Cyclone kills...

t-ha

Hanley wrote: »

Is any one else so sick and tired of this that they don't even bother trying to express their feelings on all of this...?

Yes, but at the same time if you let all this continue unanswered it just snow-balls. I'm firmly of the opinion that school-boys wouldn't go half as mad for any of these supplements if popular media didn't make them out to be teh ultimat3 performance enhancers, only made legal by some kind of dodgy loop-hole.

JayRoc, fair play for the letter you wrote last time the Irish Times pulled this, but the fact is that more people will read head-lines than retractions. Just the way it is.

Jimmy Bottlehead

Hanley wrote: »

Articles like that genuinely annoy me to the point of true anger. The ingnorance and stuidpity of the people who buy into this is outstanding.

I'd have to disagree. I'm a journalist myself, and if I had read that in the paper myself, even I would be worried, and I have a little knowledge of supplementation. The public barely know the difference between carbs and protein, never mind vits and other chemicals. Its not the public at fault for 'buying into' this, its the journalists sensationalising isssues such as this for sheer shock value and sales.

WHIP IT!

Jimmy Bottlehead wrote: »

I'd have to disagree. I'm a journalist myself, and if I had read that in the paper myself, even I would be worried, and I have a little knowledge of supplementation. The public barely know the difference between carbs and protein, never mind vits and other chemicals. Its not the public at fault for 'buying into' this, its the journalists sensationalising isssues such as this for sheer shock value and sales.

I agree, I'm in the industry (media) myself and, personally, I think the journo in question should be embarrassed with their work... since when are 20-year-old young lads taken as an authority on anything??

How do we know the young fella in question had "heart palpatations", cos one of his mates suggested that's what it might be, maybe? For all we know, maybe he was just b*lloxed after a session and rather than accepting that he's not as fit as he thinks he is, he decides to put it down to the "demon powder"!!!

It was pathetic journalism.. I've no reason to get hot and bothered about people attacking the use of supplements, I use some myself but it wouldn't kill me if they weren't available all of a sudden - but crap, lazy, sensationalist journalism like this does nobody any favours...

Hanley

Jimmy Bottlehead wrote: »

I'd have to disagree. I'm a journalist myself, and if I had read that in the paper myself, even I would be worried, and I have a little knowledge of supplementation. The public barely know the difference between carbs and protein, never mind vits and other chemicals. Its not the public at fault for 'buying into' this, its the journalists sensationalising isssues such as this for sheer shock value and sales.

My point is that it just keeps happening again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, ad infinitum.

I could quite easily go on a rant about Cyclone contains NO steroids and how by saying it does, all the media is doing is increasing it's sales. For a start that's incredibly irresponsible. Never mind the fact that everything they're saying about it is an outright lie.

Or I could go on about how making vitamins "medicine" is just confering more control to the pharmacy's which already have the HSE so far under their thumb it doesn't bear thinking about.

Equally I could rant about how taking a 20 year old schools rugby player opinions as some how "informed" is only a step away from complete and utter idiocy. These guys have unreal dedication levels of course, and trian 5/6 sometimes more per week with lots and lots of full contact and intense drilling. But it's the cyclone that's causing their body damage of coure.

I could state that since somebody took Cyclone and had heart palpitations it must be the cause. Just like how the headache I have at the moment was caused by the M&M's I ate yesterday, ya know because it HAS to have been that.

But I see no point. All of this has been said over and over and over again on this forum in the past year. And every time it's backed up by loads of support from this forum. But the general public and "educated" media has their heads so far jammed up their fcuking ar$e's there's no point. Maybe we should feed Cyclone to the journalists and hope it does all the things they say it does. Maybe then we'll stop hearing from this corrosive influence who's only goal is to push more paper sales thru scaremongering and nothing else.

So c'mon everybody, one last time *RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE!!*

brianthebard

What's this stuff about high levels of B vitamins as well? Are they just looking for anything in the supplements that is of a high level? Next they'll be talking about how protein supplements have a high level of protein in them. *shock*

rubadub

Jimmy Bottlehead wrote: »

I'm a journalist myself, and if I had read that in the paper myself, even I would be worried.

I thought as a journalist you would not be too worried.

Jimmy Bottlehead wrote: »

the journalists sensationalising isssues such as this for sheer shock value and sales.

Because of this extremely well known reason.

