The Taxi Industry and how ridiculous it has gotten, a drivers view..

meanmachine3

HydeRoad wrote: »

Taxi drivers today are averaging €80 a day, excluding a few hours at the weekend when the pubs close. Your speculation of €300 is wildly off the scale. That's roughly ten euro an hour, in a job where you have to provide your own good car, pay exorbitant insurance, pay rising fuel costs, have no sick/pension/holiday entitlements, and where the banks don't want to know you. That's what I'm earning, and there's nothing I can do short of working 60 or 70 hours a week, which I refuse to do.

nobody is forcing anyone to become a taxi driver, so if things are really that bad and your not making any money, then get a real job where you get all of the above entitlements.

HydeRoad

Meanmachine, try to contribute something meaningful to the debate.

What I personally do with my life is none of your business. The debate is about the taxi industry. Everyone is dissatisfied with it at the moment, the customers, the drivers, other road users. We have a third world health service. We have a third world bus service. Now we are getting a third world taxi service. It happens because there is no proper administration of public service in this country, only advisory committees and talking shops. Nobody actually takes charge or takes responsibility. One poster here suggested that taxi drivers should take a cut in their €1,500 a week wages, and I am trying to explain to him that his opinion of taxi drivers is out of touch, by my own example. That is the point of the paragraph you quoted - please don't take it out of context.

If you think it is progressive for full time taxi drivers who know their job and know their city, to be replaced by cheap labour who do not know the job and have no idea of their way round the city, then you are out of touch too.

meanmachine3

in a job where you have to provide your own good car, pay exorbitant insurance, pay rising fuel costs, have no sick/pension/holiday entitlements

this is a common complaint from taxi drivers on this site not just from you
hyderoad, as i said no one is forcing anyone to become a taxi driver yet they still whine that they dont get this or that.while i dont have time for taxi drivers i dont agree with cheap labour nor do i agree with people getting licences in dublin that dont know where the likes of o'connell bridge or o'connell street is (these are just examples).
yes maybe if we had a real authority and a proper justice department that dealt with taxi's properly and thoroughly, i might have a tiny wee bit more of sympathy.
a classic example of justice is. i could go out tomorrow night when pubs are closing set up my own rank at any pub and if i'm asked ,"ahhhh guard i just got a call for a pick up" then get the first punter that wants a taxi even though i'm illegally parked
then i could bring up another issue of plates on taxi's when they're not even working.
i'd say alot of taxi drivers that are whinging are the ones that welcomed de-regulation ,jumped at the first chance of getting a plate without having to pay upto £80,000 old irish and now years after de-reg are finding themselves without the cushy number they had because there are so many taxi's out there and they themselves are now being squeezed out by the part timers.

Spook_ie

PRND wrote: »

Well if lowering fares won't increase journeys in taxis then what will?

A person sleeps in for work. He can either get a taxi to work or else phone in and tell them he'll be late. How do you make him do the former?

Why is the Luas and the 46A and the DART stretched to capacity in the morning when the taxi ranks are full of cars moving nowhere? How do you get them off the public transport and into taxis?

Your income has dropped due to a reduction of passengers per taxi or conversely an increase of taxis per passenger. By making taxis more attractive this will change.

So how would you get more people into taxis?

Firstly a very rare apology from me, I hadn't realised that you were such a sensitive soul, I would suggest you don't contemplate taxi driving with such sensitivities, anyway, back to the topic....

You're not going to move people away from the DART and LUAS because they do a wonderful job in moving a mass of people from point A to point B ( as long as points A and B happen to be useful to you ), so luring people from them to taxis is a no go idea, taxis are idealy suited to taking you either to Point A or from Point B, which brings us neatly on to the lack of ranks for the number of taxis leading to excessive congestion, the whole industry at the moment is a complete and total shambles... I suggest you have a read on the governments Transport Inititives and count the number of times "taxi" is mentioned, that will probably give you the gist of the governments intentions towards taxis.

