Hilux, Navara, Isuzu D-Max or L200

coolbeans

l'd just like to say that i'm against large 4x4s as an accessory i.e. if you don't need one in the first place for your job, (serious) hobby or whatever.
Now that's out of the way I'd like to hear a few informed opinions on what the best double cab pick-up is for Irish conditions.
My father, a farmer who needs genuine off-road ability, unfaltering reliability and comfort, is replacing his utterly undependable ssangyong/daewoo musso with something that's actually up to the job. Basically I've been sent out on a fact finding mission so it's straight to boards I go. This car must last at least ten years with no significant problems and be able to tow several tonnes
I know a lot of you will say Hilux immediately after seeing that episode of Top Gear but is the latest model as good? How about the others listed? Opinions please?

PaulieC

I would imagine that a D_Max is a little too bling for traipsing aroung fields. Any of the other three are fine - all pretty similar in price/ability, so it's really up to brand preference I guess

ianobrien

Have heard horror stories of Mitsubishi's breaking cranks due to dual mass flywheel failure. Don't know if this is on the L200 or just cars.

I'd go for the Hilux. The brother has one at work that's got 500,000km on the clock. It's driven by pesant Indian farmers who have never sat in a car, never mind drive! He works out in the Middle East in the desert, and it's all toyota over there, with the odd nissan thrown in.

zing

double cab landrover defender worth adding to the list ? Might not have the creature comforts of the others but should take some amount of abuse.

moose112

double cab defender such a great workhorse

farva

ianobrien wrote: »

Have heard horror stories of Mitsubishi's breaking cranks due to dual mass flywheel failure. Don't know if this is on the L200 or just cars.

Yeh, the same thing happened to my Pajero, and the result was a €1600 bill and 3 weeks off the road!

I'd say go for a Navara or a Hilux, but make sure its the 3.0 Hilux as the 2.5 is way underpowered!!

pburns

I had a similar choice to make last year and chose a Navara (s/h though).

Isuzu ground clearance isn't great - which can be good or bad depending on how much off-roading ability required. Hi-Lux over-priced and a teensy bit overrated according to a mechanic I know. Wouldn't touch the L200 - a dog to drive and I've heard of lots of problems.

I found the Navara (old model) nicest to drive - although all pick-ups are a little bouncy.

Defender may look cool but is a POS (IMHO)...

Rovi

coolbeans wrote: »

...be able to tow several tonnes

Define 'several'.

Braked towing capacities-
Hilux Double Cab- 2250kg
Navara Double Cab- 2305kg
Isuzu D-Max Double Cab- 3000kg
Mitsubishi L-200 Double Cab- 2700kg
Land-Rover Defender 110 Double Cab- 3500kg

colm_mcm

you will be limited to 3500kg total weight of pickup and trailer if using it on road.

Hilux would be the pick of the bunch. Defender ok if it's not going to be used for anything but farm work.

re: the 2.5 Hilux, the new intercooled 2.5 engine is al lot better than the old one they did in 2005. there isn't too much of a difference in real life between the 3.0. unless you drive hard.

emaherx

pburns wrote: »

Defender may look cool but is a POS (IMHO)...

I am a farmer and drive a 110 TD5 Defender; it is the ultimate Farmers 4x4.
Its interior is completely vinyl, which makes it easy to clean out, Power house works for me.
It has the best ground clearance and will perform better than most pickups off road.
It is an easy vehicle to work on and parts can be sourced cheaply via internet (Irish Land Rover Dealers are expensive).
It is a good vehicle for the DIY mechanic as everything is easily accessible and replaceable.

It's not very comfortable, has the build quality of a Tractor.
It dose require more maintenance especially drive shafts which require regular greasing.
Its road handling is not great and there is no sound insulation between you and the road which is especially bad if you have off road tyres fitted.

I'd recommend Defender if it’s going to spend more time off road than on and / or going to be permanently fixed to an Ifor Williams trailer.

How ever if you want comfort, low maintenance and something which can still farm I'd recommend the Hilux (not because of Top Gear), although I'm not 100% sure of the newest model.

Navara is nice but I think they are a little soft and don't have a difflock as standard. Also I don't like electronically engaged 4WD a friend of mine had problems with the electronics and it became stuck in low range 4WD.

Dmax is very pretty, never drove one. Also has electronically engaged 4WD.

L200 again very nice but have herd of issues with gearboxes on some of the older models don't know if this has improved.

colm_mcm

emaherx wrote: »

How ever if you want comfort, low maintenance and something which can still farm I'd recommend the Hilux (not because of Top Gear), although I'm not 100% sure of the newest model.

