The Taxi Industry and how ridiculous it has gotten, a drivers view..

Ham'nd'egger

PRND wrote: »

Well I'd say I earn less than your average taxi driver but I'd think many people are in a similar boat.

Maybe it's the failings of taxi drivers to know their customer has led to this "ridiculous" situation.

How much do you earn, and how much do you think the average taxi driver earns, seeing as you like to play perceptions and blind assumptions? I'd say your spoon is cast from a better silver than mine

Ham'nd'egger

PRND wrote: »

I have no idea how much a full time driver earns. ?1,500 gross maybe? ?300 a day, 5 days a week?

Not having to pay tax at the same rate as everyone else is like an income in itself.

So taxi drivers have a different rate of tax, do we? I'll go ring my accountant and let her know that :rolleyes: It's well apparent you don't have a clue about what you are talking about, do you?

PRND

I earn ?27k per year.

And let me ask this question. How much does it cost for a taxi driver to make the monthly loan repayment on a nice 1 year old Merc?

Ham'nd'egger

PRND wrote: »

I earn ?27k per year.

And let me ask this question. How much does it cost for a taxi driver to make the monthly loan repayment on a nice 1 year old Merc?

I don't know and I don't care.

All I care about is paying the €494.66 a month on my car loan to give passengers a credible car, €80 radio week, €60 plate repayment, €1500 of insurance, €2k in servicing and general car repairs/tyres, €1,500 on insurance, €100 a week on fuel/car washes, €240 per month in pension payments etc. Add that up and that is how much I personally have to earn before I personally make €1 to live. I am not pouting the béal bocht, just being honest here; these are all real life bills all drivers face; Spook will attest to these figures, give or take.

PRND

I was just wondering the difference in the car loan ALONE on a 1 yr old Merc and a 10 year old Ford irrespective of petrol, insurance and the rest.

There are taxis out there being used as both. Surely the difference between the 2 is pure profit for the Ford boy?

Anyway, it's you who bought money up, saying what you'd do in my situation. I have a good time, live in a nice gaff, go out on the weekends and you put yourself above me.

Anyway,I thought you'd be interested to know my opinion in any case. There are plenty like me, earning the same amount, similar age, living in rented accom, enjoy a drink at the weekend. All of whom avoid taxis wherever possible. I think you need to get more people in the car instead of sitting on the rank. This morning there were about 15 taxis on the rank at the green. Nothing moving yet stepping off the Luas there were loads waiting to get in.

How do you get them off the Luas and into the taxi?

HydeRoad

I wouldn't even dream of a €494 a month car loan at the moment. My car is seven years old and due for renewal.

Sitting in the rank at Heuston, in a line of about 50 cars, for an hour and a quarter, then getting a €10.80 fare to Ashtown, and then circling the city for another two hours, from Finglas to Phibsborough to Dorset Street to O'Connell Street, then five laps of Ballsbridge/Donnybrook, with NO rank space anywhere, before driving home, won't pay any such bill.

I don't set the fares. I'd love to give the customer value for money. But these decisions are made in warm offices high above street level, including notions that 79 taxi ranks will cater for 16,000 taxis if you fudge the figures a bit.

I cannot replace my car at all this year until such time as I see a sign that I will earn it back, let alone pay my mortgage and living. I don't have €10,000 buried in a hole in the garden. And I don't have builder friends in Manchester either.

Ham'nd'egger

HydeRoad wrote: »

I wouldn't even dream of a €494 a month car loan at the moment. My car is seven years old and due for renewal.

Sitting in the rank at Heuston, in a line of about 50 cars, for an hour and a quarter, then getting a €10.80 fare to Ashtown, and then circling the city for another two hours, from Finglas to Phibsborough to Dorset Street to O'Connell Street, then five laps of Ballsbridge/Donnybrook, with NO rank space anywhere, before driving home, won't pay any such bill.

I don't set the fares. I'd love to give the customer value for money. But these decisions are made in warm offices high above street level, including notions that 79 taxi ranks will cater for 16,000 taxis if you fudge the figures a bit.

I cannot replace my car at all this year until such time as I see a sign that I will earn it back, let alone pay my mortgage and living. I don't have €10,000 buried in a hole in the garden. And I don't have builder friends in Manchester either.