HydeRoad

I always find these personal tit for tats on Boards so monotonous, and I dread to get involved in one. It's not interesting for the general readership. So I'll be brief.

Meanmachine, your arguments are all mixed up. You have no time for taxi drivers. Yet you've no time for the cheap labour alternative either. Straight away, your opinions are null and void, because there are very good taxi drivers and equally bad taxi drivers. Please don't be so low minded as to condemn everyone, if you wish to be taken seriously. By the way, what has the 'Justice' department got to do with taxi drivers?

I don't want anything from anyone. I'll work for myself, and pay for everything I have. The point is, you will lose the decent taxi drivers, in fact are losing them already, because they cannot break even. It's not a case of getting handouts, it's a case of simply covering the bare essentials. Leave the 'entitlements' out of it. I didn't ask for any.

The choice is simple. Aim for some level of professionalism in the industry, by creating competitive pricing, encouraging (not just legislating) better quality vehicles, putting in immediately a credible assessment structure for drivers, and creating a reasonable amount of rank space, in proportion to the number of taxis available.

Or else leaving the floodgates open, and creating a high turnover of drivers in the industry, who have no knowledge and no interest in the job, and losing customer service.

Meanmachine, I know you'll have to get the last word in, and it'll probably be a cheap shot, but I only want to broaden the debate, see if there's another way of looking at the problem. We won't solve things on an internet forum, but it's nice to hear good debate on the issues. PRND, at least, provokes debate. Meanmachine, give us your suggestions for a better taxi service, don't just bore us all with the jaded 'I hate taxi drivers' line.

Spook_ie

meanmachine3 wrote: »

in a job where you have to provide your own good car, pay exorbitant insurance, pay rising fuel costs, have no sick/pension/holiday entitlements

this is a common complaint from taxi drivers on this site not just from you
hyderoad, as i said no one is forcing anyone to become a taxi driver yet they still whine that they dont get this or that.while i dont have time for taxi drivers i dont agree with cheap labour nor do i agree with people getting licences in dublin that dont know where the likes of o'connell bridge or o'connell street is (these are just examples).
yes maybe if we had a real authority and a proper justice department that dealt with taxi's properly and thoroughly, i might have a tiny wee bit more of sympathy.
a classic example of justice is. i could go out tomorrow night when pubs are closing set up my own rank at any pub and if i'm asked ,"ahhhh guard i just got a call for a pick up" then get the first punter that wants a taxi even though i'm illegally parked
then i could bring up another issue of plates on taxi's when they're not even working.
i'd say alot of taxi drivers that are whinging are the ones that welcomed de-regulation ,jumped at the first chance of getting a plate without having to pay upto £80,000 old irish and now years after de-reg are finding themselves without the cushy number they had because there are so many taxi's out there and they themselves are now being squeezed out by the part timers.

I think you'll find the whining is more to do with having a level playing field, the part time ( PAYE ) driver has a large advantage over the full time taxi driver. I'll take my job as it is, as long as I can compete on level terms and I'll work within the reasonable requirements of a regulated taxi industry.

As for the proper authority and justice department, that is suposed to be the Taxi Regulators office ( another source of complaints from Taxi Drivers ), maybe if they were to do their job and enforce things we wouldn't be in this mess, with the YSIG ( You Show, I'll Go ) brigade etc. As for the example, that is just the lazyness of the Gardai and depends on which way the Gardai is feeling, I know I got a ticket for picking up a genuine booked passenger from a shopping centre.

As for plates on taxis when they're not working, I work whenever I drive the cab ( a case of having to, with so many cabs on the road ), maybe you're refering to the part time ( PAYE ) brigade that use the taxi to get to and from their place of work..

PRND

I think that part time drivers is fundamentally unfair if they have another job already. But what if they are just doing a few hours here and there in their retirement or else have kids to look after?

