Teachers and their pay raises

briantwin

Just wondering if anyone else think its a bit sh*tty the way teachers ever now and again just decide to strike because they want more money?
I mean you start on 32k a year before you even take into account overtime and supervisional stuff and exam marking etc etc.

OK i'll be the first to say that trying to teach a bunch pubescent arsebags is not the easiest way to earn money but by jesus its not the hardest. It just annoys me to think that the country and its young pupils are held to ransom every time teachers go on strike to demand more money.

How does everyone else feel about this?

Toto Wolfcastle

briantwin wrote: »

Just wondering if anyone else think its a bit sh*tty the way teachers ever now and again just decide to strike because they want more money?
I mean you start on 32k a year before you even take into account overtime and supervisional stuff and exam marking etc etc.

OK i'll be the first to say that trying to teach a bunch pubescent arsebags is not the easiest way to earn money but by jesus its not the hardest. It just annoys me to think that the country and its young pupils are held to ransom every time teachers go on strike to demand more money.

How does everyone else feel about this?

Student teacher here and they can give me more money if they want but there's no way I'll be freezing my ass off walking in circles outside school.

Although kids love when the teachers go on strike, they get a few days off!

shane86

janeybabe wrote: »

Although kids love when the teachers go on strike, they get a few days off!

Anyone remember the strikes about 7 years ago? We and many other schools had an "anti strike" strike, basically a refusal to go back to class in, eh, protest at, heh, heh heh, hahaha, the damage they were doing to our education.

Actually, think less dignified protest, more violent lawless insurrection, it was a fookin riot! Great times.


That winter was fcuking freezing too, so the lie ins we had twice a week at one stage were welcome.

Do they still have those breaktime supervisors (or scabs as the teachers called them ) in schoolyards? I cant remember if they were ever got rid of tbh, think they were. They were alot like Gardai, in that if they saw a fight break out they wouldnt bother their hole intervening, place went to hell the first few days. Still, the teachers would never say one word to the scabs, despised them.


Anyway, teachers are paid filthy money for the work they do.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

briantwin wrote: »

Just wondering if anyone else think its a bit sh*tty the way teachers ever now and again just decide to strike because they want more money?
I mean you start on 32k a year before you even take into account overtime and supervisional stuff and exam marking etc etc.

OK i'll be the first to say that trying to teach a bunch pubescent arsebags is not the easiest way to earn money but by jesus its not the hardest. It just annoys me to think that the country and its young pupils are held to ransom every time teachers go on strike to demand more money.

How does everyone else feel about this?

Bollocks. This is Ireland. We don't care about the stinking fvcking little children, all we care about is money. Hot stinking badass money.

St Bill

All I can say is it's good to see the government backed media reporting what they're told to report. Keep up the great work lads

Toto Wolfcastle

shane86 wrote: »

Anyone remember the strikes about 7 years ago? We and many other schools had an "anti strike" strike, basically a refusal to go back to class in, eh, protest at, heh, heh heh, hahaha, the damage they were doing to our education.

Actually, think less dignified protest, more violent lawless insurrection, it was a fookin riot! Great times.


That winter was fcuking freezing too, so the lie ins we had twice a week at one stage were welcome.

Do they still have those breaktime supervisors (or scabs as the teachers called them ) in schoolyards? I cant remember if they were ever got rid of tbh, think they were. They were alot like Gardai, in that if they saw a fight break out they wouldnt bother their hole intervening, place went to hell the first few days. Still, the teachers would never say one word to the scabs, despised them.


Anyway, teachers are paid filthy money for the work they do.

I think I was in TY when that happened and we were all so annoyed that we weren't in a year with homework! Feel like we missed out. We tried the whole not going into our classrooms after break thing as well but it didn't really work.

As I said before, give me as much money as you want, but I wont be freezing my ass off for it. I remember mocking the freezing teachers last time, don't want that to be me.

rubadub

briantwin wrote: »

I mean you start on 32k a year

Does anybody know how much this is per hour? Just so I can compare it so a "normal", 9-5 job with 4 weeks holidays, and 45min lunch break in total.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

rubadub wrote: »

Does anybody know how much this is per hour? Just so I can compare it so a "normal", 9-5 job with 4 weeks holidays, and 45min lunch break in total.