Hyde, with the 9 year rule coming into effect in the summer, it is a case of either buy new and hope to get up to 9 years out of the car, get a 3/4/5/6 year car and hope it holds up, or get an 7-8 year old car and run it through suitability every year or so and pay to take your meter and sign out every year. Of course, doing so saves you in car costs but you lose out in time off to road between changing car, swings and roundabouts. New cars costs more but you should get longer life from them. Regardless, you will find you probably will be coughing up more to pay off your vehicle. That is, if it's worthwhile to do so, as you say.

Ham'nd'egger

PRND wrote: »

I was just wondering the difference in the car loan ALONE on a 1 yr old Merc and a 10 year old Ford irrespective of petrol, insurance and the rest.

There are taxis out there being used as both. Surely the difference between the 2 is pure profit for the Ford boy?

Anyway, it's you who bought money up, saying what you'd do in my situation. I have a good time, live in a nice gaff, go out on the weekends and you put yourself above me.

Anyway,I thought you'd be interested to know my opinion in any case. There are plenty like me, earning the same amount, similar age, living in rented accom, enjoy a drink at the weekend. All of whom avoid taxis wherever possible. I think you need to get more people in the car instead of sitting on the rank. This morning there were about 15 taxis on the rank at the green. Nothing moving yet stepping off the Luas there were loads waiting to get in.

How do you get them off the Luas and into the taxi?

Guy in a Merc may have come into a few bob or he could do a lot of limo work or have come from that side of the industry; there are many who do both trades in the one car. It goes without saying guy in a Ford should either makes more money in the same hours as Merc man or works less time to earn the same as his overheads are lower. Thing is, will people give him €80+ per hour as they may do with Merc man for limo work, weddings and VIPs? Doubtful, I am sure you will agree.

As for your opinion, at this stage it isn't worth all that much as it isn't based on any reasonable facts or knowledge, just pure opinion. The only thing I know from you is that you think taxis are too expensive. If that is what you feel, drop a line to the Regulator and make your case; I somehow can't see her office cutting fares on your "advice" anytime soon

PRND

Hamndegger wrote: »

Guy in a Merc may have come into a few bob or he could do a lot of limo work or have come from that side of the industry; there are many who do both trades in the one car. It goes without saying guy in a Ford should either makes more money in the same hours as Merc man or works less time to earn the same as his overheads are lower. Thing is, will people give him €80+ per hour as they may do with Merc man for limo work, weddings and VIPs? Doubtful, I am sure you will agree.

As for your opinion, at this stage it isn't worth all that much as it isn't based on any reasonable facts or knowledge, just pure opinion. The only thing I know from you is that you think taxis are too expensive. If that is what you feel, drop a line to the Regulator and make your case; I somehow can't see her office cutting fares on your "advice" anytime soon

Same thing holds true for a brand new '08 Ford and a 1998 one.

Or your €500 p.m. car and a 1998 one. €500 p.m. is €6k p.a.

You could save 6k by driving a banger and still your fare would be the same.

HydeRoad

PRND, the difference in value between my car and a new Merc is not 'profit' to me. I don't even earn back the value of my seven year old car. I am mortified driving an old car. I would LOVE a new car. I looked at importing a four year old Merc from the North. The VRT to Mr. Cowan would be €8,000! I am not even in the ballpark of earning that type of money. My earnings have been slashed by half or more since I started three years ago.

How can I speculate €500 a month on a car when I don't even know if I can cover my monthly house mortgage? I know Dublin like the back of my hand. I could draw a map of Dublin on the back of a napkin. I look after my customers well. But if I drop out, because I cannot make ends meet, there's plenty of guys will fill my vacancy, who don't know their own street address, whose brothers and cousins did the test for them.

Spook_ie

PRND wrote: »

All the customer wants is value. Start providing that either by collective driver behaviour or regulator innovation and there will not be so many cars sitting on ranks, doing nothing. I think the reduction of fares is a step in the right direction in this regard. Better trained drivers is another. Better cars is a third. The great travelling public WANT to take more taxis. The taxi drivers WANT to drive more fares. Nevertheless the commuter trains, trams, buses are crowded beyond safe levels and taxis are queued round the corner on ranks.

