M8 - Cashel to Cullahill

L1011

wireless = they use solar + batteries and they use GSM rather than standard telephone network or a private system. Ensures they don't need to cut up the entire side of the enbankment to install or fit them.

I believe they've been fitted to the M4 also?

BluntGuy

MYOB wrote: »

wireless = they use solar + batteries and they use GSM rather than standard telephone network or a private system. Ensures they don't need to cut up the entire side of the enbankment to install or fit them.

I believe they've been fitted to the M4 also?

I know that the M4 phones were actually replaced a number of months ago, perhaps they were replaced with wireless ones... :cool:

Amtmann

BluntGuy wrote: »

But everything is at-grade which will make the Cullahill PPP tie-in a bit of a mess when it gets down to it (although I doubt that'll be for a while anyway). In retrospect, they really should've built some form of GSJ here... but too late to change that now.

No, the merger of the two schemes will be seamless; they're both at the same grade. I've one photo above where part of the caption reads "note no sign of M7M8 PPP". As you can see in that photo, there will be no problem when the time eventually comes with fusing them neatly together.

With regard to the phones, those words are mine, not the NRA's. The thrust of his statement was that the wireless phones are successful.

Amtmann

JupiterKid wrote: »

This is nothing short of fantastic progress. I'll be travelling down to Cork twice in December, before Christmas and for a New Year's bash in Bandon so I'm looking forward to this new stretch of road.

How much of the Dublin-Cork road is now dualled? It must be well over half the length at this stage, maybe two thirds?

Hm... 83.5km of motorway between Cullahill and Mitchelstown from December 8th plus the 17km bypass of Fermoy and Rathcormac - that's 100km - plus dual carriageway from from Watergrasshill to the Dunkettle Interchange at Cork, so that's about 115km or a bit more out of a total length of about 156km (at least I think that's the total length of the N8; is that right, BluntGuy?).

I am a little concerned, though, that with the breakneck speed of construction, some corners in quality control may be cut - could there be subsidence/surface problems a few years down the line due to the hasty nature of the construction of our newest road projects?

I'm certain the pavement is fully up to standard at all points. The only corners cut relate to landscaping and the provision of emergency phones.**

I think the road will feel a little humpy for the first few months but this seems to be normal. The Cashel to Mitchelstown scheme was quite humpy when it first opened but has 'settled' a lot since then, and is now as even as can be.

** I don't mean to suggest by this that the contractors have cut corners - far from it. Merely that the road was designed to be as cheap as possible, i.e. limited planting, and an absense of emergency phones even though the road was reclassified last July.

BluntGuy

The old N8 was 155 km...

But the M8 is (or will be) 144 km AFAIK... (due to it being a lot more direct)...

13.3 km - Dunkettle - Watergrasshill
17.5 km - Watergrasshill - Fermoy
16 km - Fermoy - Mitchelstown*
25 km - Mitchelstown - Cahir
12 km - Cahir - Cashel
6.7 km - Cashel bypass
40 km - Cashel - Cullahill
13 km - Cullahill - Portlaoise junction

* Several websites have this as 18km or 22km. But the mainline is 16 km.

Apologies for giving the 155 km figure. The Cork Roads website had this figure :mad:, which is what led me off track.

The large majority of the M8 will be complete by June next year anyway, with a lovely continous mainline of 131 km from Cullahill all the way to Dunkettle (assuming the redesignation goes ahead, which I expect it will).

Zoney

I think the Kildare or Monasterevin bypass (not sure which one) on the M7 had the wireless emergency phones from the get-go. Certainly well used to seeing them on that route, the solar panel and aerial are a bit of a giveaway that they are not wired installations.

Danno

"13km Cullohill -> Portlaoise Junction"

That should be much more. Approx 32km I think.

Abbeyleix is 14km from Portlaoise - allowing for the roundabout being 2km outside of town then it is 12km.

BluntGuy

Danno wrote: »

"13km Cullohill -> Portlaoise Junction"

That should be much more. Approx 32km I think.

Abbeyleix is 14km from Portlaoise - allowing for the roundabout being 2km outside of town then it is 12km.

No... you're probably thinking of portlaoise to Cullahill, which is about 28 km. But the majority of that is M7 motorway. The M8 portion is roughly 13 km...

BluntGuy

Furet wrote: »

No, the merger of the two schemes will be seamless; they're both at the same grade. I've one photo above where part of the caption reads "note no sign of M7M8 PPP". As you can see in that photo, there will be no problem when the time eventually comes with fusing them neatly together.

