Best 3 arts to mix for fighting

cowzerp

O;k, its about time we got a little debate and craic going here!!

i seen this on another forum and there was some weird mixes!
There is loads of mixes but just put down your opinion and be ready to say why you chose your 3!!
Best 3 arts for MMA style matches, NHB etc..

Judomad

cowzerp wrote: »

O;k, its about time we got a little debate and craic going here!!

i seen this on another forum and there was some weird mixes!
There is loads of mixes but just put down your opinion and be ready to say why you chose your 3!!
Best 3 arts for MMA style matches, NHB etc..

1) boxing
2) judo
3) wrestling

thats an easy one. no need for kicks if you have them 3, a punch is faster than a kick, and also you cant kick if your on your back...

RedRaven

Boxing
Muay Thai
BJJ

Richie_Gorey

muay thai
wrestling
bjj

Judomad

Richie_Gorey wrote: »

muay thai
wrestling
bjj

is that richard gorey from fethard????

Charlie3dan

Ninjitsu
Shaolin Kung Fu
Tai Chi













.....nah i'm kidding but you should see your faces!!!!

Richie_Gorey

Yup.

I know your prob thinking i'm a traitor for leaving out judo, but if it was any 2 styles i would of said judo and muay thai.

cowzerp

Charlie3dan wrote: »

Ninjitsu
Shaolin Kung Fu
Tai Chi


.....nah i'm kidding but you should see your faces!!!!

Damn i really thought you where serious-was going to ask for you in my next mma match!!!

By the way, Trad arts people are welcome, just be ready for grilling on reasons why!!

Charlie3dan

cowzerp wrote: »

Damn i really thought you where serious-was going to ask for you in my next mma match!!!

Sorry it was cruel but irresistable

Judomad

cowzerp wrote: »

Damn i really thought you where serious-was going to ask for you in my next mma match!!!

would have been class, haha

and richie, i wouldnt say your a traitor, i genuinely think judo is one of the best as you are comfortable standing and on the ground whether your on your back or all 4s, so i reckon my 3 are the perfect mix, but damn i for bout ninjitsu and tai-chi haha

Martin Walker

Muay Thai: Explosive striking with elbows and knees
Wrestling: Control in clinch. Take downs and big slams. GNP
BJJ: Submissions can flow from any position.

cowzerp

Striking-Boxing-footwork, fast hands and less risk of been taking down than other striking arts! plus adding in kicks and knee's is easy with good boxing.

Wrestling-controlling where the fight takes place, standing or on the ground due to great takedowns and defense.

BJJ-full body submissions and submission defense.

The ultimate fighter!

Martin Walker

cowzerp wrote: »

Striking-Boxing-footwork, fast hands and less risk of been taking down than other striking arts! plus adding in kicks and knee's is easy with good boxing.

Wrestling-controlling where the fight takes place, standing or on the ground due to great takedowns and defense.

BJJ-full body submissions and submission defense.

The ultimate fighter!

HEY!
Thats wot i said!
Ure copyin me.:)

Nothingcompares

thai,submission wrestling,yoga

Conchubhair

Judo
Muay Thai
JiuJitsu (not BJJ< :mad: >...traditional jiujitsu of course)

Mark Hamill

Charlie3dan wrote: »

Ninjitsu
Shaolin Kung Fu
Tai Chi



.....nah i'm kidding but you should see your faces!!!!

Looked something like this :


For me, it would be Muay Thai, BJJ and Wrestling, pretty much for the same reasons as Martin Walker

Mark Hamill

Conchubhair wrote: »

JiuJitsu (not BJJ< :mad: >...traditional jiujitsu of course)

Really? why?, what do you think it does better than BJJ?

Khannie

Judomad wrote: »

no need for kicks if you have them 3, a punch is faster than a kick, and also you cant kick if your on your back...

You're forgetting knees and elbows. Honestly, I think relying on your hands as your sole source of striking for someone who's supposed to be a well rounded fighter would be madness.

cowzerp wrote:

Striking-Boxing-footwork, fast hands and less risk of been taking down than other striking arts! plus adding in kicks and knee's is easy with good boxing.

You could easily turn that around and say that level of boxing a Muay Thai practitioner achieves is more than good enough when you throw in the extra weapons they have.

Also, kicking is easy, you're right. Kicking with speed and power is very difficult to achieve though. I think it's safe to say that someone who doesn't practice kicking a lot will have their kick seen a mile away and be taken down fairly swiftly. If you don't kick at all in a fight, your opponent will surely see this weakness and exploit it with leg kicks (which are low risk and potentially high reward).