With there being not enough customers for taxis, might it make sense to scrap the callout charge? The driver is guaranteed to get a fare once he gets out there, which is better than scouting round for one, so does not need this compensation. Furthermore it would encourage people to get the car to their door instead of walking to a rank and then on the way finding another way to make their journey or else decide to wall as it is not so busy afterall.

Spookie, you are a wanker, a bastard and a tosser. I have no reason to say this but given that you are thick skinned I might as well say it.

meanmachine3

to me cheap labour and privatisation both lead to the same thing.
disaster and chaos.
before de-reg happened everyone wanted the taxi system opened up to more taxi's.
now this has happened we have gone the other extreme where people are now looking/calling to cap the amount of taxi's on our streets therefore getting rid/ closing or whatever you want to call it of deregulation.
de-reg has never affected me before or after it happened so imo cap the amount if taxi's.
when applying for taxi license you only do a written exam. what is needed is a drving test as well.
alot of the streets are clogged up at the w/e's. take for example dame st./georges st. there is a rank for only about 6-8 taxi's yet the rank is right up to the traffic lights and on the yellow box junction at most w/e's. this is what i mean about the justice dept. the guards are not enforcing the limit on ranks. if it's full then taxi's should be moved on.
taxi driver's with defective cars should not be on the road.if a taxi has any of it's headlights/ indicators etc not working they should be forced to take their sign down and not be allowed to use that car as a taxi until it's fixed. they are a danger to themselves and others.i know the car has to do some D.O.E.
as you said hyderoad get rid of the bangers.
appearance: jasus there are some drivers that are dressed up worse than ali G. A dress code wouldn't go amiss.
thats all i have for now but i'm sure i'll think of other stuff.

Victor

Cop on guys. Attack the post, not the poster.

If anyone wants I can increase their infractions to bans.

HydeRoad

That's all much of what I'd say myself. As regards the Dame Street rank, to take that example, the Gardai ARE moving on the taxi drivers. With a vengeance, believe me! It doesn't get to the root of the problem, though, which is 79 ranks for 16,000 taxis! That is the issue that is causing the most consternation all round at this point in time. Only today on the radio, Waterford taxi drivers were making the very same complaint.

If Dublin Bus doubled the number of buses in the city tomorrow, there would be no bus stop space. Likewise the taxis, 200 more EVERY WEEK, but no extra rank space. Another thread here tells us buses are no longer stopping at some bus stops because of queued taxis. It might be the fault of individual taxi drivers for blocking bus stops, but in actual fact the real problem is lack of management of the entire city infrastructure. Buses, taxis, delivery vans, private parking, everything is a free for all at the moment. Ticketing taxi drivers doesn't solve the problem. There are 16,000 taxis and growing. Where are they all to go??? Less taxis or more ranks. It's causing everyone enormous hassle.

Spook_ie

PRND wrote: »

I think that part time drivers is fundamentally unfair if they have another job already. But what if they are just doing a few hours here and there in their retirement or else have kids to look after?

With there being not enough customers for taxis, might it make sense to scrap the callout charge? The driver is guaranteed to get a fare once he gets out there, which is better than scouting round for one, so does not need this compensation. Furthermore it would encourage people to get the car to their door instead of walking to a rank and then on the way finding another way to make their journey or else decide to wall as it is not so busy afterall.

Spookie, you are a wanker, a bastard and a tosser. I have no reason to say this but given that you are thick skinned I might as well say it.

If only there were some way to ensure that people who asked for a taxi would be there, instead of them being some student, drunk, prankster whatever who gets their kicks from seeing a few taxis pulling up outside the door as fun!

Yes, I am thickskinned, No, you won't get any furthur apologies from me

Spook_ie

The ranks problem is not confined to the city centre either, try looking in Malahide, new rank for approx 10 cars, the queue stretches from it, around the corner,along the next street and up the wrong way in a one way street.

The rank when you do get onto it is often blocked by private cars parked whose drivers can't be arsed walking any distance to the pub. Do the Gardai do anything about either situation... NO

PRND

If I was a drunk, student or prankster and had no intention of paying anything at all, never mind what is on the meter then what is sticking on ?2 onto the meter going to do to prevent this?

