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Casino raided and shut down by Gardai

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    #32
    glenjamin
    Registered Users Posts: 2,453 ✭✭✭glenjamin


    YULETIRED wrote: »
    the whole sorry episode caught on camera fking cops

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGVwN8vlLrc&feature=related


    LMAO!!!!


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    #33
    Matt Santos
    Registered Users Posts: 342 ✭✭Matt Santos


    ElectraBlue wrote: »
    Doubt if anyone will get their money back... That receipt is just a slip of paper to state that your money is now 'evidence' - the 'evidence' can be returned to you at the end of the investigation in the form they were confiscated (chips) which will be worthless if the Casino doesn't re-open and/or other clubs refuse to accept them...

    In fairness I was assured by the Garda that took my details that I would be reimbursed with cash at the appropriate time.
    He could not say enough that the people found on were not commiting any crime and that it was his opinion that a judge would certainly rule that anyone who money had been seized on would be awarded it back.
    I think that it is extremely relevant that all the cash that was on the premises was seized also. In my view that says that the State can now award money back from this source. I will not be discarding my receipt anyway.
    I would have thought this would have had more interest than this to be honest. Surely there are casino houses out there now wondering what are the implecations for their operation now?


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    #34
    Chucky the tree
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,341 ✭✭✭✭Chucky the tree


    Matt Santos wrote: »
    I would have thought this would have had more interest than this to be honest. Surely there are casino houses out there now wondering what are the implecations for their operation now?




    If this was a serious crackdown in casino's by the Gardai/powers that be they wouldnt of just raided one place, we would of heard stories of other places being turned over.


    And if there is 2 clubs in clonmel, both would of been done on the same night. This seems like it's specially against this clubs owners for whatever reason.


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    #35
    ElectraBlue
    Registered Users Posts: 338 ✭✭ElectraBlue


    Matt Santos wrote: »
    In fairness I was assured by the Garda that took my details that I would be reimbursed with cash at the appropriate time.
    He could not say enough that the people found on were not commiting any crime and that it was his opinion that a judge would certainly rule that anyone who money had been seized on would be awarded it back.
    I think that it is extremely relevant that all the cash that was on the premises was seized also. In my view that says that the State can now award money back from this source. I will not be discarding my receipt anyway.
    I would have thought this would have had more interest than this to be honest. Surely there are casino houses out there now wondering what are the implecations for their operation now?

    If you got that reassurance in writing - then fine, just prepared to really have to work at getting it back!

    It's not illegal to have a private members club for profit (but illegal if you don't enforce the reserved use for members); its not illegal to serve alcohol for free in such a club (but it is illegal to sell alcohol without a licence); its not illegal to play poker or 'run a book' - but its illegal to defraud someone knowingly via gambling (i.e. fixing a race) or allow under 18's to gamble.

    There's still loopholes that allows private member clubs to exist, none have been closed recently (I'm open to correction here...) to cause other casinos to worry. I'm betting this raid has nothing to do with Casinos in general but other suspect activities or individuals.


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    #36
    tipp86
    Registered Users Posts: 1,822 ✭✭✭tipp86


    I basically think they were just sick of people wandering out of there drunk at all hours, free drink to the extent that was been given out up there just encoruaged every fool to go up for a look.

    They managed to get away with it in carlow but there location in clonmel is basically opposite the gardai station.

    There is two clubs in the town but the big slick ran club shuts down on a saturday night mainly to avoid any bother.

    Im also pretty certain i never joined as a member and i most certainally never signed in on entrance to the premises.

    I just wonder if this is brought through the judical system will the results of the case have a more widespread effect on the casino industry in ireland.The results of this case if it does go to court will set a legal precedent for these clubs.


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    #37
    RoundTower
    Registered Users Posts: 5,083 ✭✭✭RoundTower


    Matt Santos wrote: »
    Surely there are casino houses out there now wondering what are the implecations for their operation now?

    perhaps there are, but they don't feel the need to speculate about the issue on boards?


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    #38
    Daithio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,679 ✭✭✭Daithio


    I'd bet my life that it has something to do with the fact that it was probably taking customers from the local pubs.


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    #39
    blainj2
    Registered Users Posts: 276 ✭✭blainj2


    Sounds like a couple of lads got some gardai uniforms and a bright idea and decided they wanted to make some money at a casino for a change!

    Actually this idea isnt bad im of to look for some uniforms online now..


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    #40
    pgodkin
    Registered Users Posts: 650 ✭✭✭pgodkin


    The Al Lad wrote: »
    Just got off the phone to a garda mate of mine who told me the true story behind this, and said the gardai will be releasing this statement later on today

    " Yesterday afternoon, members of An Garda Shicaloni were reading boards.ie when they came across a thread in which nicnicnic claimed to have WON a tournament in Clonmel, Gardai decided to close this casino with immediate effect for allowing such a bad player to win on their premises, all confiscated funds will now go towards the Garda christmas patry the Garda benevolant fund"

    lol

    [QUOTE/]"Don't have any info on Clonmel situation, but if any club operators are reading this you MUST have a record of all members including date of birth, address & a copy of positive ID. (passport or driving license) All guests of member must also produce ID and a record must be kept. All members must sign in on each day they entre the club and the signing in book must be kept for inspection.