But where would the second slip-road be? I would've thought they would've located it on the other side...

Amtmann

BluntGuy wrote: »

But where would the second slip-road be? I would've thought they would've located it on the other side...

Apologies; I misunderstood you. The merger or Cashel to Cullahill with the M7/M8 PPP will be seamless, but yes, the construction of another slip road wouldn't be. I think they'll put it on the same side as the first one, oddly enough.

G_R

UPDATE:

was going past the section from urlingford to the cullahill roundabout section of it today....

road markings are on both of the roads leading away from the N8 in urlingford (the one to KK and the one to the M8).

i can confirm that i deffinitley saw SOS motorway phones...

signage is up on all the route except for a few signs close the terminus near cullahill and i think there is overhead signs for each exit...

at the roundabout near cullahill, there is roadmarkings on the ground and signs are up...they were also leveling out the 3m or so of road between the roundabout and the existing N8.

BluntGuy

dannym08 wrote: »

UPDATE:

was going past the section from urlingford to the cullahill roundabout section of it today....

road markings are on both of the roads leading away from the N8 in urlingford (the one to KK and the one to the M8).

One thing, have they taken down the old "N8" signage on the soon-to-be R639 yet? Because they have a habit of not bothering to do that. Even if they just shoved a few "(M8)" patches on the local road I'd be grateful.

i can confirm that i deffinitley saw SOS motorway phones...

Good. But I imagine they'll only be from Cullahill-Urlingford. Urlingford - Carrigine will be done in time according to Furet.

AugustusMaximus

BluntGuy wrote: »

One thing, have they taken down the old "N8" signage on the soon-to-be R639 yet? Because they have a habit of not bothering to do that.

The old N8 around Cahir still has "N8" signposts on it.

corktina

I imagine changing the signs on the old road isnt part of the contract for the new raod....NRA/CC 's job possibly....

L1011

There are N7 signs on roads in Naas bypassed in 1983!

edit: And N9 ones too come to think of it, on the Kilcullen Road, from '93.

Chris_533976

Not one single N18 sign was taken down in Ennis.

Amtmann

Almost all the N8 signs were removed in Tipperary between Cashel, New Inn and Cahir when the first section of the Cashel to Mitchelstown scheme opened in late 2007. Since then, however, none have been taken down. At all.

With regard to the roundabout outside Cullahill, freak that I am, I'm dying to know how they've marked the road. (I guess we're kind of like those weird trainspotting folk, only we watch them build and plan roads )

G_R

BluntGuy wrote: »

One thing, have they taken down the old "N8" signage on the soon-to-be R639 yet? Because they have a habit of not bothering to do that. Even if they just shoved a few "(M8)" patches on the local road I'd be grateful.

havent taken them down yet....and prob wont any time soon....they'll prob get replaced as time goes on and signs are being renewed...

L1011

Furet wrote: »

With regard to the roundabout outside Cullahill, freak that I am, I'm dying to know how they've marked the road. (I guess we're kind of like those weird trainspotting folk, only we watch them build and plan roads )

I resent that accusation, I don't have an anorak...








Its far too cold and uncovered for an anorak near roads, those damn trainspotters have the shelter of the stations :P

mackerski

MYOB wrote: »

There are N7 signs on roads in Naas bypassed in 1983!

For a good few years after the M7 opened, those roads still were designated N7. The principle of detrunking bypassed national roads came later.

L1011

mackerski wrote: »

For a good few years after the M7 opened, those roads still were designated N7. The principle of detrunking bypassed national roads came later.

Any idea when? I know the N4 through Maynooth was detrunked well over a decade ago (and all signs replaced with R148). At that, they're generally very remiss here with signage, much of the M4 signage still has Castlebar as one of the three destinations!

BluntGuy

Furet wrote: »

Almost all the N8 signs were removed in Tipperary between Cashel, New Inn and Cahir when the first section of the Cashel to Mitchelstown scheme opened in late 2007. Since then, however, none have been taken down. At all.

Nope. As usual, the "ah sure, they'll know where they're going"-attitude when it comes to signage is being clearly demonstrated.

And as for the "N8" signs outside Cahir, well in this case it's even worse, as the old N8 is not only the R639, but it becomes the N24 for a short stretch. However, the signage conflicts itself several times as you drive on that stretch making it a confusing mess.

And speaking of the N24 near there, yuck, dreadful 2+1, through a greenfield site, the waste of it sickens me. But that's for another day...

