Are we suitable for a dog / puppy?

Plek Trum

Hi all,
my partner and I are considering adopting a young dog from a shelter or else getting a puppy from a registered breeder. We are both animal lovers and come from homes with pets but this will be our first pet together.

Our main concern is the following:
My partner leaves for work at 8am, returns at 6pm. I leave at 8:45 and can be home by 5:30. We have a large house in the country and more than two thirds of an acre on both front and back, which we could fence somewhat to make a suitable run, with a beach at the end of our road for walks etc.

Do you think the time we are away from the house Monday to Friday would be unfair on a young pup or a dog rescued from a shelter? I would be interested in your opinions. We certainly don't want to make any decisions if the dog won't be happy!

We also enjoy our breaks - what are your opinions on getting a dog / puppy, knowing we would be leaving it at the kennels for a few weeks over the year?

Any advice or opinions welcome.. thanks.

stevoman

Plek Trum wrote: »

Hi all,
my partner and I are considering adopting a young dog from a shelter or else getting a puppy from a registered breeder. We are both animal lovers and come from homes with pets but this will be our first pet together.

Our main concern is the following:
My partner leaves for work at 8am, returns at 6pm. I leave at 8:45 and can be home by 5:30. We have a large house in the country and more than two thirds of an acre on both front and back, which we could fence somewhat to make a suitable run, with a beach at the end of our road for walks etc.

Do you think the time we are away from the house Monday to Friday would be unfair on a young pup or a dog rescued from a shelter? I would be interested in your opinions. We certainly don't want to make any decisions if the dog won't be happy!

We also enjoy our breaks - what are your opinions on getting a dog / puppy, knowing we would be leaving it at the kennels for a few weeks over the year?

Any advice or opinions welcome.. thanks.

If you are going to get a dog with that nice bit of land you have and the amount you are at work you should consider getting two and they will keep each other company. i wouldnt recomend you get one, its just not fair on the dog

peasant

The long daily absence certainly would not suit a pup.
Pups are like little children, they need to be supervised and the need to be raised/trained. You simply cannot do that when you're not there and you will end up with a "dog with issues" at best, a dead dog at worst.

Generally speaking all dogs are highly social animals and they need company to be at their best. Abandoning them for the best part of the day is highly unfair on them.

az2wp0sye65487

Myself and my better half have 2 dogs that are left at home alone all day. This wasn't always the case, there was originally sombody at home every day who looked after them and they kept each other company. But due to reasons that I won't be going into the dogs are still there but the person isn't.

We both work 9-5 jobs and it does feel unfair keeping them on their own all day. If I was in this position without any pets I doubt I'd get one unless it could be looked after properly.

We do try to pay them a lot of attention in the evenings/weekends and bring them for plenty of walks and runs, but it's still not fair to keep them locked up all day. Unfortunatly we have no choice.

Also, if you decide to rescue a dog, I know from experience that the more common breeds / medium sized and slightly older dogs are overlooked for the most part. People want a pup, and they either want a really small or a really big dog. This means that the other poor aul medium sized, not so young, cross breeds are left behind.

I'd recommend getting one of those if rescuing.

lightening

My wife and I work the same hours as you except she doesn't work on Fridays. Is there a chance one of you could go to four days a week? That might make a difference.

I live right beside a huge park and and up every morning for a 40 minute or an hours walk before work (whatever the weather). The dog is then walked for 30 Minutes or an hour every evening, in the winter its pitch dark, cold and usually raining.

We can't go for dinner or drinks after work (together), weekends away are only possible because of family and friends who love, feed, walk and clean the sometimes runny mess up. (I mind theirs in return and it is a BIG ask).

The dog has kongs and other toys to keep him amused during the day, but its no substitute for owner contact.

Its a lot of work nowadays, kennels can cost more than your flights when you are on holiday, but if your keen its better than a dog being put down.

ncmc

peasant wrote: »

The long daily absence certainly would not suit a pup.
Pups are like little children, they need to be supervised and the need to be raised/trained. You simply cannot do that when you're not there and you will end up with a "dog with issues" at best, a dead dog at worst.

Generally speaking all dogs are highly social animals and they need company to be at their best. Abandoning them for the best part of the day is highly unfair on them.

