Fire Brigade Charges

tallaght01

IN fairness, 30 mins when your gaff is burning down is unacceptable. There's no point in getting snotty abou that particular reality. Especially if you're expected to pay 2k for the service.

On a side note, me eyes nearly popped out of my head reading that cops who die in the line of duty can rest in peace knowing that their widow gets handed a bill for the send off!!!!!! Outrageous!!!!!!!

Our man in Havana

On a side note, me eyes nearly popped out of my head reading that cops who die in the line of duty can rest in peace knowing that their widow gets handed a bill for the send off!!!!!! Outrageous!!!!!!!

It sure is. What an insult to the years of service and the ultimate sacrifice they made.

wicklaman83

Karlitosway1978 wrote: »

Then next time your house is burning down put it out yourself or call an alternative voluntary fire service who will drop everything including their family and rush to the scene in a more acceptable, customer service orientated time.

are you saying that 30 mins is acceptable to wait for an emergency service.thats apart of their job to drop everything to get to the call in the quickest time possible.if you think it is acceptable it is no wonder you have a desk job in AGS

SerialComplaint

Many rural houses are more than 30 minutes away from the nearest fire station, before you even think of the amount of time it takes to page the retained fire officers, get them out of their beds, get dressed and get to the station.

angelfire9

SerialComplaint wrote: »

Many rural houses are more than 30 minutes away from the nearest fire station, before you even think of the amount of time it takes to page the retained fire officers, get them out of their beds, get dressed and get to the station.

This is true, but i do live 5 minutes from the fire station! Consider this though: i rang 999 at 2.23am, i rang my parents at 2.35am, i rang my sister at 2.40am and my mother rang my brother (to get clothes for me) at 2.45am and all of them were up dressed and at my house before the fire service! (all live about equi-distant to my house as the fire station) I had 3 garda cars in attendance before 2.30am the ambulance didn't arrive until after the fire service because the controller at the 999 call centre in limerick decided that because i had told her everyone was out of the house that we didn't require an ambulance! If the fire service had attended the fire promptly then thousands of euro worth of damage to my house could have been avoided that's why the charge of almost €2k for their "service" leaves a bad taste in my mouth and that's why i'm not paying it!
What's worse though, if i was unfortunate enough to be in the same situation again i'd think twice before i'd ring 999!

Eru

Yes but the Gardai are working fulltime anyway and did your parents have to stop off at the firestation, get geared up and arrive with fire fighting equipment? No and thats the difference.

civdef

In fairness, the time from a retained station being alerted by the control centre to going mobile is usually under 5-6 minutes.

marzic

I am sorry to hear about your home, i cant imagine how difficult it must have been emotionally as well as everything else. I wouldnt blame you for not wanting to pay it, but if i may make a suggestion, be proactive in not paying it. what i mean is, write to them and explain all of your reasons for dissatisfaction, the poor level of service, miscommunications, brake-downs, etc. if you just ignore the bill the council will likely pursue it, and if you have no record of your complaint, you may find that if it went to court that you may still have to pay plus costs.

Making a phone call and saying i dont want to pay is not good enough, there needs to be a paper trail and you have a better chance of success if you justify your case with the facts. Get a hold of the councils customer policy document regarding the fire service, ie time frames from time of call, response times etc. i would suggest that you try, if possible maybe through freedom of information, to get the records of the call out from the fire station. I know its hassle that you dont need, but thats what you have to do in this country. It might be worth talking to a local town/ county councillor who might give you guidance on who to address/ contact. On the matter of your insurance, if you havent had payment yet, be sure to claim for every thing thats on your policy, as much as is possible! good luck

Our man in Havana

It would be very rare for a council to presue a fire brigade charge in the courts. They automatically assume that an insurance company will pay and when it doesn't happen they tend to drop it. That has been my experience in the past.

TheNog

Karlitosway1978 wrote: »

Yes but the Gardai are working fulltime anyway and did your parents have to stop off at the firestation, get geared up and arrive with fire fighting equipment? No and thats the difference.

I think your missing the point Karlito. If civdefs info is correct which I was reckoning to be, then the 30 minutes delay contributing to a breakdown of a fire truck (can happen) with another truck having a broken radio (coincidence- I don;t think so) is pretty unacceptable.

It is too early to lay this blame squarely on the retained Fire Brigade near Angelfires home. It could be a problem with funding from the council.

