N18 - Limerick Tunnel & South Ring Road Phase II

Chris_533976

Just a quick little update - Limerick Tunnel has updated with an Autumn newsletter.

http://www.limericktunnel.com/Downloads.html

Yes they're well ahead of schedule!

Zoney

Good stuff. By the way, the bridge over the N69 Dock Road is 5.3 m which seems a tad low considering there's trucks of all sorts have to access Limerick port and various warehouses etc. along the Dock Road.

Victor

Zoney wrote:

Good stuff. By the way, the bridge over the N69 Dock Road is 5.3 m which seems a tad low considering there's trucks of all sorts have to access Limerick port and various warehouses etc. along the Dock Road.

The tunnel itself will only be 4.65m which is what is / will be the national limit. Outsized loads. :shrug:

The port company is proposing to move.

spacetweek

This one slipped by me. I hadn't checked their progress in ages. Good to see they're getting along with it.

Victor wrote:

The port company is proposing to move.

Victor do you mean they're moving so as to avoid the tunnel as a result of the height issue?? In which case the tunnel would largely be pointless?

Zoney

spacetweek:
The port company (Shannon Foynes Port Company) would like to close Limerick Port and just use Foynes, selling the valuable land bank of the Limerick Docks. Yes, this does lessen the need for a tunnel. However, it's probably still preferable to a low bridge on environmental grounds - and while the tunnel is expensive, a bridge there would have cost a lot too (there's not much to build on!)

As an aside, now that this is split to its own thread, can the title be changed to N7 Limerick Tunnel. It will be part of that route rather than the N18 when completed.

highlydebased

Good to see its progressing well. The website has lots of useful info, thanks for link!

Victor

So where will the N18 start?

corktina

in Galway....:)


it will finish at the N20/N7 donut I would guess.....

Zoney

corktina wrote:

it will finish at the N20/N7 donut I would guess.....

No, it'll most likely finish at the end of the Southern Ring Road (which will be N7 all the way including phase 2) on the Ennis Road unless it remains N18 into the city centre.

Chris_533976

I'll pop all updates on this in here from now on, as its polluting my nice N18 thread with its N7-ness.

Winter newsletters have been posted here -

http://www.limericktunnel.com/Downloads.html

Good progress by the looks of it. Get this damn thing finished and get rid of the Limerick drivethrough bottleneck!

1huge1

Yes im sure the Limerick tunnel will have a big effect on traffic in the city, only problem I have with it is that there cutting off the road beside the quality hotel once it opens.

Zoney

That's going to be a barrel of laughs, having to access the city centre solely via Dock Road or Tipp Road if you approach the city from the N20 dual carriageway.

Dock Road is going to be pretty awful too with people accessing the ring road via the cheap and nasty junction they are planning (i.e. just a second roundabout on the other side of the ring road from the Cement Factory roundabout, and the slips either side down to those two roundabouts).

Any extra traffic on the Tipp Road junction will also be a disaster seeing as it's the most basic grade separated junction you can build - simply two staggered crossroads on top. The lights they're installing will at least let people safely make turns to/from Tipp Road, but they'll probably only increase jams on the Tipp Road itself.

Amtmann

Autumn 2008 newsletter here: http://www.nra.ie/PublicPrivatePartnership/ContractorsNewsletters/file,15764,en.pdf

gjim

This project is a typical example of the sort of wasteful strategic stupidity that we see often in Ireland.

The tunnel will have cost approximately 200million more than a high span bridge according to the initial estimates. The extra money was justified by the insistence that the Limerick docks should continue to operate as a port. In a remarkably short period of time there's been a change of mind and the port company has decided they want to sell the docks. So in effect we've spent 200 million on a feature of the bypass which offers practically no utility. In fact a well designed high span bridge like the Boyne bridge could have provided an icon for the city.

Imagine what that extra 200million could have been used for? Perhaps build an eastern bypass of the town or else make the western bypass toll-free. Even 40 or 50 million would have meant no penny pinching and corner cutting when it came to designing the junctions.

Of course nobody really gives a sh*te because they think someone else is paying for it. There's very little appreciation that public funds are OUR money and should not be p*ssed away by making basic strategic errors like this.

weehamster

The tunnel will have cost approximately 200million more than a high span bridge according to the initial estimates.

Where have you found this because according to midwestroads.ie, the high span bridge was the most expensive option.