I think this is a little excessive, my husband and I are out for similar hours during the day and we got a Cocker pup two years ago. I know it is not the ideal scenario, but we make sure that we give her lots of love and attention when we are at home. We have had to make some sacrifices, I don't plan nights out when she has been by herself all day and I get up 45 mins early so that I can walk her in the morning and of course she gets a long walk in the evening. With the amount of land you have the dog would be able to run around during the day, I would make sure she has a lot of toys and things to divert her attention. I'm sure you would find that she would sleep a lot of the day anyway.

Like I said, it is not an ideal scenario, but most dog owners are out at work during the day. My dog is incredibley loved and in return, she is so loving and sweet back. She is certainly not a 'dog with issues' or even worse... dead!:)

peasant

ncmc wrote: »

I think this is a little excessive ...

You may think so, but looking at it strictly form the dogs' point of view, it isn't.

Dogs are highly social animals, hard-wired for social interaction within a group/structure. They need company for their overall wellbeing and they need guidance and leadership in order to learn the skills that are necessary to function in our society.

Depriving them of company/leadership for large parts of the day is just not fair.
Best case scenario is that you end up with a dog that copes quietly and shows no outward signs of social deprivation; worst case scenario you will have a severely disturbed dog displaying symptoms ranging between excessive barking and fear-aggression biting.

In both cases you're looking at a dog that could have been so much better and happier had it been given more attention.


As for the "real world" arguments:

Yes, people have to make a living ...but it's not the dogs' fault that these days that involves leaving them for the best part of the day rather than taking them along to hunt or herd the sheep.

Yes, people love their dogs and shower them with love and attention once they come home ...that still doesn't change the fact though that the dog will be (feel) abandoned for the best part of the day.

Yes, an individual dog may be better off in a working household than in a pound or dead ...but if only people who understand that a dog can't be left alone got dogs, there wouldn't be as many unwanted or "difficult" dogs in shelters / put to sleep in the first place. It's a bit of a viscious circle that.


I know that my views on the matter are not popular (with people who just go with what they want and need) it doesn't make them less true though.

Glowing

ncmc wrote: »

I think this is a little excessive, my husband and I are out for similar hours during the day and we got a Cocker pup two years ago. I know it is not the ideal scenario, but we make sure that we give her lots of love and attention when we are at home. We have had to make some sacrifices, I don't plan nights out when she has been by herself all day and I get up 45 mins early so that I can walk her in the morning and of course she gets a long walk in the evening. With the amount of land you have the dog would be able to run around during the day, I would make sure she has a lot of toys and things to divert her attention. I'm sure you would find that she would sleep a lot of the day anyway.

Like I said, it is not an ideal scenario, but most dog owners are out at work during the day. My dog is incredibley loved and in return, she is so loving and sweet back. She is certainly not a 'dog with issues' or even worse... dead!:)

I'd have to disagree there. Yes, *most* pup owners are out to work every day but that doesn't make it right. I think you were lucky to end up with such a well adjusted dog. I think it's particularly sad to see young 8 or 12 week old pups left at home alone for 8 or 9 hours daily. Given these guys have so much energy, they must get tragically bored.

I don't think it's so bad to leave an older dog at home - and I think in this case, one or two older rescues would be perfect for your situation. But I do think it would be necessary to get a dog walker for an hour at lunch time say 3 days a week, ideally every day.

Noopti

There are how many dogs in Ireland??? And I'm sure most of them are left at home when the owners are working.

Not saying it is ideal, but I agree with ncmc, if you give your dog plenty of attention and training when you are home, it is not going to turn into some psychopathic animal just because it was by itself for a 6 hours of the day. Most puppies I've had have spent most of their time just sleeping/going to the toilet/playing with toys.
Yes, it will take longer to toilet train the puppy, as you won't be there and so he/she will have to be trained on paper and then outside, but once they are comfortable, have a nice area to play in and plenty of toys, they should be fine in my opinion.
If you could take some time off when you first get the puppy to help it settle into it's new home, then that would be a good idea. Take a week off work?

