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Best 3 arts to mix for fighting

24

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,621 ✭✭✭yomchi


    yep, skill is nothing without mindset. A man might feel great being armed to the teeth, but not having the stomach to fire a shot raises a moot point in the whole thing.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,923 ✭✭✭Nothingcompares


    Not surprised one of the combatives guys would be quick to jump in talking about mindsets and balls and ripping balls off people. I would imagine balls would be lower on the list of anatomical requirements for fighting than eyes. Japanese movies aside I don't think being blind would be beneficial to being in a fight.

    Having said that, those martial arts with a significant portion of time spent on sparring not only equip you with the skills to use the martial art in an "alive" or realistic environment but prepare you mentally, to a significant extent, for the psychology needed to be successful in a physical conflict.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,621 ✭✭✭yomchi


    Not surprised one of the combatives guys would be quick to jump in talking about mindsets and balls and ripping balls off people. I would imagine balls would be lower on the list of anatomical requirements for fighting than eyes. Japanese movies aside I don't think being blind would be beneficial to being in a fight.

    Having said that, those martial arts with a significant portion of time spent on sparring not only equip you with the skills to use the martial art in an "alive" or realistic environment but prepare you mentally, to a significant extent, for the psychology needed to be successful in a physical conflict.

    Sorry, are other people allowed have an opinion here?
    Can you point out where I said anyting about ripping people's balls off or anything about eyes ripping?
    Sorry if i brought in the whole concept of mindset, I concur, skills are all you need - if you're a robot.
    You don't need to know jack about 'combatives' to understand mind set and the need of a strong one in any physical conflict whether it be inside the ring or out.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 753 ✭✭✭ryoishin


    Bas would say that about wrestling. He admits himself that it was nt until he moved to america that he learned to defend takedowns. He also had the same view as roper, there was nt many wrestling guys in holland.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,729 ✭✭✭Pride Fighter


    Iado
    Kendo
    Western Fencing


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 863 ✭✭✭Mikel


    3 seems a pretty arbitrary number


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,923 ✭✭✭Nothingcompares


    3 ranges - standing, clinch, ground.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,995 ✭✭✭Tim_Murphy


    Sorry if i brought in the whole concept of mindset, I concur, skills are all you need - if you're a robot.
    You don't need to know jack about 'combatives' to understand mind set and the need of a strong one in any physical conflict whether it be inside the ring or out.
    Agree 100%

    Anybody with any bit of experience coaching people in any combat sport would agree with that. As often as not IMO minset/mental attitude marks the winners from the losers.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 830 ✭✭✭Judomad


    Pingu wrote: »
    Being new to this mma thingy, as shown by my lovely standing feotal defense :pac: i'll just respond to Jon's mindset thing, from chatting to Vladimir Pogodin, Manager of RTT last november he reckoned in Combat Sambo, not a million miles from mma, that it was completely about mindset - where no matter what the damage they took that they kept going - basiclly balls.

    Although, in saying that all bar one pulled out of fighting Fedor, the guy that fought him was huge and looked an absolute mess after it.

    2008 world combat sambo silver medalist at +100kg lost to Thomas Egan in COT in march in the first round and that was at 85kg so i really really do not rate combat sambo in the slightest to be honest. poor striking, poor takedowns, poor position on the ground and from what i saw poor leg locks(which is all that was attempted)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 695 ✭✭✭judomick


    Judomad wrote: »
    i really really do not rate combat sambo in the slightest to be honest. poor striking, poor takedowns, poor position on the ground and from what i saw poor leg locks(which is all that was attempted)
    Tell Fedor that

    Im not sure of the differences between combat sambo and regular sambo, but have you had a randori with Sergei or Valeri?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 830 ✭✭✭Judomad


    judomick wrote: »
    Tell Fedor that

    Im not sure of the differences between combat sambo and regular sambo, but have you had a randori with Sergei or Valeri?

    there doing judo now though, and we are not talking about judo here, his quote said Combat Sambo and MMA were much the same, which i disagree with...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,485 ✭✭✭✭Khannie


    cowzerp wrote: »
    There is no right answers here! just opinions!

    Very true. :)
    cowzerp wrote: »
    we train all the weapons but do it in a more boxing style!
    we dont train muay thai, but do train punching, knee's, elbows and kicks but it is all based around boxing-very different to muay thai. so i'm a boxer who kicks and grapples! call it what you want-i call it mma!

    Gotcha. I didn't quite understand at the time what you meant by "Striking-Boxing-footwork".


