breeding a boxer dog?

peasant

Sorry, morganna, that wasn't my intention

Morganna

peasant wrote: »

Sorry, morganna, that wasn't my intention

Appology accepted .It does make me mad though when breeders or show people or otherwise breed from dogs with hereditary defects .No dog with a hereditary defect or unsuitable temperament or bad conformation should be bred from .And anyone selling pups should really check the home first .

lightening

red_ice wrote: »

If you are selling them for showing then you really cant play with the pups at all.... Get the OP done asap, and try have it ready by the time you are selling the pups.... All healthy dogs come across problems.... these illness come as part of the breed... its no skin off my noise what he/she decides to do with the pups..... word will spread if its a good quality pup and you could start to make a pretty penny off of it too.... Jesus, someone slap this guy

Nice. I really don't feel like trusting breeders now. Peasant, he is doing you a favour, more people reading this will go after unwanted dogs now. He is painting the breeder fraternity as money hungry nuts who will breed anything, hide any defect to "make a pretty penny".

red_ice

peasant wrote: »

Read your posts over from the beginning and reflect on what you've written.

First you say not to play with pups, then you do, then you say only to do so in certain cases and not in others ...but at no point do you differentiate between necessary socialisation, gentle handling and inappropriate mangling of pups by little children ...you just call it "play".

ok, well now we can progress. I have stated that there needs to be interaction with the dogs and of course you can chuck a ball with them. I was saying from a showing pov you cant play with them like an average dog. I will be more spacific with my termanology from now on. Its clear that im the 'bad guy' in this conversation, so ill pick my words from now on.

peasant wrote: »

The real gem is this though:

Will you ever understand that a CKC with heart disease or a GS with hip dysplasia is NOT a healthy dog? It may win as many shows as it wants, that dog is sick.

I should really put this straight, i really dont care about showing dogs etc - that was my fathers passion. Im simply trying to pass on advice on what is best for the pups if she wants to sell them. That aside, I do understand that those deseaes etc make the dog unhealthy, but they still live a good life. The GS(my personal fav breed) is nearly 11 years of age, its only kicked in in the last year, even at that its only noticable once every week or so when she gets a little excited. Do you honestly think that my gfs gs shouldnt have been born? She has lived a great life and is loved. She makes us happy, i love it to bits. Im a bit soft atm with it as we just had a few 'lumps' removed from her atm. The GS is a fantastic breed.

peasant wrote: »

Breeding from it (as you normally would with a show winner) perpetuates that sickness down the line. That is wrong on so many levels, but you will not acknowledge that.

I will, but ingrowing eyelids are not a serious defect! Our bitch that had it got it at the age of 2 and lived past 10. After her operation it never came back. If it was something more serious of course i would be agasint breeding it if it was a known breed issue, then again, i dont breed dogs, again, my father did and they were all healthy. Do you honestly think that something as little as that means a dog cant breed? cmon, a simple operation will mean that dog will be fine. That in mind, is that a reason to deny a mother from having pups?

peasant wrote: »

It is equally wrong to advise somebody to breed off a bitch that has entropion.
It is downright cynical to advise that person to get the OP done first, so that the entropion isn't visible anymore when the time comes to sell the pups.
One could even call that fraud.

Have you got it now?

sigh! I have said on a number of occations that you have to inform the new owners of the bloodline and that looking into it is part of getting a new dog. I know what you are saying, but you've over looked what i already said on that matter. So no its not fraud. I wasnt being cynical in telling them to doop the potential owners. Its common sense that a dog will need to look after her pups, it will be a bit hard to do if she cant see them properly.

Morganna wrote: »

If the dog has entropian then she should not be bred from.

Well our bitch had it and she turned out fine. It was tackled early, and resolved within the week never to return. I dont see an ingrowing eyelid as a reason to ignore a chance of life, it can be fixed very easy.