Don;t forget to take into account corrections, class preperations, extra hours at exam time... unless you're thick enough to believe teachers log off at 3 and that's it...

briantwin

rubadub wrote: »

Does anybody know how much this is per hour? Just so I can compare it so a "normal", 9-5 job with 4 weeks holidays, and 45min lunch break in total.

Well if you work it out as starting in class 9.30 - 4.30 with an hour for lunch and breaks etc. thats 7 hours a day. Thats 35 hours a week multiplied by 40 (weeks) because they generally get a 2 months off in the summer and then mid terms and stuff. Turns out to be 23 euro an hour roughly. But as i said thats without taking into account supervision which they get paid 50 euro an hour for etc.

Could a teacher illuminate us on this topic as my figures are merely an estimation at best. Other work may come into, well class preparation etc. I know some teachers who have been pretty much doing the same classes and syllabus for the last 5 years all the preparation and stuff is pretty much done.

Overheal

i was in 1st year at the time. great laugh.

theyre loaded and they know it. just look at their cars.

SoupyNorman

Teachers
Garda
Nurses

Public Sector will always have the power to hold the country to ransom, I neither support
or frown upon action being taken by Public sector folk.
To me you will nearly always work with a cap on what you can earn. I personally dont want to ever have someone say this is all you are likely to earn for the rest of you life.
Even if I never made more, at least Ive always had the opportunity working in the Private sector.

So let them eat cake...

chopperbyrne

In fairness, very few secondary school teachers are permanent, so those nice long holidays are unpaid.

themadchef

Overheal wrote: »

theyre loaded and they know it. just look at their cars.

As the country saying goes "More power to their pric*s!"

No way in hell i could do thier job. Not for any money.

leninbenjamin

good teachers earn every cent. unfortunately there's more than a few bad teachers out there who take the piss basically. everyone knows the bad teachers, and it's not necessarily linked to the grades at the end of the day either (thank you very much grinds culture). there needs to be some form of performance based pay, and although deciding on a fair way of doing this is difficult, I'm sure it can be done. until the unions support implementing performance based pay though, i'll never ever support them on strike.

super_furry

Seriously, I don't know what reports you people are reading, but this proposed strike isn't about a pay rise, it's about class size and the government's failure to honour it's many, many promises.

Still, you know, if the government say it's all those greedy teachers, then you better believe them. They never lie.

togster

I also think teachers should be graded on performance (don't know should LC results be an indicator though). However i know alot of teachers who do lots more outside of the 9-4 everyday. Someone worked out that they get 23 euro an hour. And? I think they deserve it and more to put up with some of the pr!cks they teach. I know some tradesmen who never went to college who were on 30 euro an hour during the boom so just because teachers are public sector employees does it warrent they get paid less than some tradesman or anyone else for that matter?

togster

briantwin wrote: »

Just wondering if anyone else think its a bit sh*tty the way teachers ever now and again just decide to strike because they want more money?
I mean you start on 32k a year before you even take into account overtime and supervisional stuff and exam marking etc etc.

OK i'll be the first to say that trying to teach a bunch pubescent arsebags is not the easiest way to earn money but by jesus its not the hardest. It just annoys me to think that the country and its young pupils are held to ransom every time teachers go on strike to demand more money.

How does everyone else feel about this?

Have you a link for this pay rise or the main issues involves in this strike?

Schism

Thinking back on how I was in school I'd say they deserve a bit of a raise for the hardship they get from kids.

I went to a nice quiet school too, I'd say there was and is a lot worse about the country.

Mossy Monk

Overheal wrote: »

theyre loaded and they know it. just look at their cars.

If this is an indicator then the teachers in my school were earning **** money

stepbar

When was the last time you heard about a teacher being sacked for being crap?

Toto Wolfcastle

briantwin wrote: »

Well if you work it out as starting in class 9.30 - 4.30 with an hour for lunch and breaks etc. thats 7 hours a day. Thats 35 hours a week multiplied by 40 (weeks) because they generally get a 2 months off in the summer and then mid terms and stuff. Turns out to be 23 euro an hour roughly. But as i said thats without taking into account supervision which they get paid 50 euro an hour for etc.

Could a teacher illuminate us on this topic as my figures are merely an estimation at best. Other work may come into, well class preparation etc. I know some teachers who have been pretty much doing the same classes and syllabus for the last 5 years all the preparation and stuff is pretty much done.

