Trish Stratus or Lita

MikeHoncho

This debate is over:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZjGtWQufC8

Minto

I always thought that Trish became great and that Lita was great from the begining.
Trish had a look that we've seen a million times before (Sable, Sunny), while I always thought Lita's look was unique. TBH, it's her fault I prefer red heads.
If I had to choose a winner, Lita would edge it.

lizann

Fozzy wrote: »

What are you (and others) basing this on?! She was one of the best in WWE at the time that she retired and for the two/three years previous to that

I just can't understand anyone saying that Lita was better! I'm not sure if people are basing it just on looks, but Lita was just a slight step above the likes of Torrie, Sable and Maria in the ring. Awkward looking in matches, especially with her moonsault. When working with the better wrestlers like Molly, Trish and Victoria she would take a beating poorly and then do a few big moves which were often messed up

Her finishing move the chick kick was crap. Lita's DDT was much better.

I don't understand why she was Diva of the Decade ????

flahavaj

Bubs101 wrote: »

But Lita would have stood out no matter who her oponent. Trish not so much

Name 5 outstanding matches in that case in which Lita has "stood out" so well?

oneofakind32

MikeHoncho wrote: »

This debate is over:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZjGtWQufC8

I remember that one. Lita got so sloppy towards the end of her run, but she definitely deserves credit for reviving WWEs woman's devision in the post Chyna era

Ham'nd'egger

flahavaj wrote: »

Name 5 outstanding matches in that case in which Lita has "stood out" so well?

Lita's one big day in the spotlight as a wrestler was her Women's title win over Stephanie Mcmahon; she was more over from heel heat than anything. After that, I'm scratching my head for anything as hot as that. While she had some athletic prowess, she was always reliant on showing her thong :rolleyes: and hanging with her male co-horts to help her get noticed, let alone over. Even before she made it in WWE, it was off the back of Essa Rios and a run in ECW when she was yet another valet. Trish in time got over on her own merits, after getting by on looks; Lita didn't seem to kop that it would take a lot more than looking good.

Lita Forever

Is everyone surprised that I've taken this long to reply? Lol. Seriously, I wasn't going to reply to this. The reasons being, first of all any time I post in a Lita related thread i normally end up in a debate and end up replying forever..which I didn't really feel like doing lol. And another thing is that it's a Lita vs. Trish debate which bores me. Both women tarted in the WWE around the same time, finished at the same time, and both contributed to the company. Some people prefer Lita, others Trish..it's down to personal preference. So I'm not too bothered about discussing that. The above post by Ham'nd'egger though, I just had to reply to...

Hamndegger wrote: »

Lita's one big day in the spotlight as a wrestler was her Women's title win over Stephanie Mcmahon; she was more over from heel heat than anything.

Though Lita's first title win was definitely a very important part of her WWE career, it was far from " her one big day the spotlight". She had more memorable moments then that. I'd count her second title win which was again, in the main event slot on Raw as a big moment. She main evented Raw various times working with top level male talent such as The Rock, Steve Austin, Triple H, Kurt Angle, etc. It's fair to say she was in the spotlight then. I could go on listing big moments that she was a part of, I only mentioned the main event ones.

Hamndegger wrote: »

she was always reliant on showing her thong :rolleyes: and hanging with her male co-horts to help her get noticed, let alone over.

I'm not even gonna touch on the thong comment..that's just silly. But I will say it's not fair to suggest that the only reason she got over or was because of the males she managed. She got noticed initially for her high flying moves. It was unheard of at the time for an American female to pull off flying hurracanranas, moonsaults and other aerial maneuvers. That's what got her noticed. I think it's fair to say she helped get her male associates over more so then the other way around. She played a big part in getting Rios, The Hardy's and Edge over. Yeah she definitively benefited from the associations, but they were mutually beneficial, they didn't just go one way.

Hamndegger wrote: »

Even before she made it in WWE, it was off the back of Essa Rios and a run in ECW when she was yet another valet.