Morganna wrote: »

I bred Cavaliers for years had crufts first prize winners and never did one of my pups /dogs have heart problems .I know cavaliers have a problem but i never bred a dog or pup with a bad heart .

Same with our dogs, best of breed in crufts. They always placed. You know cavaliers have problems, and how do you know that 5-10 generations ago your line didnt have heart problems? They skip generations as we have already stated. Its near unaviodable.

Morganna wrote: »

Also my German shepherds i am selective with them to .I would never breed from a dog that had any genetic defect.

My gfs GS has pups before they found out about the HD. As with most people they only find out about it at a later stage of life. Are you still in contact with the people you got your dogs off of? Have to checked up on the line since you got them? Because if not, you are a potential hypocrite - and i dont mean to offend you with that comment.

Morganna wrote: »

Also pups should be handled and socialised and played with .What a load of rubbish red ice you talk .A pup that is destined for the show ring needs to be socialised and handled as does the pet pup.I dont think you know what you are talking about .

Excellent another one whos just read the first and last post and missed the middle section. I love how your already repeating alot of what i've already said and people are now agreeing with you haha.

The ingrowing eyes is not a problem. Lets not use that as an example. A weak heart - yea, thats a problem. I dont even know what im bothering trying to explain myself. Your using me a representitive of breeders? lol. Where did i once say i bred dogs? Im 24 years of age and had 4 dogs which i loved to bits. One of them had ingrowing eyelids which was fixed very quickly. So the person who gave me the chance to have that bitch is a horrible person for giving me a new best friend for 11 odd years? How dare you say that to me. Who the fk do you think you are telling me or saying that my father cant give someone else the opertunity to have a healthy dog(yes, the eye sh1t included as it is fixed easily.) Your the cruel people for saying that someone could deny another person a companion like that. It brings me back to my point of people with MS having kids, should they be denied the chance to raise a family? I should hope fking not.

Morganna wrote: »

Appology accepted .It does make me mad though when breeders or show people or otherwise breed from dogs with hereditary defects .No dog with a hereditary defect or unsuitable temperament or bad conformation should be bred from .And anyone selling pups should really check the home first .

you are a tool. Read the full conversation before you go posting that crap. That was already addressed in and around, the 6th post. And i have said in nearly all my posts that the people should check the homes. Stop trying to put yourself up on a hightower here by trying to make me out to be a bad person, your being an ignorant twat.

lightening wrote: »

Nice. I really don't feel like trusting breeders now. Peasant, he is doing you a favour, more people reading this will go after unwanted dogs now. He is painting the breeder fraternity as money hungry nuts who will breed anything, hide any defect to "make a pretty penny".

ANOTHER FKING TOOL! Read the posts you absolute gimp. I never once said it was about money. Ill say this for the last fking time. Its about getting the pups into a good home.

Do you people just get an idea in your head and start waffling ****e about it? Read up on previous posts, then construct an arguement or conversation around it. Its like talking to a two year old, really it is. I seriously dont even know why im even bothering with you two, your just so arrogant. You blatently havnt bothered reading the previous posts. Otherwise i wouldnt be having this conversation with you. Jesus.

Morganna

Morganna wrote: »

I have bred and still do breed dogs for show /obedience.I would never ever breed from a dog with a genetic hereditary defect.Red Ice you are totally wrong to say get the dogs eyes done as soon as possible.If the dog has entropian then she should not be bred from.I bred Cavaliers for years had crufts first prize winners and never did one of my pups /dogs have heart problems .I know cavaliers have a problem but i never bred a dog or pup with a bad heart .Also my German shepherds i am selective with them to .I would never breed from a dog that had any genetic defect.Also pups should be handled and socialised and played with .What a load of rubbish red ice you talk .A pup that is destined for the show ring needs to be socialised and handled as does the pet pup.I dont think you know what you are talking about .