The great traveling public don't want to take taxis, they ( the majority ) want to be able to get home while still having a skin full, if the difference between taking the nightlink/luas and a taxi is them having to drink less then the nitelink/luas win everytime...

Also the travelling pubic want to all have their travelling at the same time, so for 2-3 hours on Saturday night the taxi drivers are happy(ish) but you aren't going to pay mortgages and car loans on the back of 2-3 hours work. What about the rest of the week, even if you cut the fares by 50% people wouldn't use the taxis because they are already where they want to be, either at home or already in the pub drinking until the mass exodus.

Spook_ie

PRND wrote: »

I have no idea how much a full time driver earns. ?1,500 gross maybe? ?300 a day, 5 days a week?

Not having to pay tax at the same rate as everyone else is like an income in itself.

Why are you talking Gross, at the end of the day its the Nett figure that matters.

Someone could be earning €65,000 gross running a PC company for 40 hours a week for 52 weeks (2080 hours), but if the nett figure is only €30000 then they would be earning a spendable wage of only €14.42 an hour.

Also the taxrate for a self employed person is the same as anyone else, except we don't get the PAYE credit (unless you're a part time taxi driver of course!!)

Spook_ie

PRND wrote: »

I earn ?27k per year.

And let me ask this question. How much does it cost for a taxi driver to make the monthly loan repayment on a nice 1 year old Merc?

Well, seeing as we don't get any preferential treatment from the banks if you went after this motor ( would be a nice taxi for people to puke in on a Saturday night! )

http://www.cbg.ie/Cardetail.aspx?CBGID=850638&ID=1825506

It would cost €1173.64 per calendar month over 5 years with BoI or €14083 a year
Now insurance on that is over €1000 ( not as a taxi ) so as a taxi would likely be €3000 or more

Now add to your outgoings the fuel, my Toyota at the moment is using about €130 per week so lets say €160 (as it's a bigger motor) or (50x160) €8000 per year (allowing for the fact that we do like to have a break sometimes with the family.)


So the basic costs are €25083 per year, ( allowing for the two weeks unpaid holiday with the family gives a running cost of 25083/50 or €501.66 per week ( and not even a cent spent on Maintainence/Licensing/Road Tax/Income Tax/PRSI/Pension Provision/Sickness Provision etc. )

PRND

But there are people running those cars of that age as taxis. So would it not be wise to assume that the monthly profit of someone in an older car with the loan paid off as the ?1,300 repayment you mention plus whatever the guy in the Merc is making as profit?

meathstevie

Whoever says that taxi's aren't good value needs their head checked. A couple of examples.

Air Coach for 7 people from let's say Leeson Street to the airport : 49 Euro, your average taxi fare for the same 7 people less than 35 Euro. Nitelink to Swords from D'Olier Street/Westmoreland Street for 4 people 24 Euro, taxi fare : about the same. Patton Flier from Dalkey to the airport : 49 Euro for 7 people, taxi about the same.

On the other hand comparing the bus or Luas with a taxi is like comparing mince with steak. One only collects at set locations at set times with serious gaps in the service schedule during the night( if it shows up at all that is ) the other collects you from where you want it to collect you and drops you exactly where you want to be with virtually 24/7 availibility.

Ham'nd'egger

PRND wrote: »

But there are people running those cars of that age as taxis. So would it not be wise to assume that the monthly profit of someone in an older car with the loan paid off as the ?1,300 repayment you mention plus whatever the guy in the Merc is making as profit?

You really don't get it, do you?

It is NOT profit, it is one less expense to pay. Yes, it is easier when your expenses are down but it either means you work less to earn a similar amount or you work the same time to earn a little more. Even so, in time you come to the same bridge of car loan and back to higher expenses.

Taxis in "flash" cars are very few and far between; these cars may be used for limo work or executive clients. Equally, a 4/5 year old high end Merc/Lexus may set you back the same price as a new Avensis (€30k) or a Skoda (€24k+).

PRND

2 drivers working the same hours. One has a brand new Octavia, the other a 10 year old Ford. Is the difference in the cost not profit? At the end of the week, Mr Octavia takes away all his expenses, including ?250 car payment and has ?1k profit. Mr Ford takes away all his expenses and as he has no car payment his profit is ?1250. Ergo the difference between the two is profit.