My 3:

Muay Thai
BJJ
Wrestling

FiannaGym.com

1, MMA Stand-up
2, MMA Clinch
3, MMA Ground

Peace

cowzerp

Khannie wrote: »

Also, kicking is easy, you're right. Kicking with speed and power is very difficult to achieve though. I think it's safe to say that someone who doesn't practice kicking a lot will have their kick seen a mile away and be taken down fairly swiftly. If you don't kick at all in a fight, your opponent will surely see this weakness and exploit it with leg kicks (which are low risk and potentially high reward).
My 3:

There is no right answers here! just opinions!
we train all the weapons but do it in a more boxing style!
we dont train muay thai, but do train punching, knee's, elbows and kicks but it is all based around boxing-very different to muay thai. so i'm a boxer who kicks and grapples! call it what you want-i call it mma!

Martin Walker

I think your all sick.

Violence solves nothing........

Whats wrong with a good book and some quiet meditation? Maybe some watercolors?:D

arybvtcw0eolkf

Muay Thai,

BJJ &/or No Gi grappling.

When I've seen a Judoka confident in his take down's I'd put Judo a joint second with BJJ.

TKD SC

Mairt wrote: »

Muay Thai,

BJJ &/or No Gi grappling.

When I've seen a Judoka confident in his take down's I'd put Judo a joint second with BJJ.

Hey Mairt,

Can you expand on this a little? Should a Judoka not be more confident in their takedowns than bjj / most ma's anyway?...Or do you mean at that point, they'd take more time to practise their ground game? Maybe I'm just reading it wrong.

Just curious and interested in what you meant!
Tks

Simon

Also, was thinking - I like this approach of mentioning the "best 2" as opposed to the "best 3" to train in, in that most people who cross train might have a main MA and then train in a 2nd one while it would be harder to find time to actually train in 3 seperate MA's for people? Which might bring it back to Fianna Gyms comment of MMA, MMA, MMA as making the most sense! But given the thread is a bit of fun, what would people say are the 2 MAs they'd pick if they could only pick 2? And you can't pick MMA as them both!!

O'Leprosy

Richie_Gorey wrote: »

muay thai
wrestling
bjj

Martin Walker wrote: »

Muay Thai: Explosive striking with elbows and knees
Wrestling: Control in clinch. Take downs and big slams. GNP
BJJ: Submissions can flow from any position.

Fully agreed, I reckon boxing is over rated for MMA, think some of the fans of good old fashioned boxing just don't want to let go, understandable, ( BTW boxing was my first combat sport so it's not that I'm bigoted against it ). Supposing you trained a boxer in BJJ and Wrestling, Ground and Pound etc, but doing no other form of standup striking except boxing. Put him against a Muay Thai fighter and he'd be completely lost on how to cope with kicks, ( not just low leg kicks ), knees in the clinch, elbows etc. BTW, only trained in a few classes of Thai, black belt in TKD, still reckon from my though short experience, Muay Thai beats any striking system.

yomchi

Just to throw a spanner in,
Having all the necessary skills to be an all round fighter means shag all if you haven't the mindset - more commonly knowns as 'the balls' to do what has to be done when it has to be done.
So, the question should be, which art can equip me with the mindset to be an all round fighter - answer, none.
It's an individual thing. Some of the best scrappers on the street never trained a day in their lives. The most ruthless are sociopaths or those with balls in abundance but with no morals . The sport to combat these nuts, is sprinting and long jumping.

O'Leprosy

Jon wrote: »

Just to throw a spanner in,
Having all the necessary skills to be an all round fighter means shag all if you haven't the mindset - more commonly knowns as 'the balls' to do what has to be done when it has to be done.
So, the question should be, which art can equip me with the mindset to be an all round fighter - answer, none.
It's an individual thing. Some of the best scrappers on the street never trained a day in their lives. The most ruthless are sociopaths or those with balls in abundance but with no morals . The sport to combat these nuts, is sprinting and long jumping.

Looks like I've been rumbled, spanner removed

hypnosisdublin

Sambo
Wrestling
Muay-Thai

Fozzy

There was a question on Inside MMA (an American tv show that covers MMA, Bas Rutten is one of the hosts) last week asking what was the most important martial art for MMA out of wrestling, BJJ and Muay Thai. A poll on their website said BJJ was most important and Bas was a bit surprised by that. He said that wrestling is the most important because it's the MMA fighters who have great wrestling who are able to choose where the fight takes place. Josh Barnett and Dan Severn were on and they agreed with Bas. They brought up the recent Serra vs GSP fight, GSP's wrestling won that fight

Ramunas

Sambo
muay thai
BJJ

Roper

I love BJJ, but if I had access to high level wrestling and I was training to fight pro MMA, AND I had to pick one and not do both, then I'd pick wrestling.