For more "N8" bad labelling madness, if you're driving on the M50, check out the gantries which have "N7-N8-N9" marked on them. Short-sightedness if I ever saw it. It should say "N7(M7)-M8-M9". At least the new M7 gantries get it right (they have "M8-M9").

Honestly, what do we even have a TSM for? (Well the revised one is three weeks late at this stage).

Amtmann

BluntGuy wrote: »

For more "N8" bad labelling madness, if you're driving on the M50, check out the gantries which have "N7-N8-N9" marked on them. Short-sightedness if I ever saw it. It should say "N7(M7)-M8-M9". At least the new M7 gantries get it right (they have "M8-M9").

And what's the betting these will never be corrected? (At least not for the forseeable future, anyway...)

BTW - I see great potential for an N24 thread here based on your comments above

BluntGuy

Furet wrote: »

BTW - I see great potential for an N24 thread here based on your comments above

Hehe... don't get me started. There is so much I hate about that road.

I won't go into too much detail for fear of putting this off-topic, but it's a windy, twisty horrible mess. Carrick-On-Suir is horrible, as is Tipp-town. And as for the "improved" sections...

The Clonmel bypass, about 370 roundabouts and has more or less just becoming a dumping ground for retail parks (like the Waterford bypass will become unless motorway restrictions are put on it this minute, ya hear me NRA? ). The Piltown/Fiddown scheme, which is the mother-of-all-evil when it comes to road schemes... 2+1... with its horrible wire barrier designed to tear people to shreds upon impact, and "flick" light repeatedly into your face when driving in the dark... the intention I presume is to cause cars to veer off the road and free-up the flow of traffic in "one" sections.

But the bottom-of-the-barrel, is the N24 greenfield 2+1 that was built as part of the M8 Cashel-Mitchelstown scheme... it's a disgusting piece of road both in terms of appearance, the way it convolutes the N24 route making it EASIER to go through Cahir ironically, and the fact that it should've been 2+2 or WS2. Luckily the NRA learned its lesson about 2+1s, but it was too late to save this scheme. It could've been the first 2+2 on the N24 route and set the trend for further similar improvements in the future. Instead, it just added to the mish-mash of hopeless road design that is the N24.

And that is my view on the N24. Something which has nothing to do with Cullahill-Cashel, but I just had to get it out here.

Oh... and btw, just to tie this nicely back into the N8 thread. If you've driven on the N24, you'll notice that all the signs still read "(N8)"... *sigh*... how hard can shoving a patch on be? They did for the Fermoy bypass...

Chris_533976

dannym08 wrote: »

havent taken them down yet....and prob wont any time soon....they'll prob get replaced as time goes on and signs are being renewed...

Or as people crash into them

D'Peoples Voice

BluntGuy wrote: »

One thing, have they taken down the old "N8" signage on the soon-to-be R639 yet? Because they have a habit of not bothering to do that.

Indeed, if you take the left in Fairview and head out to the airport via Artane, they are several signs for the N1, even though if you follow them they bring you to the M1.
Its just an Irish thing that we must get used to:rolleyes:

Amtmann

Ok. These are the final pictures I'll be taking of the scheme. They show the final 500m of the stretch to the roundabout just south of Cullahill.

Amtmann

Just two more. Note the contrast in surface quality in the last photo: a fair amount of the motorway surface is like the asphalt on the left (the asphalt on the right is on the sliproad), especially for the last few hundred meters. I mention it only because of an excellent post made by an engineer over on the infrastructure forum - and, because while I was walking on the motorway today, the surface seemed a little too wet. I'm thinking black ice here.

BluntGuy

Great pictures Furet. Just a few questions about the route if you could:

> Phones? Were they there? I just need as much proof as I can get, that my orange boxes haven't been forgotten! (I know, it's pathetic)

> 1st picture - yuck. Motorway patching. I know it's allowed, but still...
Also, that sign should be illuminated since it's very important. I hope more lights will be provided at the terminus.

> 2nd picture - should there not be an "M8" on that somewhere. It's only a minor thing.

> 3rd picture - I presume they'll have some sort of deflector there to stop traffic smashing into the median. And there will most likely be extra signage I'd presume as well so as to direct traffic to the correct carriageway.

> 4th picture - again, same as above. I just hope extra signs are put up because I fear that could be an accident zone.

> 5th picture - what do the signs say? Particularly the "diamond" sign at the end of the slip-road.

> 6th picture - umm... just to make a comment, er... it looks quite... nice.

> 7th picture - that is quite poor tbh... I still hope it's nice to drive (and yes, I will be driving it December 8th!)

