St John Ambulance

maglite

Can some one please outline the different levels of training available in SJA.

What the y cover and how they relate to the PHECC guidelines.

Also what resources do they have at their disposal, how many ambulances can they provide to a duty, kildare region, 4x4's mobile command units, and such

Thanks

!!!!!conor!!!!!

I could give you an answer from a red cross perspective if that would be any help?

Elessar

www.sja.ie will help you out, I'm sure you can contact them and ask directly.

I don't know if you are looking to join a vol or are looking to get medical cover?

Also check out The Order of Malta www.orderofmalta.ie

Or www.redcross.ie

Or Civil Defence www.civildefence.ie

dory

Elessar wrote: »

www.sja.ie will help you out, I'm sure you can contact them and ask directly.

I don't know if you are looking to join a vol or are looking to get medical cover?

Also check out The Order of Malta www.orderofmalta.ie

Or www.redcross.ie

Or Civil Defence www.civildefence.ie

I've always wondered what the difference between all the above are. Anyone know?

The Real B-man

dory wrote: »

I've always wondered what the difference between all the above are. Anyone know?

There Different Voluntary Organisations that pretty much do the same thing.

sgt.bilko

maglite, feel free to PM if you need any answers.

I'm heavily involved in SJAB and happy to answer any questions.

D.

moose112

The Real B-man wrote: »

There Different Voluntary Organisations that pretty much do the same thing.

sjb branched awwy from omac for religious reasons and bought are 100% funded by donations. whereas the cd and red cross are funded by government also the cd are much more into rescue e.g. mountain and river while the others do more ambulance first aid and community work.
omac is currently the largest voluntary body in Ireland.

TheDriver

moose112 wrote: »

sjb branched awwy from omac for religious reasons and bought are 100% funded by donations. whereas the cd and red cross are funded by government also the cd are much more into rescue e.g. mountain and river while the others do more ambulance first aid and community work.
omac is currently the largest voluntary body in Ireland.

Hold on there now Moose, Red Cross is NOT funded by the Govt except for grants to assist in purchasing ambulances which the SJA and OMAC also get. CD is funded by the Govt. In fact, OMAC has a much much bigger paid staff whereas RC is nearly entirely voluntary run except for handful of staff.
RC is by far the largest voluntary body in Ireland, just look around and see how many units of RC are around compared to OMAC and I am not getting into any reasons or anything here, just that the spread of RC is far more than OMAC.

TO Answer the poster regarding which one you would join, it mostly depends on where you live as its rare you get both very active in the same area.

moose112

Firstly check out the jobs advertised on the irish red cross website more jobs advertised on that than the whole full time staff in omac.
When the goverment wanted to see how many people were volunteering in Ireland they wrote to all voluntery groups looking for membership numbers and found omac was the biggest.
The government also donates money to rc foregin work(have no problem with this what so ever) but omac international recieves €0.

TheDriver

I'm sure theres more jobs advertised but look at actual numbers employed, ads for jobs doesn't equal no of people employed, just turnover.
I never trust these numbers volunteering to be honest as theres loads on every organisation that join every year and rarely turn up etc, its the work done on the ground. Theres branches of both organisations who i am sure have lots of people on thebooks yet same people out every weekend helping.
Lastly, nothing against OMAC but RC is most recognised humanitarian organisation worldwide and i can understand why money is channelled through this but i wouldn't consider that as funding, thats merely the govts foreign aid buidget going through a crowd that can apply it, we don't see any of it here on the ground.
Fair play to you for being involved in OMAC.

Elessar

Lads let's not make this a petty mine is bigger than yours argument.

Just to dispel some myths here: OMAC receives no government funding, and only has a handful of paid staff who do administration work. There are no paid medical staff. Currently it has (Well) over 135 emergency ambulances, minibuses and 4x4s and something like 80 units.

All first aid organisations are great to have, and we all need to get along

TheDriver

By all means, i don't want any argument and not be petty at all but the fact that you have come in with myths to be dispelled when in fact, the thread claims that the RC is different when in reality its the exact same as OMAC as is the SJA, no government funding except the odd grant, not much paid staff and lots of volunteers. Its wrong to start differentiating between organisations when in fact, we are all the same except for locations.

moose112

Can see your points alright. Suppose we all think our own little group is the best:D

TheDriver

Of course, particularly if the nearest OMAC/SJA/RC is maybe 50 miles away and we all of course think we are the poor cousin compared to the rest but we must all fundraise the same and have the same costings. Its a pity in some ways that there are 3 different organisations doing the same thing for no reason, much easier if there was one, even for teaching resources etc

Kwekubo

moose112 wrote: »

sjb branched awwy from omac for religious reasons

Actually, SJAB has been in existence in Ireland since 1903; OMAC was not set up until 1938. More importantly, despite its links to the Order of St John (which is a Protestant order), the Brigade is most definitely a non-sectarian organisation and has made a point of being so for decades.