I can't remember who said it, but it was someone on here, anyway it was to do with access. Judo is much, much more prevalent in Ireland than Freestyle or Greco, ergo the standard is higher, there are more bodies to train with, there is a very high standard of coaching and there are loads of clubs competing at a high level. So no matter how much better Greco or Freestyle are for MMA, you're likely to get much better training for the clinch from Judo if you live in Dublin, or Belmullet, or Clonrickart.

The same goes for BJJ. No what Bas, or Severn or anyone else thinks (Barnett seems to bring BJJ vs. Wrestling up in every interview) is academic as they don't live in Ireland. We have next to no wrestling here, and are not likely to have any Olympians, we have good BJJ and growing. So what's the best things to train in for MMA in IRELAND?

Muay Thai
Boxing
Judo
BJJ

Word!

Pingu

Being new to this mma thingy, as shown by my lovely standing feotal defense :pac: i'll just respond to Jon's mindset thing, from chatting to Vladimir Pogodin, Manager of RTT last november he reckoned in Combat Sambo, not a million miles from mma, that it was completely about mindset - where no matter what the damage they took that they kept going - basiclly balls.

Although, in saying that all bar one pulled out of fighting Fedor, the guy that fought him was huge and looked an absolute mess after it.

yomchi

yep, skill is nothing without mindset. A man might feel great being armed to the teeth, but not having the stomach to fire a shot raises a moot point in the whole thing.

Nothingcompares

Not surprised one of the combatives guys would be quick to jump in talking about mindsets and balls and ripping balls off people. I would imagine balls would be lower on the list of anatomical requirements for fighting than eyes. Japanese movies aside I don't think being blind would be beneficial to being in a fight.

Having said that, those martial arts with a significant portion of time spent on sparring not only equip you with the skills to use the martial art in an "alive" or realistic environment but prepare you mentally, to a significant extent, for the psychology needed to be successful in a physical conflict.

yomchi

Nothingcompares wrote: »

Not surprised one of the combatives guys would be quick to jump in talking about mindsets and balls and ripping balls off people. I would imagine balls would be lower on the list of anatomical requirements for fighting than eyes. Japanese movies aside I don't think being blind would be beneficial to being in a fight.

Having said that, those martial arts with a significant portion of time spent on sparring not only equip you with the skills to use the martial art in an "alive" or realistic environment but prepare you mentally, to a significant extent, for the psychology needed to be successful in a physical conflict.

Sorry, are other people allowed have an opinion here?
Can you point out where I said anyting about ripping people's balls off or anything about eyes ripping?
Sorry if i brought in the whole concept of mindset, I concur, skills are all you need - if you're a robot.
You don't need to know jack about 'combatives' to understand mind set and the need of a strong one in any physical conflict whether it be inside the ring or out.

ryoishin

Bas would say that about wrestling. He admits himself that it was nt until he moved to america that he learned to defend takedowns. He also had the same view as roper, there was nt many wrestling guys in holland.

Pride Fighter

Iado
Kendo
Western Fencing

Mikel

3 seems a pretty arbitrary number

Nothingcompares

3 ranges - standing, clinch, ground.

Tim_Murphy

Sorry if i brought in the whole concept of mindset, I concur, skills are all you need - if you're a robot.
You don't need to know jack about 'combatives' to understand mind set and the need of a strong one in any physical conflict whether it be inside the ring or out.

Agree 100%

Anybody with any bit of experience coaching people in any combat sport would agree with that. As often as not IMO minset/mental attitude marks the winners from the losers.

Judomad

Pingu wrote: »

Being new to this mma thingy, as shown by my lovely standing feotal defense :pac: i'll just respond to Jon's mindset thing, from chatting to Vladimir Pogodin, Manager of RTT last november he reckoned in Combat Sambo, not a million miles from mma, that it was completely about mindset - where no matter what the damage they took that they kept going - basiclly balls.

Although, in saying that all bar one pulled out of fighting Fedor, the guy that fought him was huge and looked an absolute mess after it.

2008 world combat sambo silver medalist at +100kg lost to Thomas Egan in COT in march in the first round and that was at 85kg so i really really do not rate combat sambo in the slightest to be honest. poor striking, poor takedowns, poor position on the ground and from what i saw poor leg locks(which is all that was attempted)

judomick

Judomad wrote: »

i really really do not rate combat sambo in the slightest to be honest. poor striking, poor takedowns, poor position on the ground and from what i saw poor leg locks(which is all that was attempted)

Tell Fedor that

Im not sure of the differences between combat sambo and regular sambo, but have you had a randori with Sergei or Valeri?