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 695 ✭✭✭judomick


    Judomad wrote: »
    there doing judo now though, and we are not talking about judo here, his quote said Combat Sambo and MMA were much the same, which i disagree with...
    So they are only good because the train judo now? they did not gain anything from sambo? i could very well be wrong here but sergei fought in the world championships in Japan (sambo) and valeri took a medal in the european championships, so they both have a big background in sambo you only have to train leglocks with Sergei to see that..

    he said they were not a million miles apart not they are much the same, and i dont think they are a million miles apart, although im not saying all sambo players would make excellent MMA fighters either


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 830 ✭✭✭Judomad


    judomick wrote: »
    i could very well be wrong here but sergei fought in the world championships in Japan (sambo) and valeri took a medal in the european championships, so they both have a big background in sambo you only have to train leglocks with Sergei to see that..

    and as i said this years silver medalist in the worlds and he also had silver in last years europeans and bronze in the worlds was dominated on the ground from a fighter who has a boxing background.....therefore the standard of the "world" championships in combat sambo is quite low in my opinion..and i have ".." around world as what other countries bar eastern european countries do combat sambo???

    and again i never said there only good from judo, but i dont think combat sambo is much the same as MMA as they never ever seem to want to strike, in combat sambo you will rarely see knees or elbows used, very little boxing but they do tend to use some "safe" low leg kicks... and then want it on the ground so its more submission wrestling than MMA. again opinons are aloud Mick..


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,448 ✭✭✭Roper


    I thought that lad had good ground and seemed quite close with one of his leglock attempts. You have to take into account the standard of opponent too, Tom is no run of the mill fighter he's a tough blue belt in jitz and has great MMA too. Sure he got GnPed but lots of guys who have thai, judo, BJJ etc. get GnPed. Judging a whole system on one performance of one guy hardly seems fair. It's a bit like saying you lost your last fight in Galway ergo boxing and Judo is rubbish for MMA.

    For what it's worth any Sambo guys I've trained with are tough!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 695 ✭✭✭judomick


    Judomad wrote: »
    and again i never said there only good from judo,..
    your reply when i noted their background in sambo was "but they do Judo now though"
    Judomad wrote: »
    i dont think combat sambo is much the same as MMA as they never ever seem to want to strike, so its more submission wrestling than MMA. again opinons are aloud Mick..

    i would say sumission grappling, wrestling and boxing are all very closely tied to MMA they form the base of the sport

    of course opinions are allowed so is debating,


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 830 ✭✭✭Judomad


    Roper wrote: »
    It's a bit like saying you lost your last fight in Galway ergo boxing and Judo is rubbish for MMA.QUOTE]

    ouch...that galway fight is a sore spot for me................haha

    but i know arturas well enough(me and him actually started the club he runs in swords) and i was never impressed with thwe whole combat sambo...maybe sambo and combat sambo or different(feel free to linch me if thats wrong) but as i said IMO i dont combat sambo, as a side note, the lad who fought Davey Kelly at ROT was also one of Arthurs understudies...davey made light work of that too.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,923 ✭✭✭Nothingcompares


    Tim_Murphy wrote: »
    Agree 100%

    Anybody with any bit of experience coaching people in any combat sport would agree with that. As often as not IMO minset/mental attitude marks the winners from the losers.

    There's nothing unusual about the significance of mindset/mental attitude in distinguishing winners from losers in combat sports. It's the same reason Tiger Woods, Stefi Graff, Michael Schumacher, all these top athletes got to the highest level.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 241 ✭✭Pingu


    Definitions:
    Sport sambo and combat sambo are different, sport sambo would be similar to judo but no strangles or chokes but leglocks are allowed. Different scoring system. Combat Sambo then allows striking on top of that.

    The 2008 world championships aren't being held until November in St. Petersburg.

    Pedantic:
    I didn't say they were much the same, i said they weren't a million miles apart. Difference on the degree of similarity. OK I'm being hungover and pedantic.

    The comparison with it is that it it covers all three ranges, and I used it show the mindset type of thing. While it was at a Sambo conversation that was had, the guy runs Russian Top Team aswell so he'd be versed enough in MMA

    How much combat sambo have you seen out of interest to say that it's poor in all three ranges


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,995 ✭✭✭Tim_Murphy


    There's nothing unusual about the significance of mindset/mental attitude in distinguishing winners from losers in combat sports.
    I didn't say there was.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 830 ✭✭✭Judomad


    Pingu wrote: »
    Definitions:
    Sport sambo and combat sambo are different, sport sambo would be similar to judo but no strangles or chokes but leglocks are allowed. Different scoring system. Combat Sambo then allows striking on top of that.

    The 2008 world championships aren't being held until November in St. Petersburg.

    Pedantic:
    I didn't say they were much the same, i said they weren't a million miles apart. Difference on the degree of similarity. OK I'm being hungover and pedantic.