Spook_ie

PRND wrote: »

2 drivers working the same hours. One has a brand new Octavia, the other a 10 year old Ford. Is the difference in the cost not profit? At the end of the week, Mr Octavia takes away all his expenses, including ?250 car payment and has ?1k profit. Mr Ford takes away all his expenses and as he has no car payment his profit is ?1250. Ergo the difference between the two is profit.

So you want Mr.Ford to up his outgoings to the bank, so that they make more profits and Mr.Ford has to work more just to stay still...

I name you as a Banker of the 1st order, damn I wish my W key worked all the time......

Would it not be better if you paid heed to all the arguments instead of nailing yourself to the cross of " no car repayment, therefore he can afford a new car loan"


BTW Mr Fords "profit" wouldn't be an extra 250, it would only be some 187.50 as there would be income tax and PRSI to be paid on it, but then I forgot Taxi drivers pay a different rate.....

Victor

Spook_ie wrote: »

BTW Mr Fords "profit" wouldn't be an extra 250, it would only be some 187.50 as there would be income tax and PRSI to be paid on it, but then I forgot Taxi drivers pay a different rate.....

Can people knock it off about the tax?

Spook_ie

Victor wrote: »

Can people knock it off about the tax?

Will do, but Please sir, he started it.....

PRND

Calling me a w@nker is hardly a pleasant think to do. I was just responding to the posts on here based on my opinion.

Why don't you just come out and say it instead of your clever way, stating your w key is broken?

lost marbles

with due respect pnrd you hav,nt got a clue the way the taxi industry works .i reckon if a taxi driver posted here that sh1te was blue you,d refute the post by calling it pink .if as you say there is profit to be made driving a taxi and that you earn less than most drivers .why not try the job out for yourself take that career change you seem to know all about

PRND

I don't say I know all about it. I specifically said I have no idea how much a taxi driver earns. All I've been saying is that it is plain to see that there are alot of taxis sitting idle. These taxis need to be active instead of sitting idle. How to tempt people out of them? Put the prices down. I was just thinking that if someone had the meter running for twice as long at a lower rate then it would be more profitable. Secondly if it is so tough to earn money taxiing then why drive an expensive car.

Nobody has given a proper response to the first question. The only person to give a response to the second question is HydePark. All I am getting is personal abuse, being called a wanker.

Would you take on board my questions and respond?

the_syco

PRND wrote: »

Would you take on board my questions and respond?

Actually, they have, multiple times, answered your questions, but each time, you pull something out of the air such as "some mercs are taxi's":rolleyes::mad:

HydeRoad

PRND wrote: »

I have no idea how much a full time driver earns. ?1,500 gross maybe? ?300 a day, 5 days a week?

Not having to pay tax at the same rate as everyone else is like an income in itself.

PRND, I respect the debate you are bringing up. But it's hard to take you seriously, based on statements like the above.

Three years ago, when I first started, I could earn €300 on a Friday, and €300 on a Saturday, by working from 4pm to 4am each night, taking two breaks. €200 of that was earned between 12am and 4am. Subtract 10% for fuel. That was €540 for two days work. Three years ago. Maybe that was too much, maybe it wasn't. At least with that money, and €100 or so a day for three other weekdays, you could speculate on a decent car, AND pay the mortgage and live. I bought a large four year old car on the strength of that.

Jump forward three years, and there are twice or three times as many taxis, with 200 more in Dublin every week! My earnings have HALVED, or worse. To the point where I went out one busy Friday night, and earned just €120, on my busiest night of the week. At one stage, there were about thirty taxis at the traffic lights in Patrick Street, all with their yellow lights on. Can you imagine the mayhem when a punter raises their arm?

Taxi drivers today are averaging €80 a day, excluding a few hours at the weekend when the pubs close. Your speculation of €300 is wildly off the scale. That's roughly ten euro an hour, in a job where you have to provide your own good car, pay exorbitant insurance, pay rising fuel costs, have no sick/pension/holiday entitlements, and where the banks don't want to know you. That's what I'm earning, and there's nothing I can do short of working 60 or 70 hours a week, which I refuse to do.