Spook. Are you saying that this ?2 charge is to prevent people who aren't going to get in from ordering taxis? And abolishing it would prevent such people from doing so?

As far as I'm concerned those who phone taxi, pizza, chinese or ambulance without good reason are idiots and don't deserve a service.

Ham'nd'egger

PRND wrote: »

If I was a drunk, student or prankster and had no intention of paying anything at all, never mind what is on the meter then what is sticking on ?2 onto the meter going to do to prevent this?

Spook. Are you saying that this ?2 charge is to prevent people who aren't going to get in from ordering taxis? And abolishing it would prevent such people from doing so?

As far as I'm concerned those who phone taxi, pizza, chinese or ambulance without good reason are idiots and don't deserve a service.

The €2 is there partly to charge somebody for the additional service of ordering a cab as opposed to going out and hailing from the street and to part compensate a driver for the time traveling to the pick up. The charge isn't really any deterrent from using or not using a taxi.

In the case of "bogies", they simply get a laugh from ringing a cab and it going away having wasted it's time; all one has to do is not answer the door and they get away with it. A call out could be €200 and it will still happen. My cousin in law ran a pizza shop and had to put up with prank orders as well but he was able to write off some of the costs, or occasionally sell the order if a similar one came in at the right time; we don't have that luxury on the road.

Spook_ie

PRND wrote: »

If I was a drunk, student or prankster and had no intention of paying anything at all, never mind what is on the meter then what is sticking on ?2 onto the meter going to do to prevent this?

Spook. Are you saying that this ?2 charge is to prevent people who aren't going to get in from ordering taxis? And abolishing it would prevent such people from doing so?

As far as I'm concerned those who phone taxi, pizza, chinese or ambulance without good reason are idiots and don't deserve a service.

Well firstly you wouldn't be putting €2 on the meter for a non existant customer as the meter isn't started until you get the customer, the €2 covers some of the costs incurred in driving x distance to collect the customer from the door ( saving them the bother of waiting in the street to hail a passing taxi ) I was refering to the number of nonexistant bookings made by people for the fun of it, regardless of

With there being not enough customers for taxis, might it make sense to scrap the callout charge? The driver is guaranteed to get a fare once he gets out there

There is no guarantee that there is a fare when you get there

PRND

I don't see anywhere this thread can go then.

The taxi drivers on here say there are too many taxis or not enough customers.

I've suggested lowering fares at certain times or scrapping the callout charge to make taxis more attractive to other forms of transport. This has been dismissed, principally as taxi drivers think it is a step backwards.

I have suggested that taxi drivers be forced to operate better cars as running an old one without a loan puts someone at a financial advantage. I was told that this is nonsense.

I suggested that if the entry fee be increased that this be extended to the current taxi driving population which would make those who are not committed leave. This also was dismissed, principally because the posters on here do not want to pay anything extra.

So the situation is that the taxi drivers claim there is a problem. Those on here think there should be nothing done about it.

It's as well there is a taxi regulator as if it was left to the drivers, there would never be any change.

PRND

I don't see anywhere this thread can go then.

The taxi drivers on here say there are too many taxis or not enough customers.

I've suggested lowering fares at certain times or scrapping the callout charge to make taxis more attractive to other forms of transport. This has been dismissed, principally as taxi drivers think it is a step backwards.

I have suggested that taxi drivers be forced to operate better cars as running an old one without a loan puts someone at a financial advantage. I was told that this is nonsense. I also said better cars may make taxis more attractive.

I suggested that if the entry fee be increased that this be extended to the current taxi driving population which would make those who are not committed leave. This also was dismissed, principally because the posters on here do not want to pay anything extra.

So the situation is that the taxi drivers claim there is a problem. Those on here think there should be nothing done about it.

It's as well there is a taxi regulator as if it was left to the drivers, there would never be any change.