Wrong. I don't believe she got over " on the back of Essa Rios" Pre Lita he never really got over by himself in his various incarnations. ( Aguila, Papi Chulo..etc.) Post Lita he was on Metal & Heat every weekend. He appeared on the main shows maybe five times. His sole PPV match was when Lita was by his side vs. Eddie Guerrero at Backlash. A feud, it can be argued, that was over more so on the Lita/ Chyna feud then Essa & Eddie. So the only time he was really over was when Lita was with him. After the split Lita continued to be over and went onto great things. Essa faded and faded until he was released. Who really got over off whose back there?

I can't really understand what you meant by mentioning ECW. Are you saying her run in ECW got her over with the WWE crowd? If so, then I don't really think her short run there which consisted of one match, a few cat fights and a couple of promos would have contributed much to her getting over in WWE. But I don't think that's what you meant? I don't understand the point you're trying to make with the "ECW/ just another valet" comment at all. I'm honestly perplexed buy that one, sorry.

chopperbyrne

Lita Forever wrote: »

snip

Can you honestly say that after her first injury she wasn't horrible in the ring?

Lita Forever

Where in my post did I mention her in ring skills?...

But now that you mention it I can honestly say she wasn't horrible in the ring after her first injury. If anything she was horrible in the ring before the injury. I wouldn't have said Lita was a great wrestler at any stage, but I do think she's under rated as a wrestler. Fair enough she wasn't on the level of Victoria, Molly, Jazz etc..but she wasn't horrible either. She had some good in ring showings, especially in 2004 against Jazz, Gail, Victoria among others. Yeah, there was times when she looked bad in there but that wasn't always the case at all.

chopperbyrne

Lita Forever wrote: »

Where in my post did I mention her in ring skills?...

Right about here:

Lita Forever wrote:

I'm not even gonna touch on the thong comment..that's just silly. But I will say it's not fair to suggest that the only reason she got over or was because of the males she managed. She got noticed initially for her high flying moves. It was unheard of at the time for an American female to pull off flying hurracanranas, moonsaults and other aerial maneuvers. That's what got her noticed. I think it's fair to say she helped get her male associates over more so then the other way around. She played a big part in getting Rios, The Hardy's and Edge over. Yeah she definitively benefited from the associations, but they were mutually beneficial, they didn't just go one way.

Although at least you're not a blind fanatical who sees no wrong ever.

She definitely helped get people over, but as far as in-ring goes (which I assume this poll was about?) Trish was better.

EdK

It seems to me Trish improved through the years but Lita seemed to get worse I think Lita suffered from her lack of matches because she spent alot of time as a valet

Y2J IS GOD

Lita was involved in a number mixed gender tag matches one of her besrt was

The Hardyz/Lita V SCSA/HHH/Steph

Lita took the stunner and pedigree good and sold them well

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yh0VwAryEY4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuzoLlUcBeM&feature=related

Ham'nd'egger

I think you misunderstand some of what I said.

Lita Forever wrote: »

Though Lita's first title win was definitely a very important part of her WWE career, it was far from " her one big day the spotlight". She had more memorable moments then that. I'd count her second title win which was again, in the main event slot on Raw as a big moment. She main evented Raw various times working with top level male talent such as The Rock, Steve Austin, Triple H, Kurt Angle, etc. It's fair to say she was in the spotlight then. I could go on listing big moments that she was a part of, I only mentioned the main event ones.

To be honest, you can't exactly say that a manager main events Raw on the basis of being there. Certainly, she was part but it is about more than just being a hanger on. If that is the case, JR has main evented RAW. My point is this; Lita wrestled in, and won a title in a Raw main event. While she was insanely popular at the time, you have to accept that Stephanie was ultra hot for drawing heat from fans; some nights she simply stood in the ring for several minutes while fans jeered and heckled her. That said, Lita was the logical one to win the belt and deserved it She was it, she was there and though she had other big moments, that was her day in the sun. If anything, this is a feather in her cap; you ought to be proud of here for that.