As i said previously please do not tar all breeders /show breeders with the same brush

Morganna

Red Ice i am not an ignorant t...t.I have studied genetics and hereditary defects at Liverpool university for one .Yes i know defects ccan skip generations which is why no dog with a hereditaery defect should be bred from.also i breed my own lines have been breding dogd since the 60s .So i do know what im talking about .I suggest you do some studying .What if you sold a pup with entropian and the people did nothing about it .The pain that animal would go through with sore eyes So get a life you eejit and learn a code of ethics .

lightening

red_ice wrote: »

ANOTHER FKING TOOL! Read the posts you absolute gimp. I never once said it was about money. Ill say this for the last fking time.

You did, you talked about making a pretty penny.

red_ice wrote: »

Do you people just get an idea in your head and start waffling ****e about it?

No, I read your posts. You are obviously not very well up and pretty ignorant regarding the subject. Now less of the name calling, calm yourself down. I'm not a tool.

Morganna

Red ice my family started breeding gsds in the 1930s so i know what im talking about .eejit

Glowing

red_ice, you keep talking about denying the dog to the right of having pups - if everyone breed their 'wonderfully healthy' dogs just because they felt that it wasn't fair to deny the bitch that, what state do you think the pounds and shelters in this country would be in? Do you not think they're full enough? What's wrong with just selectively breeding a few HEALTHY dogs with proven lines ....no you can't go back 10 generations, but you can certainly do your best to ensure your pups are not going to carry on the genetic defects, and if you have to go back as far as the records go, so be it.

-You also mention denying the the owners the right to have a companion - there are THOUSANDS of pups, pedigrees and crossbreeds in shelters around the country, nobody is denying anybody any companion, you don't have to breed your bitch to get a companion!!!! You just rescue one that has already been irresponsibly bred. :rolleyes:

leopardus

I have to say that this whole exchange has been a real eye opener into the mentality that has lead to the degeneration of a lot of breeds. The very fact that you don't consider breeding an animal with a genetic defect, that will be perpetuated in offspring, as something that should be avioded at all costs is shocking!

They skip generations as we have already stated. Its near unaviodable.

These gentic defects 'skip generations' if they are recessive and are only expressed when homozygous for the gene, it is in fact very aviodable. It involves not breeding from animals who show the trait; and are then obviously homozygous (have two copies of the deleterous gene).

My gfs GS has pups before they found out about the HD. As with most people they only find out about it at a later stage of life.

Most responsible owners would have dogs of breeds known to have a high incidence of hip/ elbow dysplasia (such as german shepherd dogs) x-rayed to ensure the joints are okay before they would consider breeding. This is done so that you can prevent perpetuating the disease (by not breeding) even before it becomes symptomatic in the dam/sire.

That in mind, is that a reason to deny a mother from having pups?

Absolutely yes. Not breeding from dogs with inherited genetic disease should go without saying.

Glowing

Very well put Leopardus.

Morganna

Yes Leopardus genetic defects are avoidable if only people would study pedigrees and genetics .As in collie eye anomaly one parent can be clear mated to an affected dog some pups will be clear but carriers and other pups will be affected and carriers.I wish people before they embark on breedind dogs would do an indepth study of genetics.As regards the collie eye both parents should be clear and from clear stock .If people only took time to study genetics .

Intothesea

Absolutely yes. Not breeding from dogs with inherited genetic disease should go without saying.

I agree that in Utopia this would be followed,
but inherent issues like these are rife not
necessarily because of irresponsible breeding,
but because desire to preserve the breed
standard is so strong. In days when dogs had
real jobs conformation didn't matter quite
so much. I don't agree either but there you
have it.

The issue with an animal that expresses
a certain genetic tendency is to breed
either not at all or 'away' from the
expression. Either of these options is
responsible breeding IMO.

leopardus

This is shamelessly taken from a report entitled "The Price of a Pedigree" it's available online.