Zoney

Yes, the land either side is almost below the river level already, so a high-span bridge would have been quite expensive!

Now a multi-span low-level bridge would indeed have been cheaper, but it would have had serious environmental impact, even if navigation on the river to Limerick is no longer a concern.

Anyway, the money will not be coming from the taxpayer per se, but from the users of the tunnel, as it is tolled.

gjim

Fair enough. I've did a quick google to see where it was I heard that figure and couldn't find it so I can't back it up. I should have gotten a reference before posting but I had a clear memory of hearing the 200 million figure.

So please ignore that post.

(I know I could edit the post but I'd rather leave it as doing so often means the subsequent posts make no sense without the context.)

Carawaystick

your point makes sense in the context of a low level bridge.
I'd imagine it'd be cheaper to build than a high span cable stayed or suspension bridge.

I vaguely remember the options and this was one, high level bridge and tunnel. high level cost most, low level blocked the now closing port....

Amtmann

Any news on this? Was it listed on the NRA's schedule for projects to be completed in 2009?

Zoney

Well, I can tell you that there is plenty of work to be observed going on again. Recently there was work starting again at the N20/N7 junction, and they're now working on the ramp in front of Crescent Shopping Centre up to the R526 (former N20) bridge for St. Nessan's Road (my guess is just a couple of months left for this to be finished off). Construction vehicles along the mainline also observed from these points and from below on the Greenfield's Road.

I haven't been out the Ennis Road way in a while, and there still wasn't any sign of more work at the N69 Dock Road junction last time I was there - but that was before the recent flurry of work, so maybe they are working there again too.

Irish and Proud

Chris_533976 wrote: »

I'll pop all updates on this in here from now on, as its polluting my nice N18 thread with its N7-ness.

Winter newsletters have been posted here -

http://www.limericktunnel.com/Downloads.html

Good progress by the looks of it. Get this damn thing finished and get rid of the Limerick drivethrough bottleneck!

...yeah, the Limerick Tunnel should do a good job when it's finished. However, the daily capacity is stated on the website as 40k - is this enough??? - like for the design year? IMO, the engineers should provide for another twin tube structure alongside the one currently under construction. If for example, additional capacity was required within 15 years, then I doubt that providing for 80k AADT between 4 cells would be unrealistic for a new design year (35 years from now). Remember, this link is doing several jobs - bypassing Limerick, carrying the AWC under the Shannon, linking much of Limerick to the Shannon Industrial complex etc.

Regards!

Zoney

Although it seems inconceivable in the current fiscal climate, we will be in a position to build roads again in the future (unless it really is endgame for Ireland). I would think that by the time the tunnel capacity is reached, we will be looking at a Northern bypass of Limerick anyway, thus taking away a fair bit of traffic from the SRR and tunnel.

Chris_533976

Furet wrote: »

Any news on this? Was it listed on the NRA's schedule for projects to be completed in 2009?

September 2010 is the official line for this. With the tunnel, its very hard to open early with all the safety/fitting/etc that has to be done.

Amtmann

Update on this on the DoT website: http://www.transport.ie/pressRelease.aspx?Id=55

rekrow

Furet wrote: »

Update on this on the DoT website: http://www.transport.ie/pressRelease.aspx?Id=55

This is an impressive piece of reporting by the DoT. The piece is entitled "Limerick Tunnel Progress Report". I could see very little regarding the progress. I hope they had more info the Minister other than what was published on the website. It was more like a rehash of the existing info. Even the completion date of 2010 is very vague. At this stage in the project you would think they'd be able to project to the month it would be completed.

The last time I passed the Ennis road end they seemed to be making good progress on the bridge but they have not started any work tying into the existing road. Not sure how long that will take.

I am surprised that they are not able to open the southern section of the road earlier than the tunnel. Taking the Cork/Kerry traffic directly off the Dock road would be a big time saving.

Chris_533976

Absolutely dismal report by the DOT. Due a Spring 09 newsletter soon, and the Limerick Tunnels newsletters are the best out there - informative, easy reading and lots of nice pictures

Zoney

Traffic on the R526 St. Nessan's Road (old N20) was rearranged on a new layout this week to facilitate the connection of the new R526 bridge (over the N7 SRR under construction) to the existing R526. When heading towards Raheen you now veer to the left of the old road and the new bridge, and twist around under the bridge (where the N7 SRR will eventually be) back to the right-hand side of the bridge (the diversion was previously entirely on the right-hand side of the bridge). The diversion is not some dirt-track either - due to the route being a main ambulance route presumably - just like the earlier diversion it's a proper road surface with kerb and pavement.