Whenever I would read something like that I would go check it up if I had a concern, most journalists articles I read havent a clue about medicine/drugs. I love reading articles on recreational drugs, some are hilariously ignorant.

Jimmy Bottlehead

rubadub wrote: »

I thought as a journalist you would not be too worried.

Well my immediate reaction would (I think naturally) be to worry about this - if Cyclone is deemed lethal, then what about the products I use? However, this is only the initial reaction... I would of course read into it, research it, and get proper informed opinions.
Fact is, 95% of people will worry upon hearing (for example) beef has been infected and has been consumed unknowingly. Same with supplements. There' always a small minority that are comfortable enough in their knowledge of the threat (real or exaggerated), but by and large, most people will assume the worst.

Just to make clear, I am in NO WAY WHATSOEVER saying that anything in this article is true, or should be considered seriously. What I am saying is that the general public cannot be blamed in any way whatsoever. Cock-ups like these rest solely on the shoulders of the media.

Luke Dublin

Just been in contact with IMB,

They have classed thermobol and cyclone as medicines. that's why they will be takeing them off the market

Some of what the IMB have classed as medicines are not on their imb prohibited list because their list is not big enough to include all medicines that should be only on sale by prescription.

.

Anyone selling cyclone at half price?????

g'em

If there are such establishements I really don't think that they'll be going around advertising a banned substance on a public board. And if they do, such posts will have to be deleted.

Dragan

Luke Dublin wrote: »

Anyone selling cyclone at half price?????

It's called XXX and you can pick it up anywhere that stocks Nutrition X

davyjose

Hanley wrote: »

Is any one else so sick and tired of this that they don't even bother trying to express their feelings on all of this...?

Yes

rubadub

Jimmy Bottlehead wrote: »

Well my immediate reaction would (I think naturally) be to worry about this - if Cyclone is deemed lethal, then what about the products I use? However, this is only the initial reaction... I would of course read into it, research it, and get proper informed opinions.

The quote about it being lethal/fatal was

Dr Joan Gilvarry, director of the IMB, the state organisation responsible for evaluating the quality, safety and efficacy of medicines in Ireland has stated: "Beta-ecdysterone is an anabolic steroid and it carries all the risks associated with that. It can damage you liver and your heart, increases your blood count and can cause blood clots in your legs and in your lungs which could be fatal."

I ingest a hell of a lot of substances that papers and "medical professionals" would say "could be fatal", that is why that statement would not worry me much. If he had said the recommended dosage of cyclone was in fact the LD50 (lethal dosage to 50% of people who take it), then I would worry. The LD50 for alcohol for a man my weight is around 15pints, this sunday I will probably have more than that, and hopefully live to tell the tale. If I downed it as vodka in one go it might kill me though.

Dragan

The low down

http://www.nutritionalreviews.org/betaecdysterone.htm

It's not like she was completely wrong, she just used the facts to her own ends is all.

rubadub

Dragan wrote: »

The low down

http://www.nutritionalreviews.org/betaecdysterone.htm

It's not like she was completely wrong, she just used the facts to her own ends is all.

From that site

How to take Beta Ecdysterone?
Although, at this point in time, it is not clear as to how effective ecdysterone is as an anabolic agent, the dose used by many nutritional companies is significantly lower than that recommended by researchers. Many companies use doses as low as 50-90mg. However, researchers recommend that ecdysterone is taken at a dose of 5mg per kg of bodyweight (Bizec et al., 2002). Therefore, an athlete weighing 70kg would need around 350mg of ecdysterone, and a 100kg athlete would need around 500mg of ecdysterone – significantly more than what is provided in most nutritional formulas!

Cyclone has 80mg per day.

http://www.maximuscle.com/cyclone

Dragan

rubadub wrote: »

Cyclone has 80mg per day.

Yeah i know. About a year ago i remember posting in a thread about Cyclone pretty much slating it as being over priced bull****.

The price of that compound in a pure, raw from is rough about 30,000 dollars per KILO for **** sake.

It simply is not a price viable effective supplement.

Jimmy Bottlehead

Dragan wrote: »

It simply is not a price viable effective supplement.

Well its not a legally viable supplement now either, so I guess the likes of Nutrition X will (rightly) benifit from its banning. Still unfair though, seeing as alcohol and cigarettes are both more dangerous and yet freely on sale. Its complete and utter BS.