• In 2005, Finnish and Dutch animal scientists, writing in the journal Animal Welfare,
  commented:

‘The dogs that most closely meet the rigorous standards regulating their external characteristics, as
demonstrated by their success at breed shows, are most in demand for use in breeding. Even unhealthy,
exaggerated conformations are desired in the standards of some breeds. Together with the use of
inbreeding as a common mating system, this has led to a growing number of breed-specific hereditary
problems.’

• In 1999, animal scientists at the University of Sydney commented:

‘Some breed standards and selection practices run counter to the welfare interests of dogs, to the extent
that some breeds are characterized by traits that may be difficult to defend on welfare grounds.
Meanwhile, little selection pressure seems to be exerted on some traits that would improve animal
welfare and produce dogs better suited to modern society. Unfortunately, the incidence of certain
inherited defects in some breeds is unacceptably high, while the number of registered animals of certain
breeds within some countries is so low as to make it almost impossible for breeders to avoid mating
close relatives’.

• In the late 1990s, a Royal Veterinary College expert in ophthalmology wrote in a forum on
  genetics and animal welfare:

‘Within the world of the pedigree dog, competition is extreme – and breeding policy based on
dedication to breed type has resulted in the appearance of some 300 inherited diseases among canine
species worldwide...n essence these are man-made diseases, and, as such, largely preventable.
Inbreeding to enhance desired appearance or performance can mean that the effective gene pool is
restricted and the control of inherited diseases can be difficult.’

We bred Chow Chows, imo they are a fine dog. If you think they should be one of those breeds to die out, you need your head checked. The same with boxers and German Shepards

.

Recommendations were made by vererinary experts of signatory countries of a European convention for pet animals on how best to implement article 5 .
(Article 5: Breeding: Any person who selects a pet animal for breeding shall be responsible for having regard
to the anatomical, physiological and behavioural characteristics which are likely to put at risk the health and
welfare of either the offspring or the female parent)

The breed characteristics that the Resolution considers sufficiently harmful they need to be changed include:

1. Abnormal size and form of eyes or eyelids (e.g. ectropion: Bassethound, Bloodhound, St. Bernard ); small deep lying eyes with disposition to entropion: (e.g. Chow Chow)
2. abnormal positions of legs (e.g. very steep line of hind legs in Chow Chow to avoid
   difficulties in movement and joint degeneration;
   

Don't even get me started on German Shepherd Dogs!

red_ice

Morganna wrote: »

Red Ice i am not an ignorant t...t.I have studied genetics and hereditary defects at Liverpool university for one .Yes i know defects ccan skip generations which is why no dog with a hereditaery defect should be bred from.

And what if you find out at a later stage in their life, like i've already said?

Morganna wrote: »

I suggest you do some studying .What if you sold a pup with entropian and the people did nothing about it .The pain that animal would go through with sore eyes So get a life you eejit and learn a code of ethics.

I dont need to study something that i dont want to persue. Where did i say that our bitch with entropian had pups? I dont recall saying that.. Stop making assumptions you fking tool. Everyones arguement is based on assumptions here, its stupid.

lightening wrote: »

You did, you talked about making a pretty penny.

I said you could make some money on it yea, but i never said thats what breeding is about, finding the perfect dog and mating it regardless of its condition and selling off the perfect show pup? I NEVER SAID THAT. I simply said, check the blood line and make sure its ok. Something which you lot are trying to use against me to strengthen your argument, its fking hilarious that your doing that - your only repeating something that i've already said lol.

lightening wrote: »

No, I read your posts. You are obviously not very well up and pretty ignorant regarding the subject. Now less of the name calling, calm yourself down. I'm not a tool.

TBH, if you would have to repeat the same points over and over again from a number of poeple giving out to me for offering some friendly advice on a pups well being and chances of getting into a wider selection of homes then maybe we wouldnt be here would we? Im sick of repeating my arguement. I will most definitly calm down as im sick of repeating myself. From now on, anyone who trys to have a go at me or make a point which we have already covered and use it against me will just be ignored. That will make me chill alot easier, i shouldnt have to repeat this crap in EVERY SINGLE POST!