Kerbing is on place on the Crescent shopping centre side of the bridge, and They've completely dug up the old road to tie in the northern end of the bridge. It looks like it might only be a couple of weeks till traffic is brought over the new bridge.

Despite no plans for a junction here - it looks like there is land available for a slip on the northern corner (N7E->R526E) and the diversion on the west/northwest side could be amended to be a R526W->N7E slip (although presumably it will just be dug up).

Fortunately due to the Mungret railway line and Ballinacurra Creek there isn't any means of providing access to/from the N7 on the southern side (where the Crescent Shopping Centre is). Although the creek could of course be further culverted and the infrequently used railway having level crossing on slips... that would be fairly crazy though - I bet the shopping centre would like it of course, and possibly even the County Council!

Cool Mo D

The county council would definitely love it! They treat their outlying areas of Limerick City as a cash cow to be milked for all the rates they can get, while providing a minimum of decent planning. If that means enormous outlets and inappropriate development, they want in.

clon

March 09 newsletter out on the Limerick tunnel and the good news is that it now looks likely that 5km of the road from Rosbrien to Dock road will open this year, see news letter

http://www.limericktunnel.com/Downloads/Spring%202009.pdf

Zoney

I expect the R526 (old N20) to be very busy once that section of SRR opens - no more city centre access from the N20 dual carriageway (the freeflow junction near the Maldron Hotel will be missing two city-bound links), and the Dock road will be *even more* horrendous to use once the SRR opens onto it (and that's hard to imagine with the current state of the Dock Road). The Tipp Road (next junction after N20 on existing SRR) isn't a viable alternative either - it's also a mess, nevermind having to drive 2km or so around the city and then back in again on the Tipp Road.

The good news is that the bridge across the SRR mainline for the R526 (St. Nessan's Road) is having its final surface applied atm and streetlamps going up - looks like traffic might be using it within the week (allowing construction of SRR mainline beneath it), with even an operational bus bay and entrance into the shopping centre just after it. This is quite an interesting bridge, as it takes a grand curve horizontally, as well as being the modern equivalent of a humpback bridge (quite steep ramps either side). It looks quite elegant from below or back from it in the shopping centre car park.

Tech3

clon wrote: »

March 09 newsletter out on the Limerick tunnel and the good news is that it now looks likely that 5km of the road from Rosbrien to Dock road will open this year, see news letter

http://www.limericktunnel.com/Downloads/Spring%202009.pdf

Btw anyone around the Limerick area can find this as a pullout on the free limerickindependent.

Looking inside the tunnel it doesnt look as if there is enough space for dual carriageway?

I will try and get a few photos of the scheme in the next few weeks hopefully.

The Word Is Bor

No HS in the tunnel itself.

The section from Rossbrien to Dooradoyle (and probably Dock Road) will be surfaced by June but I'm not sure that it will be open to traffic.

Tech3

The Word Is Bor wrote: »

No HS in the tunnel itself.

The section from Rossbrien to Dooradoyle (and probably Dock Road) will be surfaced by June but I'm not sure that it will be open to traffic.

The new road wont be accessable until the whole road from the dock road junction to rossbrien is completely built as there is no junction between these.

Limerick- Nenagh tie in with phase 1 of the bypass seems to be taking ages to completed. Was passing the junction a few days ago and not much progress have been made from a few months ago.

mysterious

It's not acceptable for the contractos at this stage to go at that pace. It's absurd.


You wanna know who signed this contractor. Martin Cullen, the tool of all problems. Martin Cullen is literally a joke wherever he goes and whatever he does..

But can't the government sack this contractor and actually get a contractor that will finish this route in this decade. It's really not acceptable. This start way back in 2006 ffs. When all schemes were been built fast and on time if not way ahead of time.

Irish and Proud

tech2 wrote: »

Btw anyone around the Limerick area can find this as a pullout on the free limerickindependent.

Looking inside the tunnel it doesnt look as if there is enough space for dual carriageway?

I will try and get a few photos of the scheme in the next few weeks hopefully.