AlekSmart

Not being involved in the Taxi business myself,I still feel that Spook,Ham`n egger,Hyde Road and other`s who ARE from the trade and posting here are getting an undeserved handbagging from certain others....

Theres little doubt but that the supposed benefits of Taxi deregulation have been diluted by the inevitable consequences of the manner in which that process was handled.

In classic Irish Public Administration mode we had a far reaching and half thought process introduced with a sense of urgency which owed far more to the political careers of a handful than the public transport needs of the majority.

Who remembers Bobby Molloy now....?

Similarly with the Bus and Rail arena,when for several years when the country DID have the available cash resources to radically improve matters we were left to the mercies of well-meaning buffoons like "Mammy" O Rourke and Seamus Brennan whose entire Ministerial ethos was driven by the presence of Media Microphones or Cameras.

Most far reaching and important changes to any of the basic systems are at the lower levels which,for example would see ALL Dublin Taxi`s being wheelchair accessible or ALL Dublin City Bus stops being humanly accessible

...instead we had madcap stuff like Mrs O Rourkes Bathtime telephone call which left Dublins Luas system all afloat on an uncertain sea...or Seamus Brennans "I`ll privatize 25% of Dublin Bus within 6 months" which set the tone for years of contention and disagreement over changes which could and were about to occur with consent and co-operation.

It`s not the Taxi or Busdrivers who are the blameworthy indivduals here as both sets of folks are struggling to embrace what we are told are decisions taken by some of the best qualified professionals in the world.

As we all watch the increasingly grotesque posturing by Mr Aherne and others in response to the discovery of their long running and institutionalized "skimming" operations we cannot therefore be surprised at the lack of intelligence involved in what we have to operate.

As an indication of this one could obseerve the evidence being given to the Dail Committee on Transport who recently had the Integrated Ticketing Project people in to wax lyrical on that particular long running saga.

Nowhere in the presentation is there any indication of the ITP having had ANY discussion with the Office of Taxi Regulation in relation to allowing the TAXI Service to come on-board this electronic payment method....?

No doubt some months AFTER the ITP system goes live we shall have an M50 Upgrade scenario to back-flip the entire system to embrace it....

Progerss.....dripping slowly and still controlled by individuals who have largely ended up where they are due to their questionable competence rather than their achievements........Odd how our Governing classes have never embraced resignation as a response to being caught out or proven otherwise incompetent...they leave that to the Brits it seems..!!!!

Ham'nd'egger

PRND wrote: »

I don't see anywhere this thread can go then.

The taxi drivers on here say there are too many taxis or not enough customers.

I've suggested lowering fares at certain times or scrapping the callout charge to make taxis more attractive to other forms of transport. This has been dismissed, principally as taxi drivers think it is a step backwards.

I have suggested that taxi drivers be forced to operate better cars as running an old one without a loan puts someone at a financial advantage. I was told that this is nonsense. I also said better cars may make taxis more attractive.

I suggested that if the entry fee be increased that this be extended to the current taxi driving population which would make those who are not committed leave. This also was dismissed, principally because the posters on here do not want to pay anything extra.

So the situation is that the taxi drivers claim there is a problem. Those on here think there should be nothing done about it.

It's as well there is a taxi regulator as if it was left to the drivers, there would never be any change.

1) You suggested raising plate prices. Few drivers on the road disagree with this for many reasons. Your mistake was to retro charge previous holders for purchasing an asset they paid the going rate for; not impossible but it would be some exercise to implement it and it would penalize many for a mistake that they did not make.

2) You suggest lowering fares based on an ideal that this would increase use overall; this was dismissed by 4 people who work in the trade as it had no guarantee of working and increasing income; it would also risk encouraging yet more entrants into the market and forcing others out. While an idea such as this can work in retail, production markets, the taxi market isn't that sort of an economic model. It will have one cast iron affect; less cash per mile worked and zero proof that it will increase income overall.