Morganna wrote: »

Red ice my family started breeding gsds in the 1930s so i know what im talking about .eejit

And every single one came out perfect? I seriously fking doubt it.

Glowing wrote: »

What's wrong with just selectively breeding a few HEALTHY dogs with proven lines ....no you can't go back 10 generations, but you can certainly do your best to ensure your pups are not going to carry on the genetic defects, and if you have to go back as far as the records go, so be it.

Is that not what i've been saying for the last god knows how long? Checking the bloodline etc? You guys are calling me inhumane etc for saying to do that exact fking point. jesus christ.

Glowing wrote: »

-You also mention denying the the owners the right to have a companion - there are THOUSANDS of pups, pedigrees and crossbreeds in shelters around the country, nobody is denying anybody any companion, you don't have to breed your bitch to get a companion!!!! You just rescue one that has already been irresponsibly bred. :rolleyes:

You do if you want a certain breed. I just love how your hung up on the whole irresponsibly bred thing. Its class. Your previous post then is contradicting what i just answered for you. Jesus Christ x2.

leopardus wrote: »

This is shamelessly taken from a report entitled "The Price of a Pedigree" it's available online.

URL pls as when i googled a couple of those lines they came out different to what you pasted. As if they were edited or something

Glowing

Red Ice - Yes or No.....

Do you think given the OP's dog's condition, that he should breed her?

peasant

red-ice

Just stop digging

And don't call people tools all the time

lightening

red_ice wrote: »

poeple giving out to me for offering some friendly advice on a pups well being

Eh, crap advice in fairness. You don't seem to know your arse from your elbow.

Ruby Soho

"My gfs GS has pups before they found out about the HD. As with most people they only find out about it at a later stage of life"

Just saw this now Red-Ice, ever hear of a little thing called 'hip-scoring'? Should be the very first port of call for anyone even considering breeding from a GSD. Look I'm not trying to nit-pick but you have contradicted yourself time and time again. No I'm not a vet, I'm a nurse working in a busy SA practice, and yes, I take hip scores all the time so I do know what I'm talking about. I have also seen first hand the sad results of unscrupulous breeders who choose to ignore hereditary problems in their dogs. Yes, I can give plenty of examples...
I don't really care that these people can breed show dogs, I care that the poor buggers are lame by the time they hit two years old because of congenital skeletal abnormalities.

red_ice

Glowing wrote: »

Red Ice - Yes or No.....

Do you think given the OP's dog's condition, that he should breed her?

Personally i think thats ok because it is a minor problem. If the pups get it, it can be fixed very simply and the dog will live a very normal life.

peasant wrote: »

And don't call people tools all the time

Then stop making me have to repeat myself :DDDdd

Ruby Soho wrote: »

"My gfs GS has pups before they found out about the HD. As with most people they only find out about it at a later stage of life"

Just saw this now Red-Ice, ever hear of a little thing called 'hip-scoring'? Should be the very first port of call for anyone even considering breeding from a GSD.

Im only with my gf a year now. They got the dog checked and it was given the all clear at the age of 4. She had a litter, then she got something which ment her womb had to be removed. That put an end to that. Considering its only come into effect in the last year as i said and the fact that she is now 12(i think). It would have been over looked or missed i can only assume. It could even be just old age, we are going under the assumption its HD as her hind quarters are weaker than the front.

Ruby Soho wrote: »

Look I'm not trying to nit-pick but you have contradicted yourself time and time again.

The only contradiction i see is the playing with the pups at an early age, which i still dont really see as a full on contradiction just what i've heard.

Ruby Soho wrote: »

I have also seen first hand the sad results of unscrupulous breeders who choose to ignore hereditary problems in their dogs. Yes, I can give plenty of examples...

So ingrowing eyelids are a serious problem which require serious surgery?(all surgery is serious, but you know what i mean).

Ruby Soho wrote: »

I don't really care that these people can breed show dogs, I care that the poor buggers are lame by the time they hit two years old because of congenital skeletal abnormalities.

