Are we suitable for a dog / puppy?

peasant

Lorenzo Nice Vehemence wrote: »

You are certainly very wrong on the assertion that dogs can neither think forward or reflect (as you put it) on the past. .....Likewise dogs by the very vertue that allows them to be trained so well can be aware of things from the past.

Yes ... I should have phrased that better.

Dogs can't think forward or reflect in the same way as we do.

What they certainly can't do is to compare or rationalise.

One of our rescue dogs for example does clearly remember the shelter that we got him from (as he absolutely doesn't want to be there when we go there) ..he remembers the noises and the smells and possibly some other things.


But that still doesn't keep him from getting narky when you stop throwing his ball ...he doesn't remember that back in the shelter nobody ever threw a ball for him and that he's far better off right now ...all he wants is more ball !

Noopti

Just a few links for the OP regarding this. Coincidently or not, none of them say you should under no circumstance leaves the dog alone when you go to work, but do give advice on how to work around it:

http://www.stopdogfrombarking.com/newpuppy.html

http://www.thinkspain.com/news-spain/1217/leaving-the-puppy-home-alone

http://home.ivillage.com/pets/dogs/0,,mk60,00.html

http://www.dummies.com/WileyCDA/DummiesArticle/Leaving-Your-Puppy-Home-Alone.id-4291.html

http://parents.berkeley.edu/advice/pets/puppyhomealone.html

http://www.phsspca.org/training/puppy_raising.htm

peasant

Noopti wrote: »

Just a few links for the OP regarding this. Coincidently or not, none of them say you should under no circumstance leaves the dog alone when you go to work...

You DID read what you linked there? :D:D

Puppies may never ever be left alone. ....To be left alone and to feel abandoned does not exist in the life of a pack animal.
....Therefore I think that it would be better if some owners did not have a dog. If you cannot look after your dog or if you are not willing to educate him you should not have one....

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

peasant wrote: »

You DID read what you linked there? :D:D

In fairness you picked one quote from a Spanish English language news site (hardly an authority on dog care). All the other sites supplied do state that it's perfectly fine to leave a pup and some give advice on how to go about the task. I find it's better to give a balanced view on such matters rather than quote the only source in support of your own pre-determined view.

peasant

In fairness...:D...none of the other links leads to "authorities" on dog care either.

Noopti did a quick google to try and find opinions that underlined his/her point of view and managed to get one wrong.


Show me scientific research that proves that it is ok and not harmful for a pups development to be left alone for long hours every day and I'll shut up.

Good luck searching, btw ....:pac:

Noopti

For the record I did a search for "Leaving Puppy Alone". I didn't search for "It is ok to leave Puppy alone" or anything else which would lead to specific biased links in favor of my argument.

My search could have easily led to articles both for and against, funnily enough....all the links I checked were not against it (bar one, which is the least authoritative of the links).

Show us scientific evidence that it does do harm? At least I have given some evidence/records of experience, it may not hold up for you, but is more than the idle conjecture that you have been presenting us.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

This is just getting stupid. Obviously nobody is willing accept anyone else's opinion on this. Doctors differ and patients die so let's let people research for themselves, read some books, speak to vets, speak to other dog owners and not direct them by anonymous posters on a messageboard.
We all have our own feelings on this. As someone who works with animals and has a dog at home during the day on it's own, I recommend a dog to anybody willing to make an effort to settle, train, and care for the dog. Others obviously feel the dog would be heartbroken. All are entitled to their opinon.

I'm just sorry for the confusion it causes for the person first asking for some advice.

ncmc

Lorenzo Nice Vehemence wrote: »

This is just getting stupid. Obviously nobody is willing accept anyone else's opinion on this. Doctors differ and patients die so let's let people research for themselves, read some books, speak to vets, speak to other dog owners and not direct them by anonymous posters on a messageboard.
We all have our own feelings on this. As someone who works with animals and has a dog at home during the day on it's own, I recommend a dog to anybody willing to make an effort to settle, train, and care for the dog. Others obviously feel the dog would be heartbroken. All are entitled to their opinon.

