N22 - Macroom to Ballyvourney (Macroom Bypass) [open to traffic]

James 007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121332180#Comment_121332180

Only 5 days ago Leo was in South Korea at the border

Taoiseach Leo Varadkar has today visited the demilitarised zone dividing the Korean Peninsula as part of the Team Ireland Trade Mission

Taoiseach Leo Varadkar steps onto North Korean soil on ‘sobering’ historic visit to demilitarised zone | Independent.ie

Today, I can't help but feel if he is thinking he is in North Korea to meet the Healy Raes 🤣

deirdremf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121338575#Comment_121338575

major cities like ... Limerick

It's not often that you get to miss a major city while you blink.

65535

You mention 'LILO' ?

Are these the junctions that are on the Macroom Bypass ?

That's what I mean -

When I said 'If only we could do the same between Cork and Limerick' - what I meant was - build a Dual Carrigeway

confidentjosh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121339063#Comment_121339063

Sorry to correct you but Limerick is a major city in Irish terms and a major population centre. Not in international terms obviously.

confidentjosh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121339419#Comment_121339419

Yep, LILOs and roundabouts are the junctions on it.

Given the huge numbers using the existing N20, Cork - Limerick will require a motorway. Which is technically a higher spec dual carriageway but also a lot more expensive than the narrow 2+2 dual carriageway built for the N22.

65535

Quote "and therefore high powered junctions with longer slip roads will be required." - I KNOW....

Those 'right angle junctions' without merging are a disaster waiting to happen on the Macroom Bypass and on other roads.

AugustusMinimus

Would proper flood have cost much more to have built.

Yes, I understand that 2+2 is a lesser standard compared to HQDC / Motorway. However, what’s the cost / benefit by going with no slips and stops signs at entrances over full slip roads?

People are idiots and having driven on this road a total of twice, I’ve had 2 incidents where people have pulled out in front of me forcing me both times to go into the overtaking lane to avoid an accident.

chooseusername

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121340666#Comment_121340666

I treat it as I would someone on a slip road about to merge and move over in good time to allow them to merge/ enter safely.

AugustusMinimus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121340744#Comment_121340744

Certainly what I’ve started to do too.

lordleitrim

I always move to the outer lane even on higher spec motorways where there are LILOs (Roscrea Junction on M7 for example) as the lead time for being able to see merging cars at such junctions is minimal. In fact I generally do it at all merging junctions on motorways as there is inevitably some motorists who will only join a motorway at 30kph regardless of free flow conditions.

Sounds like it's even more imperative to do so on this road...

AugustusMinimus

Given there is a stop sign on each entrance, assume that both lanes need to be empty before you can enter the road?

creedp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121341093#Comment_121341093

Its essential but what happens when it doesn't happen?

serfboard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121341093#Comment_121341093

If you think that the Roscrea junction on the M7 is bad (and it's not great), you should check out the (IMO) dangerous junctions 13 and 14 on the M18:

(Google Streetview)

If you are already on the M18, you can only drive past these junctions on the outer lane because some idiot will come flying around the bend and straight onto the motorway.

In general though, I've noticed a severe decline in driving standards in 2023 - worse I think then it was before the pandemic. On single-carriageway roads, people seem to emerge from side roads straight onto main roads either without looking, or doing this crack of pretending that the hard shoulder is a merge lane.

So it's no surprise at all to me to read reports of what people are doing on the new N22.

Cookiemunster

The N22 has no merge lane or hard shoulder, so it's straight onto the driving lane from a stopped position. Cars entering the M18 at least have time to get up some sort of speed before entering the driving lane.

Baldilocks

The 'lack of' and/or 'length of' the slips on and off ANY dual carriageway/motorway, is at best poor practice.

where possible good engineering practice should be used to mitigate the likelihood of an accident.

I doubt that providing decent on/off slips would have had a significant impact on the overall cost, perhaps 2%? Money well spent IMO

yerwanthere123

The view of oncoming traffic at the Toonlane slip road heading westbound is slightly obscured by two signs on the right hand side, seems a bit dodgy to me. Can see it catching some people out.