Of course, it would be great to spend all your time with the dog, but in the real world this just isn't possible most of the time. If their was a law that you couldn't own a dog unless there was someone there everyday for it then I would say a huge number of the population wouldn't be able to own one.

kerrysgold

Definitely not a puppy as they need somebody at home all day to train then, socialize them etc.

but I think a pair of older dogs could work especially if they have the space outside during the day. you could maybe put a garden shed out there for them etc.

as long as they had a short walk in the morning before work (about 30 mins) and then about an hour in the evening and take them somewhere fun at the weekends or whatever days off you have, like somewhere for them to run around, go for a swim or whatever e.g. forest, mountains, beach etc.

you could also maybe sign up for some sort of group activity like training classes or agility once a week or something to get them socializing with other dogs.

have you tried looking at rescue websites?

http://petsireland.invisionzone.ie and www.irishanimals.ie are a good place to start.
if you were interested in a greyhound/lurcher you could also try www.paws.ie
and there are also other rescues: www.cottagerescue.ie , www.puppyrescue.ie etc.

good luck.

peasant

Noopti wrote: »

If their was a law that you couldn't own a dog unless there was someone there everyday for it then I would say a huge number of the population wouldn't be able to own one.

And?

Noopti

I have seen a lot of articles/books that say while it is better for someone to be with a puppy all the time, it is certainly not 100% necessary.
Most sources say that once they have a proper sized crate in the same living area that the rest of the pack usually reside (ie: in the home), and have good space, plenty of toys or games to amuse them and a comfy/warm bed to sleep, that they will be fine. Once you are not gone for like 10 hours everyday!

The only drawbacks I have seen with relation to this is that
a) It will take much longer to train them
b) It will take longer for a proper bond to develop (but it will develop)

I have encountered (and had) many puppies that have been brought up this way and they have all been gentle, outgoing, well trained and sociable animals. I dunno, maybe I was lucky or something.

Noopti

peasant wrote: »

And?

And I don't see packs of rabid dogs roaming the streets due to being brought up "wrong". In fact, how many times have you met a dog that has been vicious or anti-social, compared to the opposite?
I have rarely met dogs with obvious behavioral problems, and if it is the case that dogs who are left at home when puppies will have problems in future, and most people these days do work full-time, and with the amount of dog owners in Ireland....I would have though the % of problem dogs would be much greater.

lightening

Noopti wrote: »

Most sources say that once they have a proper sized crate in the same living area that the rest of the pack usually reside (ie: in the home), and have good space, plenty of toys or games to amuse them and a comfy/warm bed to sleep, that they will be fine

Who told you this?? The OP is out for eight hours a day... While crate training is great, I'd say four hours max.

OP, I would go for an older Greyhound if I was in your shoes. If I was getting another dog it would be my choice. Very very quiet in the house, sleep a lot, super clean and good fun out on a walk.

cowzerp

O'k, look at it this way, these people are willing to take a dog out of the shelter, basically save it-and this is been made out as cruel!
most people work 40 hour weeks these days and have happy healthy dogs, dont let people who are lucky enough to have loads of spare time put you off.

Check out www.dogsindistress.org

i'd recommend getting 2 so they can keep each other company while you's are out, i dont like the idea of 1 dog on its own anyway, and then when your around you can interact with the dogs-play, train, walking..

Sigma Force

One thing you could do is approach a rescue that will match a dog to your situation, there is always the option of a dog walker if there is one in your area or if you put in a routinue straight away that the dog is walked morning and evening at specific times so they know from the start what's happening.

I wouldnt go for a young pup because from a practical side you need to be there to feed and toilet train them.

Getting two dogs instead of one while might be company for each other they want you at the end of the day so wether you have one or five they still wait for you to come home and it's you they miss.

A greyhound would be a great idea, doesn't have to be an older dog plenty dogs that are younger but not at puppy stage.

Many people work and have pets I mean if you don't work the moneys not there for food and vet bills esp these days when both people may have to work.

It's all about routine at the end of the day and dogs thrive on routine.

peasant

Noopti wrote: »

I would have though the % of problem dogs would be much greater.

Just have a look through this forum and see how many people have problems with dogs chewing things, dogs soiling the house, dogs barking constantly, dogs being afraid of things, etc, etc.