Are you sure the supervision pay is 50 euro/hour? Is it not 38? (Still good!)

Toto Wolfcastle

stepbar wrote: »

When was the last time you heard about a teacher being sacked for being crap?

This is a huge problem. I know of a few teachers in my school who are pretty awful at the job but have been there for so long that it's like they're stuck and cant be removed. I've observed classes where the teacher screams at students for doing something wrong when the teacher has not explained it properly.

There needs to be a proper system for weeding out the bad ones.

gcgirl

I think the teachers are intitled to more money!! I have a 7 year old and they the teachers have 25 of them to keep entertained in class ! My little horror has been off for nearly 2 weeks now and i'd say there would be quite a lot of mums and dads out there crying out for next monday to come!!

Loomis

briantwin wrote: »

Just wondering if anyone else think its a bit sh*tty the way teachers ever now and again just decide to strike because they want more money?
I mean you start on 32k a year before you even take into account overtime and supervisional stuff and exam marking etc etc.

OK i'll be the first to say that trying to teach a bunch pubescent arsebags is not the easiest way to earn money but by jesus its not the hardest. It just annoys me to think that the country and its young pupils are held to ransom every time teachers go on strike to demand more money.

How does everyone else feel about this?

Or commuters when train drivers go on strike, or airport staff...
:rolleyes:

Rob_l

janeybabe wrote: »

There needs to be a proper system for weeding out the bad ones.

I think everyone accepts this, but how?

Student reports? Terrible Idea vindictive students would make this idea unworkable
Other teacher reports? Very similiar problems as above
Judging on student grades? So who would want to teach the students who do not progress well in standard education

some form of testing? but how do you test for a bad teacher?

As a new young teacher how do you think they could do it?

Rob_l

gcgirl wrote: »

I think the teachers are intitled to more money!!

Perhaps I agree but how to pay, young childless people would not be happy with a big increase in tax money going here rather than elsewhere so how can the state do this without problems

Toto Wolfcastle

Rob_l wrote: »

I think everyone accepts this, but how?

Student reports? Terrible Idea vindictive students would make this idea unworkable
Other teacher reports? Very similiar problems as above
Judging on student grades? So who would want to teach the students who do not progress well in standard education

some form of testing? but how do you test for a bad teacher?

As a new young teacher how do you think they could do it?

It's a hard one. Random inspection is another idea but this would be very hard to implement with lack of resources, etc, and would probably only weed out a few.

Perhaps a system where certain teachers are given the job of 'supervising' groups of other teachers in the school, sitting in on classes every once in awhile, evaluating etc. You'd have to be careful with this one though and make sure the supervisors could give an honest opinion.

Rob_l

janeybabe wrote: »

It's a hard one. Random inspection is another idea but this would be very hard to implement with lack of resources, etc, and would probably only weed out a few.

Perhaps a system where certain teachers are given the job of 'supervising' groups of other teachers in the school, sitting in on classes every once in awhile, evaluating etc. You'd have to be careful with this one though and make sure the supervisors could give an honest opinion.

I dont think random inspection can work it may be a surprise but it is still known by the teacher they are being observed so they can for that day act as they should.

Independent assessors would they get the backing of the ASTI I doubt it, they would surely see this as bad for their members.

I checked all my spelling teacher:D

Toto Wolfcastle

Rob_l wrote: »

I dont think random inspection can work it may be a surprise but it is still known by the teacher they are being observed so they can for that day act as they should.

Independent assessors would they get the backing of the ASTI I doubt it, they would surely see this as bad for their members.

I checked all my spelling teacher:D

Ya, honestly I don't know how it could be done but it needs to be done.


Now translate your last post into perfect Irish for me and you'll have gained my respect forever. *



*Forever may not last forever!

Rob_l

janeybabe wrote: »

Ya, honestly I don't know how it could be done but it needs to be done.


Now translate your last post into perfect Irish for me and you'll have gained my respect forever. *



*Forever may not last forever!

Damn you!
You knew my one weakspot

JæKæ

It must be one of the only occupations where you automatically get a raise every few years, regardless of performance

Fishyfreak

JæKæ wrote: »

It must be one of the only occupations where you automatically get a raise every few years, regardless of performance

It's called an increment!!! And it's every year.

gcgirl

Rob_l wrote: »

Perhaps I agree but how to pay, young childless people would not be happy with a big increase in tax money going here rather than elsewhere so how can the state do this without problems

Yeh and in another 10 years these ''young childless people '' will prob have off spring and then they will understand! and as for 2nd level i know a good few teachers that are only temps so they don't get paid for the holiday! And why does the Dept of Education fund fee paying schools??Personally i don't think fee paying schools should be we might save a lot of money over that!

