Aer Lingus US Seat Sale

avantarklu

Stealdo wrote: »

The big difference between your opinion on this and the opposing opinions (including mine) is that I am basing it on what is right and wrong not what is someone's legal right or so called entitlement. No one has a moral right to make a profit out of someone else's genuine mistake regardless of whether there are laws there. What makes this most galling to me is that these people are attempting to exploit laws that were put in place to protect consumers with genuine cases and uphold fairness. This belittles consumer law as well as those involved. And all so that they can have their little bargain. They may be within their legal rights, they may not be, but in my mind their no better than someone climbing in the window of a bus after it has crashed hoping for compensation. It's not the legalities of it that make it that way, it's the morals of it. They're the ones that will have to live with that, and I don't think it bothers them so good luck to them. I have to say seeing those three women in the Indo today with their confirmation letters and sad little faces made me pity them that this is something they think is worth pursuing and right to pursue. No better than what Pat Kenny tried to do.

Again as I said not a legal argument, a moral one. When did we get to the point where "Right and Wrong" became "My Rights and wrong"?

Your opinion is based on the assumption that Aer Lingus's claim that this matter arose from a "genuine mistake" is 100% factual. I do not suggest that the offer was necessarily deliberate however there are other possibilities aside from 'genuine mistake'.

Why should AL be believed without question that they made a 'genuine mistake' whereas every customer who booked one of these flights was acting in an immoral fashion, knowing full well they were trying to profit from an obvious error?

AL operate a particular type of business in a particular type of market, that is highly competitive where unbelievable fares are the norm.

As a result of this affair, AL will no doubt put in place additional checks and balances to safeguard themselves. This is a fundamental fact of business life - you learn from your mistakes, make improvements and prosper. Compare this to the same mistake they made in 2003. At that time, they were not a PLC and did not have the shareholders they have today to answer to. What lessons did they learn from 2003? Clearly that lesson did not have the necessary impact that it should have had.

Stealdo

avantarklu wrote: »

Your opinion is based on the assumption that Aer Lingus's claim that this matter arose from a "genuine mistake" is 100% factual. I do not suggest that the offer was necessarily deliberate however there are other possibilities aside from 'genuine mistake'.

Why should AL be believed without question that they made a 'genuine mistake' whereas every customer who booked one of these flights was acting in an immoral fashion, knowing full well they were trying to profit from an obvious error?

AL operate a particular type of business in a particular type of market, that is highly competitive where unbelievable fares are the norm.

As a result of this affair, AL will no doubt put in place additional checks and balances to safeguard themselves. This is a fundamental fact of business life - you learn from your mistakes, make improvements and prosper. Compare this to the same mistake they made in 2003. At that time, they were not a PLC and did not have the shareholders they have today to answer to. What lessons did they learn from 2003? Clearly that lesson did not have the necessary impact that it should have had.

This is the last post I'll make on this subject, because my opinion is clearly laid out above and it's not going to change, but I will just respond to clarify a couple of things from the points in your post...

1. Why would AL be believed? because this is so obviously a mistake they didn't even have to say it was, the first poster here even suggested it was probably a mistake. There is zero marketing value in this, there is absolutely no reason for anyone with no separate agenda to doubt it.

2. Every Customer acting in an immoral fashion? No - that's not what I said. I have no issue whatsoever with people having booked these flights. I only have issue with them exploiting laws and shouting the odds about their 'rights' and 'entitlements' because they didn't end up getting their freebie.

3. Unbelievable fares may be the norm, business class seats for €5 are far from it. (this by the way is completely irrelevant because once it's established as a mistake, norm or not makes no difference)

4. AL will learn from this....Sure they will. But that doesn't give the sub-portion of these 300 individuals who are making all the noise any rights whatsoever to profit from it. It is not them gaining from AL's mistake that I object to, or AL suffering for it. It is them demanding that they have a right to be compensated for something that never happened and in doing so demanding that they have a right to profit from the error. And it irritates me further that others are holding them up as if they were defending the rights of consumers everywhere.

<---leaves the room

dal

Stealdo wrote: »

<---leaves the room

Thank god for that!



Congrats to everyone who got their flight. Have a great time!

avantarklu

Stealdo wrote: »

This is the last post I'll make on this subject, because my opinion is clearly laid out above and it's not going to change, but I will just respond to clarify a couple of things from the points in your post...

1. Why would AL be believed? because this is so obviously a mistake they didn't even have to say it was, the first poster here even suggested it was probably a mistake. There is zero marketing value in this, there is absolutely no reason for anyone with no separate agenda to doubt it.

2. Every Customer acting in an immoral fashion? No - that's not what I said. I have no issue whatsoever with people having booked these flights. I only have issue with them exploiting laws and shouting the odds about their 'rights' and 'entitlements' because they didn't end up getting their freebie.

3. Unbelievable fares may be the norm, business class seats for €5 are far from it. (this by the way is completely irrelevant because once it's established as a mistake, norm or not makes no difference)

4. AL will learn from this....Sure they will. But that doesn't give the sub-portion of these 300 individuals who are making all the noise any rights whatsoever to profit from it. It is not them gaining from AL's mistake that I object to, or AL suffering for it. It is them demanding that they have a right to be compensated for something that never happened and in doing so demanding that they have a right to profit from the error. And it irritates me further that others are holding them up as if they were defending the rights of consumers everywhere.