I'm just sorry for the confusion it causes for the person first asking for some advice.

Here, here Lorenzo Nice Vehemence, that's the most sensible post on this whole topic. I too feel sorry for the op who couldn't have known the can of worms they were opening when they asked their original question. I hope they reconsider their decision, owning a dog is a truly rewarding experiance (both for owner and dog!):)

peasant

Noopti wrote: »

For the record I did a search for "Leaving Puppy Alone". I didn't search for "It is ok to leave Puppy alone" or anything else which would lead to specific biased links in favor of my argument.

My search could have easily led to articles both for and against, funnily enough....all the links I checked were not against it (bar one, which is the least authoritative of the links).

Show us scientific evidence that it does do harm? At least I have given some evidence/records of experience, it may not hold up for you, but is more than the idle conjecture that you have been presenting us.

Well see ...therein lies the problem.
You were looking for info on "how to" leave your puppy alone and not "is it ok to".

Just because it can be and is done doesn't mean that it is ok to do so.

Lorenzo Nice Vehemence wrote: »

I'm just sorry for the confusion it causes for the person first asking for some advice.

The OP asked :

Do you think the time we are away from the house Monday to Friday would be unfair on a young pup or a dog rescued from a shelter?

Fact of the matter is: (and this is not "idle conjecture")

Dogs are highly social animals. They only function in groups. They were not "designed" to be alone, all their behaviour is geared towards integration into a social structure. They need company and interaction just as much as they need food and water.

Older dogs may get used to certain daily periods of solitude and handle it no problem.

Pups/young dogs on the other hand need constant interaction and supervision in order to reach their full potential, to be properly socialised with their surroundings, to bond with thier owner(s) and not to develop "problems"

To abandon a pup/young dog for long hours every day actually is not just unfair ...in my opinion it's downright cruel.


But we like to gloss this over, as it doesn't suit us. Most of us simply have too many other commitments to be able to spend enough time on and with a pup.

So we invent "methods" and websites and give "advice" on how to work around the issue.

We substitute time with kongs and confinement...leave radios on and stuff clocks into cushions ...none of which helps the pup at the end of the day ...but it makes us feel less guilty about having wanted and gotten a dog, a lot of times against better knowledge and judgement.

I mean ...come on ...it's not exactly news or a recent discovery that dogs need company. It's just that our lifestyles have robbed us of the time to dedicate to this task.

But we still want to have dogs ... and we get them regardless (preferably cutzie-wootzie lickle puppies)

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

peasant wrote: »

We substitute time with kongs(?) and confinement...leave radios on and stuff clocks into cushions ...none of which helps the pup at the end of the day ...but it makes us feel less guilty about having wanted and gotten a dog, a lot of times against better knowledge and judgement.

But we still want to have dogs ... and we get them regardless (preferably cutzie-wootzie lickle puppies)

What a grossly unfair comment!

That is a scurrilous image to throw at us. I'm finished with this particular thread because sense seems to have leapt straight out the window!

peasant

Lorenzo Nice Vehemence wrote: »

What a grossly unfair comment!

That is a scurrilous image to throw at us. I'm finished with this particular thread because sense seems to have leapt straight out the window!

Ha?

I actually had to look that one up

scurrilous
Adjective
untrue or unfair, insulting, and designed to damage a person's reputation

How have I insulted you or damaged your reputation ?

cowzerp

glineli wrote: »

Some common sense at last. I dont see my wife all day due to work, never mind my dog!!!

I was off sick for a few weeks after a knee operation a while back, the dog was out the back all day, happy as larry, sleeping for 2 hours, get up for some food, go back to sleep. around 4.30ish he was up and waiting for my wife to get home from work. He has a routinue now and is happy with it.

