N18 - Limerick Tunnel & South Ring Road Phase II

Jayuu

This is just crazy!

Why is it that every time one of these toll plazas opens there are major teething problems with express lanes, misidentification of vehicles and tags not being recognised? Surely any part of the sign off process should involve testing with a selection of tags from all providers to prove that the readers are working and correctly identifying the test vehicles associated with the tags. This can't be hard to do and shouldn't cost anything.

Its really not acceptable for companies who are going to make major profits not to do some decent testing to ensure that when the plazas open they are working as required. I think its time for anybody who has experienced a problem to complain to the NRA and Direct Route. Maybe if they get enough complaints somebody would take this matter a bit more seriously.

We shouldn't accept the "teething problems" excuse. Its just not good enough. :mad:

phog

Jayuu wrote: »

This is just crazy!

Why is it that every time one of these toll plazas opens there are major teething problems with express lanes, misidentification of vehicles and tags not being recognised? Surely any part of the sign off process should involve testing with a selection of tags from all providers to prove that the readers are working and correctly identifying the test vehicles associated with the tags. This can't be hard to do and shouldn't cost anything.

Its really not acceptable for companies who are going to make major profits not to do some decent testing to ensure that when the plazas open they are working as required. I think its time for anybody who has experienced a problem to complain to the NRA and Direct Route. Maybe if they get enough complaints somebody would take this matter a bit more seriously.

We shouldn't accept the "teething problems" excuse. Its just not good enough. :mad:

I agree, I was in one lane yesterday, car drove up dropped in 1.80 into the basket, barrier stays down, no one there to help, cars back log, other lane with the basket blocks up too, everyone had to reverse out to join the queue for the cashiers but at the same time trying to avoid cars speeding along joining the queues, it was crazy and scary, why didn't the control room make the decison to open the barriers and let that group of cars through, sure safety should be their priority.

niallers1

was on it twice today, saw a car being charged €3.20 both times.

I think it's broken already.

blackwarrior

Sponge Bob wrote: »

The tunnel is limited to 80kph for starters and ends north of the river on a 1970s era dualler that cannot possibly be designated motorway as it is ( crap slips and failed bog squash on the Bunratty bypass bit further west leading to that section having a scary surface nowadays)

South of the river the n69 junction is not really motorway grade and the merge lanes are not suitable for 120kph.

An N road Dualler it shall remain from Bunratty to Raheen or so as indeed shall the Athlone section of the N4 remain a dualler.

Nothing wrong with a good quality dual carriageway. When the plaza bugs are ironed out, it will be an outstanding piece of infrastructure...

I spent years trying to get through my home city of Limerick from the Shannon side to Castletroy - it was never much fun. Now it is! 10-12 minutes for this was unthinkable only a few years ago. The tunnel is Limerick's M50 - can you imagine getting around Dublin without that?

Zoney

tech2 wrote: »

I'm not sure as I decided to take off down towards the tunnel. But there were large tailbacks trying to leave at Rossbrien. It wouldnt suprise me if they did have to stop as traffic is that busy on the M20 from junction 1-2. Possible candidate for 3 lanes or an Auxillary lane in the not so far future.

It wouldn't entirely solve the issue though as J2 is very soon after J1 and plenty of traffic turns off at J2 (for the shopping centre), so you'd get crazy weaving with three lanes on this short stretch.

Long term (i.e. assuming even more traffic) it would nearly need for two lanes to be brought from the M7 as a spur apart from the M20, but parallel, with a bridge crossing the local road on the other side of M20 J2 and then joining the M20 *after* J2.

Zoney

blackwarrior wrote: »

Nothing wrong with a good quality dual carriageway. When the plaza bugs are ironed out, it will be an outstanding piece of infrastructure...

I spent years trying to get through my home city of Limerick from the Shannon side to Castletroy - it was never much fun. Now it is! 10-12 minutes for this was unthinkable only a few years ago. The tunnel is Limerick's M50 - can you imagine getting around Dublin without that?

Actually it is the SRR phase 1 (M7) and M20 that together are really more important for local Limerick traffic and more like Limerick's M50. Connecting the road to Shannon/Ennis/Galway and the northwest side of Limerick is important, but the majority of Limerick traffic is trying to get around the other 2/3s (or more in fact) of the city that SRR phase 1 and M20 serve: Raheen, Castletroy, Cork (Kerry) and Dublin Roads.

The need for a tunnel was not the only reason that things were built in the order they were - the roads built first *were* a higher priority. Think about it - they were far more revolutionary when they opened. Maybe the tunnel has changed things for peak time commuters to/from Shannon, but city traffic is mostly not affected. The M7, and the M20 in particular, instantly removed heaps of traffic from the city when they opened.

I think SRR phase 2 is more like Limerick's M1 - very very important but not as locally critical.

Wild Bill

Zoney wrote: »

Think about it - they were far more revolutionary when they opened. Maybe the tunnel has changed things for peak time commuters to/from Shannon, but city traffic is mostly not affected. The M7, and the M20 in particular, instantly removed heaps of traffic from the city when they opened.