Lita Forever wrote: »

I'm not even gonna touch on the thong comment..that's just silly. But I will say it's not fair to suggest that the only reason she got over or was because of the males she managed. She got noticed initially for her high flying moves. It was unheard of at the time for an American female to pull off flying hurracanranas, moonsaults and other aerial maneuvers. That's what got her noticed. I think it's fair to say she helped get her male associates over more so then the other way around. She played a big part in getting Rios, The Hardy's and Edge over. Yeah she definitively benefited from the associations, but they were mutually beneficial, they didn't just go one way.

I agree that the thong stuff was silly but it was mentioned every time when she was on TV and as such, you cannot but argue that it wasn't a big part of her getting over. Certainly, the high flying moves got her noticed but neither did it carry her any further; after a while you need something else. As for her getting people over, Edge, Christian and the Hardys did her a lot more good than they did her; how over was Essa Rios from her?

Lita Forever wrote: »

Wrong. I don't believe she got over " on the back of Essa Rios" Pre Lita he never really got over by himself in his various incarnations. ( Aguila, Papi Chulo..etc.) Post Lita he was on Metal & Heat every weekend. He appeared on the main shows maybe five times. His sole PPV match was when Lita was by his side vs. Eddie Guerrero at Backlash. A feud, it can be argued, that was over more so on the Lita/ Chyna feud then Essa & Eddie. So the only time he was really over was when Lita was with him. After the split Lita continued to be over and went onto great things. Essa faded and faded until he was released. Who really got over off whose back there?

One reason why Lita was placed with Essa was because she spoke Spanish and was able to work with him and other wrestlers (He had poor English). I can't imagine that Lita would have had the same success paired with most other wrestlers at the time. Granted, much of her success was down to her own hard work and skill but it was still to the detriment of his character. A valet/manager is supposed to help work the public towards liking or disliking their wrestler; Essa didn't get as far after they split. She did well out of it but in the long run, she was noticed, not him.

Lita Forever wrote: »

I can't really understand what you meant by mentioning ECW. Are you saying her run in ECW got her over with the WWE crowd? If so, then I don't really think her short run there which consisted of one match, a few cat fights and a couple of promos would have contributed much to her getting over in WWE. But I don't think that's what you meant? I don't understand the point you're trying to make with the "ECW/ just another valet" comment at all. I'm honestly perplexed buy that one, sorry.

Lita was working in ECW before she was in WWE. That was her break as a valet, that is what I was saying.

Mrs Roy Keane

Lita put women's wrestling back on the map she was very popular. She had an original style.

Eire 4Ever

Lita basically made Trish she carried in all their matches Trish got better from her matches with Lita and their feud

Lita was original and unique she took chances

DRakE

guinnessdrinker

I gotta say Trish ftw. Lita's cool too though, and I feel bad saying this, but her voice is really annoying.

grames_bond

EdK wrote: »

It seems to me Trish improved through the years but Lita seemed to get worse I think Lita suffered from her lack of matches because she spent alot of time as a valet

ye i agree, trish started as a valet and became a wrestler, lita went the other way which was her downfall!

Lita Forever

Chopperbyrne..when I asked you where I mentioned ring skills in my initial post in this thread, what I meant by ring skills was the actual ability to work a match from bell to bell..not individual spots like moonsaults etc. I don't consider the ability to pull off single spots on the same level as actual wrestling ability. Though both require great amount of skills..there's a big difference between them. So when I touched on Lita performing those moves i wasn't referring to her in ring skills.

Hamndegger wrote: »

To be honest, you can't exactly say that a manager main events Raw on the basis of being there. Certainly, she was part but it is about more than just being a hanger on. If that is the case, JR has main evented RAW.