TheDriver

Kwekubo wrote: »

Actually, SJAB has been in existence in Ireland since 1903; OMAC was not set up until 1938. More importantly, despite its links to the Order of St John (which is a Protestant order), the Brigade is most definitely a non-sectarian organisation and has made a point of being so for decades.

Does it matter in fairness? Its about what they do now, today and how they assist the community effort. Religion has nothing to do with it and origins are only history.

Kwekubo

TheDriver wrote: »

Does it matter in fairness? Its about what they do now, today and how they assist the community effort. Religion has nothing to do with it and origins are only history.

Totally. Judaean People's Front/People's Front of Judaea tbh.

The Real B-man

Lads topic is veering off course please keep to the original Topic.

maglite

maglite wrote: »

Can some one please outline the different levels of training available in SJA.

What the y cover and how they relate to the PHECC guidelines.

Also what resources do they have at their disposal, how many ambulances can they provide to a duty, kildare region, 4x4's mobile command units, and such

Thanks

So they are not sectarian...

WHAT LEVELS OF FIRST AID DO THEY PROVIDE???

I know about RC, i'm involved.
I have friends in OMAC

I dont care about the latter 2

The fact that the may or may/not have paid staff is irrelevant.

Are they all OFA's???,

Thanks to the offers of Pm's they will be taken up

TheDriver

Well Red Cross offers:
Practical First Aid
Occupational First Aid
Cardiac First Responder
Emergency First Responder and soon EMT.

maglite

TheDriver wrote: »

Well Red Cross offers:
Practical First Aid
Occupational First Aid
Cardiac First Responder
Emergency First Responder and soon EMT.

They don't its EMFR, and the red cross is NOT the SJA

TheDriver

Emfr is being phased out and EFR being phased in

maglite

EMFR is still the course and will be fro at least the rest of the year.

Now, SJA, ideas about staying on topic

sgt.bilko

I'm SJAB and i'd love to receive a grant from the Govt to replace our Ambo which has gone to the mechanic in the sky!! Thanks to HQ who lend one out when we need it !

Our level of training varies from Division to Division. My own has members whose qualifactions vary from Basic First Aid, Cardiac First Responder,OFA, EMFR, trainee EMT, RGN.

If you're blessed with having Paramedic or above and he/she is willing to share their training, well that's a bonus and something to be embraced.

with regards to PHECC on EMT crews, time will tell if it's going to affect but personally i think its going to have a disasterous affect on the various organisations throughout the country whose Ambos turn out week out , week in.

The Real B-man

Basically the way things are going most organisations are following PHECC Guidelines OMAC are as i just did a PHECC CFR course which i have to say is taking a step back as i am already a First Responder & Aed operator with OMAC Guidelines, but i think its great that the qualification and training will be the same in every Organisation when they adopt the PHECC Guidelines.

sgt.bilko

True B-man , but how is IRC, OMAC & SJAB going to provide an EMT for every ambulance that turns out every week ??

In my own mind, probably cynically, it's just a way of HSE Ambulance forcing in on duties and charging a lot more than us voluntaries. God knows that's probably why they took over pitch duties @ Croke Park, Lansdowne, Dalymount etc, etc. €€€€€€€ for HSE.

Does this mean that HSE Ambulance service will be seen travelling alongside @ Leopardstown, Punchestown, Curragh, Fairyhouse etc

Elessar

sgt.bilko wrote: »

True B-man , but how is IRC, OMAC & SJAB going to provide an EMT for every ambulance that turns out every week ??

In my own mind, probably cynically, it's just a way of HSE Ambulance forcing in on duties and charging a lot more than us voluntaries. God knows that's probably why they took over pitch duties @ Croke Park, Lansdowne, Dalymount etc, etc. €€€€€€€ for HSE.

Does this mean that HSE Ambulance service will be seen travelling alongside @ Leopardstown, Punchestown, Curragh, Fairyhouse etc

I haven't seen any real evidence of that Bilko, lets not jump to conclusions.

