DEAP/BER Issues (Merged)

BERk8

sydthebeat wrote: »

No, its the same thing

it will be requested as part of the conveyancing procedure. There was an article about this in a recent law society journal.

ha, i read that article, it wasn't even written by a government official or SEI representative, it was by another fecking BER assessor!

sydthebeat

BERk8 wrote: »

The Government has copped out again on this one, just like the NCT! All they need to do is incorporate it into the planning process et voila, SI 666 EPBD is a useful piece of legislation.

they cannot incorporate it into the planning process. Planning legislation doesnt allow for the policing of construction methods and building regulations, building control section DOES!!!

Therefore the only way to truely police this is to have 100% building control inspections, which will never happen.

That is why the law society are taking it upon themselves (they are not required to legislatively!) to request BER certification as part of either the conveyancing process or the standard certification process.

I dont know what the point of your last post is. What point are you trying to make?

BERk8

My point is that the Government & SEI are not seeing this one through, purely paying lip service to EU directive.

sydthebeat

just did a provisional BER on a dwelling.
Inputed basic values such as 2.0 windows, no draughstripping, no low energy bulbs, minimum reg elemental u values, 85% oil burner and rad system, passive vents, masonry......

The dwelling still achieved a B3 rating.

This proves to me that a well designed building making most of passive solar gains is probably THE most important factor in achieving a good rating. All others are secondary to this.

this particular dwelling has 40% glazing on southern walls and has a 12 sq m glazed section in the south roof plane.

It wont take much to get this up to at least an A2, and thankfully the clients are very interested in achieving this.

Chimpster

sydthebeat wrote: »

just did a provisional BER on a dwelling.
Inputed basic values such as 2.0 windows, no draughstripping, no low energy bulbs, minimum reg elemental u values, 85% oil burner and rad system, passive vents, masonry......

The dwelling still achieved a B3 rating.

This proves to me that a well designed building making most of passive solar gains is probably THE most important factor in achieving a good rating. All others are secondary to this.

this particular dwelling has 40% glazing on southern walls and has a 12 sq m glazed section in the south roof plane.

It wont take much to get this up to at least an A2, and thankfully the clients are very interested in achieving this.

A2 is a fair push Syd, Is it a masonary built house? I assume they are open to using MHRV and spending plenty on Insulation, high effeciency heating etc?

Villain

Quick question re BER, I have just started a self build, footings starting tomorrow, when should I engage a BER tester? Simply when I finish or should I get a provisional based on my plans now and get some advice?

PS.
My current plan is standard 100mm block cavity pumped with best bead available.
Dry line all external walls internally with 50mm warm board
Timber sub floor with insulation between joists, best available
Triple Glazed AluClad windows with U Value of .9 or 1.28 depending on which I go with
House will be as air tight as possible and a HRV system will be installed
Condensing Oil Burner will be the source of the heating

Anyone want to guess what rating I might get?

sinnerboy

best to get a prelim rating now . a BER assessment has to include suggested improvements . why wait untill it may too late to take these on board ?

sydthebeat

Chimpster wrote: »

A2 is a fair push Syd, Is it a masonary built house? I assume they are open to using MHRV and spending plenty on Insulation, high effeciency heating etc?

It is a masonry build.

The prelim BER will include HRV inputs, increased elemental u values throughout, wood burner, solar collectors, 100% low energy CFL, 100% draughstripping, better windows and doors etc, so i dont expect reaching an A2 to be too difficult.

Ill let you know how the prelim gets on....

smooth operater

sydthebeat wrote: »

It is a masonry build.

The prelim BER will include HRV inputs, increased elemental u values throughout, wood burner, solar collectors, 100% low energy CFL, 100% draughstripping, better windows and doors etc, so i dont expect reaching an A2 to be too difficult.

Ill let you know how the prelim gets on....

Sounds like you'll defo hit the A3, from then on it get quite harder to get the A2 etc

showmedmoney

Hi Just though i would share with you,

Rang the SEI the other day to find out how many BER certs were issued since jan 07'

he siad that there has been a grand total of 365 certs issued to date (including prelims).

looks like nobody is making a killing out of this yet any way?

Villain

Are you serious only 365 certs in 15 months, thats only about 6 a week, wouldn't want to do the course thinking you will make money from it!!

smooth operater

nope. its definetly not standalone....

sydthebeat

smooth operater wrote: »

Sounds like you'll defo hit the A3, from then on it get quite harder to get the A2 etc

phew, you were correct smooth operator......

it was no problem at all going from B3 to B1.... but to try to get to A3 was extremly difficult.

ended up with following *upgrades*

floor: 0.11
walls: 0.16
sloped ceiling: 0.11
flat ceiling: 0.09

windows: 1.2

70% efficient HRV with 0.5 ac/h

90% efficient wood gasification burner

100% low energy fixtures
100% draughtproofing

6 sq m of solar evacuated tube collectors.......


mine eyes have seen the light.....:)

smooth operater

HRV units can be up to 90% efficient- try vent axia, other than that good work. Outta curiousity, what kW.hr/m2 are you at with that? How bigs the house?

sydthebeat

thanks, good to know... what running (w/hr by the way??)

its 160 sq m GF, 130 FF so total 300 sq m....

currently at 74.69 kwhr/m2/y

Chimpster

sydthebeat wrote: »

phew, you were correct smooth operator......

it was no problem at all going from B3 to B1.... but to try to get to A3 was extremly difficult.