July

briantwin wrote: »

Just wondering if anyone else think its a bit sh*tty the way teachers ever now and again just decide to strike because they want more money?
I mean you start on 32k a year before you even take into account overtime and supervisional stuff and exam marking etc etc.

OK i'll be the first to say that trying to teach a bunch pubescent arsebags is not the easiest way to earn money but by jesus its not the hardest. It just annoys me to think that the country and its young pupils are held to ransom every time teachers go on strike to demand more money.

How does everyone else feel about this?

If your post is due to the recent 'stir' amongst the teacher unions, it's not money related. The primary teachers want class sizes (second largest in Europe I think) reduced as the Government had promised and recently reneged on - it will not line their pockets by one cent more. In fact, if the strike goes ahead, it seems that the teachers will actually lose their next pay rise. It seems that they may be prepared to sacrifice this for the 'greater good'. The secondary teachers are taking issue with discipline problems. That's my reading of the situation anyway.

Fishyfreak wrote: »

It's called an increment!!! And it's every year.

Untrue. At primary level anyway.


Just to add, as someone else stated, a lot of teachers are not on permanent contracts so are NOT paid for holidays, something a lot of people don't realise.

Boggles

July wrote: »

Just to add, as someone else stated, a lot of teachers are not on permanent contracts so are NOT paid for holidays, something a lot of people don't realise.

The majority of teachers in this country are permanent. The majority of non permanent are newly qualified.

Simply put, teachers have to be paid for their holidays or no one would do it.

I don't know what it is like now, but back when i was in school 3 of my teachers should have not been let near the general population let alone educate a generation. 2 ended up in units the other died, but if he had survived I have no doubt he would have been fashioning a tight jacket aswell.

Overheal

Boggles makes a point. Teachers, and education, are the cornerstone of economy and society. It does give them a lot of power. If nobody did it we'd all have gotten screwed. Perhaps by priests.. *ahem.

AlmightyCushion

JæKæ wrote: »

It must be one of the only occupations where you automatically get a raise every few years, regardless of performance

Eh, Tesco do. I'm pretty sure most of the other retail shops and fast food joints do as well.

Rb

They only work 9 months a year, have extensive breaks in those 9 months, yet complain about the money they get (though knowing that this would be their income before getting into the profession).

How dare they.

Boggles

Overheal wrote: »

Boggles makes a point. Teachers, and education, are the cornerstone of economy and society. It does give them a lot of power. If nobody did it we'd all have gotten screwed. Perhaps by priests.. *ahem.

Oh yes fond memories of my old PE teacher Father Molestalot. Moved to the Phillipines I heard, lovely old man.

uptherebels

rb_ie wrote: »

They only work 9 months a year, have extensive breaks in those 9 months, yet complain about the money they get (though knowing that this would be their income before getting into the profession).

How dare they.

I spent 5 years in a secondary school in cork city and having seen the abuse that some teachers have to put up with and I believe that they deserve every cent they get.I have seen men and women break down and cry from the treatment they received at the hands of students and when they tried to do something about it i.e suspension then they would get attacked by the parents.All I know is I wouldnt teach in this country if they paid me a million euro a year.I have the utmost respect for the teachers that put up with the sh1t hat they do.

Kimbot

In all fairness they work for just over 100 odd days a year and start off pay is €32k a year...


Thats great!!

Xavi6

shane86 wrote: »

Anyone remember the strikes about 7 years ago? We and many other schools had an "anti strike" strike, basically a refusal to go back to class in, eh, protest at, heh, heh heh, hahaha, the damage they were doing to our education.

Actually, think less dignified protest, more violent lawless insurrection, it was a fookin riot! Great times.


That winter was fcuking freezing too, so the lie ins we had twice a week at one stage were welcome.

Lol this wouldn't have been 2002/2003 would it? I remember a massive uproar cause it was during my Leaving Cert year and all the nerds were freaking out cause they couldn't learn. I was too busy being toasty in my bed to care!