Eventually all the orgs will have their own EMT training programmes so long term it's likely that EMT will be the new top level grade. It's really not all that different from the old EFR, pharmacology and ECG readings being two major differences. It's just length of time training needed that is the big hurdle.

The Real B-man

Elessar wrote: »

I haven't seen any real evidence of that Bilko, lets not jump to conclusions.

Eventually all the orgs will have their own EMT training programmes so long term it's likely that EMT will be the new top level grade. It's really not all that different from the old EFR, pharmacology and ECG readings being two major differences. It's just length of time training needed that is the big hurdle.

Yes the new EMT Course will be similiar to Current First Responder Levels with a few extras obviously 4 week work placement has been mentioned. PHECC Guidlines have taking it back to basics so if your a First Responder in either OMAC SJAB or RC i think your would be well able for the NEW EMT Course

As regards to a EMT on every ambulance i think this will be a very gradual move over time when the course becomes more mainstream.

sgt.bilko

sadly that's one of the problems with the voluntaries. As we are all voluntary, getting the time off work to tie in with EFR / EMT courses is a hurdle.

How does this affect RC & OMAC members ?

Elessar

sgt.bilko wrote: »

sadly that's one of the problems with the voluntaries. As we are all voluntary, getting the time off work to tie in with EFR / EMT courses is a hurdle.

How does this affect RC & OMAC members ?

I don't know the specifics, but I'd say the course will be run over weekends in OMAC, with placements similar. Nothing is finalised yet of course.

The Real B-man

Elessar wrote: »

I don't know the specifics, but I'd say the course will be run over weekends in OMAC, with placements similar. Nothing is finalised yet of course.

Yes exactly we will just have to wait and see.

sgt.bilko

what part of the world are you both in ?

Im sth side dub

!!!!!conor!!!!!

The Real B-man wrote: »

Yes the new EMT Course will be similiar to Current First Responder Levels with a few extras obviously 4 week work placement has been mentioned.

Real B-Man it's a one week placement unless you were talking about the driving training aswell which is 3 weeks.

I personally don't think this will affect the vols that much as long as a realistic timeframe is put in place to have the first responders brought up to EMT.

sgt.bilko

what's the driver training? Is this a Phecc guideline also??

I'm all in favour BTW, beneficial to drivers and should also reduce insurance premiums for the organisations involved.

D.

moose112

There nothing def on the amount of time to be spent with the ambulance service.
voluntary services are currently arguing that its members have a certain amount of in house clinical service done already so the amount of hours still up in the air guys.

The Real B-man

sgt.bilko wrote: »

what part of the world are you both in ?

Im sth side dub

North Wicklow

sgt.bilko

Would that be the Bré unit by any chance?

A well organised unit , i have to say with a few ERAS lads & lassies to help out if i'm not mistaken . Keep up the good work

Kwekubo

sgt.bilko wrote: »

what's the driver training? Is this a Phecc guideline also??

I'm all in favour BTW, beneficial to drivers and should also reduce insurance premiums for the organisations involved.

D.

See www.phecit.ie/Documents/Education%20&%20Training/SectionH%20Edu%20&%20Train%20Standards.pdf

Fyr.Fytr

Its not compulsory, mearly advised.

Doing the driving or not has no effect on wethere you are awared NQEMT or not

whyohwhy

hey guys which of these would u think best to join ?my son is looking into becoming a fireman/ambulance service.hes 17 and i thought doing 1st aid course would be good idea but we dont kno which one wud b the best on cv ANY SUGGESTIONS

sgt.bilko

whyohwhy wrote: »

hey guys which of these would u think best to join ?my son is looking into becoming a fireman/ambulance service.hes 17 and i thought doing 1st aid course would be good idea but we dont kno which one wud b the best on cv ANY SUGGESTIONS

Any vol org is beneficial to your son.

send me a pm and i'll find out the closest org to you, obviously SJA is the best :D:D:D:D:D

N_Raid

whyohwhy wrote: »

hey guys which of these would u think best to join ?my son is looking into becoming a fireman/ambulance service.hes 17 and i thought doing 1st aid course would be good idea but we dont kno which one wud b the best on cv ANY SUGGESTIONS

As was said, any voluntary service and first aid qualification will look good on his CV. People could argue for ages about the merits of joining one org over the other. I'm a St. John member but basically the only reason was one of my mates was a member of the local division at the time (11 years ago. God I feel old. lol). So see if he can find out all the St. John/Omac/Red Cross divisions or units in the area, and maybe try to organise a visit and see which group of people he's most likely to fit in with and get along with. After all he could be training, working and socialising with these people at least once a week, possibly more depending on how invovled he wants to become.

patrickrushe

Hey,

Anyone who wants an idea of what St John Ambulance gets up to should take a look at a couple of the divisional websites out there.