Much of the new model is carried over from the previous generation Hilux.
I'd avoid the Vigo models though.

bazz26

Seems to be lots of Navaras on the roads these days. Saying that most are probably not used for their intended purpose.

Still you hear no nightmare stories and while Nissan cannot give away their cars they do tend to do well with their 4x4s. The Navara is also well speced for the money.

Oilrig

Oilrig has had experience of most of these, a few years ago in nasty environments (Africa, Middle East, etc)

Hilux gets my vote. The rest don't even come close.

coolbeans

Defender is definitely out I'm afraid. While they're undoubtedly the best of the bunch in the rough stuff that does come at a price. The old man specified some level of comfort and while this is relative especially when we're talking about cart sprung pick-ups the Landie comes dead last in this regard. Appreciate the posts though.

Re the definition of several tonnes; well, and don't shoot the messenger now, he'll be carrying the legal weight limit (and more probably) on a braked Dooley trailer which is basically a heavier reinforced version of the Ifor-Williams.

4x4 transfer switch - I've also heard of problems with all off roaders that use an electronic switch rather than an old fashioned in car gear lever. He'll be rightly pissed if the four wheel drive goes so that may be a big factor. The hilux is the only one as far as I know with an in cab gear stick instead of a switch. This could just swing it. Comments on any off the above??

colm_mcm

Hiluxes are pricey second hand, but worth it IMO.

AngryHippie

Not cos of top gear.

There are two reasons why a Hilux would not be the best option
1 price
2 tricky on a slippy road


Get a 3 L TD Vigo model if you can. Rock solid in every way. get low profile tyres if it does a lot of road driving, larger ATs if off road a lot.
enjoy

colm_mcm

AngryHippie wrote: »

Get a 3 L TD Vigo model if you can. Rock solid in every way. get low profile tyres if it does a lot of road driving, larger ATs if off road a lot.
enjoy

Vigos have no manufacturers warranty and can give trouble with retro fitted heating systems, and the fact that the chassis isn't rustproofed.

coolbeans

Colm I heard that Vigos have no warranty as they're imported from Thailland. What's the deal so? My brother rang up this guy in The North selling imported Vigos of €36k and he said he'd cover it with a warranty too. There's a lot of murkiness re the prices and specs of new Hiluxes as far as I can see. Toyota Ireland don't seem to do the Vigo at all...

colm_mcm

A warranty given by a garage that could close tomorrow isn't really the same as a manufacturers 36 month bumper-to-bumper warranty.

Prices and specs on Irish models are very simple;
there are 2 specs: DLX and SR5.
The DLX is available with the 2.5 engine in single or double cab
The SR5 is available with either the 2.5 or 3,0 engine in double cab only, with auto available as an option on both engines.

All Vigos are non-Europe models and are not covered by warranty, whether you buy them in Northern Ireland, UK, or Ireland.

We've had Vigo owners coming in with wet carpets trying to get their spurious heater rads (fitted by their independant dealer as some Vigos have coolers as opposed to heaters fitted) fixed under warranty, under the illusion that Toyota Ireland would foot the bill.....

niceirishfella

Beans -

Tell your dad to throw convention out the window and get himself this -

http://www.thehummerexperience.com/Articles/2003H3.htm

Sure you cant bring it to the grave!:D

AngryHippie

colm_mcm wrote: »

A warranty given by a garage that could close tomorrow isn't really the same as a manufacturers 36 month bumper-to-bumper warranty.

We've had Vigo owners coming in with wet carpets trying to get their spurious heater rads (fitted by their independant dealer as some Vigos have coolers as opposed to heaters fitted) fixed under warranty, under the illusion that Toyota Ireland would foot the bill.....

I will give you that one. Yes the first month was confusing as the a/c was all over the shop, brought it back in to dealer, sorted. no problems since. Didn't know the chassis wasn't rust-proofed, But it's not caused any other problems at all. Its running sweet as a nut and to be honest, no problems from an uncovered vehicle is as good as a pain in the hole from a soft Nissan with the turning circle of a bingo bus or a Mitsi with a broken turbo solenoid.
But I get where you're comin from, Its a risk really but the machine itself is pretty decent, an I've not managed to get it stuck in brown yet.

coolbeans

colm_mcm wrote: »

A warranty given by a garage that could close tomorrow isn't really the same as a manufacturers 36 month bumper-to-bumper warranty.

Prices and specs on Irish models are very simple;
there are 2 specs: DLX and SR5.
The DLX is available with the 2.5 engine in single or double cab
The SR5 is available with either the 2.5 or 3,0 engine in double cab only, with auto available as an option on both engines.