Plenty of problems to go around.

BTW ...why is the dog labelled a "problem dog" when it was clearly something else that caused the problem?

Because we like to twist things until they suit our point of view ...and as we have to go to work, the dog is supposed to be fine with it.

To make a somewhat exaggerated example:

A normal 12 week old pup, brought up in a household where soemone is dedicated to training it 24/7 can be toilet trained to be 99% accident free within a week max.

A pup that doesn't recieve that training might still be soiling the house three months on.

Now, leaving aside all the muck that the owner has to clean up, are you not doing damage to that dog? I don't know about its feelings / the psychological effects that soiling its own area has oon the dog ...but it is definetly impeded in its learning ability during the crucial first few weeks/months when its most formative development happens.

You wouldn't just leave a one year old child at home (with some food, water and a rattle) to fend for itself most of the day and expect it to grow up "normal", would you?

Well, neither will the dog.

cowzerp

Guineapigrescue wrote: »

Getting two dogs instead of one while might be company for each other they want you at the end of the day so wether you have one or five they still wait for you to come home and it's you they miss.

So because they'll miss you they might aswell have no company during the day! makes sense!

its called making the most of your situation.

carwash_2006

If I were thinking of getting a dog now I would probably go for a greyhound or lurcher. I got 2 small dogs thinking they would be easier, hah! They are from from easy and having transported greyhounds and lurchers and met people who have them as pets they would have been ten times easier.

Pups are way more likely to develop problems if they are left on their own for long periods every day. An older dog could be left into a doggy creche sometimes to help break up the time or you could get a dog walker in. You can't really do this for a pup as they need more care and I haven't come across anyone that offers that.

Sigma Force

Its the OPs choice at the end of the day wether they get one or two dogs. I have two dogs and have had a dog on their own as well made no difference to the dog wether they were on their own or with another dog they still want their human back.

Dogs can be kept without other dogs but with human care and company.

Guinea pigs and rabbits suffer a lot more from being kept on their own but most people couldnt care less about them sadly.

Glowing

carwash_2006 wrote: »

If I were thinking of getting a dog now I would probably go for a greyhound or lurcher.

Great choice! Fantastic pets!

cowzerp

Guineapigrescue wrote: »

I have two dogs and have had a dog on their own as well made no difference to the dog wether they were on their own or with another dog they still want their human back..

Yes they want there Human back, SO! how can you say they dont care if there on there own or not, of course there happier with company, there dogs and dog company is best,

if the owner is around all day they wont be lonely and bored, but if there gone, of course they will-did you video your dog when you where out? if not then how do you know it was all the same??

ncmc

Glowing wrote: »

I'd have to disagree there. Yes, *most* pup owners are out to work every day but that doesn't make it right. I think you were lucky to end up with such a well adjusted dog. I think it's particularly sad to see young 8 or 12 week old pups left at home alone for 8 or 9 hours daily. Given these guys have so much energy, they must get tragically bored.

I don't think it's so bad to leave an older dog at home - and I think in this case, one or two older rescues would be perfect for your situation. But I do think it would be necessary to get a dog walker for an hour at lunch time say 3 days a week, ideally every day.

Yes, pups do have a lot of energy, but they also sleep for upwards of 18 hours a day. If they get a good run in the morning and evening and a comfortable bed to sleep in, they will most likely sleep most of the day.

I don't think I was 'lucky' to get a well adjusted dog with being out all day, the vast, vast majority of dog owners I know are also out all day and I don't know any that have a dog with behavioural problems.

I'm not saying that I don't wish I could pop home to walk the dog at lunch time and spend a bit of time with her, I do, but it just isn't possible, so I make sacrifices in other ways in order to give her as much attention as possible.

I think the OP needs to look at the likely sacrifices and see if they are ones they are willing to make. The OP sounds like they would make a very caring and loving owner to me.

Noopti

I don't know about its feelings / the psychological effects that soiling its own area has oon the dog

A dog's area is defined as its den. This is only a small space where the bed is. A dog won't soil this area unless they are literally confined to this space. If they have a den area (crate) and this is contained within a good sized pen, then they will soil a separate area to their crate, usually the far corner of the pen, and this has no psychological affects on the dog as it is not soiling it's den.