AFAIK, that's just one bore!

Regards!

Irish and Proud

The Word Is Bor wrote: »

No HS in the tunnel itself.

I'm not sure if it was the EIS, but I read that the tunnel was to be capable of accommodating 3 lanes each way when required. Like the M1 Boyne Bridge, that would be provision for 2 lanes + H/S each way initially.

Regards!

Zoney

Some photos of the bridge over the SRR at Dooradoyle for the R526 St. Nessan's Road. Traffic will be using this shortly - the final surface has been applied to the bridge, and the tie-ins either side are nearly (half) complete. Once traffic is on the bridge, the remaining existing road can be dug up to construct the remain half of the ramps either side.

Apologies for the poor cameraphone quality and JPEG compression. Also two crude photo edits to judiciously remove middle-of-frame poles.

View from Dooradoyle Road roundabout (Crescent shopping centre to the right):


View from Dooradoyle Road side of rbout (Dooradoyle Road has a link to N20 junction 1):


View of bridge from shopping centre car park, note the railway locomotive emerging from under the bridge - this is the Mungret line which has a level crossing on the existing St. Nessan's Road (such as remains for the next couple of days). Nice timing There is a slip off the ramp into the shopping centre carpark - just off frame to the left.


View of the southwest ramp. There is a bus bay just to the right, and the aforementioned slip is where the red car is. The dooradoyle roundabout is behind the vantage point of the photo. Note the temporary lane markings and studs for diverting both lanes of traffic over the complete half of the ramp. The work on the right of the frame appears to be a hatch that was installed at an incorrect level (the supports and so on were built before the surface) and is now being re-installed. This would be utilities previously under the footpath of the old road - not sure why they weren't fully diverted.


View on existing St. Nessan's Road of the bridge and diversion under. The northeastern bridge ramp sits right where the old road used to be - until last week the traffic was diverted to the left of this in the photo (while the initial diverting of Ballinacurra Creek and construction of the bridge took place). The diversion is now replaced by the embankment beside the bridge ramp. The track further left is the new works access for SRR at this point (SRR still to be built under bridge once the traffic is diverted over it).


View of the SRR mainline taking form to the west - the Ballinacurra Creek is just on the left edge of the frame.


View of the Ballinacurra Creek to the east - it was diverted further south, just at the point seen just below the orange mesh in the frame. It's a bit of a sorrier sight than it even was before.


View of the bridge from the east, and the traffic diversion beneath - where the SRR mainline will be constructed. Mungret railway line is under the furthest span in the frame, the creek is in a culvert.


View of SRR mainline to the east.


Northeastern end of the bridge - there is a junction with the South Circular Road immediately left of the frame - complicating matters just a tad! The surface and pavement is pretty much entirely tied in on the northern side of the ramp - just left of frame.

mysterious

Could they not put a slip here from the ring road to the Crescent? which ever section of access road closed at Rossbrien, could be put here. This would ease the Dock and Rossbrien road slightly. Also it ease the amount of traffic currently using the Dooradoyle road as a rat run to get to The Crescent and Hospital from the existing interchange on the SRR to St. nessans road at present.

Zoney

Traffic can access the Crescent via N20 junction 1 (next junction after SRR) and the R926 (N20 link road and Dooradoyle Road). This has worked very well with the present roads - the R926 outside the shopping centre is four lanes wide with cycle lanes. Providing slips at the R526 St. Nessan's Road would simply bog up the southern ring road - which is designed to bypass the city - not facilitate people hopping around doing their shopping.

However, to directly answer the question - it isn't really feasible due to the creek and the railway. You'd have to place the slip on top of a lengthy culvert for the creek, and there would be the cost, messiness and impracticality of a level crossing over the railway. If it were to link into the R526 rather than just the car park, you'd also have to mess around with more embankments and in that case, some kind of flyover contraption over the railway - with who knows what over the creek to bring the slip back down to SRR mainline level.

Thank goodness for the impracticality. National routes are not access routes for developments - that's what a comprehensive network of R and L roads should be for! Admittedly we are lacking in such regional arteries in many cities and towns around the country - but as I pointed out, the R926, being partly a new N20 link and partly a substantially upgraded road, plays this role reasonably in this case.


Google maps link to the area in question.

