New Green Tax for motorists - threads merged

RobAMerc

Did I hear correctly that the looney green party have an extra "carbon" budget today ? And motor tax is gonna be a big part of it ?

I think it was on The Last word yesterday eve !!! :eek:

cashmni1

Thats mad, if thats the case. They souuldn't be allowed near a budget of any discription IMHO.
I aslo heard that one of the "Greens" was cycling into the dail not so long ago, leading by example and all that, and he was being followed by his car and driver?? I wonder is that true??

jhegarty

I think its the details on the new vrt rates

pburns

cashmni1 wrote: »

Thats mad, if thats the case. They souuldn't be allowed near a budget of any discription IMHO.
I aslo heard that one of the "Greens" was cycling into the dail not so long ago, leading by example and all that, and he was being followed by his car and driver?? I wonder is that true??

Was that not David Cameron over in Westminister (leader of Conservatives)?

That's not to say one of our Greens didn't do something similar, gob*****s!

The way I heard it road tax is rising 9-11%, the first time in 4 years. Not a huge issue IMO, given that the VRT changes are broadly positive...

Gregor Samsa

My understanding is that the Carbon Budget isn't an extra financial budget for environmental issues, but an accounting of the nation's emissions that runs in tandem with the budget that was announced yesterday.

The motor tax issue that they'll be taking about in it is a new change (not announced yesterday) that will be made for NEW cars only from 1st July 2008. They'll be taxed based solely on emissions. Existing cars will continue to be taxed under the current system.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2007/1206/budget.html

Sounds like a good idea to me.

Isn't it what every one's been calling for -"the polluter pays"?

But now that it's actually being implemented, they're "loony" and "gob*****s" :rolleyes:

RobAMerc

phutyle wrote: »

Isn't it what everyone's been calling for -"the poluter pays"?

But now that it's actually being implemented,they're "loony" and "gob*****s" :rolleyes:

This is not knee jerk I have always bashed the green gobshi*tes

The idea of polluter pays has been around for years - they are simply copying a idea from other countries years after they did it rather than coming up with a proper "polluter pays" approach - like taxing fuel and dumping road tax.

I would have alot more time for the Greens if they showed some real initiative with policies - stopped the "Tax everyone to death" ideas and actually stood up for what they supposedly believe (Rather than hide behind rad tape)

Anyway - sorry to go OT

craichoe

RobAMerc wrote: »

This is not knee jerk I have always bashed the green gobshi*tes

The idea of polluter pays has been around for years - they are simply copying a idea from other countries years after they did it rather than coming up with a proper "polluter pays" approach - like taxing fuel and dumping road tax.

I would have alot more time for the Greens if they showed some real initiative with policies - stopped the "Tax everyone to death" ideas and actually stood up for what they supposedly believe (Rather than hide behind rad tape)

Anyway - sorry to go OT

Would you give me a bloody break, Taxes can and will only go up, they were down 1.8 Billion euro to cover the Budget this year, when Ireland was supposed to have an excess of the same amount.

The Budget is there to cover the countries costs and expenses. The Greens didn't copy this idea. Its a NECESSITY because as a country we will have to pay the fines for CO2 emissions under the Kyoto protocol anyway.

Hence the polluter pays because we signed up to Kyoto in the first place.

Its hilarious when someone says "The Government should pay for it" when its our frikking money in the first place!

P.S. Road tax in Ireland is for nothing. Its MUCH higher everywhere else. Also Ireland is not the only country in the EU that has VRT.

Your going to pay more and more each year for the owning a car, deal with it and stop moaning.

P.S.

Green Tax has just been introduced this year in Holland (a week before Ireland), the tax adds 98,000 euro on to the Purchase price of a Hummer.

Nice

blackbox

Polluter pays my ar5e.

I have an older car with a big engine that admittendly emits a fairly high CO2 per km (can't get exact figure), but it only does 3000 km per year. (It's new enough to have a cat)

i.e. this car is penalised but is creating minimal pollution compared to a small car doing 30,000 km.

Anyway most of the energy is expended in making the car, not driving it. If we want to create less pollution we should keep our cars for longer (properly maintained, of course).

However this is logical, so don't expect to hear anything about it from the Greens.

kindalen

if they just taxed fuel, and got rid of tax on cars we would not have all those northern drivers buying fuel in the south..... we would all go north.

this would result in a huge hit to gov's take in tax.