When I say "problem dog" I am perfectly correct. As at that stage the dog is a problem. I'm not saying the owner isn't the cause of the problem, I am saying that due to the circumstances the owner has caused, the dog is now a problem until it can be rectified. Perfectly correct.

Glowing

Have you seen the huge number of posts recently on dogs which bark all day every day, who are left in the back garden for hours on end with a bowl of dirty water and a crappy wooden box? (Not saying the OP would do this but this is a good sign of a disturbed, unhappy, lonely dog)

I'd just be afraid that no matter how much attention you give your dog when you're at home, it's still going to be outside, and alone for most of the day.

peasant

ncmc wrote: »

Yes, pups do have a lot of energy, but they also sleep for upwards of 18 hours a day. If they get a good run in the morning and evening and a comfortable bed to sleep in, they will most likely sleep most of the day.

Let me put it this way:

Even wolves and wild dogs leave at least an adolescent young dog behind (if not the mother) when they have pups and need to go hunting.

Noopti

Glowing, I completely agree. And that is why I said that if you leave the dog alone for a good part of the day it should be left where it is most comfortable and where it spends most of it's time when with it's family. That is, inside the house.

I don't agree with leaving a dog outside all day as it is in an area where it spends most of it's time alone even when the owners are home (how many people stay outside in the garden most of the time, apart from the odd nice day?).

Even wolves and wild dogs leave at least an adolescent young dog behind (if not the mother) when they have pups and need to go hunting

That is for protection purposes, from predators. Pet dogs have not got the same instinctual behavior regarding predators.

ncmc

Glowing wrote: »

Have you seen the huge number of posts recently on dogs which bark all day every day, who are left in the back garden for hours on end with a bowl of dirty water and a crappy wooden box? (Not saying the OP would do this but this is a good sign of a disturbed, unhappy, lonely dog)

I'd just be afraid that no matter how much attention you give your dog when you're at home, it's still going to be outside, and alone for most of the day.

There is a difference in the scenario you have described (which is neglect, because the owner is not looking after the basic needs of the dog) and what most dog-owners do, which is exercise the dog in the morning, leave them clean water, food, adequate shelter and toys/kongs to help prevent the dog from getting bored. These two scenarios are worlds apart.

peasant

Noopti wrote: »

That is for protection purposes, from predators. Pet dogs have not got the same instinctual behavior regarding predators.

Protection from predators is one of the jobs the guardian does...but the main one would be the keep the pen clean and/or "herd" the pups and keep them out of mischief, depending on their age and agility.

Anyway ...it is just not right to leave young pup alone all day. They are to young, to inexperienced and could get into all sorts of trouble.

The only bowl of water, accidentally and clumsily spilled first thing in the morning on a hot day, curtains not drawn, sun baking the room ...that alone could be enough to let you arrive home to one dead puppy.

Noopti

That is why you use a sturdy bowl and don't allow the sun to bake the puppy on a hot day (ie: draw the curtains fully or partially).

Look, we are never going to agree on this. All I will say is that I have had plenty of dogs, and they never had any problems even when they were left alone as puppies during work hours. I am just going by my own personal experience.

big b

For what it's worth..
Our circumstances changed & we had to leave our own 3 year old terrier cross at home during the day. I'm lucky enough to work less than 10 mins from home, so she's on her own from 8:20 till I go home at lunchtime, then I take her out to the garden & the dog next door usually comes down to play with her. Then I leave the TV on for the afternoon till I get home at ten past five.
She seems happy enough most days, occassionally she'll be at the door & give a little whimper to say "c'mon in, I've been waiting hours for you" but I think that's mostly when she's seen or heard pheasants in the garden & she just wants the door open!
All in all, she's coped with the change really well.
I was going to build a run, but I honestly think she'd be happier in the house, with her bed & her treats.

For the OP, a rescue dog would be good because aprt from rescuing a dog, it'll probably already have been through the house training & chewing furniture stages.
I rescued my own dog- found her abandoned on an industrial estate. For all the shortcomings of leaving her alone during the day, she's got a damned sight better life than she would have had.

Moral high ground is one thing, real life is another, imho.