Its a bitch of a spine chiller alright when your trying to get something to a specific target.

Just out of interest, are you doing an air tightness test? If so what figure did you provisionally use for this?

smooth operater

sydthebeat wrote: »

thanks, good to know... what running (w/hr by the way??)

its 160 sq m GF, 130 FF so total 300 sq m....

currently at 74.69 kwhr/m2/y

0.92w/hr

well done, when the client hears its an A they'll be delighted

sydthebeat

hopefully they wont blow a fuse when they see the construction...

floor:
150 PU insulation 150 conc slab

walls:
330 cavity with 80 PU partial fill, drylined with 52.5 thermal lining

sloped ceiling:
200 PU between rafter, 50 PU over (warm roof) 52.5 thermal lining as ceiling

flat ceiling:
200 quilted over
150 Pu between joists
52.5 thermal lining as ceiling


I know its easy to pick holes in the construction details, but i have to taken into account the contract type (direct labour) and supervision standard (basic inspections)

smooth operater

sydthebeat wrote: »

hopefully they wont blow a fuse when they see the construction...

lol

If its an A rated house they want, thats one off the roads they'd have to go down. Its not your fault thats whats required.

sinnerboy

might find windows at 1.2 difficult source at right price - 1.4 opens up a reasonable choice

and will they ACTUALLY install low energy fitting everywhere ?

not picking holes here , good posting STB

sinnerboy

would you consider for ext walls

215 block on flat with rendered "outsulation" - would cut down on y factor

( if permitted design allows of course )

sydthebeat

sinnerboy wrote: »

might find windows at 1.2 difficult source at right price - 1.4 opens up a reasonable choice

and will they ACTUALLY install low energy fitting everywhere ?

not picking holes here , good posting STB

1. good point about window selection, will know more after tender process.
2. they will at least have low energy bulbs, which is allowed in DEAP

sinnerboy

What I mean about low energy lighting ( fittings or simply bulbs ) is that they can be fairly awful , in terms of light quality Client may aspire to using but may not follow through .

( not a criticism of you STB )

250882

I thought that DEAP only counted low energy FITTINGS to cut out the option of replacing the expensive low energy light bulbs with standard ones.

Air tightness,
Anybody do an air tightness test on a house yet? I had a B1 and when I added the results of the airtightness test (3 ac per hour) it went down to a C. What I'm finding is that the less information you have the better your rating (standard values seem too high, 100% draft sealed? front elevation south facing? default 2 sheltered sides)

sydthebeat

did you divide the air tightness result by 20???

an air change rate of 3 (which is exceptionally good BTW!!) is actually inputted as 0.15 in DEAP


on the low energy outlets....

Allowing for fixed low-energy outlets

In Irish dwellings, the average annual energy consumption for lighting per unit floor area, EB, is taken to as follows if no low-energy lighting is used.

EB = 9.3 kWh/m2 year (L1)

The DEAP calculation takes account of fixed lighting outlets with low-energy lamps, by including a correction factor C1:

C1 = 1 – 0.5 ´ NLE/N (L2)

where NLE is the number of fixed low energy lighting outlets (including sockets or complete luminaires capable of taking only low-energy lamps, and also compact fluorescent lamps that fitted into ordinary lighting sockets) and N is the total number of fixed lighting outlets (only the ratio NLE/N is needed).

smooth operater

The result of your air tightness test is given in m3/m2/hr at + or - 50PA which is known as your- air pearmability

Its that result you divide by 20 to get the ac/h at atmospheric pressure

muffler

A question for all you BER assessors or those who aspire to be.

I had a talk with an auctioneer today and he informs me that there is nobody qualified to issue any details for a second hand house. He said that in order to do so another course had to be done and that the IAVA have been told that the course is not yet available.

So can someone selling a 2nd hand house next year get a cert for it?

Comments please.

sinnerboy

muffler wrote: »

A question for all you BER assessors or those who aspire to be.

I had a talk with an auctioneer today and he informs me that there is nobody qualified to issue any details for a second hand house. He said that in order to do so another course had to be done and that the IAVA have been told that the course is not yet available.

So can someone selling a 2nd hand house next year get a cert for it?

Comments please.

the auctioneer is correct - see post 109 of this thread

my prediction - the minister will have to push BER implementation dates back

muffler

sinnerboy wrote: »

the auctioneer is correct - see post 109 of this thread

my prediction - the minister will have to push BER implementation dates back

Good man. Cheers

Villain

Is that still due to the software not been ready for existing houses?