3) You actually questioned drivers having better quality cars on economic reasons and suggest they run older ones (Mr Merc and Mr Ford, anybody?).

4) There is few problems here; the market is too easy to enter and there is not enough customers to satisfy or sustain them. No training is needed other than a ful B license and a PSV badge. If the barriers to entry was raised, then it would be better for us all, you and me.

lost marbles

AlekSmart wrote: »

Not being involved in the Taxi business myself,I still feel that Spook,Ham`n egger,Hyde Road and other`s who ARE from the trade and posting here are getting an undeserved handbagging from certain others....

Theres little doubt but that the supposed benefits of Taxi deregulation have been diluted by the inevitable consequences of the manner in which that process was handled.

In classic Irish Public Administration mode we had a far reaching and half thought process introduced with a sense of urgency which owed far more to the political careers of a handful than the public transport needs of the majority.

Who remembers Bobby Molloy now....?

Similarly with the Bus and Rail arena,when for several years when the country DID have the available cash resources to radically improve matters we were left to the mercies of well-meaning buffoons like "Mammy" O Rourke and Seamus Brennan whose entire Ministerial ethos was driven by the presence of Media Microphones or Cameras.

Most far reaching and important changes to any of the basic systems are at the lower levels which,for example would see ALL Dublin Taxi`s being wheelchair accessible or ALL Dublin City Bus stops being humanly accessible

...instead we had madcap stuff like Mrs O Rourkes Bathtime telephone call which left Dublins Luas system all afloat on an uncertain sea...or Seamus Brennans "I`ll privatize 25% of Dublin Bus within 6 months" which set the tone for years of contention and disagreement over changes which could and were about to occur with consent and co-operation.

It`s not the Taxi or Busdrivers who are the blameworthy indivduals here as both sets of folks are struggling to embrace what we are told are decisions taken by some of the best qualified professionals in the world.

As we all watch the increasingly grotesque posturing by Mr Aherne and others in response to the discovery of their long running and institutionalized "skimming" operations we cannot therefore be surprised at the lack of intelligence involved in what we have to operate.

As an indication of this one could obseerve the evidence being given to the Dail Committee on Transport who recently had the Integrated Ticketing Project people in to wax lyrical on that particular long running saga.

Nowhere in the presentation is there any indication of the ITP having had ANY discussion with the Office of Taxi Regulation in relation to allowing the TAXI Service to come on-board this electronic payment method....?

No doubt some months AFTER the ITP system goes live we shall have an M50 Upgrade scenario to back-flip the entire system to embrace it....

Progerss.....dripping slowly and still controlled by individuals who have largely ended up where they are due to their questionable competence rather than their achievements........Odd how our Governing classes have never embraced resignation as a response to being caught out or proven otherwise incompetent...they leave that to the Brits it seems..!!!!

at last :)a person who has open eyes and sees the root of the problems
thank you for the input

HydeRoad

PRND wrote: »

So the situation is that the taxi drivers claim there is a problem. Those on here think there should be nothing done about it.

It's as well there is a taxi regulator as if it was left to the drivers, there would never be any change.

PRND, there is a constant stream of correspondance between the National Taxi Drivers Union and the Regulator's office, pleading for all these issues to be looked at. Largely, the major issues are pawned off as the responsibility of the Carriage Office (driver licensing) or the relevant Council authorities (taxi ranks).

Instead, we get periodical notices in the post telling us we will have to have swivel seats in the front of our cars, or yellow painted door handles, a load of nonsense. Get the taxi numbers sorted out, get drivers properly assessed, get proper rank allocation. They are the issues.

PRND, every post I make tries to explain the problems, in the most accessible english I can manage, and pleads for change. How can you insult me then by saying I think nothing should be done about things? I'll hand this thread over to the Mods, and have nothing more to do with it.

PRND

The numbers issue exists already. If there are too many taxis at present then stopping the issue of licenses will do nothing.

