black and tan ice cream

ScumLord · 14-01-2008 5:18pm

I think at the very least the Tans deserve 800 years of stick for what they did. It doesn't have to be bad minded but we shouldn't let them live it down ever.

FatherTed · 14-01-2008 5:30pm

The ice cream was named after a drink which was around before The Black and Tans.

I don't see what it has to do with a paramilitary force other than it shares the same name.

Terry · 14-01-2008 5:48pm

ejmaztec wrote: »

I'm not saying that it should be forgotten. It should also not be forgotten that, during British rule, there were plenty Irish people acting in collusion, who didn't give a damn about their fellow countrymen, even at the time of The Famine. Someone pointed out to me that some machinery contractor in this area, is a descendant of someone who used to demolish the cottages when the landlords kicked people off the estates. He's carried on the family tradition, even in recent years, demolishing a house for dubious reasons, which I won't mention here, in case he flattens my "hovel" as well. :eek:

Of course there was collusion. There always is in cases like this.
Someone will always be willing to sell out their countrymen for a few quid.

There were plenty of people who did such work for absentee landlords and their ilk.

ejmaztec · 14-01-2008 5:50pm

ScumLord wrote: »

I think at the very least the Tans deserve 800 years of stick for what they did. It doesn't have to be bad minded but we shouldn't let them live it down ever.

I think that there's a strong possibility that there aren't any Tans left, but it's probably quite warm where they ended up.

ejmaztec · 14-01-2008 5:55pm

Terry wrote: »

Of course there was collusion. There always is in cases like this.
Someone will always be willing to sell out their countrymen for a few quid.

There were plenty of people who did such work for absentee landlords and their ilk.

I also know who all of the "land-grabbers" are around here. They were all pointed out to me early on, one of them by a drunken priest whose great-grandfather had his land "shtolen" from under him. With genetic memories like this, no-one will be allowed to forget:)

Dinter · 14-01-2008 6:15pm

I have to say I'd be offended by someone referencing the Black and Tans as a celebration of "Irishness". (St. Patrick's Day) I would agree with some posters that it was probably accidental but that is why large corporations like Ben and Jerry's have market research divisions. They should avoid such mistakes.

I don't see any problem in comparing the razing of most of Cork, for example, with the clearing of the Warsaw Ghetto during WWII. Why should I? Less people died but any civil authority be it German or British that takes that sort of action deserves the utmost condemnation. At least Germany has something of an excuse in that it was in thrall to a dictatorship at the time. A mad twisted dictatorship.

Britain, on the other hand, was a democracy who's elected government decided on repression, destruction and murder as a government policy.

Anyway I don't feel the need to apologise for my beliefs. An apology admits liability.

This was clearly shown when Ben and Jerry's apologised for their faux pas and when Tony Blair, on behalf of HMG, apologised for the famine.

SheroN · 14-01-2008 6:18pm

As a gesture of goodwill they should ship a few container loads of spuds over from the UK. Only then can we trully move on - talk is cheap.

14-01-2008 6:29pm

Terry wrote: »

It was about the name of an ice cream which insulted people because of the historical connotations.

FatherTed wrote: »

The ice cream was named after a drink which was around before The Black and Tans.

I don't see what it has to do with a paramilitary force other than it shares the same name.

I think some people just start these threads because they love to see anti-british comments & some contribute because they love making anti-british comments, but most just see it for what it is - an attempt to stir the sh1t again.

Learning and understanding history is one thing, using it to try & (for some suceed to) re-open old wounds is another!

14-01-2008 6:32pm

Dinter wrote: »

This was clearly shown when Ben and Jerry's apologised for their faux pas and when Tony Blair, on behalf of HMG, apologised for the famine.

Has that apology been accepted? (judging by some of the comments here the answer must be NO!)

14-01-2008 6:59pm

Either Phish Food or Peace of Cake are the nicest flavours.

Terry · 14-01-2008 7:36pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I think some people just start these threads because they love to see anti-british comments & some contribute because they love making anti-british comments, but most just see it for what it is - an attempt to stir the sh1t again.

Learning and understanding history is one thing, using it to try & (for some suceed to) re-open old wounds is another!

So we should just brush it all under the carpet and forget it ever happened? Never to be discussed again?

I would think quite a lot of people here would like to see that happen, wouldn't you?

14-01-2008 7:40pm

Terry wrote: »

So we should just brush it all under the carpet and forget it ever happened? Never to be discussed again?

I would think quite a lot of people here would like to see that happen, wouldn't you?

No one said sweep it under the carpet - but there is a time & a place for everything.

Turning an observation that there is an ice cream (& drink) called "black & tan" into a history lesson/rant is not one of them.