Tech3

I cant wait until traffic can cross that bridge. The new traffic layout has caused a lot of congestion lately in the raheen area. I guess work on the mainline should start once traffic can cross over. Btw theres no room whatsoever for a slip road near the crescent well on the northbound carriageway at least.

Chris_533976

I cant wait until traffic can bypass Limerick altogether

Amtmann

Realistically, when will all this be complete? Looking forward to using the tunnel and the M18 to Gort. Q2 2010 for the tunnel and Q3 2010 for the G-C scheme?

Tech3

It really is hard to judge when N7 tunnel phase 2 will be completed. Very hard to access any of the mainline to see what progress is being actually done on it. Wouldnt be far off the original Q4 2010 in my opinion. There is a lot of visible work to do yet ie. tie in with current N18, rossbrien free flow, dock road junction still has a lot of work to be done. G-C might even finish before it as the pace of constuction on that scheme is incredible at the moment.

Amtmann

tech2 wrote: »

G-C might even finish before it as the pace of constuction on that scheme is incredible at the moment.

Based on what we've seen so far, I wouldn't be surprised if G-C was finished by June 2010. It would be great if the two schemes opened around the same time, but obviously the sooner the tunnel is completed the better.

Tech3

Furet wrote: »

Based on what we've seen so far, I wouldn't be surprised if G-C was finished by June 2010. It would be great if the two schemes opened around the same time, but obviously the sooner the tunnel is completed the better.

It wouldnt be a suprise to me if they did finish the same quarter judging on the progress of both schemes. Also if the gort-tuam PPP was funded for around that same period there would be a few happy people around this forum

mysterious

Zoney wrote: »

Traffic can access the Crescent via N20 junction 1 (next junction after SRR) and the R926 (N20 link road and Dooradoyle Road). This has worked very well with the present roads - the R926 outside the shopping centre is four lanes wide with cycle lanes. Providing slips at the R526 St. Nessan's Road would simply bog up the southern ring road - which is designed to bypass the city - not facilitate people hopping around doing their shopping.

However, to directly answer the question - it isn't really feasible due to the creek and the railway. You'd have to place the slip on top of a lengthy culvert for the creek, and there would be the cost, messiness and impracticality of a level crossing over the railway. If it were to link into the R526 rather than just the car park, you'd also have to mess around with more embankments and in that case, some kind of flyover contraption over the railway - with who knows what over the creek to bring the slip back down to SRR mainline level.

Thank goodness for the impracticality. National routes are not access routes for developments - that's what a comprehensive network of R and L roads should be for! Admittedly we are lacking in such regional arteries in many cities and towns around the country - but as I pointed out, the R926, being partly a new N20 link and partly a substantially upgraded road, plays this role reasonably in this case.


Google maps link to the area in question.

Well I understand that, It just that I was hoping for more direct access to surrounding roads, since MandS are going ahead and the crescent is expanding. I think An bord plenala gave it permission. I'm ok with the crescent gaining expansion since it attracts shoppers from all over Munstter and MandS is needed. I don't the crescent expansion is a problem, just the traffic it generates. Could they build a road from the Dooradoyle RO and behind the existing Dooradoyle estates to the back of the Shopping centre as a dedicated road only for the S.C?? There is plenty of land to do it.

mysterious

tech2 wrote: »

I cant wait until traffic can cross that bridge. The new traffic layout has caused a lot of congestion lately in the raheen area. I guess work on the mainline should start once traffic can cross over. Btw theres no room whatsoever for a slip road near the crescent well on the northbound carriageway at least.

I was just wondering, I wasn't hopiing for an interchange here, I was just thinking could they allow inbound access from DC to St Nessans road only, where traffic from the current N20 will be now stopped into town. So all the current traffic that comes up from the N20 wont all jam at that horrible interchange at Dock road.

Poxyshamrock

Anyone know if the new flyover is open yet?

Zoney

Apparently it is: AA roadwatch post.

Amtmann

Will the tunnel be renamed closer to opening (much like the Jack Lynch Tunnel was)?

Zoney

Views of the SRR phase 2 mainline from the top of the St. Nessan's Road (R526) bridge (sorry for the poor quality - mobile phone):

View to the west (Cement Works in the distance, and yet again, photo just as a cement train was going under the bridge - you can just about spot the orange of the IÉ loco).


View to the east (Ballinacurra Creek on the right - the entire straight bank on the left is new - the water course followed the line of the part of the creek seen further back).