Pete_Cavan

I wouldn't consider having merging lanes for joining DC that much safer, I've seen plenty of drivers who think they are entitled to pull over into the driving lane once they reach the end of the merging lane, regardless what speed they are doing or what other traffic is in the driving lane. At least with the stop signs for those joining, it is clear who is at fault for any accidents.

I'd say decelerating lanes are more important for exits, without them you have people breaking hard in the driving lane.

Charles Babbage

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121341396#Comment_121341396

The point is that the N22 has a low volume of traffic. You are expected to wait until there is a gap in the traffic and you can move out and accelerate without disrupting other traffic, this is not a long wait given the traffic volume.

Dodgy LILOS don't envisage waiting and IMHO should have a proper long acceleration lane.

Water John

Travelled Limerick - Mallow yesterday and today. That is the next section that needs to be done.

AugustusMinimus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121343396#Comment_121343396

You’d imagine having merging lanes should be much safer as the relative velocities between cars in the event of an accident should be much lower.

In the case of the N22 there’s a possibility of a 100kph car impacting a near stationery car.

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121344261#Comment_121344261

There must be thousands of locations around the country where there’s a possibility of a 100kph car impacting a near stationery car turning onto the road. Basically every junction on every 100kph road in the country, plus the vast majority come with the added danger of traffic coming from both sides. It is clearly not practical/possible to provide merging lanes everywhere, that's why we have stop signs.

Drivers are required to obey signs and use there judgement on when is a suitable opportunity to join the road. The new DC N22 is obviously much safer than most other similar speed junctions as there is a second lane where vehicles already on the road can move into and right turns are not possible.

Mr.CoolGuy

So has anyone on this thread driven between Killarney and Cork at peak or non-peak times since Monday? How long did the drive take and how does it compare to 3.5 years ago?

AugustusMinimus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121345497#Comment_121345497

Everything is relative. The Ballybeg Bends on the N20 are safe if drivers stick to the limit. I don’t think anyone in here will say that the Ballybeg Bends are acceptable however.

Ultimately the junctions on the N22 were a design choice. It was safety with traffic levels in mind vs budget. They were deemed not worth it. Only time will tell if they weren’t.

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121346102#Comment_121346102

I'm not sure what you are trying to say here, are you advocating for a programme of works to add long merging lanes for every side road joining a 100kph road? Ultimately, there are countless locations where traffic has to join a 100kph road from a standing start. If it is deemed unsafe on the new N22 where good sightlines are provided, traffic only comes from one side and a second lane is available to traffic already on the road, then it must be far more dangerous at those other locations.

The safety of every inch of road relies on drivers following the rules of the road, obeying signage/road markings and using good judgment. If a driver decides to ignore a stop sign and plough out onto a main road without consideration for traffic already on the road, that is not a failure of road design.

AugustusMinimus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121346448#Comment_121346448

Of course not. I’m questioning whether current 2+2 design specifications make sense from a cost / benefit analysis.

What for instance is the saving money wise on a project like this by not having slips on each junction?

I agree that ultimately, the problem is drivers who will miss the stop sign and just blindly pull onto the road. Road design has to take these kind of drivers into account too though in order to try to minimise crashes as much as reasonably possible.

Water John

Used the slip No 2 at Ballincollig onto the N22 heading into the city today. Driver ahead of me did not use the slip to accelerate, so three of us were emerging slowly onto the main road and running out of space. Emerging from a stopped position would have been safer, oddly enough.

KrisW1001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121347013#Comment_121347013

yes, there's a safety benefit in making drivers stop and check their surroundings before joining the road.

Short slips are known to be more dangerous than having no slip lane at all, as the presence of a merging lane encourages drivers to join without thinking. That's fine if the lane is long enough for them to get to to speed, but very bad if they then get forced into the main lane before they've found a safe gap.

chooseusername

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121347013#Comment_121347013

I've never had to use it, but it looks like you have about 50 mtrs to merge onto a 120km DC. Luckily the slip road is downhill and traffic on the DC have a good view of the slip road and could move over for you (if they chose to do so). But you could be behind a tractor or a jeep pulling a trailer on the slip road.

N40.jpg

Water John

You can accelerate quickly quite easily, as you say it's downhill, but this guy didn't and we were all, almost in slow motion being squeezed. Slow drivers can be a danger.