All Vigos are non-Europe models and are not covered by warranty, whether you buy them in Northern Ireland, UK, or Ireland.

We've had Vigo owners coming in with wet carpets trying to get their spurious heater rads (fitted by their independant dealer as some Vigos have coolers as opposed to heaters fitted) fixed under warranty, under the illusion that Toyota Ireland would foot the bill.....

Thanks for that. Nice and straightforward.

emaherx

coolbeans wrote: »

Defender is definitely out I'm afraid. While they're undoubtedly the best of the bunch in the rough stuff that does come at a price. The old man specified some level of comfort and while this is relative especially when we're talking about cart sprung pick-ups the Landie comes dead last in this regard. Appreciate the posts though.

Re the definition of several tonnes; well, and don't shoot the messenger now, he'll be carrying the legal weight limit (and more probably) on a braked Dooley trailer which is basically a heavier reinforced version of the Ifor-Williams.

4x4 transfer switch - I've also heard of problems with all off roaders that use an electronic switch rather than an old fashioned in car gear lever. He'll be rightly pissed if the four wheel drive goes so that may be a big factor. The hilux is the only one as far as I know with an in cab gear stick instead of a switch. This could just swing it. Comments on any off the above??

I thought the Defender might be out, Shouldn't be compared to other 4x4's any way (More of a tractor ).

Then the Hilux is your best option. You get what you pay for.

Real manual gear sticks and no dials, switches or knobs for range changes

As for being difficult on wet roads, show me a pickup that isn't. There all rear wheel drive (When in 2WD) with no weight on the back.

Just take any pickup onto a wet grassy field with 4WD off and floor it and see how long it takes for your rear to pass yor front. (good fun though )

What ever you go for, if its for farming make sure at has a least a central Diff Lock.

emaherx

niceirishfella wrote: »

Beans -

Tell your dad to throw convention out the window and get himself this -

http://www.thehummerexperience.com/Articles/2003H3.htm

Sure you cant bring it to the grave!:D

Is it just me or are those tyres on backwards?
Oh and where's the gear stick?
Looks tuff, but I reckon it would last about ten Min on a Farm.

Better off with a Unimog if you just want BIG

niceirishfella

emaherx wrote: »

Is it just me or are those tyres on backwards?
Oh and where's the gear stick?
Looks tuff, but I reckon it would last about ten Min on a Farm.

Better off with a Unimog if you just want BIG

Yeah, LOL - i just threw it in for the laff. Nice looking beast to cruise round in late on a saturday night i'd say and check out the totty, real poser of a yoke!:p

emaherx

niceirishfella wrote: »

Yeah, LOL - i just threw it in for the laff. Nice looking beast to cruise round in late on a saturday night i'd say and check out the totty, real poser of a yoke!:p

Yea but I like this one
http://whiteafrican.com/wp-content/Maximog%20-%20Unimog.jpg
They come in a pickup or truck body too.

niceirishfella

emaherx wrote: »

Yea but I like this one
http://whiteafrican.com/wp-content/Maximog%20-%20Unimog.jpg
They come in a pickup or truck body too.

A UNICAT! Never saw one of those before - cool beast of a thing. Lovin it.
Its like the cross between a Mercedes G wagon and a Unimog. Does it have a PTO shaft on the back?

VillageIdiot

I wouldn't dare touch the Navara with its electronic 4WD switch. And any engine that small (2.5 l) producing that much power and torque has got to be working hard. I dont know about the new Mitsubishi. The old L200 was a pig. And like the other guy said, the D-max is just too much bling. I'd go Hilux. I have a 2007 3.0 D4D model. Fuel economy is superb (35 mpg, all open roads I admit), and it is reliable so far. You should bear in mind that the towing capacity is only 2.25 tonnes. If yer auld fella is going towing bullocks, this might be a problem. Also, there is no diff lock as standard on the Irish models, as I discovered in a boggy field in the middle of nowhere.

colm_mcm

VillageIdiot wrote: »

Also, there is no diff lock as standard on the Irish models, as I discovered in a boggy field in the middle of nowhere.

The 2.5 gets a rear diff lock, oddly enough.

Bendihorse

Just to jump in here with a voice of experience on Nissan Navaras.

We had two 06 versions bought new for site work and transporting crews. Had to replace clutch in each of them literally 5 times.

Granted, both might as well have had tri axle trailers welded to them, but they would only have been properly loaded one day a week with a mini digger. 4wd drive switch also gave bother with 4wd light getting stuck on in both jeeps on 4 seperate occasions (Two Each).

