Kickboxing session- Pre and Post meal advice

tomtom15

Hi Guys most of my sessions take place at 8pm - could you advise on what i could be eating before and after the session to maximise benfit of the training. I usually dont get home til well after 10. Is it too late to eat carbs at that stage?

yomchi

Make sure you are carbed up for the session. I find Olimp Carbo ideal for this, if you're not into powders then fruit like Pineapple and Mango good for keeping glycogen stores propped up. Have your last meal before training full of complex carbs like brown rice or pasta. Last but not least, be tipped up with water for the session.

Post workout, you could have some pineapple/fruit again, and finish with a protein shake. If you're worried about calories at night time take 2 scoops of RAM right at the end of your session. Athletes who train primarily cardio based sessions don't need to worry too much about consuming carbs at night, as long as it's the right type at the right quantity.

Hope that helps

Al_Fernz

After years of tinkering this is what works for me -

If I'm training at 8 I would eat 2 chicken fillets, brown pasta and spinach/brocolli at around 630. This would be digested by the time I train and give me lots of energy. And after training I would have cottage cheese, whey and peanut butter mixed up with maybe a glass of milk. Sometimes I might have a scoop of RAM X immediately after depending on how hard a session it was.

yomchi

Al_Fernz wrote: »

After years of tinkering this is what works for me -

If I'm training at 8 I would eat 2 chicken fillets, brown pasta and spinach/brocolli at around 630. This would be digested by the time I train and give me lots of energy. And after training I would have cottage cheese, whey and peanut butter mixed up with maybe a glass of milk. Sometimes I might have a scoop of RAM X immediately after depending on how hard a session it was.

Hi mate,
The use of anything high in fats (peanut butter and cottage cheese) post work out usually hampers the fast uptake of carbs and protein needed after a good session. The Fats in these foods slow down the digestive system throwing a spanner in the works of replenishing within that 'window' .

Al_Fernz

Yeah, I know but if I'm training at night I always eat this before I go to bed. If I don't I will wake up in the middle of the night starving. Disturbing my sleep probably hampers my recovery more.

As I said - if the session is in anyway balls to the wall I will have a RAM X shake before I stretch and shower and then eat my pre-bed snack.

Roper

All of the above is good advice but I'd also recommend trial and error with your own body too, within the good advice above.

Personally, I can eat 10 minutes before a session and be able to put a good 90 minutes in, but others will feel like their dinner is coming up if the eat less than 2 hours before. It also depends on the type of session. I find a clinch class to feel more like a lifting session so I tend to schedule my eating that way too.

I would agree with Jon though stay away from the stodgy fats afterwards. Lots of people think "Woohoo I trained time for some chips now" but the window of eat lots afterwards isn't that forgiving.

Oh and prehydration and rehydration. In fact, just call it hydration. I tend towards hypertonic slightly before and during and isotonic afterwards if they're available. If not I just drink water and lots thereof.

LeggyBrunette

Would chicken, brown rice and veg be ok 1.5 hours before kickboxing, and then half an hour after the session, would a bowl of brown rice be ok?

yomchi

LeggyBrunette wrote: »

Would chicken, brown rice and veg be ok 1.5 hours before kickboxing, and then half an hour after the session, would a bowl of brown rice be ok?

Well it's not going to kill you, so in essence yes it's ok.
Everybody is different and want different goals, train at different times and have different levels of experience.

If you are at a stage where your training is difficult in either Aerobic or anaerobic levels you will probably be best having your meals specific to post work out. So while brown rice is a slow release carb, you'll be needing a fast acting carb to replenish quickly.

Al_Fernz

Sounds OK, but as I was saying tinker with this and see what works for you. Also try and get some protein in after.

yomchi

Fruit is the king of post workout natural carb sources, the fructose within them is a great glycogen replacer, failing that dextrose is also one of the top sources. Whey is the king of post work out protein sources.

Al_Fernz

Apologies for being a bit anal here but I wouldn't say fructose is the most optimal form of glycogen replacement PWO.

http://www.abcbodybuilding.com/windowofopportunity.php

"You also want to stay far away from any fat and fructose sources post-workout. Fructose will not replenish muscle glycogen but rather will replenish liver glycogen. Fat severely delays digestion because it metabolically requires so many more processes to break down."

But as I was saying thats only if you're being really anal about it.

yomchi

Al_Fernz wrote: »

Apologies for being a bit anal here but I wouldn't say fructose is the most optimal form of glycogen replacement PWO.

http://www.abcbodybuilding.com/windowofopportunity.php

"You also want to stay far away from any fat and fructose sources post-workout. Fructose will not replenish muscle glycogen but rather will replenish liver glycogen. Fat severely delays digestion because it metabolically requires so many more processes to break down."