I was lucky enough to work with Drogeda Fire Brigade for 2 weeks on work experience and although it is a full time station, the rigorous tests they did at the start of every shift was impressive. I'm hoping these same tests are done in retained stations frequently.

Eru

No the point is that he is unhappy with the service but his reasoning is flawed because his complaint centers on the fact that the fire service didnt get there as fast as other people.

Im merely pointing out that a part time fire service dont go direct to a fire from their homes, they arent working and ready to go and they are the ones that need to make a stop to get prepared.

If he is unhappy about what happened fair enough but complaining because his parents got there first is neither fair nor realistic. We all need to remember that retained firemen often put the fire service before their primary occupations. The last lad I spoke with told me he went from job to job because the bosses got fed up with him running off to put out fires and as a result he never really had a 'career' so to speak.

He should complain that the service itself is not adequate for the needs of the area and get behind the firemen in question not simple give out. Besides, even emergency service equipment and vehicles break down.

Our man in Havana

In my personal experience, I had a fire a couple of years ago. I live 4 miles from the nearest station which is a retained service. They were with me in 10 mins.

TheNog

Karlitosway1978 wrote: »

No the point is that he is unhappy with the service but his reasoning is flawed because his complaint centers on the fact that the fire service didnt get there as fast as other people.

Im merely pointing out that a part time fire service dont go direct to a fire from their homes, they arent working and ready to go and they are the ones that need to make a stop to get prepared.

Assuming that everyone knows that the retained firemen must go to the station first and again assuming that
5-6 minutes for a call out from fire control,
5-8 minutes for all firemen to reach the station and even though Angelfire's house is 5 minutes way by car we could give
7-8 minutes for a truck.

That's about 17-22 minutes response time. Suppose factoring in the broken down truck and radio problem with the other truck could extend that time to the 30 minutes.

A truck breaking down is understandable but a radio as well on the same night on another truck kinda points to an underlying problem to me. Whether that be insufficient funding from the council or not enough checks being done on the equipment.

Karlitosway1978 wrote: »

If he is unhappy about what happened fair enough but complaining because his parents got there first is neither fair nor realistic. We all need to remember that retained firemen often put the fire service before their primary occupations. The last lad I spoke with told me he went from job to job because the bosses got fed up with him running off to put out fires and as a result he never really had a 'career' so to speak.

I agree with ye here and that's why I mentioned a possible problem with funding from the council. Not having the proper equipment or not having present equipment properly maintained or funded is of course going to impact response times.

Karlitosway1978 wrote: »

He should complain that the service itself is not adequate for the needs of the area and get behind the firemen in question not simple give out. Besides, even emergency service equipment and vehicles break down.

It will be a process of elimination for whoever wants to delve deeper into it. Whose at fault, the fire brigade or the council. I have my money on the council.


Also Angelfire is a woman. She told me via PM about being 6ft, blonde hair and a long legs. Actually must see if she pm'ed me a pic of those long legs

*wanders off to PM box*

angelfire9

TheNog wrote: »

Assuming that everyone knows that the retained firemen must go to the station first and again assuming that
5-6 minutes for a call out from fire control,
5-8 minutes for all firemen to reach the station and even though Angelfire's house is 5 minutes way by car we could give
7-8 minutes for a truck.

That's about 17-22 minutes response time. Suppose factoring in the broken down truck and radio problem with the other truck could extend that time to the 30 minutes.

A truck breaking down is understandable but a radio as well on the same night on another truck kinda points to an underlying problem to me. Whether that be insufficient funding from the council or not enough checks being done on the equipment.

I agree with ye here and that's why I mentioned a possible problem with funding from the council. Not having the proper equipment or not having present equipment properly maintained or funded is of course going to impact response times.

It will be a process of elimination for whoever wants to delve deeper into it. Whose at fault, the fire brigade or the council. I have my money on the council.

Also Angelfire is a woman. She told me via PM about being 6ft, blonde hair and a long legs. Actually must see if she pm'ed me a pic of those long legs

*wanders off to PM box*

Actually i'm a brunette but the 6ft and female part you got right! :pac:

Now, according to Clare Co. Co. customer's charter a domestic fire within the ennis town limits is supposed to have a fire tender in attendance within 15 minutes of the call out, all retained fire officers are supposed to live within 5 minutes of the station (and that's five minutes during peak travel times)
I would imagine that travelling at 2.20am would be that bit quicker than say 8.55am when traffic is mental so i maintain that a 30 minute response time is not good enough.
I have a copy of the 999 tape and a copy of the station officer's log and strangely enough the fire officer's log shows them arriving at my house at 2.42am but the 6 gardai in attendance as well as the time of the ambulance call out and the word of 4 of my family members all agree it was after 2.55am when the actually got there!
Serious case of CYA in the Co. Co. and fire service going on here!