And we came to an agreement earlier on that such breeding is terrible. Weak hearts, bad skeletal structure etc is a horrible thing to put an animal through. I however think that the OP's problem is not really a problem at all. Do you see it as a serious problem, even if ingrowing eyelids wont effect their quality of life if its treated? Am i being attacked because you people think i agree with breeding dogs regardless of their quality of life? If thats what you lot are getting at im going to step back from the conversation once and for all because my points are obviously not getting through to you.

Glowing

red_ice wrote: »

Personally i think thats ok because it is a minor problem. If the pups get it, it can be fixed very simply and the dog will live a very normal life.

Do you not agree that it's terrible to breed a litter of pups where there's a good chance that they'll all have to go through surgery? Having a general anesthetic is not insignificant, not to mention the added cost, and recuperation time.

Why should your pup/dog HAVE to go through this just because you want to make a few bob?

Morganna

Red Ice i never said you had a bitch and pups with entropian and please do not call me names .

red_ice

Glowing wrote: »

Do you not agree that it's terrible to breed a litter of pups where there's a good chance that they'll all have to go through surgery? Having a general anesthetic is not insignificant, not to mention the added cost, and recuperation time.

Why should your pup/dog HAVE to go through this just because you want to make a few bob?

Glowing, your really starting to take the p1ss here. The last time ill say this before i start ignoring you. We have covered everything that you have just said there. Im not going on an offense, im simply not going to rise to this again.

Morganna wrote: »

Red Ice i never said you had a bitch and pups with entropian and please do not call me names .

Someone made a point regarding my bitch having pups, i never said she did. I cant find it in this spaghetti post. The names are long gone now that we are starting to move into a civilized conversation. All im asking is that people take the time to read my replies before they go talking about hereditary problems and money. Then maybe this conversation will smooth out even more.

Morganna

Even so i dont think it is nice to call people names .We only have one life so lets all try and get on or be civilised to each other.

peasant

red_ice wrote: »

All im asking is that people take the time to read my replies before they go talking about hereditary problems and money. Then maybe this conversation will smooth out even more.

OK .... lets do that, shall we?

Here are your first wo "contributions" to this thread again, see who's talking about heredetary problems and money?

red_ice wrote: »

My father has kept 4 all ireland/uk champions. One of which was a bitch who had ingrowing eyelids and had to have a couple of operations to fix them. Granted she was a heavy headded chow, but boxers headweight can cover it up. Get the OP done asap, and try have it ready by the time you are selling the pups. It is genetic 8/10 times, because its based around headweight and fat pushing the eyelids inwards. Its a simple operation, she would be grand in 2 weeks at most.

There are loads of things you need to consider. If you are selling them for showing then you really cant play with the pups at all. You just have to let them play within the litter. Holding the pups should be avoided at all costs aswel. One of our dogs had to be returned a month after we picked him up because his from right leg was turning inwards from the breeders kids who played with him.

For me, the dogs were pets etc. For my dad it was the same, but it was also a hobby. So you need to find out who your selling to, this will let you know if your in over your head or not.

You need to find a good stud aswell. Not any old pure bred boxer, you should ask a judge etc about the condition of a dog, his stance etc. Whats the point in breeding a dog for showing if hes got terrible posture?

I know my comments sound cold, but again, im only telling you what i know from experience, and thats very little compared to the people who do this as their main hobby!

red_ice wrote: »

Not at all. All healthy dogs come across problems. Charles' are known for having weak hearts for example. Another would be my gf's german shepard who has hip dysplacia, these illness come as part of the breed. As far as boxers go, like bulldogs or in my chow chows case(not my chow, an example chow), they have heavy heads. This means that fat can grow around the head more than on other dogs. In missy's case (my dog in question) she grew alot of fat around her head putting weight on her eyelids. The op even said it herself



All of our dogs were perfectly healthy dogs, and all of them were top class show dogs. You saying a dog should not breed at all is a stupid comment imo. That dog imo sounds grand. It comes with getting a pup, you research the bloodline of the pup. Something as simple as an eye op will not deter someone from getting a pup for showing as showing is based on stance and presentation of the dog. If its purely based on skin deep cosmetic's our dogs would not have done so well, but they excelled and were in all of the top dog mags.