The 07 Mercs you see with taxi plates, are guys with full time jobs, doing taxi driving on the side, or else guys in the job years, with a few plates rented out, bringing in extra income. Or else older guys, with their families grown up and their mortgages long since paid, who are just working to pay for a few holidays in France.

I want to work in this job. I like dealing with the public. But it's a complete waste of time if I am just driving round in circles all day, because there's no rank to pull in onto, and there are too many cars vying for the few people out there who want to use them. Cutting fares in half won't double the business, probably only bring in 10%-20% more. And fuel and car costs won't halve.

PRND

Yes, and several years ago, would ir be fair to assume that the metered rates were lower than today?

And if so, were you earning more money because you were more busy than you are today?

What I am saying is if the fares were reduced, taxis would seem more attractive to the public and therefore become more busy.

There is no need to reduce fares when it is busiest and demand is highest, keep it as it is or even increase it on a Friday and Saturday night. But what about 8.30 on a Wednesday morning? Nobody I know sees a taxi as a viable ongoing method of travel to work. Why not? As I said before, people are cramming on to buses, Luas, trains while at the St. Stephen's Green rank at 8.30 cars are queued up both sides.

allybhoy

Sorry bout this dudes, ive read the first page and breezed through the rest so excuse me if this has been said before. But, I used to live in south west dublin, Citywest/Saggart to be exact, and have often found myself in and around town on ranks where all the cabs refuse to go "that far away bud". In fact I was at the rank roughly 2 weeks ago on Aston Quay, and there was 6 cars on the rank (all irish drivers) and not 1 of them would take us. In the end I had to flag down a cab (non national) who didnt stop at the rank. And this happens all the time.IMO taxi drivers cant be doing that bad if they are able to turn away business on a regular basis.

mikemac

What you could do is hop into the cab first before telling them your destination.
And then if they refuse and ignore the 30km rule ask them to drive to the nearest garda station so the two of you can ask there.

Extreme solution but it'll work.

If the driver won't open the door until you tell them where you are going then I'm not sure what you can do.
I've read here that people going to Swords from Dublin Airport and don't get taken or get shouted at.

HydeRoad

Allybhoy and micmclo bring up a different issue, that of the old long term taxi drivers, who would have us back in the days when there were 2,000 taxi plates, full stop, and everyone used taxis to suit the taxi drivers, not the customer. The best thing that came out of deregulation was that these guys were rapidly outnumbered. There's still lots of them around, but they ARE in the minority.

I would water at the mouth if I got a fare to Citywest, with the way business is now. Granted, I probably wouldn't get a fare back, but at least at night I might get back to the city in 20 or 25 minutes. The taxi regulator brought in a rule whereby a Dublin taxi driver cannot refuse a fare within a reasonable distance. Unfortunately you might have to stand your ground with a few of the awkward guys, but they are only bullies if you let them bully you. That's not much help to a single girl trying to get home late at night, but it is the rule now. There's a number on the roof of the taxi. Take it and report them, and maybe there'll be one less taxi to compete with the decent, co-operative guys.

PRND, you are a wonder; three years ago fares were lower. Slightly lower. The small fare increase was nothing compared to the increase in the cost of living, the cost of fuel, the cost of everything. My mortgage repayments have almost doubled in those three years. Fuel has gone up 20% or 30%. Passenger numbers have not dropped because of the fare increase. If anything, they have gone up because of the population increase. But the number of taxis has shot up out of all proportion.

200 extra taxis in Dublin every week!

THAT'S why my business has dropped. It was great to increase taxi numbers, but it's gone mad now. We've replaced one unsustainable situation with another, equally unsustainable and worse situation.

PRND

Well if lowering fares won't increase journeys in taxis then what will?

A person sleeps in for work. He can either get a taxi to work or else phone in and tell them he'll be late. How do you make him do the former?

Why is the Luas and the 46A and the DART stretched to capacity in the morning when the taxi ranks are full of cars moving nowhere? How do you get them off the public transport and into taxis?

Your income has dropped due to a reduction of passengers per taxi or conversely an increase of taxis per passenger. By making taxis more attractive this will change.

So how would you get more people into taxis?