Terry · 14-01-2008 7:44pm

Deleted User wrote: »

No one said sweep it under the carpet - but there is a time & a place for everything.

Turning an observation that there is an ice cream (& drink) called "black & tan" into a history lesson/rant is not one of them.

The discussion is about the withdrawal of the brand and the reason behind it.
Did you read the first post?

Dudess · 14-01-2008 7:44pm

Dinter wrote: »

I don't see any problem in the razing of Cork

You take that back! :mad:

Where's dlofnep, I wonder? This is his kinda thread.

Deleted User wrote: »

Peace of Cake

Oh yeah... heavenly flavour all right!

14-01-2008 7:47pm

Terry wrote: »

The discussion is about the withdrawal of the brand and the reason behind it.
Did you read the first post?

Yes! but as usual this type of thread spiraled off on a tangent

daveirl · 14-01-2008 7:48pm

This post has been deleted.

Terry · 14-01-2008 7:51pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes! but as usual this type of thread spiraled off on a tangent

Only by those telling us that the black and tans weren't really that bad and that we should forget our history.

14-01-2008 7:52pm

daveirl wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Now there's a challenge for the Advertising gurus to try and sell that here!

Dinter · 14-01-2008 7:53pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I think some people just start these threads because they love to see anti-british comments & some contribute because they love making anti-british comments, but most just see it for what it is - an attempt to stir the sh1t again.

Learning and understanding history is one thing, using it to try & (for some suceed to) re-open old wounds is another!

The question of whether naming an ice cream in "honour" of the Irish people, puerile as that idea is, but then having the stupidity and thoughtlessness to choose a name that is to many Irish people is the equivalent of the Gestapo to others is what was asked. That's not Brit bashing.

Obviously this cannot be discussed without reference to the Tans who were a murderous gang of state sanctioned executioners. Was that a good corporate idea? I think not.

Why though should the Irish feel ashamed to talk of our history? Why should we worry about offending sensibilities? This was not 1798 but the 1920's. Our grandparents lived through this in much the same way the British lived through the Blitz or the Somme. If you watch Top Gear or read his columns you'll see that Jeremy Clarkson still refers to the British fighting Germans in the War.

Tony Blairs apology was accepted. However that doesn't wipe the slate clean for anything post famine imo. Old wounds indeed but old wounds are just as liable to scar.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4158/is_19970602/ai_n14104434

ejmaztec · 14-01-2008 7:54pm

Ben and Jerry's is over-hyped expensive sh1te in a carton, no matter what marketing ploy they use.

Terry · 14-01-2008 7:57pm

ejmaztec wrote: »

Ben and Jerry's is over-hyped expensive sh1te in a carton, no matter what marketing ploy they use.

Finally, something I can agree with 100%.

14-01-2008 8:11pm

Terry wrote: »

Only by those telling us that the black and tans weren't really that bad and that we should forget our history.

When I was taught History (in the UK) we were told that they were the worst regiment the British army had ever had, mainly made up of war criminals & shell shocked remnants of regiments destroyed in the trenches and that they committed many atrosoties (SP?), no one should forget - but far too many have used this episode of history to perpetrate current prejudges.

ejmaztec · 14-01-2008 8:13pm

Terry wrote: »

Finally, something I can agree with 100%.

I think that a drink is called for:D

Attachment not found.

Don't tell Ben or Jerry, they might get some more strange ideas.:eek:

Terry · 14-01-2008 8:25pm

Deleted User wrote: »

When I was taught History (in the UK) we were told that they were the worst regiment the British army had ever had, mainly made up of war criminals & shell shocked remnants of regiments destroyed in the trenches and that they committed many atrosoties (SP?), no one should forget - but far too many have used this episode of history to perpetrate current prejudges.

Like who?

Marksie · 14-01-2008 9:19pm

Actually in my home town a black and tan was bitter and stout.

However, my mum (ex nightclub singer) belted this out in malaga amongst host of irish in the late sixties..
It was appreciated i believe, coming as it did from an english person who didn't know any better:

Oh, come out you black and tans,
Come out and fight me like a man
Show your wives how you won medals down in Flanders
Tell them how the IRA made you run like hell away,
From the green and lovely lanes in Killashandra.

14-01-2008 10:19pm

Dinter wrote: »

The question of whether naming an ice cream in "honour" of the Irish people, puerile as that idea is, but then having the stupidity and thoughtlessness to choose a name that is to many Irish people is the equivalent of the Gestapo to others is what was asked. That's not Brit bashing.

Obviously this cannot be discussed without reference to the Tans who were a murderous gang of state sanctioned executioners. Was that a good corporate idea? I think not.