Amen to that!

I recall a year before the the SRR opened, on a bank holiday weekend in torrential rain, taking one and a half hours (I don't exaggerate) to go from Anacotty via Childers to Adare.

With a car full of kids on the way to Kerry for the weekend. I came back via Mitchlestown - much faster it was.

Berty

I only had a discussion with my colleagues the other day telling them how traffic in Limerick used to be on the Childers Road in Limerick.

I remember watching the SRR being built and more to the point watching the DC heading off from carew park wishing it would open but it seemed to take forever.

I used to snake over through Euroville, over through Dombanna and into Annacotty with ALL the other cars from the Raheen industrial estate.

CerebralCortex

blackwarrior wrote: »

Nothing wrong with a good quality dual carriageway. When the plaza bugs are ironed out, it will be an outstanding piece of infrastructure...

I spent years trying to get through my home city of Limerick from the Shannon side to Castletroy - it was never much fun. Now it is! 10-12 minutes for this was unthinkable only a few years ago. The tunnel is Limerick's M50 - can you imagine getting around Dublin without that?

But it isn't good quality dual carriage way, there are even houses entrances onto the road in question. It's high time CPO's were executed!

Berty

CerebralCortex wrote: »

But it isn't good quality dual carriage way, there are even houses entrances onto the road in question. It's high time CPO's were executed!

At todays house prices. WHY NOT?

Anybody remember the road before the DC ever existed? I do but just barely.

Foresight is a great thing but rarely used.

Wild Bill

Berty wrote: »

Foresight is a great thing but rarely used.

!

But we're all bloody geniuses when it comes to hindsight....

Sponge Bob

From Bunratty to the N69 ( around 6/7 miles including the tunnel) will always be Dual Carriageway. Too costly to build an alternative route around it for local traffic including a second Bunratty Bypass north of Bunratty.

The 3 bridges at Bunratty are ( inter alia) early 19th century , 1960s and 1980s. Durty Nellys was the toll keepers cottage in the 19th century, the bridge was a turnpike at that time and the quay underneath that old bridge ( obliterated by the 1960s bridge) was where lighters brought sugar and tobacco ashore from boats anchored out in the Shannon.

They might fix the section around Bunratty which is evidently sinking into the marshy shannon basin .....and they might not

CerebralCortex

Sponge Bob wrote: »

From Bunratty to the N69 ( around 6/7 miles including the tunnel) will always be Dual Carriageway. Too costly to build an alternative route around it for local traffic including a second Bunratty Bypass north of Bunratty.

The 3 bridges at Bunratty are ( inter alia) early 19th century , 1960s and 1980s. Durty Nellys was the toll keepers cottage in the 19th century, the bridge was a turnpike at that time and the quay underneath that old bridge ( obliterated by the 1960s bridge) was where lighters brought sugar and tobacco ashore from boats anchored out in the Shannon.

They might fix the section around Bunratty which is evidently sinking into the marshy shannon basin .....and they might not

So they can't CPO the houses facing onto the dual carriageway? Also who gives people planning permission to build a new house on an interurban route?

Berty

CerebralCortex wrote: »

So they can't CPO the houses facing onto the dual carriageway? Also who gives people planning permission to build a new house on an interurban route?

It was a standard road long before the northbound carraigeway was ever built. The houses and/or land the houses were on(previous building knocked and rebuilt possibly) were pre existing to the dual carraigeaway.

It was the government who built a DC next to houses not the other way around. Some of the houses could have their access reversed like at Setrights but the other houses on the other side of the carraigeaway and the B&B's would be landlocked.

Sponge Bob

Berty wrote: »

It was a standard road long before the northbound carraigeway was ever built.

Exactly, the eastbound carriageway is a 1960s twin + hard shoulder road and the westbound was added in parallel 20 years later.

The original Hurlers Cross west of Bunratty was a 1970s kludge rebuilt 10 years ago with R Road interceptors on both sides of the motorway see what I mean here . The space is not available to do this further east, certainly not at a reasonable cost.

CerebralCortex

Berty wrote: »

It was a standard road long before the northbound carraigeway was ever built. The houses and/or land the houses were on(previous building knocked and rebuilt possibly) were pre existing to the dual carraigeaway.

It was the government who built a DC next to houses not the other way around. Some of the houses could have their access reversed like at Setrights but the other houses on the other side of the carraigeaway and the B&B's would be landlocked.

I'll patiently ask again, the houses can't be CPO'd?

Berty

CerebralCortex wrote: »

I'll patiently ask again, the houses can't be CPO'd?

Why would any government or PPP want to go to that trouble.

If they wont do it for the Naas Dual Carraigeaway they certainly will not do it for a few kms in Clare.

CerebralCortex

Berty wrote: »

Why would any government or PPP want to go to that trouble.

If they wont do it for the Naas Dual Carraigeaway they certainly will not do it for a few kms in Clare.

So that an inter urban route doesn't have private residences lying on it, fairly obvious no?

blackwarrior

CerebralCortex wrote: »

So that an inter urban route doesn't have private residences lying on it, fairly obvious no?

