Whats the best weights exercise for squaring shoulders?

NFH

I would like to square my shoulders more, particularly my front shoulders above the bicep. I know the 'military press' is good for this but I'm looking for other ideas, cheers.

pwd

bench press is good for front of shoulders

NFH

Well maybe its not the front of shoulders I'm lookin for then cause I do the bench press alot.

pwd

lying lateral raise is good for outer shoulder (lie on your side with weight in front of you and raise it with your higher arm)
behind the neck press also good for this.
Different grips will emphasise different muscles in bench press (wide/narrow etc). Maybe you use a technique that does not emphasise your shoulders.

t-ha

Face pulls are great for building up the shoulders - especially the lateral deltoid which gives the shoulders a wider look from the front. Just google it if you're unfamiliar with the exercise.

Edwardius

I presume an overhead shoulder press would do it! Are you going for size, strength, athleticism or posing (not unheard of, apparently)? You should probably concentrate on more than your shoulders just for the sake of not sacrificing other areas. Also diet, blah blah blah, stickies, blah etc!

Edit: oops that overhead thing I mentioned is the same as the military press. Carry on...

StephenInsane

Do u do those exercises sitting or standing?

NFH

I do the military press sitting to support my back

arybvtcw0eolkf

t-ha wrote: »

Face pulls are great for building up the shoulders - .

How's this for a face pull?.



<Btw, whats a face pull?>

Roper

Just to be picky, if it's seated it can't be a military press. The "military" refers to strict form through the motion with the whole body, including the legs.

Seated shoulder presses are good but not as good as a military press. If there's a medical reason you have to sit, then that would be the only reason you should even if standing means you have to lower the weight you're lifting.

The FitnessDock

Parallel Bar Dips are an excellent mass builder for the shoulders, especially the anterior head of the deltoids (front of the shoulder). Bench dips (with a barbell plate placed across your thighs) are excellent too.

Other options include Hindu Press-Ups and Muscle Ups, which both really hit the shoulders. Also standard press-ups are great. The more you elevate your legs, the more your shoulders will be worked. The ultimate is the handstand push-up, which is very, very difficult. Many will find just holding themselves in the top position of a handstand (with a wall behind you supporting) difficult enough by itself.

Hope that helps,

PAUL

amazingemmet

The FitnessDock wrote: »

Parallel Bar Dips are an excellent mass builder for the shoulders, especially the anterior head of the deltoids (front of the shoulder). Bench dips (with a barbell plate placed across your thighs) are excellent too.

Other options include Hindu Press-Ups and Muscle Ups, which both really hit the shoulders. Also standard press-ups are great. The more you elevate your legs, the more your shoulders will be worked. The ultimate is the handstand push-up, which is very, very difficult. Many will find just holding themselves in the top position of a handstand (with a wall behind you supporting) difficult enough by itself.

Hope that helps,

PAUL

I'm gonna disagree with you there and say a hspu is more a tricep exercise and the rom you'll get doing it on the floor is limited to the lockout position of a normal militray press also most people don't have the right alignment in the shoulders meaning they'll use their pecs do do most the work.

The FitnessDock

amazingemmet wrote: »

I'm gonna disagree with you there and say a hspu is more a tricep exercise and the rom you'll get doing it on the floor is limited to the lockout position of a normal militray press

I don't know how you perform them - I'm guessing from your answer you do it in a way that limits your range of motion. To increase your range of motion, you can do them between 2 chairs or, best of all, 2 Steps (the ones used for Step Aerobics. This will give you a range of motion which is greater than the military barbell press - no barbell in the way - it's up to you how low you want to go.

amazingemmet wrote: »

Most people don't have the right alignment in the shoulders meaning they'll use their pecs do do most the work.

Sounds like you're referring to an elevated push-up. In a properly performed handstand push-up, you're completely vertical. There is minimal pec involvement, not any more than from a military press. It looks exactly like a military press only upside down! And much, much harder!

arybvtcw0eolkf

Roper wrote: »

Seated shoulder presses are good but not as good as a military press. .

Why?.

amazingemmet

I don't know how you perform them - I'm guessing from your answer you do it in a way that limits your range of motion. To increase your range of motion, you can do them between 2 chairs or, best of all, 2 Steps (the ones used for Step Aerobics. This will give you a range of motion which is greater than the military barbell press - no barbell in the way - it's up to you how low you want to go.

>Just an fyi I'm a circus performer and sports acrobatics coach and normally do mine on paralettes, rings or straps, but your advice is on the button.

Sounds like you're referring to an elevated push-up. In a properly performed handstand push-up, you're completely vertical. There is minimal pec involvement, not any more than from a military press. It looks exactly like a military press only upside down! And much, much harder!