But as I was saying thats only if you're being really anal about it.

Nah thats a bit off mate. AFAIK the muscles hold tiny amounts of glycogen and this isn't used externally as glucose which is tranfered to the blood. I think its about 2% of muscle is glycogen. The liver on the other hand holds great amounts that can be used by other organs including the muscles.

yomchi

Here's some info i dug up on it;

Function and regulation of liver glycogen
As a meal containing carbohydrates is eaten and digested, blood glucose levels rise, and the pancreas secretes insulin. Glucose from the portal vein enters the liver cells (hepatocytes). Insulin acts on the hepatocytes to stimulate the action of several enzymes, including glycogen synthase. Glucose molecules are added to the chains of glycogen as long as both insulin and glucose remain plentiful. In this postprandial or "fed" state, the liver takes in more glucose from the blood than it releases.

After a meal has been digested and glucose levels begin to fall, insulin secretion is reduced, and glycogen synthesis stops. About four hours after a meal[citation needed], glycogen begins to be broken down and converted again to glucose. Glycogen phosphorylase is the primary enzyme of glycogen breakdown. For the next 8–12 hours, glucose derived from liver glycogen will be the primary source of blood glucose to be used by the rest of the body for fuel.

Glucagon is another hormone produced by the pancreas, which in many respects serves as a counter-signal to insulin. When the blood sugar begins to fall below normal, glucagon is secreted in increasing amounts. It stimulates glycogen breakdown into glucose even when insulin levels are abnormally high.


[edit] In muscle and other cells
Muscle cell glycogen appears to function as an immediate reserve source of available glucose for muscle cells. Other cells that contain small amounts use it locally as well. Muscle cells lack glucose-6-phosphatase enzyme, so they lack the ability to pass glucose into the blood, so the glycogen they store internally is destined for internal use and is not shared with other cells, unlike liver cells.

Al_Fernz

Jon wrote: »

[edit] In muscle and other cells
Muscle cell glycogen appears to function as an immediate reserve source of available glucose for muscle cells. Other cells that contain small amounts use it locally as well. Muscle cells lack glucose-6-phosphatase enzyme, so they lack the ability to pass glucose into the blood, so the glycogen they store internally is destined for internal use and is not shared with other cells, unlike liver cells.

But in any resistance activities you use glycogen that is stored in the muscle.

From http://www.unm.edu/~lkravitz/Article%20folder/glycogen.html

The Role of Glycogen in Aerobic and Resistance Exercise
The role of glycogen (stored carbohydrate in muscle) in aerobic exercise has been clearly shown to be associated with increased work output and duration (Haff et al., 1999).

Energy for Resistance Exercise
Due to the intense and short-term nature of individual bouts of resistance training, it would seem likely that this activity would be highly dependent upon muscle glycogen for ATP provision

If the glycogen in muscle is depleted shouldn't the athelete be concerned with replacing this as quick as possible?

Dextrose and maltodexrin do this. I know for a fact that fruit or fructose does not. A family member of mine is diabetic and eating fruit does not alter the blood sugar level significantly- therefore fructose is slow digesting.

yomchi

In fact i'll concede a point here. Having gone off and read up on Fructose, I've found that it is not ideal for recovery! Seeing as Fructose needs to be converted to glucose in a slow process before the body uses it.
So something new learned today - Al appreciate the debate!

Vegeta

So are there any wholefoods that have a decent amount of dextrose and maltodexrin.

Failing wholefoods what are people using (other than supps)

Black Swan

Did KB for a couple of years, but I was a lot younger then... Have trained, conditioned, and dieted for taekwondo tournaments over the past few years, so I'll speak from that perspective. I do pasta the day before (evening meal), and eat light before and after on the day of the competition, no matter what the time of the event (especially before the event). When I ate too much before, I felt heavy, as if my body was trying to do too much (digest and fight); plus, if I was nervous, I didn't want to throw-up on the ref or my cornerman.

Al_Fernz

Vegeta wrote: »

So are there any wholefoods that have a decent amount of dextrose and maltodexrin.

Failing wholefoods what are people using (other than supps)

AFAIK you can get dextrose and maltodexrin in most supermarket's baking sections.

G86

Sorry to hijack this thread but I started with a PT last year and I've really upped my game in the gym since, and now I'd love to get into kick boxing/marital arts aswell. I was actually googling it there when I checked this forum! I'm looking for somewhere I can start with other beginners because to be honest I'd feel very intimidated in a normal class. I'm the same in the gym, I hate the first few days of a new program, until I know what I'm doing inside out.