Well said, my 2 dogs are out the back playing with each other right now, they dont know im home as im usually in work through the day, they have a routine and dont turn to despair when me and my partner are at work!

Now on the other hand, these dogs that have 24/7 access to there humans! they will be in despair when there humans go on holiday and they have to spend time alone, or when the wife who stays home spends a couple of days in hospital etc.. then them dogs will be frustrated while mine play out with each other and dont see a problem,

i know my dogs dont bark from despair as my neighbours would tell me, i leave 3 full bowls of water in case 1 spills as they do, and my dogs cant leave the garden and get into trouble while im out due to it been secure!

Glowing

I think i'm done with this thread too! We're going around in circles! Maybe we should start another thread because we're going waaay off topic here!

Noopti

I'm out too, Peasant has an awfully big paintbrush with which to paint us all and the backhanded insults are getting a bit much. Hopefully one day our dogs will leave us and find proper dog owners like himself.... :rolleyes:

ncmc

Noopti wrote: »

I'm out too, Peasant has an awfully big paintbrush with which to paint us all and the backhanded insults are getting a bit much. Hopefully one day our dogs will leave us and find proper dog owners like himself.... :rolleyes:

I went home last night and felt so guilty that my poor abused dog had the misfortune to have such a callous uncaring owner that abandons her for hours on end... Then as she looked up adoringly at me-from the bottom of MY bed, where she sleeps, I decided that maybe she wasn't so unlucky to have me as an owner afterall. I also decided that this thread was not good for my sanity, so i'm out too... adios!:)

peasant

cowzerp wrote: »

Now on the other hand, these dogs that have 24/7 access to there humans! they will be in despair when there humans go on holiday and they have to spend time alone, or when the wife who stays home spends a couple of days in hospital etc.. then them dogs will be frustrated while mine play out with each other and dont see a problem,

Well, having three of "these/them" dogs, I can tell you that none of the above is the case.

They have been perfectly behaved in kennels on the few occassions that we couldn't bring them along, showing no signs whatsoever of despair or frustration.
They can be left alone for a few hours, at home, in the car or in the camper.
They also play quite happily with each other every day.

peasant

to add a lighter note to this thread ...I was searching youtube for horrific examples of what can happen to dogs home alone and found this instead (just had to share it )

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lEWtzZP1cg

lightening

That's hilarious.

I'm getting a doberman, cropping his ears, docking his tail and getting a pool and a slide and leaving him at home all day. Thanks Peasant!

I'm kidding....!.

It is hilarious though.

Boris25

After reading through this whole thread I hope it hasn't put people off getting a dog that have to work. People that don't and have all day to spend with their dogs is all well and good and I wish I was one of those people but realistically most of us do have to work. If we didn't we wouldn't be able to have our much loved pets in the first place.

First thing I will comment on is "stay on your own" training is an important part of puppy training or you are asking for a dog with seperation anxiety. By this I mean a few minutes at a time to start with and not all day.

I think somebody did comment on taking a 12 week old pup and having it house trained in a week. I understand that most dogs do not have full bladder control until about 5 months also teething can affect a fully house trained puppy. Personally I think the time between a pup coming home at 8 weeks and 12 weeks needs to be spent socialising the pup and if not fully house trained by that time it doesn't matter. It will come in time.

As to leaving dogs on their own we ourselves work strange hours. Sometimes at home all day and other times out for a varying amount of hours. Our dogs have a run with a room with beds in and a toilet area. They are very happy in there without us. I know they are as we have cctv and can come home and watch it if we felt like it. They are no different to when we are at home and choose to sit outside.

I do agree with it is very unfair to leave a dog at home for long hours, but 2 dogs or 1 dog that is happy alone whilst the owners are necessarily working then yes if they either are outside in a secure area or inside with regular toilet breaks and walks with plenty of attention when the owners are home from work.

az2wp0sye65487

peasant wrote: »

Well, having three of "these/them" dogs, I can tell you that none of the above is the case.