The N7 Naas dual carriageway has houses, farms, shops and business facing directly onto it. The A1 between Newry and the Northern M1 has the same.

Yes it would be perfect if all the inter-urbans were perfect motorway, but what we have now is unbeliveably good. Take it!

CerebralCortex

blackwarrior wrote: »

The N7 Naas dual carriageway has houses, farms, shops and business facing directly onto it. The A1 between Newry and the Northern M1 has the same.

Yes it would be perfect if all the inter-urbans were perfect motorway, but what we have now is unbeliveably good. Take it!

Well actually I believe it could be better. For example not granting planning permission for new houses on an interurban route (which has been done recently). I'm going to have to maintain my objection, the argument from precedent is neither sufficient nor relevent.

mossym

Berty wrote: »

I only had a discussion with my colleagues the other day telling them how traffic in Limerick used to be on the Childers Road in Limerick.

so you all agreed how much better it used be?:D its a single lane parking lot these days

course that is mainly due to the dunnes on childers road, which must be one of the worst planned developments ever

blackwarrior

CerebralCortex wrote: »

Well actually I believe it could be better. For example not granting planning permission for new houses on an interurban route (which has been done recently). I'm going to have to maintain my objection, the argument from precedent is neither sufficient nor relevent.

That's not chat! Are you in the right forum?

CerebralCortex

blackwarrior wrote: »

That's not chat! Are you in the right forum?

What?

Deedsie

Are they working today does anyone know? I want to go take a few photos and see the progress? Don't want to get ran off that site though?

Chris_5339762

CerebralCortex wrote: »

Well actually I believe it could be better. For example not granting planning permission for new houses on an interurban route (which has been done recently). I'm going to have to maintain my objection, the argument from precedent is neither sufficient nor relevent.

It would be nice to fix the sections of N18 with houses all along them and it would be nice to have the N7 Naas Road as a motorway. The former would require a complete rebuild as the curves are not up to it and it wouldnt go down well to kick everyone out of their homes (they try to keep this to a minimum). So it would have to be a new, offline project.

The Naas Road needs an alternative route for it to be motorway and another rebuild to remove private access.

Yes, both of these would be NICE, but there are far other more deserving projects out there. [Newlands, M11 gap, M20, Galway, etc etc]

CerebralCortex

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

It would be nice to fix the sections of N18 with houses all along them and it would be nice to have the N7 Naas Road as a motorway. The former would require a complete rebuild as the curves are not up to it and it wouldnt go down well to kick everyone out of their homes (they try to keep this to a minimum). So it would have to be a new, offline project.

The Naas Road needs an alternative route for it to be motorway and another rebuild to remove private access.

Yes, both of these would be NICE, but there are far other more deserving projects out there. [Newlands, M11 gap, M20, Galway, etc etc]

I never said that part of the N18 had to be a motorway. I just think its ridiculously stupid having private residences with entrances on to an interurban route. As to the N7 Nass, I never mentioned it.

Berty

CerebralCortex wrote: »

I never said that part of the N18 had to be a motorway. I just think its ridiculously stupid having private residences with entrances on to an interurban route. As to the N7 Nass, I never mentioned it.

Its not whether or not you mentioned it. It was being used by other posters to point out that it is not just the N18 that has bad planning decisions made regarding it.

Take the N25 out of Cork. It is a national route but its 120kph. That is because it is not long enough to be reclassed as a Motorway but has no private access on or off of it.

There will always be issues to consider.

It is many many years away before anything will change. Even the current NDP will take many years to achieve and CPO's will be looked at now and later more so in the consideration of infrastructural projects because they amount to a massive spend.

Small example of CPOs. There is a house on the Northern side of the Blackwater Bridge in Fermoy on the M8. It was part of the CPO and used by Roadbridge as a canteen. It is now re-occupied by new residents.

Bought and then sold again.

The houses on the N18 cannot be sold back because they will have no access so must be bought at massive markups.

marmurr1916

In fairness, most of the premises with private accesses to major dual-carriageways were built years ago, many long before traffic volumes and speed made it important to minimise or eliminate this sort of development.

In many other cases, the premises were there long before the roads were upgraded from single-carriageway to dual-carriageway.

It's not really fair to expect dual-carriageways built originally in the 1960s or early 1970s (the Naas dual-carriageway and the Limerick-Bunratty dual-carriageway) to have been built with current traffic conditions in mind.

Chris_5339762

At least Limerick - Bunratty isnt littered with traffic lights like the Naas Road originally was. Newlands is still the surviving relic of those painful days. The Naas Road badly needed its upgrade, why Newlands wasnt fixed either with that upgrade or with the M50 works I'll never know as it would have been a really cheap addition.

As for Limerick - Bunratty?? Not really any point fixing it any time soon. I reckon it never will be fixed. Traffic levels and need really dont deserve new works.

Wild Bill

OK - but why doesn't the motorway continue from the M20 junction through the tunnel till the new road meets the N18 dual carriageway?