I'm also wondering on pricing etc as it will probably be a factor I'd have to consider.

If anyone can give me any links/info that'd be great!

cheers!

Al_Fernz

Check out the MA forum.

Classes can be between anything from €5-€10 an hour.

Khannie

Beginners Muay Thai in the Bridgestone gym (In town. Up Arbour hill way) Monday to Thursday 7pm - 8.15pm. €7 a class. Changed my life. Tub o' lard to 6 pack.

Black Swan

Al_Fernz wrote: »

Check out the MA forum.

G86:
It's mostly MMA and not KB or traditional MA. Worth a visit, but also shop around.

yomchi

G86 wrote: »

Sorry to hijack this thread but I started with a PT last year and I've really upped my game in the gym since, and now I'd love to get into kick boxing/marital arts aswell. I was actually googling it there when I checked this forum! I'm looking for somewhere I can start with other beginners because to be honest I'd feel very intimidated in a normal class. I'm the same in the gym, I hate the first few days of a new program, until I know what I'm doing inside out.

I'm also wondering on pricing etc as it will probably be a factor I'd have to consider.

If anyone can give me any links/info that'd be great!

cheers!

What area are you in?

tomtom15

hi guys, what i currently eat is something like a chicken curry with brown rice before training and then a tuna sandwich with brown bread after. is that ok?

Al_Fernz

It sounds OK - but I suppose the question should be is it working for you ATM. If you're training with lots of energy, recovering from sessions well and generally progressing then I would give it the thumbs up. If you answer no to any of these questions and have been doing this for over a month then it might be an area to address.

If your energy is slipping in sessions have a look at what you're eating pre-training, what time you're eating it at and portions. If your recovery is poor you may wish to have something like a lucozade to replenish muscle glycogen and salts PWO. As was said before you will need to tinker with this and if something works keep doing it.

G86

I'm in Phibsboro but I work on lower baggot street so either area or around town would be best for me.
I'll check out that one near arbour hill.....if I can figure out where arbour hill is....

Roper

If you're in Phibsboro you're just a hop away from me www.ko-martialarts.com

We've a raft of beginners in the muay thai at the moment so you won't be the only one starting out. You can give me a shout on 085-8320174 if you're interested. Bridgestone is very good too.

yomchi

G86 wrote: »

I'm in Phibsboro but I work on lower baggot street so either area or around town would be best for me.
I'll check out that one near arbour hill.....if I can figure out where arbour hill is....

Funnily enough you're just a hop away from me too

www.pilsung-itf.com for Taekwon-Do and Kickboxing

G86

Thanks

Would I be right in saying that muay thai is like kick boxing but with use of uper body as well? Theres so many different types I'm just not sure which I want to do.

I want something thats challenging fitness wise with a competitive aspect to it also.

Roper

Jon wrote: »

Funnily enough you're just a hop away from me too

How strange!

Muay Thai uses elbows, knees and clinch, as well as many other differences. It's all good though. The best one for you is the one you enjoy the most.

yomchi

I want something thats challenging fitness wise with a competitive aspect to it also.

Well if it's competition you're after, you'll be good with us!

We do a hell of a lot of tournaments, both in Taekwon-Do and Kickboxing. We have competitors doing both full and light contact kickboxing. The training for this is also very demanding.
Feel free to pop down for a session and see what you think.


*this is like a dance off with Roper... your move Barry

G86

Haha class I've gone from not knowing where to call to having 2 numbers
Yea what I'd like to do is give it a go before committing to a set of classes.

Roper

We can knee and elbow people and we don't wear roller disco pants...

END OF!

G86

ok so one is kickboxing with fancy clothes..and the other is kickboxing with knees and elbows???

yomchi

G86 wrote: »

ok so one is kickboxing with fancy clothes..and the other is kickboxing with knees and elbows???

Erm.. fancy clothes? Not sure where that comes from. We were the traditional ITF uniform for Taekwon-Do and kick bottoms for kickboxing. Same as any where really.

we don't wear roller disco pants...

Says he who comes from AIMAA :D

G86

I'm just kidding with ye,

Cheers for the info guys.

yomchi

G86 wrote: »

I'm just kidding with ye,

Cheers for the info guys.

most welcome!

G86

Jon wrote: »

most welcome!

Hey, that was me that called you about the lessons there on Monday, I was thinking you may not have realised. See you next week!

dave80

Jon wrote: »

Seeing as Fructose needs to be converted to glucose in a slow process before the body uses it.

So that would suggest that glucose would be best taken after a workout as there is no conversion