I wasn't referring to her main eventing by being a manager, she has actually wrestled in main events with those men. Just a couple of examples;

w/ The Rock vs. HHH & Trish Stratus- Raw 31/7/2000

w/ The Dudleys vs. HHH/Angle & Stephanie - Smackdown 3/8/2000

w/ The Rock vs. Angle & Stephanie- Smackdown 24/8/2000

w/ The Hardy Boyz vs. HHH/Steve Austin & Stephanie McMahon- Raw 9/4/2001

She's main evented Raw & Smackdown 7 times..so while I do think her first title run was a great moment, but it shouldn't be remembered as the only big moment of her career.

Hamndegger wrote: »

I agree that the thong stuff was silly but it was mentioned every time when she was on TV and as such, you cannot but argue that it wasn't a big part of her getting over. Certainly, the high flying moves got her noticed but neither did it carry her any further; after a while you need something else. As for her getting people over, Edge, Christian and the Hardys did her a lot more good than they did her; how over was Essa Rios from her?

I'll agree that the thong added to Lita's overall vibe and character, and it was definitely something the fans liked, but I wouldn't say it played a big part of getting her over. Sure, it added to her appeal, but she would have been just as over without it.

I do agree that while Lita did a lot for the careers of the Hardy's, and to a lesser extent E & C..they did just as much for hers. As for how over was Rios without her?..A lot more then he would have been without her, that's for sure. : )

Hamndegger wrote: »

One reason why Lita was placed with Essa was because she spoke Spanish and was able to work with him and other wrestlers (He had poor English). I can't imagine that Lita would have had the same success paired with most other wrestlers at the time.

I see the point you're making, but I believe she would have gotten over paired with a lot of other wrestlers. What got her over the most was the fact she was pulling out moves that were unheard of for American women at the time. You could argue that in those days in the WWE you'd rarely see the guys pulling off those high flying moves..( hurracanranas off the apron, corkscrew moonsaults etc. ) It was something different and that's what got people talking about her. She could have pulled those moves off while managing any guy.

Don't get me wrong, Of course the fact that she was paired with a high flying guy with similar hair, attire etc helped her a lot . But I do think Lita would have reached a high level of success paired with other guys based on her own unique look and high flying moves.

Hamndegger wrote: »

Granted, much of her success was down to her own hard work and skill but it was still to the detriment of his character. A valet/manager is supposed to help work the public towards liking or disliking their wrestler; Essa didn't get as far after they split. She did well out of it but in the long run, she was noticed, not him.

I wouldn't blame Lita for Essa's downfall after the split at all. Essa had no mic skills and worked a style that wasn't conjunctive to main event status in the WWE. There was never going to be any plans beyond the weekend shows for him. Had WWE pushed a serious cruiser weight division at the time, things may have been different. But with the way things were, there was very limited directions the WWE could have went with Essa, with or without Lita by his side. Had it not been for Lita getting over with the crowd and WWE being forced to sit up and take notice and push her to the moon..there's a chance she could have went the same way as Essa...While she was with him, I believe she was a good manager and both played their parts in the pairing well.

Overall, you made some valid points, I just had to reply to those above points..as I usually end up saying when I have a Lita debate with mature intelligent posters..I think we can agree to disagree..:)

Y2J IS GOD

Hamndegger wrote: »

I think you misunderstand some of what I said.



To be honest, you can't exactly say that a manager main events Raw on the basis of being there. Certainly, she was part but it is about more than just being a hanger on. If that is the case, JR has main evented RAW. My point is this; Lita wrestled in, and won a title in a Raw main event. While she was insanely popular at the time, you have to accept that Stephanie was ultra hot for drawing heat from fans; some nights she simply stood in the ring for several minutes while fans jeered and heckled her. That said, Lita was the logical one to win the belt and deserved it She was it, she was there and though she had other big moments, that was her day in the sun. If anything, this is a feather in her cap; you ought to be proud of here for that.