TheNog

angelfire9 wrote: »

Serious case of CYA in the Co. Co. and fire service going on here!

CYA???

explain please, I'm old

angelfire9

TheNog wrote: »

CYA???

explain please, I'm old

Ah you're not really, maybe tis a country thing :pac:
CYA= Cover Your Ass

TheNog

angelfire9 wrote: »

Ah you're not really,

must ... resist... big...head...symdrome...from...tall...brunette

angelfire9

TheNog wrote: »

must ... resist... big...head...symdrome...from...tall...brunette

:pac:

Eru

angelfire9 wrote: »

Actually i'm a brunette but the 6ft and female part you got right! :pac:

Now, according to Clare Co. Co. customer's charter a domestic fire within the ennis town limits is supposed to have a fire tender in attendance within 15 minutes of the call out, all retained fire officers are supposed to live within 5 minutes of the station (and that's five minutes during peak travel times)
I would imagine that travelling at 2.20am would be that bit quicker than say 8.55am when traffic is mental so i maintain that a 30 minute response time is not good enough.
I have a copy of the 999 tape and a copy of the station officer's log and strangely enough the fire officer's log shows them arriving at my house at 2.42am but the 6 gardai in attendance as well as the time of the ambulance call out and the word of 4 of my family members all agree it was after 2.55am when the actually got there!
Serious case of CYA in the Co. Co. and fire service going on here!

Pardon me?

angelfire9

Karlitosway1978 wrote: »

Pardon me?

What?

deadwood

Karlitosway1978 wrote: »

Pardon me?

angelfire9 wrote: »

What?

angelfire9 wrote: »

I have a copy of the 999 tape and a copy of the station officer's log and strangely enough the fire officer's log shows them arriving at my house at 2.42am but the 6 gardai in attendance as well as the time of the ambulance call out and the word of 4 of my family members all agree it was after 2.55am when the actually got there!

Methinks he might be wondering on how you got a copy of this tape and (more importantly ) the station officers log.

Our man in Havana

Freedom of Information Act, Data Protection Act.

angelfire9

deadwood wrote: »

Methinks he might be wondering on how you got a copy of this tape and (more importantly ) the station officers log.

Station Officer's log came from Chief Fire Officer via a request from my local TD, the copy of the 999 tape came courtesy of An Garda Siochana

Eru

Bond-007 wrote: »

Freedom of Information Act, Data Protection Act.

Neither applies to this nor do they automatically apply to emergency services.

angelfire9

Karlitosway1978 wrote: »

Neither applies to this nor do they automatically apply to emergency services.

The Gardai i would assume got the 999 tape for me as a courtesy to their colleague (my husband serving member) and my father (retired sgt)

Our man in Havana

Karlitosway1978 wrote: »

Neither applies to this nor do they automatically apply to emergency services.

Data protection act applies to all data held by an organisation. The fire brigade is a part of the county council. It does also apply to the Gardaí subject to the usual exemptions.
FOI applies to public bodies, again the council is a public body.

Eru

Bond-007 wrote: »

Data protection act applies to all data held by an organisation. The fire brigade is a part of the county council. It does also apply to the Gardaí subject to the usual exemptions.
FOI applies to public bodies, again the council is a public body.

I never said it didnt apply I said it doesnt apply here The chiefs notes are HIS notes. It does not fall under 'recorded information about a person' in the same way that a Garda notebook does not.

A recording of a phonecall is not covered as it contains little or no personal information and does not contribute to a 'record' of the person.

FOI applies to hard copy items on record that contributes to an information file on a person. For example, convictions held by AGS.

Our man in Havana

I shall agree to differ with you there.

deadwood

angelfire9 wrote: »

The Gardai i would assume got the 999 tape for me as a courtesy to their colleague (my husband serving member) and my father (retired sgt)

And they're entiled how, exactly?

Our man in Havana

Who records the calls in the first place? Eircom?