One thing, everything seems pretty much done. Why can't they open it, say, in a week's time for example.

Amtmann

BluntGuy wrote: »

> Phones? Were they there? I just need as much proof as I can get, that my orange boxes haven't been forgotten! (I know, it's pathetic)

I did see an orange pole or two.

> 2nd picture - should there not be an "M8" on that somewhere. It's only a minor thing.

On confirmation signage the route number is on a small square sign that stands atop the main rectangular sign (see the photo on the M8 wiki page, for example), so I'm sure they'll add it. Not all the signing is done yet.

> 3rd picture - I presume they'll have some sort of deflector there to stop traffic smashing into the median. And there will most likely be extra signage I'd presume as well so as to direct traffic to the correct carriageway.

As well as those red and white heavy plastic barriers; I presume these'll be added too, to delineate better.

> 4th picture - again, same as above. I just hope extra signs are put up because I fear that could be an accident zone.

Again, I'm expecting those orange flashing signs to be put up.

> 5th picture - what do the signs say? Particularly the "diamond" sign at the end of the slip-road.

One of them certainly has a "no overtaking" sign - the rest I'm not sure of.

> 7th picture - that is quite poor tbh... I still hope it's nice to drive (and yes, I will be driving it December 8th!)

I will be too. And yes, the surface is a little poor - not much room for percolation/very smooth, perhaps too much so.

One thing, everything seems pretty much done. Why can't they open it, say, in a week's time for example.

There are still a few loose ends to tie up. These are small, but they're there.

Amtmann

EDIT: I should mention that although it might appear small, the sign in the first picture is immense: you could not miss it.

Danno

I drove that way today Furet. I thought they were working on it when I seen the cherrypicker! Looking good now I must say. Glad to see them adding further streetlighting at the border junction too as I notice the lighting is poor at the roundabout north of Urlingford. They should have a circular light in the centre of the roundabout at Urlingford.

Irish and Proud

Furet wrote: »

Ok. These are the final pictures I'll be taking of the scheme. They show the final 500m of the stretch to the roundabout just south of Cullahill.

Again, many thanks for the pics!

Now, about the slip road - it's a death trap IMO - having traffic funnelling from a motorway into a narrow 2 way slip. What I really can't understand is that the engineers went to quite some lengths to install what appears to be a large temporary roundabout and yet, they put in a sub-standard slip which seems like a good opporunity for head on collisions.

Can anyone comment on this?

Regards!

Chris_533976

They also dont seem to have any of those bumpy lines that remind you to slow down.

Looks like people will be hitting a roundabout at 120kmh without thinking of slowing down

spacetweek

Irish and Proud wrote: »

Again, many thanks for the pics!

Now, about the slip road - it's a death trap IMO - having traffic funnelling from a motorway into a narrow 2 way slip. What I really can't understand is that the engineers went to quite some lengths to install what appears to be a large temporary roundabout and yet, they put in a sub-standard slip which seems like a good opporunity for head on collisions.

Can anyone comment on this?

Regards!

Yes, I remember them saying in at the planning stage that the road would start and end at that temp roundabout until the M7/M8 Y motorway is complete in about 18 months. Then the roundabout will be removed.

Amtmann

Guys, I'm sure there'll be lots of warning signs such as flashing orange boards, as well as cones, heavy red-and-white barriers, etc.
Also, the speed limit is signed 100km/h one kilometre south of the slip road. I'm sure that'll be reduced to 50 by temporary signs placed strategically along the end of the route. All that said, it's still too narrow by far.

BluntGuy

Furet wrote: »

Guys, I'm sure there'll be lots of warning signs such as flashing orange boards, as well as cones, heavy red-and-white barriers, etc.
Also, the speed limit is signed 100km/h one kilometre south of the slip road. I'm sure that'll be reduced to 50 by temporary signs placed strategically along the end of the route. All that said, it's still too narrow by far.

Well, seeing as though they went for a single slip-road design (as opposed to two, which is what I thought before), there's really no reason it couldn't be wider. They could've at least put a hard shoulder (or at least a hard-strip) on it.

I would've divided the carriageways right up until the roundabout. From the looks of it, merging could be a bit of a disaster. But we'll wait and see...

BluntGuy

I'm sure will be seeing delineators, musoir road dividers, bollards and plenty of temporary signage popping up over the next week at the Cullahill terminus.

I really do hope they go all out to make it as safe as possible, because I am geniunely worried that people may go down the wrong carriageway.

More lighting is needed as well, illuminated bollards would do the trick here...