But what I was refering too is most people haven't go the nesscary posture and flexibilty to hold a tight dish while keep their shoulders in the right alignment to avoid an impingemint while doing the press. When i mentioned people using their pecs I was refering to the way you see 99% of people doing hspu with a hyper extended spine thus letting their shoulders be in a similar alignment to an incline press.

celestial

Mairt wrote: »

Why?.

Do a military press, and then sit down and do a seated shoulder press. Think of the way your body feels and reacts to each movement. When you are standing doing the military press you are engaging not only your shoulder muscles, but also the core stabilising muscles of your abdomen, along with other core muscles. Also, your legs, ankles, etc are supporting the load of the weight as it exerts force throughout your whole body, from top to bottom.

When you are sitting down, the weight is pressing down on your shoulders and is also supported by your back. You will tend to wobble more when raising the weight as you are not engaging the core supporting muscles to the same degree. For these reasons standing is the way to go imo.

arybvtcw0eolkf

celestial wrote: »

Do a military press, and then sit down and do a seated shoulder press. Think of the way your body feels and reacts to each movement. When you are standing doing the military press you are engaging not only your shoulder muscles, but also the core stabilising muscles of your abdomen, along with other core muscles. Also, your legs, ankles, etc are supporting the load of the weight as it exerts force throughout your whole body, from top to bottom.

When you are sitting down, the weight is pressing down on your shoulders and is also supported by your back. You will tend to wobble more when raising the weight as you are not engaging the core supporting muscles to the same degree. For these reasons standing is the way to go imo.

But the thread is about training your shoulders, how does standing work your shoulders harder?.

Hanley

celestial wrote: »

Do a military press, and then sit down and do a seated shoulder press. Think of the way your body feels and reacts to each movement. When you are standing doing the military press you are engaging not only your shoulder muscles, but also the core stabilising muscles of your abdomen, along with other core muscles. Also, your legs, ankles, etc are supporting the load of the weight as it exerts force throughout your whole body, from top to bottom.

When you are sitting down, the weight is pressing down on your shoulders and is also supported by your back. You will tend to wobble more when raising the weight as you are not engaging the core supporting muscles to the same degree. For these reasons standing is the way to go imo.

What's the point in short changing your shoulder strength so that your "core" and "supprting muscles" get a better workout?

That just doesn't make sense.

SpAcEd OuT

Hanley wrote: »

What's the point in short changing your shoulder strength so that your "core" and "supprting muscles" get a better workout?

That just doesn't make sense.

Thats exactly what I was thinking.

Surely you would be better off doing sitting for shoulder muscles as it is working solely your shoulders and as such you will not be impeded by others muscles weaknesses and can lift heavier

The FitnessDock

amazingemmet wrote: »

>Just an fyi I'm a circus performer and sports acrobatics coach and normally do mine on paralettes, rings or straps,

RESPECT!

celestial

Hanley wrote: »

What's the point in short changing your shoulder strength so that your "core" and "supprting muscles" get a better workout?

That just doesn't make sense.

Because strengthening other muscles doesn't necessarily = less work done by the main muscles (in this case the shoulders).

Your core and stabilising muscles should help you to lift more weight overall. They are enabling your shoulder muscles to lift heavier and supporting more mass overall. I'm open to correction but that is what makes sense to me.

pwd

SpAcEd OuT wrote: »

Thats exactly what I was thinking.

Surely you would be better off doing sitting for shoulder muscles as it is working solely your shoulders and as such you will not be impeded by others muscles weaknesses and can lift heavier

It's accepted that the more muscles involved in an exercise, the more effective it is though. So the standing miltary press would be more effective in general than the seated shoulder press, while the seated shoulder press could put more emphasis on the shoulders.
It's interesting to see that the proper form for the military press is standing, as I hadn't realised that it myself.

Hanley

celestial wrote: »

Because strengthening other muscles doesn't necessarily = less work done by the main muscles (in this case the shoulders).

Your core and stabilising muscles should help you to lift more weight overall. They are enabling your shoulder muscles to lift heavier and supporting more mass overall. I'm open to correction but that is what makes sense to me.

Say someone presses 70kg standing for 8, strictly. But can do 80kg for 8 seated, strictly.

Are you trying to tell me that somehow their shoulders are getting stronger and bigger pressing 70kg instead of 80?

Hanley

pwd wrote: »

It's accepted that the more muscles involved in an exercise, the more effective it is though.So the standing miltary press would be more effective in general than the seated shoulder press, while the seated shoulder press could put more emphasis on the shoulders.
It's interesting to see that the proper form for the military press is standing, as I hadn't realised that it myself.

What?

How is it "more effective"? More effective at what??? Not at strengthing your shoulders if you have to use a lighter weight. I don't know about you guys, but when I'm doing shoulder work I'm not thinking "ohhh is my core getting a good workout too??".