    If the above is not done, then you are not operating a private members club and are, in effect, operating a public casino which is illegal."[/QUOTE]

    will have to do some doctoring on the sign in books at my local club!! u are suspose to sign in i try not to!!


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    #41
    DeadParrot
    Registered Users Posts: 2,764 ✭✭✭DeadParrot


    mcaul wrote: »
    Don't have any info on Clonmel situation, but if any club operators are reading this you MUST have a record of all members including date of birth, address & a copy of positive ID. (passport or driving license) All guests of member must also produce ID and a record must be kept. All members must sign in on each day they entre the club and the signing in book must be kept for inspection.

    If the above is not done, then you are not operating a private members club and are, in effect, operating a public casino which is illegal.


    I know at least 2 places in Dublin where that is not asked or required


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    #42
    RedJoker
    Registered Users Posts: 1,461 ✭✭✭RedJoker


    AFAIK, there's a maximum number of gambling licenses per area. Those that own that license can open a casino without registering members or getting their details. They must keep a sign-in log though.

    Casinos that don't have that license set up as "private member clubs" and must have all their member's details.


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    #43
    ghostface ste
    Registered Users Posts: 717 ✭✭✭ghostface ste


    Article about this on page 3 of the times today which only states that the gardai suspected the casino was operating 'illegally'. It seems to suggest that the gardai are trying to crack down on private members clubs such as this one seems to have been


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    #44
    corkie123
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,048 ✭✭✭corkie123


    RedJoker wrote: »
    AFAIK, there's a maximum number of gambling licenses per area. Those that own that license can open a casino without registering members or getting their details. They must keep a sign-in log though.

    Casinos that don't have that license set up as "private member clubs" and must have all their member's details.

    wat gaming license is that red as far as i know there is no license in irish law that allow casino yet . but they dont know yet wat there going to do about all the casino that opened up over the years .

    we see i say soon wats going to happen . then probley back to the old day pub poker :eek::eek::eek::eek:


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    #45
    hotspur
    Registered Users Posts: 2,327 ✭✭✭hotspur


    RedJoker wrote: »
    AFAIK, there's a maximum number of gambling licenses per area. Those that own that license can open a casino without registering members or getting their details. They must keep a sign-in log though.

    This isn't true. There is no legal provision for casinos in Ireland, there are no licenses in existence for them.


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    #46
    RedJoker
    Registered Users Posts: 1,461 ✭✭✭RedJoker


    corkie123 wrote: »
    wat gaming license is that red as far as i know there is no license in irish law that allow casino yet . but they dont know yet wat there going to do about all the casino that opened up over the years .

    we see i say soon wats going to happen . then probley back to the old day pub poker :eek::eek::eek::eek:
    hotspur wrote: »
    This isn't true. There is no legal provision for casinos in Ireland, there are no licenses in existence for them.

    I worked in the Shangri La in Cork for the summer and this was what I was told. They don't have members and just have a sign-in book at the desk.


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    #47
    RoundTower
    Registered Users Posts: 5,083 ✭✭✭RoundTower


    hotspur wrote: »
    This isn't true. There is no legal provision for casinos in Ireland, there are no licenses in existence for them.

    there is legal provision for gaming licenses though. What exactly do they allow?


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    #48
    tipp86
    Registered Users Posts: 1,822 ✭✭✭tipp86


    They certainly had a lax manner on the sign in part of things which could haunt them.


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    #49
    hotspur
    Registered Users Posts: 2,327 ✭✭✭hotspur


    RoundTower wrote: »
    there is legal provision for gaming licenses though. What exactly do they allow?


    Well obviously there are bookmaker's licenses, but these are covered under the 1931 Betting Act and not considered gaming in the sense we are talking about. Our gaming legislation pretty much covers old fashioned circus and carnival gaming, amusement hall and funfair gaming (pretty much slots), and lotteries (including bingo). These are the things you can get a gaming license for.

    Shangri La lied to you Redjoker.


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    #50
    RoundTower
    Registered Users Posts: 5,083 ✭✭✭RoundTower


    hotspur wrote: »
    Well obviously there are bookmaker's licenses, but these are covered under the 1931 Betting Act and not considered gaming in the sense we are talking about. Our gaming legislation pretty much covers old fashioned circus and carnival gaming, amusement hall and funfair gaming (pretty much slots), and lotteries (including bingo). These are the things you can get a gaming license for.

    Shangri La lied to you Redjoker.

    I took a look through the Gaming and Lotteries Act (before I saw you'd written this), I was thinking of the amusement hall gaming where you can win no more than 10 shillings. Interestingly "amusement hall" is never defined, it is just somwhere where there are "forms of entertainment other than gaming".