They have been perfectly behaved in kennels on the few occassions that we couldn't bring them along, showing no signs whatsoever of despair or frustration.
They can be left alone for a few hours, at home, in the car or in the camper.
They also play quite happily with each other every day.

How do you know if they don't show signs of despair or frustration when you leave them - after all, you said yourself that you can't know how they behave when you're not around!!

You leave your dogs alone for a few hours in a car????

cowzerp

Joshua Strong Tailgate wrote: »

How do you know if they don't show signs of despair or frustration when you leave them - after all, you said yourself that you can't know how they behave when you're not around!!

You leave your dogs alone for a few hours in a car????

+1, and the car bit is just abuse and ignorance.

peasant

Joshua Strong Tailgate wrote: »

How do you know if they don't show signs of despair or frustration when you leave them - after all, you said yourself that you can't know how they behave when you're not around!!

You leave your dogs alone for a few hours in a car????

They're kenneled with friends ...I believe they would tell me if something were amiss.

Yes, I do leave the dogs in the car occasionally (it's a van) ...when we go shopping (only for a short time) or when we visit friends.

The car gets parked in the shade, windows are left open and if its longer then I go and check on them every now and then or even take them out for a short walk.
Obviously I wouldn't leave them in the car in the kind of weather we're having right now.

The reason why I bring them in the car rather than leave them at home is so that I can check on them.

cowzerp wrote: »

+1, and the car bit is just abuse and ignorance.

How so?

It's their car, they know and love it. It's a van actually so there is more than enough space. They either sleep in it or sit and look out the window.

I see no difference to leaving them at home other than that I have them close by and can react if something is amiss (which I couldn't do if they were miles away at home)

leopardus

Are you suitable for a puppy? In my opinion no, or at least not without coming home for a period during the day or hiring a dog walker if this is not possible. Puppies need alot of attention, leaving it alone for eight hours plus five days a week is not fair. As somebody mentioned earlier once a routine has been established, and the dog gets older, it can be left for progressively longer periods.
Are you suitable for a dog? In my opinion , maybe. An adult dog is much better equipped to deal with being left alone for extended periods than a young puppy. There are definitely still challenges is properly keeping a dog in this situation (to prevent behavioural problems such as seperation anxiety). But with alot of consideration and work these can be overcome and you can have a perfectly contented, well balanced dog. It depends on the amount of effort you' be prepared to put into.

A good book on the subject if 'The Weekeend Dog' by M.M. Milani (1985).

wyk

If you have experience with dogs, getting a couple of rescues that can keep each other company in a large enclosed area of land, with plenty of shelter and water, is the way to go. Do not get a dog from a Breeder - that only creates more demand for dogs in the future. Get a couple of rescues(preferably Greyhounds, if ya ask me), and let them play with each other until you return home.

Try to time the arrival of these dogs when you both have some time off from work. This way you can acclaimate them to your way of life, surroundings and you. Feel free to PM me with any questions.

WYK

Plek Trum wrote: »

Hi all,
my partner and I are considering adopting a young dog from a shelter or else getting a puppy from a registered breeder. We are both animal lovers and come from homes with pets but this will be our first pet together.

Our main concern is the following:
My partner leaves for work at 8am, returns at 6pm. I leave at 8:45 and can be home by 5:30. We have a large house in the country and more than two thirds of an acre on both front and back, which we could fence somewhat to make a suitable run, with a beach at the end of our road for walks etc.

Do you think the time we are away from the house Monday to Friday would be unfair on a young pup or a dog rescued from a shelter? I would be interested in your opinions. We certainly don't want to make any decisions if the dog won't be happy!

We also enjoy our breaks - what are your opinions on getting a dog / puppy, knowing we would be leaving it at the kennels for a few weeks over the year?

Any advice or opinions welcome.. thanks.

Plek Trum

Many thanks to all!