You can't withdraw the licenses from the last 3,000 entrants.

There are going to have to be changes and stopping the issue of licenses is too late.

Spook_ie

PRND wrote: »

The numbers issue exists already. If there are too many taxis at present then stopping the issue of licenses will do nothing.

You can't withdraw the licenses from the last 3,000 entrants.

There are going to have to be changes and stopping the issue of licenses is too late.

There is an easy way to deal with the majority of problems cited here.

The TR buys back all the licenses issued at the current market rate.
The TR leases the plates back to the previous owners for x euro
The TR removes from use excess plates, via natural wastage/retirement etc.
The TR increases the availability of taxi plates if demand increases
The TR only leases plates to those prepared to work as full time taxi drivers
The TR can check the drivers credentials before leasing out a plate to them
The present day drivers use the money from the plates as deposits on newer cars or swivel seats or whatever

The main problem would be that they would need to regulate the numbers on a county by county basis which the TR would seem incapable of doing as they don't know which taxi number operates in which area...but it's not insurmountable.

meathstevie

Spook, you're after hitting on a few things there. For starters it wouldn't be a bad idea capping the numbers as they are now. There's more than enough service providers out there. I'm one of them. But do you honestly think the government is going to pass up a couple of 100000 Euro coming in the kitty every week as there is now with the ever growing number of licences ?

Anyway, a few other points you made I want to add to.

1. Full time drivers only. As things stand at the moment when you apply for a PSV licence you sign a document stating that you will be available to the public for 40 hours every week. Knowingly misrepresenting facts on this document is a punishable offence so why are no part-time taxi drivers prosecuted under the corresponding legislation ?

2. TR checking credentials : this is allready done when you apply for a PSV licence. Same sort of vetting that would be done for let's say childcare workers, owners of licenced firearms etc. The problem isn't obtaining a licence. The problem is enforcement i.e. verification of driver's identity on the street. I for one am convinced that not every taxi on the road is driven by a properly licenced driver at all times.

3. You're idea of a buy back option isn't a bad one. Look at it as some sort of a redundancy payment. Plate bought back...plate scrapped.

Victor

The liberalisation was very badly handled. The incentive to have larger / wheelchair accessible vehicles is gone. If a higher licence fee was introduced (€25,000?) initially, it would ahve meant thing could have been expanded in a more sustainable manner. Of course, I would have that €25,000 invested back into the industry.

Spook_ie wrote: »

The TR only leases plates to those prepared to work as full time taxi drivers.

Are there enough people out there who want to work full time to provide an adequate service at peak times.

Almost every industry, tranport included needs flexibilty from part-time workers to cover peak periods.

If you put all your drivers on Saturday night, there are no taxis to take granny to mass or people to the airport on Sunday morning.

Ham'nd'egger

Victor wrote: »

The liberalisation was very badly handled. The incentive to have larger / wheelchair accessible vehicles is gone. If a higher licence fee was introduced (€25,000?) initially, it would ahve meant thing could have been expanded in a more sustainable manner. Of course, I would have that €25,000 invested back into the industry.

Are there enough people out there who want to work full time to provide an adequate service at peak times.

Almost every industry, tranport included needs flexibilty from part-time workers to cover peak periods.

If you put all your drivers on Saturday night, there are no taxis to take granny to mass or people to the airport on Sunday morning.

Victor, back in the so called bad old days, most of the 2,700 taxis in Dublin were rented out to "cosy's" or operated by other drivers, partly from the cost of plates and the ability of this high cost to ensure an income from a valuable asset. The net effect of this was that almost all of the city's taxi's would be operated for 100+ hours a week; thus giving a constant level of coverage of circa 5,000 cabs working on a one man operated basis; similar to say Dublin Bus having drivers changing en route and keeping a bus out from dawn to dusk and making maximum return from it.