After all the bother we decided to get rid of them at which point we found we were married to them. Found them very difficult to move on on at what was a resonable price for the amount of fairly hard work they had put in.

Never had a hilux but we've always had toyota land cruisers (only went with the Navara for the crew cab) and they are well able for hard work, i presume the hilux would be as good, therefore worth the extra few pound.

Invincible

colm_mcm wrote: »

A warranty given by a garage that could close tomorrow isn't really the same as a manufacturers 36 month bumper-to-bumper warranty.

Prices and specs on Irish models are very simple;
there are 2 specs: DLX and SR5.
The DLX is available with the 2.5 engine in single or double cab
The SR5 is available with either the 2.5 or 3,0 engine in double cab only, with auto available as an option on both engines.

All Vigos are non-Europe models and are not covered by warranty, whether you buy them in Northern Ireland, UK, or Ireland.

We've had Vigo owners coming in with wet carpets trying to get their spurious heater rads (fitted by their independant dealer as some Vigos have coolers as opposed to heaters fitted) fixed under warranty, under the illusion that Toyota Ireland would foot the bill.....

Why Colm are there only 2 options available here,e.g(DLX & SR5), while there are 3 available in the u.k,check www.toyota.co.uk

colm_mcm

Because Toyota GB and Toyota Ireland are different companies. SR5 is pretty much the same as HL3. Drove the invincible, some nice extras, most could be fitted aftermarket.

GERMAN ROCKS

id go for the d max

colm_mcm

GERMAN ROCKS wrote: »

id go for the d max

On what basis?

GERMAN ROCKS

i always think isuzus look well even when there old. just saw an old 99 sort of goldish trooper the other day with a bull bar and near it was a pajero. the trooper looked 100 times better in my opinion. i never liked toyotas i always thought they were kind of boring. i also heard the new isuzus have very good engines in them. i think the nissans date kind of fast and dont look as good when there older. i love the d max it looks like this big hummer sort of a jeep. so on that basis id go for the d-max

colm_mcm

It's a bad idea to buy a pickup based on it's looks.
I've driven all the pickups listed here, and the Dmax is behind the Hilux and Navara in pretty much every respect.
D-Max only looks acceptable because of the Cobra kit IMO.

GERMAN ROCKS

well im mu opinion looks is the second most important factor after reliability. you dont want a jeep that you will have for maby 10 years and hate the sight of it every morning you look at it.

colm_mcm

For a pickup, I'd take comfort, off road ability, and on road handling before looks.

GERMAN ROCKS

im not sure about the d max but in the troopers i find them to be very good off road and very comfortable- i only had a friends once when going to the ploughing match

colm_mcm

Not to appear condacending, but you'd really have to drive a few to be in a position to recommend one over another. The OP is looking for something to work on a farm, so choosing a pickup on the basis of how it looks or on how an entirely different product from the same company drives isn't a great idea.

PaulieBoy

coolbeans wrote: »

l'd just like to say that i'm against large 4x4s as an accessory i.e. if you don't need one in the first place for your job, (serious) hobby or whatever.

Not being a troll here, but since when did you have to have a reason to buy something here ? I thought you could go buy what you like / can afford, that we are living in a "free" democracy or something !!!
If someone wants to buy a 4x4 then good luck to them, I don't see any reason whatsoever that they should have to justify it to anyone.

We pay our taxes on everything, and if someone wants to pay yet more taxes on purchasing a 4x4, just cos they want one, rather than have to have one, then whats the problem ?

Are we now living in a society where each and every purchase has to be justified ? And to whom do we justify each and every purchase ?
Who has the say on this, who is the oracle that we turn to ?

It's all bull !

I drive a very nice Ford Ranger XLT, got full leather interior fitted, and everything else I could throw at it, I don't "need" it, the Hiace did me fine!

I don't drive off road, never did, never will, so should I bring this tasty Ranger around to our local Green party rep and seek permission and forgiveness for my sins ?
Will I beg on bended knees ?
Do I lie awake at night, repenting my sins to the Green folk ?
Will I replace it with a bicycle and trailer ?
Do I care one iota about what other people think ?
No :-)

Once we bowed down to the priest, now we bow down to some so called "green guru" , that would have us all in sack cloths eating lentils !
You see how quickly the greens sold out for a bit of power, they are interested in one thing only , themselves .

I am interested in one thing only, me :-)

colm_mcm

how does this help the OP?

astraboy

Probably doesn't help the OP but I agree with the sentiments of the rant anyway!