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    #51
    hotspur
    Registered Users Posts: 2,327 ✭✭✭hotspur


    Flipper is looking to set up a place with slot machines down in Cork I believe. At least there it would be legal, unlike Dr Quirkeys et al. in Dublin.


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    #52
    RoundTower
    Registered Users Posts: 5,083 ✭✭✭RoundTower


    Tullamore is probably a good spot for a private members card club right now, if you know the right people.


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    #53
    CelticPhantom
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 218 ✭✭CelticPhantom


    RoundTower wrote: »
    Tullamore is probably a good spot for a private members card club right now, if you know the right people.
    Why so RT?


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    #54
    5starpool
    Subscribers Posts: 32,850 ✭✭✭✭5starpool


    Is this Brian Cowen related RT?


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    #55
    green123
    Registered Users Posts: 1,673 ✭✭✭green123


    hotspur wrote: »
    Flipper is looking to set up a place with slot machines down in Cork I believe. At least there it would be legal, unlike Dr Quirkeys et al. in Dublin.

    Dr Quirkeys is illegal ?
    or is there some difference between cork and dublin ?


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    #56
    DeVore
    Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 32,387 Mod ✭✭✭✭DeVore


    Lads, ideally we should stay away from speculating about what did or didnt happen in the club in question as its bound to become an ongoing case.

    Questions regarding the law, the operation of clubs in general and what should be done about this are all well and good, lets just keep away from specifics about what happened in the club on the night in question or before, because that stuff is generally referred to as "evidence" :)

    We have no way to show if a certain person/people were there or are telling the truth or may have an ulterior motive etc. I have no reason to think that, but I have no reason NOT to think it either.

    Lets just stay away from anything which could prejudice the case.

    DeV.


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    #57
    hotspur
    Registered Users Posts: 2,327 ✭✭✭hotspur


    green123 wrote: »
    Dr Quirkeys is illegal ?
    or is there some difference between cork and dublin ?

    Yes, it is a mater for local authorities whether they endorse the section of the Gaming & Lotteries Act which pertains to amusement hall gaming. Cork Corporation and Cork City Council have, but Dublin City Council rescinded it in the 1980's due to worries about people becoming addicted to slot machines. So to the best of my knowledge any slot machines in Dublin City Council territory amusement halls should constitute illegal gaming under the law. And I'm not aware of any loophole that permits it.


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    #58
    sdtipp@gmail.co
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2 ✭sdtipp@gmail.co


    i asked a senior member of the clonmel gardai about the atlantis casino raid and he said straight out that there was no such thing as a private members club.well i hope that THE DONOUGHMORE CLUB which is straight across from the court house will also be shut down and raided but i seriously doubt this as the members include judges,solicitors,clonmel business men and senior gardai.in the club there is a bar,snooker table and there can be found a regular game of draw poker.oh and women are allowed but only on saturdays.this club is approx 60-70 years old and you need a 4 digit code to gain entry at the front door.shame on the gardai for picking on 1 out of 3 clube currently operating in clonmel.tut tut tut


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    #59
    tipp86
    Registered Users Posts: 1,822 ✭✭✭tipp86


    sdtipp@gmail.co wrote: »
    i asked a senior member of the clonmel gardai about the atlantis casino raid and he said straight out that there was no such thing as a private members club.well i hope that THE DONOUGHMORE CLUB which is straight across from the court house will also be shut down and raided but i seriously doubt this as the members include judges,solicitors,clonmel business men and senior gardai.in the club there is a bar,snooker table and there can be found a regular game of draw poker.oh and women are allowed but only on saturdays.this club is approx 60-70 years old and you need a 4 digit code to gain entry at the front door.shame on the gardai for picking on 1 out of 3 clube currently operating in clonmel.tut tut tut

    what:confused::confused::confused:


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    #60
    Pasodobel
    Closed Accounts Posts: 42 ✭Pasodobel


    tipp86 wrote: »
    what:confused::confused::confused:

    Ya it's a private members club, you need to be a member of/know some1 in the hierarchy of the Clonmel population to gain access. TBH its meant to be old, dingy and smelly.....the posh boyos just love it cos there is no riff raff there. Its nothing like the other 2 clubs tho, I don't know if it's even a profit making club and it definitely will not be getting raided/shut down by the Gardai.


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    #61
    sdtipp@gmail.co
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2 ✭sdtipp@gmail.co


    hopefully some1 from atlantis casino can use this info in their fight to remain open.its just a disgrace what has happened.i hear what ur saying paso but it should be raid 1 raid all or none at all.yes the donoghmore is old but its not smelly or dingy.in fact its quite clean with a live in caretaker.it also has a regular cleaner and it makes a small profit yearly.the front room has a library and seating area with what looks like a 50 inch plasma tv.the bar is clean and it serves a nice pint if u can put up with the hob nob banter these folk spew out.:]


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