Danno

There were roadwork signs either side of the border in addition to the ones there for months now, so I'd say some serious work will be done this week. I am heading to Urlingford tomorrow night so I will report back.

Carawaystick

Isn't this section from this terminal junction to the next junction south going to be subsumed into the tolled section? like watergrasshill but on a much larger scale? so this junction will be temporary and will be removed when the rest of the M8 is built to the M7?

The end of dual carriageways has always been signed well in advance and I'd say here there'll be a ghost island and temporary barriers and a 50 kmh limit imposed long before the Portlaoise bound carriageway ends. using barriers to narrow the northbound section will slow most traffic.

I think the real issue is the lack of a proper permanent junction at this point.

Our man in Havana

How is the terminus reached from Rathdowney and Johnstown?

BluntGuy

Carawaystick wrote: »

Isn't this section from this terminal junction to the next junction south going to be subsumed into the tolled section? like watergrasshill but on a much larger scale? so this junction will be temporary and will be removed when the rest of the M8 is built to the M7?

The end of dual carriageways has always been signed well in advance and I'd say here there'll be a ghost island and temporary barriers and a 50 kmh limit imposed long before the Portlaoise bound carriageway ends. using barriers to narrow the northbound section will slow most traffic.

I think the real issue is the lack of a proper permanent junction at this point.

Yes, and indeed I think I wrote a few posts on this already.

Basically, what has me frustrated is that by not providing a junction at Cullahill, in effect, the toll section of motorway is being extended to junction 3.

Think about it. There will be no non-tolled escape after Urlingford (junction 4). Junction 3 will most likely have toll gantries shoved onto it. Junction 2 will be local access only (meaning that you're going to be led into a toll, or you've already paid), and Junction 1 will funnel you straight into the M7 toll. There will be no escape. It really is quite unfair considering the 12 km Urlingford - Cashel stretch is public motorway.

Of course, if toll gantries aren't stuck onto Junction 3, there'll be no problem. The EIS doesn't have any, so I've got my fingers crossed.

How is the terminus reached from Rathdowney and Johnstown?

Use the R639 to bring yourself to the roundabout.

Our man in Havana

This R639 is the former N8?

BluntGuy

Bond-007 wrote: »

This R639 is the former N8?

Yep.

I wouldn't expect it to be labelled as such for some time though. They are incredibly lazy when it comes to replacing signage.

ipodrocker

yes R639 is the former n8

Amtmann

Official confirmation on AA Roadwatch of Dec. 8 opening. http://www.aaroadwatch.ie/traffic/story.asp?id=97797

BluntGuy

About the AA...

Their route planner had, for months, neglected to include redesignated stretches of motorway, including the new stretches of M8.

So I sent them an e-mail about this, and within a few days they'd corrected this mistake...

Well... kind of.

It may look like a minor thing, but this kind of mistake is completely unnecessary...

Zuisse

Good to hear the motorway's going to open well ahead of schedule - I drive on this road every day so it'll make the journey alot easier.
They seem to be leaving it until the last minute though to connect the M8/N8 at Cullahill. Would have thought that the roundabout would have been in place weeks ago, like the one in Urlingford.
Also, the roundabout at this junction thats already built seems to be quite a bit lower down than the existing road, even though its practically next to the road. Hope it's going to be safe enough and that they're not going to have to modify it later.

biggles007

D'Peoples Voice wrote: »

Ironic for someone calling themselves "Irish and Proud" to be using a means of measurement not accepted in Ireland:D:D:D
Are you sure you're not a plastic paddy? In the Republic of Ireland we use kilometers unless you work for Iarnrod Eireann!
So that would be
11 km - dundalk
9.4 km north of dundalk
29 km Kilbeggan to Athlone
39.5km Cullahil to Cashel
40km Cashel to Micthelstown
8km M50
5.6km port tunnel
22.9 Km Gorey bypass
13.65km Rathnew/Ashford
etc, etc

If "Irish And Proud" was as old as me and had Miles embedded in his brain for nearly 100 years , it's hard to move to km's

BluntGuy

What time are they opening this next Monday?

I will be physically sick if they open it at 3:00 pm or something like that just to facilitate the reems of politicians all seeking to scoop up credit for this road. I will be driving to Dublin early that day and I'm hoping to use that sretch.

I will be disgruntled if I see a perfectly usable road blocked off just because a minister - who had very little to do with the road - "needs" to drive down it first and give another crappy, cliché transport 21 speech.

I sincerely hope it's opened at midnight to public traffic, no need for the "official" celebration to hold it up.