Anyway, I'd love to be a teacher at second level, however not for the cash they get at the moment. It's definitely not in proportion to the level of shit they have to contend with.

finlma

How many times does it have to be stated that the proposed strikes are NOT ABOUT MONEY.

The reason for the strikes is that the government promised smaller classes before the election to get more votes. Now that they're in position they've gone back on their word and said that it's not going to happen. Lithuania, Latvia and the Ukraine have smaller teacher/pupil ratios than Ireland and we're supposed to be one of the richest countries in the world. It's a complete joke.

For some reason people seem to think it's about money - RTE and their government bias again.

togster

My dad quit because of the stress and no he is not a pussy. The abuse from some cnuts was crazy. He makes alot more money now building but went into teaching because he loved the idea of it. I do think crap teachers should be sacked though.

ditpoker

...education is the silver bullet. Education is everything. We don't need little changes. We need gigantic, monumental changes. Schools should be palaces. The competition for the best teachers should be fierce. They should be making six figure salaries. Schools should be incredibly expensive for government and absolutely free of charge to its citizens, just like national defense. That's my position. I just haven't figured out how to do it yet.

briantwin

The reason why i posted originally was because a friend of mine is a teacher. She was saying how nice it would be for a bit more time off due to more strikes. I know the strike isn't about money but her argument was that because the issues are about class sizes and discipline etc the government may just give in and offer them more to just get on with it. I know the proposed strikes aren't about money i will stress it again.

As for a way to determine the good from the bad teacher wise, why not install cameras in all the classes. Its a deterent to little ars*holes who are going to act up. Also it will mean that the teachers will have to behave appropriately and do their jobs too.

I know people will say teachers will have a serious problem with this but i mean its a way of counteracting the issue of abusive pupils aswell. With hard evidence like that suspension and other forms of disciplinary action will be easier to put through.

Creachadóir

Boggles wrote: »

I don't know what it is like now, but back when i was in school 3 of my teachers should have not been let near the general population let alone educate a generation. 2 ended up in units the other died, but if he had survived I have no doubt he would have been fashioning a tight jacket aswell.

Teaching is very stressful. Mental breakdowns are often brought on by stress. A number of teachers are perfectionists by nature, and were high achievers and well behaved in school. Striving to motivate all children/teenagers up to a level acceptable to themselves and the general population is sometimes easier said than done.

I have already posted in the primary section about this topic (before the trade union conferences this week)
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055251303

The reason that Primary Teachers are proposing a strike is because there are too many children in their classes. This means that every child is neglected to a certain extent, because they cannot get the individual attention they need/deserve.

Incidently, I am on holidays from school now, and I am on the computer because I'm doing notes for work. Like many of you I get distracted when I'm on the computer working...it's not a luxury that I have when I'm in front of the class with no break all day (because I've been supervising at lunch time).

Check out the information on the INTO website for information about the matters discussed at congress. http://www.into.ie/ROI/

I'm not sure if I can put this address up here, but this is what primary teachers are saying on the teachers forum...
http://www.educationposts.ie/forum/viewtopic.php?id=12441
(There are trolls in that forum like every other forum )

Andy-Pandy

The only teacher i know to get fired did so for sleeping with a sixth year student, dirty mink she was, but that lad is now a legend.

briantwin

I do understand the stress that some teachers are under. And also about the fact that primary teachers have too many pupils but when i was in primary school there was never a year that there weren't at least 35 pupils in my class. I was educated from '89 onwards. How many do teachers believe is too many?

Boggles

Creachadóir wrote: »

Teaching is very stressful. Mental breakdowns are often brought on by stress.

Nah my Uncle was in school with 2 of them, he said they crazy back then.

Yeah I hear that arguement all the time that teaching is a stressful job. I don't fully agree with it to the extent that it is spouted. I think teachers are compensated enough with their free time and short days to cope with any on the job stress. Plus the fact that it is not performance related and you would have to sleep with or murder a student to get fired.

From my experience it was always the poorer teachers who were stressed brought on by the fact that they couldn't do their jobs properly.

Creachadóir wrote: »

A number of teachers are perfectionists by nature, and were high achievers and well behaved in school.

Sorry but what utter twaddle!

John Mason

i heard a Minister on the radio talking about this. He said that the collective name for a group of teachers is a "whine" - i thought this was very humourous