and the cost of calling out a fire brigade to a road accident can cost nothing at all or more than €1,200 depending on which county the accident occurs. The fees can be doubled if two fire vehicles are involved and in some county council areas it’s a policy to send at least two vehicles to the scene of an accident. As a general policy, where there are charges they are waived in the case of fatal accidents and in multiple vehicle accidents, the charge is divided among the owners.
In Dublin for instance there are no charges and nor is there any charges in Cork City or in Cork County. Wicklow County Council charges the wage cost plus one third to cover overheads and administration. Typically this is the charge levied and this is what our listener is being asked to pay.

The fact that the charges depend on where you are makes them doubly wrong as in the case of an accident as you travel cross country, for example, you have absolutely no way of knowing where you are or how much your would be liable to pay. So if you’re going from Cork to Dublin you might pass through six different council areas and be liable to pay different amounts in each one.

http://www.irishtimes.com/blogs/pricewatch/2009/05/20/dont-pay-the-fireman/

:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

Our man in Havana

Exactly the reason why they would be struck down if anyone ever challenged them in court.

Councils chance their arms as they know that most of them will end up being paid by insurance companies. In cases where they don't get paid, they simply drop them. Insurance companies should stand up and challenge them.

wreckless

couldnt agree more. and the minister has done the whole country and the firemen working here no favours lately by introducing this fire services directorate.

it has not and will not address the main issues ongoing country wide. They (government and local authorities) just want be seen doing something before the damning Bray reports are published.