Why though should the Irish feel ashamed to talk of our history? Why should we worry about offending sensibilities? This was not 1798 but the 1920's. Our grandparents lived through this in much the same way the British lived through the Blitz or the Somme. If you watch Top Gear or read his columns you'll see that Jeremy Clarkson still refers to the British fighting Germans in the War.

Tony Blairs apology was accepted. However that doesn't wipe the slate clean for anything post famine imo. Old wounds indeed but old wounds are just as liable to scar.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4158/is_19970602/ai_n14104434

Once again, it has been stated that the drink was there before the Black and Tans ever existed, and the ice-cream was named after the drink. It just so happened to coincide with these awful people.

Oh hey, you guys. You should all complain about this too. OMG! It's the IRA!

It has nothing to do with history, it has to do with a drink, and a mistaken name.

Ben and Jerry's is over-hyped expensive sh1te in a carton, no matter what marketing ploy they use.

There's a Ben and Jerrys scoopshop where I work, with a map of where you can buy their product in the world. It's not on sale in any third-world country. Thats how expensive it is.

thebman · 14-01-2008 10:20pm

Dinter wrote: »

The question of whether naming an ice cream in "honour" of the Irish people, puerile as that idea is, but then having the stupidity and thoughtlessness to choose a name that is to many Irish people is the equivalent of the Gestapo to others is what was asked. That's not Brit bashing.

Obviously this cannot be discussed without reference to the Tans who were a murderous gang of state sanctioned executioners. Was that a good corporate idea? I think not.

Why though should the Irish feel ashamed to talk of our history? Why should we worry about offending sensibilities? This was not 1798 but the 1920's. Our grandparents lived through this in much the same way the British lived through the Blitz or the Somme. If you watch Top Gear or read his columns you'll see that Jeremy Clarkson still refers to the British fighting Germans in the War.

Tony Blairs apology was accepted. However that doesn't wipe the slate clean for anything post famine imo. Old wounds indeed but old wounds are just as liable to scar.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4158/is_19970602/ai_n14104434

Exactly why are the Irish not supposed to talk about our history but the Brit's and American's can talk about and make video games about killing Germans a dozen times a year not to mention the films, books, documentaries etc... and people don't make comments about how this is only done to encourage hatred of the German's?

We are Irish and we have a right to be proud of our history and to discuss it.

Saying we shouldn't discuss our history because it might upset the Brit's is bullcrap. The Brit's don't own us and they don't decide what we have the right to say nor should we ignore our history for fear of upsetting them a little.

Its in the past, like all history so why should ours be forgotten especially by us (and talk to 90% of Irish people who have not got a clue about their own history)?

The whole, we should leave it in the past argument holds no weight. Its not an excuse to encourage people to hate Brit's or whatever some fools might think, it is simple recognition of the path that lead us to where we are today.

Anyway that is all way off topic, the ice cream idea was stupid. I've never had Ben and Jerry's because I never got why I should pay that much for such a small tub of ice cream on the way into the cinema in Liffey Valley and I don't buy tubs in shops, I just buy a single Ice Cream.

I've never seen any marketing by them, all I've heard is other people going on about how they market themselves a lot.

daveirl · 14-01-2008 10:22pm

This post has been deleted.

14-01-2008 10:29pm

daveirl wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

See, thats where you've lost me. Mainly because the ice-cream had nothing to do with the actual Black and Tans. Here, even read the product description

Cream stout ice cream swirled with chocolate ice cream

We've no idea how many Ben & Jerry's fans might be beer enthusiasts, but we suspect that once you've tasted the way we've blended real cream stout ice cream with a whirl of chocolate ice cream, you might soon be raising more than a few pints of Black & Tan - and more than a few brew-aha!'s too.

See, nothing to do with Ireland. No mention of it whatsoever. Nothing to do with history. Just a drink. And I don't know about you, but it sounds delicious.

In fact, I'm going to check to see if I can order some right now.

Dinter · 14-01-2008 10:29pm

brim4brim wrote: »

Exactly why are the Irish not supposed to talk about our history but the Brit's and American's can talk about and make video games about killing Germans a dozen times a year not to mention the films, books, documentaries etc... and people don't make comments about how this is only done to encourage hatred of the German's?

We are Irish and we have a right to be proud of our history and to discuss it.

Saying we shouldn't discuss our history because it might upset the Brit's is bullcrap. The Brit's don't own us and they don't decide what we have the right to say nor should we ignore our history for fear of upsetting them a little.

Its in the past, like all history so why should ours be forgotten especially by us (and talk to 90% of Irish people who have not got a clue about their own history)?

The whole, we should leave it in the past argument holds no weight. Its not an excuse to encourage people to hate Brit's or whatever some fools might think, it is simple recognition of the path that lead us to where we are today.
.

That's my point.

black and tan ice cream

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