If you're doing beltless squats and deadlifts then you core really doesn't need any more extra work from standing presses if your shoulder strength is lagging behind the rest of your body and holding you back.

FTR, a military press is one done standing upright, with your heels together and no leg drive. I think what people are refering to in this thread is actually just a plain old "press".

NFH

Alot of good advice, cheers, what I've started doing is this -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bT8A7Vc-2SI

pwd

Hanley wrote: »

What?

How is it "more effective"? More effective at what??? Not at strengthing your shoulders if you have to use a lighter weight. I don't know about you guys, but when I'm doing shoulder work I'm not thinking "ohhh is my core getting a good workout too??".

If you're doing beltless squats and deadlifts then you core really doesn't need any more extra work from standing presses if your shoulder strength is lagging behind the rest of your body and holding you back.

FTR, a military press is one done standing upright, with your heels together and no leg drive. I think what people are refering to in this thread is actually just a plain old "press".

More effective in the sense that the more muscles involved in an exerise, the more effort is involved, and the more effort involved, the greater increase in hormone levels such as testosterone.
Therefore the standing military press is more effective in general, while, as I said in my previous post, the seated one puts more emphasis on the shoulders.

Hanley

pwd wrote: »

More effective in the sense that the more muscles involved in an exerise, the more effort is involved, and the more effort involved, the greater increase in hormone levels such as testosterone.
Therefore the standing military press is more effective in general, while, as I said in my previous post, the seated one puts more emphasis on the shoulders.

And a squat is more effective than a military press at producing test. Does that mean people should squat whenever they were thinking of doing a military press? Hell if squat's are the most effective then why bother doing anything else at all?

Listen, doing a seated press instead of a military press isn't gonna have a big overall impact on the rest of his program. A MP isn't gonna make him a test producing machine with GH levels to rival that of a baby. All it does is short change his shoulder development.

Leon11

Seated shoulder press is better as you can go heavier than a military press. For the OP this will speed up the development of his shoulders as opposed to lifting a lower weight doing the military press. Bear in mind a lot of people I see in commercial gyms attempting a military press arc their backs horribly when they attempt to "lift" heavy so on the safety aspect the seated press wins out imo!

mickoo

You are born with your own shape and this will not change as far as the bone structure goes, so i think your aiming for the unrealistic-im suprised nobody else copped that.

build the muscles around that area, Chest, Back, Shoulders and traps and you'll bulk up but not drastically alter your shape as such, you'll just be a bigger version of you now.

arybvtcw0eolkf

OP.

Building muscle & lifting weights is simple, don't try turn it into a science.

I rarely post on this forum, TBH the amount of terrible advice just pi$$es me off big time so I avoid it mostly.

OP listen to the likes of Hanley and people like him, people who keep their lifting simple and and look after the things which really require closer scrutiny, ie their diets & rest outside of the gym.

arybvtcw0eolkf

mickoo wrote: »

You are born with your own shape and this will not change as far as the bone structure goes, so i think your aiming for the unrealistic-im suprised nobody else copped that.

build the muscles around that area, Chest, Back, Shoulders and traps and you'll bulk up but not drastically alter your shape as such, you'll just be a bigger version of you now.

Sorry, but I have to call bullsh*t.

Your confusing changing your genetics with changing your bodyshape.

You won't change your genetics with anything, either steroids, diets or lifting weights.

An example..

If you took last years (or any year) top ten Mr.O line up. And took away all their drugs, ie 'slin, GH, steroids and all the ancillary drugs which go with it and had them compete completely clean the same guys would/should place in the very same positions but just look a lot smaller.

But because genetics don't change the same guys who place in the same position.

Proper training, diet & rest will drastically change even the worse ectomorph.

Roper

Just quickly, I wasn't responding to the OP I was making a point about the military press not being done from a seated position which was OT I suppose. Also I was being a bit pedantic! Strict form on a seated press is STILL not a miltary press!:D

For strength- Military press
To just build up the shoulders- Seated shoulder press

Emmet when I do the HSPU my arms are hit for the most part as I will only get about 2 done with full ROM (these will hit my shoulders) and then after that it's all arms!

arybvtcw0eolkf

Roper wrote: »

Just quickly, I wasn't responding to the OP I was making a point about the military press not being done from a seated position which was OT I suppose. Also I was being a bit pedantic! Strict form on a seated press is STILL not a miltary press!:D

For strength- Military press
To just build up the shoulders- Seated shoulder press

Emmet when I do the HSPU my arms are hit for the most part as I will only get about 2 done with full ROM (these will hit my shoulders) and then after that it's all arms!

Since I'm a soldier everytime I press anything its a military press I guess!.

Hey, are you ever open up in your place?..

I must fly past there a few times a week with no joy.

Roper

Only in the evenings for the moment Mairt, and we're not there at all bar me doing a bit of work on the place until the 7th of January when it's bust off the turkey time!