She was in main event as a wrestler in the inter gender matches not as a valet or manager

Some that stands out was

Team Extreme V SCSA/STeph/HHH

Y2J/Lita V Trish/Benoit

The Rock/Lita V HHH/Trish

Tricity Bendix

In fairness to Essa Rios, he actually got a bit of a rivalry going with Kurt Angle. They had an awesome match on HEAT, which was most likely the best he had while working for the 'E, if not the best match of his career. Sure it wasn't on PPV, but I bet more people tuned into HEAT that week.

As for Lita vs Trish, both of them had potential to be great wrestlers, and although they did well in many matches, my overall opinion is meh.

In the looks department, I used to have a thing for Lita when I was younger, but now that I'm a little bit older and a little bit wiser I gotta say Trish by a country mile.

Mrs Roy Keane

Lita Forever wrote: »

I'll agree that the thong added to Lita's overall vibe and character, and it was definitely something the fans liked, but I wouldn't say it played a big part of getting her over. Sure, it added to her appeal, but she would have been just as over without it.

Did you know it was Edge (Adam Copeland) who was reponsible for her showing her thong its in her biography

grames_bond

Mrs Roy Keane wrote: »

Did you know it was Edge (Adam Copeland) who was reponsible for her showing her thong its in her biography

really? id like to shake that mans hand!! did he just walk up to her and go "u look good but you need to give the teenage boys something to look at, as if they've gotten away with something!

Lita Forever

Mrs Roy Keane wrote: »

Did you know it was Edge (Adam Copeland) who was reponsible for her showing her thong its in her biography

Yeah, I first heard that story when I watched her video, (It Just Feels Right) and then later read it in her autobiography. Kind of funny in a way that Edge would be the man responsible for that part of her image which played a part in turning her into a sex symbol. Lol.

Handsome Bob

Bubs101 wrote: »

But Lita would have stood out no matter who her oponent. Trish not so much

To me Lita is just a female version of Jeff Hardy. Would do somewhat entertaining moves and then the odd absolutely insane thing.

Trish for my money was a more polished in ring performer. Her actual wrestling skills were better than Lita's. Hell, Candice Michelle to me is a better wrestler than Lita also. Plus Trish had Lita any day on the mic.

Lit is a good performer but I don't think she could carry any diva in a match. Some divas you just can't carry no matter how good you are. The likes of Stacy, Maria, Kristal and Kelly Kelly are unwrestleable.

But I think you underestimate Trish's ability. As mentioned already she has had great matches with Molly Holly, Victoria, Mickie James, Jazz and Jacqui.

Handsome Bob

Y2J IS GOD wrote: »

Both were great WWE divas but i think Lita was better than Trish.

She really helped make the WWE popular during the Attitude Era.

Its same they way she left WWE she deserved a better send off and also longer women's champion title reign.

Really? I think she got a send off that was acceptable. Did you expect the kind of send off that Trish got for someone who was quite unprofessional in the last year and a half of her career?

Y2J IS GOD

LZ5by5 wrote: »

Really? I think she got a send off that was acceptable. Did you expect the kind of send off that Trish got for someone who was quite unprofessional in the last year and a half of her career?

Amy had the affair with Adam, the WWE should not have used it as a storyline
She did deserve a better send off

Handsome Bob

Y2J IS GOD wrote: »

Amy had the affair with Adam, the WWE should not have used it as a storyline
She did deserve a better send off

Wrestlers can turn down a storyline if they want. Also, Amy Dumas left WWE in a situation where they had no choice BUT to turn her heel, I cannot blame them for using the affair as it was common knowledge anyway.

1408

While I think Trish wears better lingerie Im gonna have to say its Lita that I fancy the ass off, love the red heads, always have

Tricity Bendix

LZ5by5 wrote: »

Really? I think she got a send off that was acceptable. Did you expect the kind of send off that Trish got for someone who was quite unprofessional in the last year and a half of her career?

How was she unprofessional? I thought the way she played a character that she wasn't entirely comfortable with speaks volumes of her professionalism. When Kristal was asked to play the same role she balked, and was rightly fired.