Of course you can play with the pups, but green stick fractures are very common in pups that get played with allot. Exercise for an aminal of any type is essential. I did say that the pups should play amongst the litter, and human interaction is obviously needed for the upbringing of a dog. However, you have to be gentle with pups.

To reiterate my point and try get a more accurate point across.. If your breeding for dogs to be shown then you have to be allot more careful with them and bring them up different to other normal house dogs, which by the sounds of it ruby soho are they type of dog that you would generally be around.

Im only offering advice on the matter, the op and take it or leave it - its no skin off my noise what he/she decides to do with the pups. It will all come to light when she tries to sell the pups to a serious buyer who wants to show the dogs - if she takes your route chances are the pups wont sell. If a dogs stance is even 1/2 an inch off its considered a flaw, and thats just how it is.

However if shes selling to people who just want a house dog, by all means enjoy the pups while they are with you. afaik, 2 years of age is grand for breeding and registering a pup to sell isnt a big hassle either, chances are you will attract a more serious crowed - word will spread if its a good quality pup and you could start to make a pretty penny off of it too.

Let's face it, you were posting drivel and you got narky when you got pulled up on it.

No amount of back-pedalling and playing nicey-nice now is going to change that

Morganna

Well said Peasant

Our man in Havana

Red_Ice you are very thin ice. Consider your self warned. Do not call people tools.

Intothesea

Get the OP done asap, and try have it ready by the time you are selling the pups. It is genetic 8/10 times

I think what Red Ice was getting at here is that the
genetic component of the problem is almost impossible
to avoid within the breed. Absolutely correct.

For me, the dogs were pets etc. For my dad it was the same, but it was also a hobby. So you need to find out who your selling to, this will let you know if your in over your head or not.

This is exactly what a responsible breeder will do. Look
for potential committed buyers before commencing
the breeding process at all. Less unwanted puppies.

All healthy dogs come across problems. Charles' are known for having weak hearts for example. Another would be my gf's german shepard who has hip dysplacia, these illness come as part of the breed.

This is absolutely true. Refining certain characteristics
involves all sorts of inbreeding (deliberate or not), which
incurs any number of genetic problems, there is simply
no way to avoid the *possibility*, unless you want to
cross breed between breeds.

Something as simple as an eye op will not deter someone from getting a pup for showing as showing is based on stance and presentation of the dog.

I think this is in general true. Compared to the other
possible inherent defects in Boxers (heart, leg and
other big ones), the eye problem is likely to be a
'so what' to dog show people. Not that I agree, but
that's the way it is.

...and you could start to make a pretty penny off of it too.

This isn't the focus I'd be favouring when breeding
pups, but it certainly doesn't make the things Red Ice
says erroneous.

Less chasing of parked cars would make for far
more enjoyable and less distorted and unfair reading :pac:

peasant

Intothesea wrote: »

Less chasing of parked cars would make for far
more enjoyable and less distorted and unfair reading :pac:

"Enjoyable reading" is not really on the cards here.

As far as the dogs are concerned, there is no happy "let's all get along with each other" approach when it comes to sloppy / profit orientated / show orientated breeding ...they are the ones ending up suffering.

I for one am glad to see that several posters here are making a stand on the dogs' behalf.

kerrysgold

I think what Red Ice was getting at here is that the
genetic component of the problem is almost impossible
to avoid within the breed. Absolutely correct.

I think it is possible to try and breed out genetic issues by only breeding dogs that are sound. so, by continuing to breed dogs that are prone to such diseases, then it'll never be bred out until people stop breeding for money and start breeding to improve the breed.....