<---leaves the room

Please come back to the room and answer the following:

1. Why a mistake? Why not a miscommunication between personnel? or a disgruntled employee?

2. Exploiting laws? Shouting the odds about their 'rights' and 'entitlements' because they didn't end up getting their freebie????
Please explain what law or laws are being exploited? Please explain how €350 is a freebie?

3. Selling business class fares for a €5 would not rate as the craziest marketing campaign in history. I maintain that in the current climate, it is far from unbelievable and you have yet to convince me otherwise.

4. How do any of the customers who legitmately booked AND paid for these fares profit from it? They are out of pocket to the value of the fare so no 'profit' has been made?

Perhaps you might be better off outside :rolleyes:

vorbis

avantarklu. show me ONE yes jsut one airline that has ever sold a transatlantic business seat for 5 euro?

To say it is "far from unbelievable" is complete rubbish. Those seats go for well over a thousand euro each. The customers who booked the seats should have guessed it was a misprice. Saying that they're now "entitled" to that fare is the selfishness coming out.

avantarklu

vorbis wrote: »

avantarklu. show me ONE yes jsut one airline that has ever sold a transatlantic business seat for 5 euro?

To say it is "far from unbelievable" is complete rubbish. Those seats go for well over a thousand euro each. The customers who booked the seats should have guessed it was a misprice. Saying that they're now "entitled" to that fare is the selfishness coming out.

I never claimed an airline had done it before but there have been equally crazy marketing campaigns before. How does Ryanair manage to give away 100,000 seats at a fiver today? As for "the customer should have guessed it was a misprice", go sit in the corner with Enda - his ascertion to this has already been shown to be nothing more than bully boy tactics.

Anyway, the fact remains AL got it wrong. They tried to bluff and bully their way out of this mess and have lost massively. If you wish to debate me further on the subject, I'll be in Boston for 2 weeks in July - in between 2 business class flights. Sweet!

Rafloution

You wont be going business friend, they are only offering economy

From RTE.ie

Aer Lingus to honour €5 bookings to US
Friday, 18 April 2008 15:36
Aer Lingus is to offer economy class seats to all customers who booked €5 flights to the US.

avantarklu

Rafloution wrote: »

You wont be going business friend, they are only offering economy

From RTE.ie

Aer Lingus to honour €5 bookings to US
Friday, 18 April 2008 15:36
Aer Lingus is to offer economy class seats to all customers who booked €5 flights to the US.

They are in absolutely no position to dictate the terms of any compromise. They have come out and admitted that they are wrong and 'could have handle it better. I have no problem seeking specific performance of our contract.

slave1

there's a REASONABLE point that folk COULD have been looking at the usual seats and MAY have thought €5 was genuine - putting aside folk did not realise they were business class.
I'm away to Tenerife tomorrow for €0.02 return flights and there is a major body of folk who say that's impossible or unbelievable when neither is the case, just a quick eye on a limited offer
What's a flight to NY, 7 hrs? Tenerife 5 hrs? What factor is €5/€0.02??????

Congrats to all those who got the €5 flights, sour grapes for the rest

vorbis

slave1, these were BUSINESS class seats. BUSINESS class seats. No airline in the world offers these at $0.01, $1, $10, etc. Thats why it was abundantly obvious it was a misprice.

slave1

these were BUSINESS class seats. BUSINESS class seats

I never referenced the business class side of things, my post was assuming folk did not realise they were business class, I work for a company with a lot of business travel so I'd be well up to speed, other's don't

putting aside folk did not realise they were business class.

okidoki987

I am amazed at the lady on the radio today who said she was going to sure AL for the "business class flights" she had booked.
For starters when people were booking the flights they were booking economy flights, not business class flights.
Therefore how can somebody claim they were originally booking business class flights when they weren't advertised on the booking screen?
The first anybody knew of the business part was when there was an email stating "business class" on it but if you weren't booking business you can't expect business class.
FF to the people who got the flights and AL to finally seeing sense.
I would however love if AL withdraws the offer of the economy flights to
the greedy people who are threatening to sue them.
You got your flights but don't push it, there's only so much you can get away with.


Just announced some STAFF got the cheap flights!

Leon11

avantarklu wrote: »

They are in absolutely no position to dictate the terms of any compromise. They have come out and admitted that they are wrong and 'could have handle it better. I have no problem seeking specific performance of our contract.

You are the type of person with a disgraceful and disgusting attitude that others have mentioned in this thread. Get real will you, you'll be going to Boston but I'll bet it ain't gonna be business class.

Just be happy and content with your cheap economy flights. Karma comes around you know...you wouldn't want it biting your ass while in the sky.

Dodge

avantarklu wrote: »

They are in absolutely no position to dictate the terms of any compromise. They have come out and admitted that they are wrong and 'could have handle it better. I have no problem seeking specific performance of our contract.

What you gonna do sue them for failure to provide services under said contract? :rolleyes:

slave1

You are the type of person with a disgraceful and disgusting attitude

Karma comes around you know...you wouldn't want it biting your ass while in the sky

Surely a guy is allowed his opinion and allowed to express it without that type of response, we're not talking life/death here, to disagree is fair and to debate the subject is grand but that response is a little OTT and will withdraw folk from discussions.
This is just my opinion

Ruu_Old

Aer Lingus policy is not up for debate here, try Consumer Issues or the thread in After Hours.