Dragan

Jimmy Bottlehead wrote: »

Well its not a legally viable supplement now either, so I guess the likes of Nutrition X will (rightly) benifit from its banning. Still unfair though, seeing as alcohol and cigarettes are both more dangerous and yet freely on sale. Its complete and utter BS.

To be honest, i have to confess that a smile crept across my face when i heard the news. I have seen Maximuscle pedal bull**** product into an unregulated market for too long now.

I hate the way supplement companies use things like the aforementioned substance to up the price and seeming effectiveness of a supplement but neglect to tell you they are not even giving you close to a dose that will be effective but are still charging you full price.

Bring all those corrupt bastards down i say.

rubadub

Dragan wrote: »

I hate the way supplement companies use things like the aforementioned substance to up the price and seeming effectiveness of a supplement but neglect to tell you they are not even giving you close to a dose that will be effective but are still charging you full price.

Always gonna be snakes in marketing, just like low quoted portion sizes on food so it appears low in calories.

Some supps in Holland & Barrett seem good value until you read what is in them, like the creatine is really a mixture with low levels of creatine in it, some might not catch this and just look at the price per kilo. Similar to how many low calorie meals are just watered down, yet cost even more than normal versions.

Hornd

To be honest, i have to confess that a smile crept across my face when i heard the news. I have seen Maximuscle pedal bull**** product into an unregulated market for too long now.

I hate the way supplement companies use things like the aforementioned substance to up the price and seeming effectiveness of a supplement but neglect to tell you they are not even giving you close to a dose that will be effective but are still charging you full price.

Bring all those corrupt bastards down i say.

A poor statement their dragon. While i will admit maximuscle are poor products mainly on account of price, it is a clear step in the wrong direction for sports supplements. In every product we buy there are expensive and cheaper brands - from the likes of beer, washing up liquid, cereal - everything. If someone wants to pay extra its is there right as a paying consumer.

Now absolutely no evidence ive seen indicates that Beta-ecdysterone is actually an anabolic steroid. Even in the this review http://www.nutritionalreviews.org/betaecdysterone.htm it clearly states it is "steroid like compound" but not an anabolic steroid.

The IMB went on a massive raid a couple of months ago and Beta-ecdysterone was never called into question. Now immediately once a report comes out they denounce it as if they never knew that it was on the shelf and say that it is an anabolic with major side effects. Absolutely none of this evidence is backed up with any type of medical or scientific reviews or studies that i know of.

This is exactly what happened in 2 months ago with B-12 the most common of common vitamins. It was called into question by the media and was immediately banned in products over the RDA. I must also point out that this rule is only being applied to a severe state in sport supplement shops. I went into a health shop and picked up 4 products above the allowed amount in vitamin B-12. There seems to be a clear targeting of the supplement industry and it is only a matter of time before a worried parent calls in or a review is done on protein which concludes that protein is the cause of some unknown disease or aliment.

Dragan

Hornd wrote: »

A poor statement their dragon.

Not really, it's an opinion. One from a unhappy ex customer of Maximuscle at that.

And it's Dragan.

Froot

It's true.

I took Cyclone and I died.

PS: I have never been impressed with maximuscle. I used to think you were paying extra for quality, I found the opposite to be true, I was taking their Amino's, CLA and ZMA and I found that all three were using lower dosages than the products I switched to. I also don't think that one brand can provide all you need. Different products are better from different companies. Also perhaps Maximuscle products are overprices because Gavin Henson is using them, someone has to pay for all of Charlotte Church's pie binges

Mikel

It's not really that surprising though is it?
Nothing sells newspapers like outrage, it allows the 'think of the children' types to indulge themselves, and it allows politicians to appear concerned and do something about a problem in the eyes of 'concerned of Dublin 4'
Reminds me of the coverage of 'lethal cage fighting' which crops up every now and again

Froot

Mikel wrote: »

It's not really that surprising though is it?
Nothing sells newspapers like outrage, it allows the 'think of the children' types to indulge themselves, and it allows politicians to appear concerned and do something about a problem in the eyes of 'concerned of Dublin 4'
Reminds me of the coverage of 'lethal cage fighting' which crops up every now and again

Good point. I wonder how many of Irelands politicians have any idea what fitness is? When's the last time you saw a politician engaging in any activity requiring fitness? That's excluding Bertie and Enda slapping a sliotar around (or trying :P) for the press.