Judomad

judomick wrote: »

Tell Fedor that

Im not sure of the differences between combat sambo and regular sambo, but have you had a randori with Sergei or Valeri?

there doing judo now though, and we are not talking about judo here, his quote said Combat Sambo and MMA were much the same, which i disagree with...

Khannie

cowzerp wrote: »

There is no right answers here! just opinions!

Very true.

cowzerp wrote: »

we train all the weapons but do it in a more boxing style!
we dont train muay thai, but do train punching, knee's, elbows and kicks but it is all based around boxing-very different to muay thai. so i'm a boxer who kicks and grapples! call it what you want-i call it mma!

Gotcha. I didn't quite understand at the time what you meant by "Striking-Boxing-footwork".

judomick

Judomad wrote: »

there doing judo now though, and we are not talking about judo here, his quote said Combat Sambo and MMA were much the same, which i disagree with...

So they are only good because the train judo now? they did not gain anything from sambo? i could very well be wrong here but sergei fought in the world championships in Japan (sambo) and valeri took a medal in the european championships, so they both have a big background in sambo you only have to train leglocks with Sergei to see that..

he said they were not a million miles apart not they are much the same, and i dont think they are a million miles apart, although im not saying all sambo players would make excellent MMA fighters either

Judomad

judomick wrote: »

i could very well be wrong here but sergei fought in the world championships in Japan (sambo) and valeri took a medal in the european championships, so they both have a big background in sambo you only have to train leglocks with Sergei to see that..

and as i said this years silver medalist in the worlds and he also had silver in last years europeans and bronze in the worlds was dominated on the ground from a fighter who has a boxing background.....therefore the standard of the "world" championships in combat sambo is quite low in my opinion..and i have ".." around world as what other countries bar eastern european countries do combat sambo???

and again i never said there only good from judo, but i dont think combat sambo is much the same as MMA as they never ever seem to want to strike, in combat sambo you will rarely see knees or elbows used, very little boxing but they do tend to use some "safe" low leg kicks... and then want it on the ground so its more submission wrestling than MMA. again opinons are aloud Mick..

Roper

I thought that lad had good ground and seemed quite close with one of his leglock attempts. You have to take into account the standard of opponent too, Tom is no run of the mill fighter he's a tough blue belt in jitz and has great MMA too. Sure he got GnPed but lots of guys who have thai, judo, BJJ etc. get GnPed. Judging a whole system on one performance of one guy hardly seems fair. It's a bit like saying you lost your last fight in Galway ergo boxing and Judo is rubbish for MMA.

For what it's worth any Sambo guys I've trained with are tough!

judomick

Judomad wrote: »

and again i never said there only good from judo,..

your reply when i noted their background in sambo was "but they do Judo now though"

Judomad wrote: »

i dont think combat sambo is much the same as MMA as they never ever seem to want to strike, so its more submission wrestling than MMA. again opinons are aloud Mick..

i would say sumission grappling, wrestling and boxing are all very closely tied to MMA they form the base of the sport

of course opinions are allowed so is debating,

Judomad

Roper wrote: »

It's a bit like saying you lost your last fight in Galway ergo boxing and Judo is rubbish for MMA.QUOTE]

ouch...that galway fight is a sore spot for me................haha

but i know arturas well enough(me and him actually started the club he runs in swords) and i was never impressed with thwe whole combat sambo...maybe sambo and combat sambo or different(feel free to linch me if thats wrong) but as i said IMO i dont combat sambo, as a side note, the lad who fought Davey Kelly at ROT was also one of Arthurs understudies...davey made light work of that too.

Nothingcompares

Tim_Murphy wrote: »

Agree 100%

Anybody with any bit of experience coaching people in any combat sport would agree with that. As often as not IMO minset/mental attitude marks the winners from the losers.

There's nothing unusual about the significance of mindset/mental attitude in distinguishing winners from losers in combat sports. It's the same reason Tiger Woods, Stefi Graff, Michael Schumacher, all these top athletes got to the highest level.

Pingu

Definitions:
Sport sambo and combat sambo are different, sport sambo would be similar to judo but no strangles or chokes but leglocks are allowed. Different scoring system. Combat Sambo then allows striking on top of that.

The 2008 world championships aren't being held until November in St. Petersburg.

Pedantic:
I didn't say they were much the same, i said they weren't a million miles apart. Difference on the degree of similarity. OK I'm being hungover and pedantic.

The comparison with it is that it it covers all three ranges, and I used it show the mindset type of thing. While it was at a Sambo conversation that was had, the guy runs Russian Top Team aswell so he'd be versed enough in MMA

How much combat sambo have you seen out of interest to say that it's poor in all three ranges

Tim_Murphy

There's nothing unusual about the significance of mindset/mental attitude in distinguishing winners from losers in combat sports.

I didn't say there was.