As for the choices, I believe the D-Max would not be as good off road as the L200 or Hilux. A jeep with 20" wheels is not ment for off road!

emaherx

PaulieBoy wrote: »

Not being a troll here, but since when did you have to have a reason to buy something here ? I thought you could go buy what you like / can afford, that we are living in a "free" democracy or something !!!
If someone wants to buy a 4X4 then good luck to them, I don't see any reason whatsoever that they should have to justify it to anyone.

We pay our taxes on everything, and if someone wants to pay yet more taxes on purchasing a 4X4, just cos they want one, rather than have to have one, then whats the problem ?

Are we now living in a society where each and every purchase has to be justified ? And to whom do we justify each and every purchase ?
Who has the say on this, who is the oracle that we turn to ?

It's all bull !

I drive a very nice Ford Ranger XLT, got full leather interior fitted, and everything else I could throw at it, I don't "need" it, the Hiace did me fine!

I don't drive off road, never did, never will, so should I bring this tasty Ranger around to our local Green party rep and seek permission and forgiveness for my sins ?
Will I beg on bended knees ?
Do I lie awake at night, repenting my sins to the Green folk ?
Will I replace it with a bicycle and trailer ?
Do I care one iota about what other people think ?
No :-)

Once we bowed down to the priest, now we bow down to some so called "green guru" , that would have us all in sack cloths eating lentils !
You see how quickly the greens sold out for a bit of power, they are interested in one thing only , themselves .

I am interested in one thing only, me :-)

Shh! be quite you'll attract the anti 4X4 Brigade!
Everyone on this thread needs a 4X4 OK.

Although I don't disagree with your rant, the last thread based on who needs a 4x4 was locked because it was going around in pointless circles and you will never change the opinion of any one in that argument.

Any way you replaced a van with a pick up, so you obviously require a large commercial vehicle. I don't think the fact that it is a 4X4 is going to make it much more evil than a Hiace.

GERMAN_ROCKS wrote:

well im mu opinion looks is the second most important factor after reliability. you dont want a jeep that you will have for maby 10 years and hate the sight of it every morning you look at it.

This is a thread about a vehicle required for farming, so looks are probably way down the list of requirements. Sure enough the DMAX can look cool but its not a Farmers jeep, although the Trooper on the other hand is, but its not a pickup.


In my opinuion only the Hilux or Defender cut it as farm pickups and the Defender was already ruled out by OP because of maintance requirements and lack of comfort. So I'd say go for the Hilux 2.5 (more than enough pull in this) with Difflock.

Tara Mines in Navan only use Defender and Hilux pickups as crew carriers under ground, driving on solid rock and spend much of their time with the axels submerged under water.

PaulieBoy

colm_mcm wrote: »

how does this help the OP?

It does not help the OP in the least bit!
But he did start his post with a statement that did kinda annoy me a little, as you could see :-)

Anyway to the OP, sorry for my intervention, and good luck with your purchase :-)

And to keep the green lobby happy, I got the bus to and from town tonight!!!

colm_mcm

astraboy wrote: »

Probably doesn't help the OP but I agree with the sentiments of the rant anyway!

As for the choices, I believe the D-Max would not be as good off road as the L200 or Hilux. A jeep with 20" wheels is not ment for off road!

D-Max doesn't come from factory with 20" wheels. They just get added on in Ireland if requested.

Mailman

Was driving my brother in laws '08 Mazda BT50 crew cab at the week end.
Wasn't the worst thing in the world, was easy to drive and the turbo diesel engine was willing.
Don't like crew cabs but if you must then I suppose you can add this to the list.
Get the feeling the Mazda dealers would be happy to get sales of a crew cab as the don't seem to sell in great numbers.

colm_mcm

The old model B2500 is antiquated though.

irish_bob

why not go for a landcruiser , there almost as tough as a defender and way more reliable aswell as more comfortable

groupb

coolbeans wrote: »

Defender is definitely out I'm afraid. While they're undoubtedly the best of the bunch in the rough stuff that does come at a price. The old man specified some level of comfort and while this is relative especially when we're talking about cart sprung pick-ups the Landie comes dead last in this regard. Appreciate the posts though.

Re the definition of several tonnes; well, and don't shoot the messenger now, he'll be carrying the legal weight limit (and more probably) on a braked Dooley trailer which is basically a heavier reinforced version of the Ifor-Williams.

4x4 transfer switch - I've also heard of problems with all off roaders that use an electronic switch rather than an old fashioned in car gear lever. He'll be rightly pissed if the four wheel drive goes so that may be a big factor. The hilux is the only one as far as I know with an in cab gear stick instead of a switch. This could just swing it. Comments on any off the above??

The defender has coil springs.

commited

I had the same dilemma and chose a brand new Navara LE over any of the others. It should be delivered in the next couple of weeks