    The comparison with it is that it it covers all three ranges, and I used it show the mindset type of thing. While it was at a Sambo conversation that was had, the guy runs Russian Top Team aswell so he'd be versed enough in MMA

    How much combat sambo have you seen out of interest to say that it's poor in all three ranges

    well then it must have been 07(time flies when your having fun) ha, look it up though, arturas prankavicius or something like that.
    and iv seen alot as i said we started up a club which is called "Comabt Sambo Academy"
    and an aside from that..russian top team is un-official along with everything else that say there a "Top Team" apart from American Top Team, Brazilian Top Team and the newly made official Irish Top Team, straight from Ricardo Liborio's mouth himself, and there was about 40 other people who heard this from the man wholl back me up :D:p:D:p


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2 stavrosthelost


    dont know a huge amount about which is best have done a few bits as a hobby and i have heard there is a lichingwu just started up, dont think its a mixed martial believe the art covers all areas of combat not sure do :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 492 ✭✭Burnt


    JudoMad, this is all irrelavant, it could be combat yoga for all the difference it makes?

    Do you think that mind set makes a difference or not? If you don't have the will to win;
    a will that exceeds the sting of getting hit in the kidneys and dropped on your head;
    the pain of having you pride dinted in the occasional beat down or the balls to
    step up and fight in the first place; you won't win or achieve anything no matter
    who or what you train.

    What makes a great fighter? Desire/ego, hard work, natural ability, then the art.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 830 ✭✭✭Judomad


    Burnt wrote: »
    JudoMad, this is all irrelavant, it could be combat yoga for all the difference it makes?

    Do you think that mind set makes a difference or not? If you don't have the will to win;
    a will that exceeds the sting of getting hit in the kidneys and dropped on your head;
    the pain of having you pride dinted in the occasional beat down or the balls to
    step up and fight in the first place; you won't win or achieve anything no matter
    who or what you train.

    What makes a great fighter? Desire/ego, hard work, natural ability, then the art.

    why is it irrelevant, people are entitled to there opinion, of and your post while it all sounds fancy and all, its still common knowledge, not everybody has the balls to fight in MMA but those who do and those who dont quit when they feel like dying are the ones that achieve in the long run, 3x5min rounds is alot harder than you may think..


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 492 ✭✭Burnt


    The reference of "Combat Sambo" in pingu original post is irrevalant to the
    essential point of his arguement. I was trying to clarify what i think that point is.

    From a Personal perspective i would say if you want to do mma train mma;
    but that's a bit of a cop out, so thai free-style wrestling and BJJ though i
    do like judo.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,448 ✭✭✭Roper


    I cry every time I watch The Champ.


    Sorry, there was just so much said about having a tough mindset that I thought it would be a good time to say that I don't.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 512 ✭✭✭TKD SC


    Roper wrote: »
    I cry every time I watch The Champ.

    .

    Great movie! :(


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 241 ✭✭Pingu


    Combat Yoga - I like it, some funky subs there.

    Yeah I brought up the combat sambo thing as a reference due to my relative lack of knowledge of mma, and they look similar enough to me.

    Just trying to add credence to my arguement really.

    P.S. http://www.mmauniverse.com/teams/SS28 see it's a real team :cool:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 512 ✭✭✭TKD SC


    To summarise:

    The q's being the 3 best MA's to train in for fighting. Nearly everyone here has mentioned the same few MA's, namely:

    Boxing & Muay Thai for striking;
    Judo & Wrestling for clinch;
    BJJ (incl sub wrestling / no gi) for the ground.

    So, I guess that's the answer! I thought Roper made a very good pt re what's available in Irl hence putting Judo higher up his list than wrestling when it comes to actually training in clinch in Irl.

    I think Jon and Tim's points of mind set etc is very valid, and I always tend to think that so much comes down to the individual (characteristics, natural ability, dedication, fighting mind set, fitness & conditioning etc etc) over any one MA / skill that can be learned through any one MA.

    Another question of interest might be: given the above MA's, is it better to train in each of these individually and try to become an expert in each one or to purely just train in a MMA class every week (albeit they might focus on a different range each class but there will no doubt be a mix of all 3 ranges, esp if sparring done at the end) vs a BJJ / Judo class (as an example) where striking will never ever be covered or a boxing class where grappling will never ever be covered??

    Or is MMA a bit like being a jack of all trades but master of none and its better to be a true "master" in just one of boxing / judo / bjj instead of knowing a bit of everything?

    My own view would be the answer is somewhere in the middle - ie do x class y times per week but also compliment it by doing z classes in your weaker range. This had all sounded better in my head! but its been a long day!


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,549 ✭✭✭✭cowzerp


    TKD SC wrote: »
    Or is MMA a bit like being a jack of all trades but master of none and its better to be a true "master" in just one of boxing / judo / bjj instead of knowing a bit of everything?
    Overall good post TKD378393!
    MMA is a jack of all trades, so sometimes there is fighters who are very good but probably not great at any range, if you want to be great at 1 aspect, say boxing-then it needs to be trained independley, plenty of fighters get by been average all round, been a master of 1 and bad at the rest is not good enough in mma, if you can be decent all round and a master of 1 then you have an advantage in my opinion! weaknesses will be exploited, thats for sure.

    Rush Boxing club and Rush Martial Arts head coach.



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