City Of Dublin First Aid and Ambulance Division
Cork City First Aid and Ambulance Division
Cabinteely First Aid and Ambulance Division
Castleknock First Aid and Ambulance Division

There is also a national website:
http://sja.ie

Please post a reply with links to the divisions in other organisations if anyone has them..

Cheers
Pat R.

whyohwhy

hey thanks for the info a lot of these groups wont allow members until 18 order of malta said they will get bk to me tho..and im waiting will keep you guys posted..as his career day in rds 2weeks ago had no info at all ..strange they had all colleges garda etc but nobody with info on joining firebrigade/ambulance service for a career .

Fyr.Fytr

DFB never have stands, they always have huge demand for their places, no need to recruit.

OMAC will accecpt you for the seniors at 16, cadets at 10

patrickrushe

My advice is for him to drop into a fire station and ask to speak to the station officer if he is interested in joining up..

Also look at the forums http://irishambulance.net and http://irishfireservices.com.. The should have plenty of information.

Does anyone know the minimum age for joining either services? Once the time comes, he could always train privately. I know there is a place in Galway now that is offering Phecc registered Emergency Medical Technician courses. He can use this as a stepping stone to moving on up to being a fully trained paramedic.

His other option is to go to Liverpool or one of the UK universities. I was over at an open day for a paramedic course recently with someone who was thinking of doing it. I also have a friend doing the course there at the moment. He is loving it and the people are really nice. The brilliant thing about that particular course is the emphasis on clinical experience. You are basically out and about in an ambulance from day 1.

Basically, while it might come accross that it is a fairly closed shop, there are always opportunities open. Finding the info might seem hard at first, but if it is what he wants to do, GO FOR IT!!

Pat R.

patrickrushe

One other thing that sprung to mind. If he is interested in joining the fire service moreso than EMS, he might think about joining Auxilary Fire Service. I went to a couple of nights up in Nutgrove before my company shipped me off. It was good fun, and again the people were nice.

Tango Alpha 51

patrickrushe wrote: »

My advice is for him to drop into a fire station and ask to speak to the station officer if he is interested in joining up..

Also look at the forums http://irishambulance.net and http://irishfireservices.com.. The should have plenty of information.

Does anyone know the minimum age for joining either services? Once the time comes, he could always train privately. I know there is a place in Galway now that is offering Phecc registered Emergency Medical Technician courses. He can use this as a stepping stone to moving on up to being a fully trained paramedic.

His other option is to go to Liverpool or one of the UK universities. I was over at an open day for a paramedic course recently with someone who was thinking of doing it. I also have a friend doing the course there at the moment. He is loving it and the people are really nice. The brilliant thing about that particular course is the emphasis on clinical experience. You are basically out and about in an ambulance from day 1.

Basically, while it might come accross that it is a fairly closed shop, there are always opportunities open. Finding the info might seem hard at first, but if it is what he wants to do, GO FOR IT!!

Pat R.

I would guess that the min age is 21 since that's the age you need to be to legally obtain the relevant licences. EMS in this country is changing at a radical pace. We're doing more now in the last 3 yrs than we've done in the previous 20. The HSE National Ambulance Service run recruitment drives at least once a yr but this depends on the budget. We do struggle, yes the job is hard but I would not change this career for anything. Members of the public have seen massive changes in the treatment of their loved ones & it's only going to get better. This is not a rosy picture of life in the service as we do have problems like our colleagues in the AGS & the F&R.
In relation to the OP request, visit your local first aid organisation & see what they do. It will give your son some sort of an insight into the work we do all be it no where near the levels of calls, injuries etc. Some times people join a vol organisation with a view to doing it fulltime & realise that fulltime is not for them & that they would be happier doing the odd horsey event etc.

sgt.bilko

guys, this gent was in the paper today.

Now I know that some people will belittle him because of his age but fair play to him !

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/hero-has-seen-it-all-on-the-frontlines-of-first-aid-2341220.html

dory

You've a terrible view of people if you think people who belittle a 90 year olf man with 70 years service to a voluntary organisation!!

He sounds like an incredible man.

glennhysen

I was the St John's for a few years in the 90's based in Crumlin and I remember Mr Brady well. A true gentleman.