In the 2 years after de-regulation/liberalisation of taxi plates, those who rented a cab simply went out and bought their own cabs/plates; the hackney's doing likewise. When hackney drivers took up plates, we were approaching the 9,000 mark. Today, while there is few hackneys left in the city, we are not too far away from 18,000 taxis; I'd personally expect it by late 2009.

Certainly, there will never be enough taxi's for Friday and Saturday night from 10PM until 4AM. At these times, you should expect to take in about €35 per hour. Should you work these 12 hours, at this rate you take in €400 a week. As mentioned early on in the thread, this figure would just about cover rents/fuel/loans/pension etc. The issue with the part timer drivers comes in here.

At worst to them, they work to the same business model as a full time driver viz a viz operating costs. As it is, most of them operate with the luxury of a second income to pay their expenses into the trade so their overheads are usually far lower. They then operate for the same fares and passenger base as the full time drivers, especially in the evenings. If the holiday has to be paid for, school books etc, they can chip in some evenings during the week, or the weekend. They don't feel the pinch as much as a full time driver as the world won't collapse on them; they don't have to worry about the dead January or September. If a part time staff member works in a bar, it is in the evening and weekend nights; he doesn't open a part time pub to do it, instead chipping in at the GAA club or wherever it may be.

I agree that there is very much a role for part time drivers to chip in, but for 10-15 crunch hours a week. It sounds little, but if part time drivers took 10% of fares on say Wednesday nights's, that makes a big difference to those who work full time. If it cut a drivers take in by €25, it's a lot to a driver especially when his expenses stay constant but would a part timer go out to work for €25 for a night?

Occam

While its easy to feel sympathy for taxi drivers who now make less money than they used to one must rember that the abundance of drivers at the moment has three effects :

1. Provides a living for thousands of new drivers
2. Reduces passenger waiting times
3. Reduces average driver wages

If another artificial limit on the number of plates were reintroduced, we'd just be back to the days of people queing for hours for taxis again, with thousands more people on the dole.

Margins have been reduced, however the taxi business is still profitable for operators. Given the thousands of jobs that have been created and the improvement in customer service, it would be moronic to interfere with the market at the moment.

PRND

He's got a point. As I said before, the people are in the job already. Can't get rid of them now. Better to make taxis more popular.

Saw a Merc S Class taxi this morning on Molesworth Street. S320. Number plate 08 D 5 320. Didn't seem to be doing limo work. Passenger in the front, meter running, driver wearing a bomber jacket.

Now I know that taxis like this are unlikely anywhere in the world but this man, limo or not, is working as a taxi driver at times and obviously doing very well at it.

Spook_ie

PRND wrote: »

He's got a point. As I said before, the people are in the job already. Can't get rid of them now. Better to make taxis more popular.

Saw a Merc S Class taxi this morning on Molesworth Street. S320. Number plate 08 D 5 320. Didn't seem to be doing limo work. Passenger in the front, meter running, driver wearing a bomber jacket.

Now I know that taxis like this are unlikely anywhere in the world but this man, limo or not, is working as a taxi driver at times and obviously doing very well at it.

No what you will proably find is that the taxi belongs to someone doing the same as O'Leary did, plate up a car, employ a driver and use the buslanes, you would have no chance of hailing it down.

If someone knows definately for sure and it is a taxi, then I suggest you tell the driver to write a book on how he affords it. I'd be 1st in the queue....

HydeRoad

Occam, nobody wants to 'be back to the days of people queuing for hours for taxis again, with thousands more people on the dole.' All we look for is the right balance, not an extreme of one thing or the other. Don't post nonsense.

1 hour 40 minutes on the rank at Heuston this afternoon. Got a €12 fare to Marino. Then drove back into the city, circled around for another hour, and got nothing else. That's €4 an hour.

Please someone explain to me how that is 'profitable.'

Friday and Saturday night are 'profitable.' It's a pity that comes to a combined total of eight hours 'profitable' work over those two days, and the entire week.

I don't want to be part of this debate. I'm happy doing my own thing. I just can't sit back and ignore people posting uncontested rubbish.