E92

kindalen wrote: »

if they just taxed fuel, and got rid of tax on cars we would not have all those northern drivers buying fuel in the south..... we would all go north.

this would result in a huge hit to gov's take in tax.

yes but its drivers from the North that will be forcing us to pay some of the €270 million in carbon credits. Every litre of petrol sold is counted as 'our' emissions, even if the pollution doesn't actually take place in this country/jurisdiction depending on your political persuasion.

Riskymove

kindalen wrote: »

if they just taxed fuel, and got rid of tax on cars we would not have all those northern drivers buying fuel in the south..... we would all go north.

this would result in a huge hit to gov's take in tax.

Yes people would drive from Dublin to North for petrol?:rolleyes:

The tax per litre would not neccesarily be high, certainly not to recoup the average motor tax of a few hundred euro per annum.

gn3dr

craichoe wrote: »

P.S. Road tax in Ireland is for nothing. Its MUCH higher everywhere else. Also Ireland is not the only country in the EU that has VRT.

Really. Have you any figures to back that up? Last time I checked road tax in the UK was £150 per year for a car greater than 1600cc. Now compare that to Irish road tax and I think you'll find your statement above is wrong.

prospect

I drive a 2L diesel "SUV" that does 38.5MPG avg (my calculations not the computer) and it emits about 200g CO2 etc. I bought it second hand.

On the face of it, I drive a gas guzzling SUv yadda yadda...

Truth is:
It is more econimical than alot of smaller (physical & engine) cars.
It emits a lot less CO2 than alot of smaller (physical & engine) cars.
Approx 50% of the total Carbon emissions in a vehicles lifetime are caused during its production, buying used cars is a much greener option.
I carpool with my wife, so that means you can double my MPG and half my CO2 emissions as it is shared by two people.
I have an SUV because I tow a caravan and holiday in Ireland and the UK so I don't have to fly.

So, in effect, I would say that my motoring option is the greenest one available to me, and alot greener than many others on the road. But this government and all its predecessors donlt care about usage, or anything else, big engine, big road tax

I just cannot figure out why road tax & insurance cannot be pushed onto fuel prices. Keep the emmisions based VRT system, and reduce/eliminate VAT on all active safety features on a vehicle.

galwaytt

....eeek.....just heard it on the news!

How many car orders are going to get cancelled, now?

Henry Ford III

This could be interesting. Details?

galwaytt

listening to RTE news even as I type..........more, as they say.......as it happens

Stephen

Eh, I thought the highest band was up to about €1500 now, not 2k?

Oh wait:
Minister Gormley is expected to announce that new cars, from 1 July 2008, will encounter a staggered motor tax, which is solely based on emissions - a further attempt to encourage people to go green.

Applies to new cars only. Bugger. My car has fairly low emissions, could have saved some money

Riskymove

http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/breaking/2007/1206/breaking8.htm

info here

drdre

galwaytt wrote: »

....eeek.....just heard it on the news!

How many car orders are going to get cancelled, now?

Wow 2k, Id love to find out how many car orders are lost.People will start buying smaller engined cars and get them remapped

SEPT 23 1989

I Hate This Green Shower With A Passion
Ask These People How Much Warmer The Planet Has Got Since 1998
2000 Euro My Arse.

mike65

Band G, the top band - €2,000, reflecting CO2 emissions of over 225grams per km.

Thats my car scrapped then.

Mike.

JohnCleary

Um, this isint gonna stop mega rich people buying big SUV's

And what good is the tax going to do for the enviornment... All that this is going to do is create revenue, as if we arent taxed to the balls already. I need to get out of this country

galwaytt

225g? That's a 1.8t Audi FFS !

unkel

Stephen wrote: »

Eh, I thought the highest band was up to about €1500 now, not 2k?

Yeah it was announced in the budget yesterday and it will be valid from 1st February 2008. The highest rate will be €1343 + 11% = €1491 for cars 3000cc and more

What are you on about, galwaytt?

Edit: ah I see the article now. Looks like that applies to new cars and cars imported after that date only, Mike. So you and I are safe for now

Gormley is a coward. Too afraid to stand by his own principle of "the polluter pays"

Riskymove

My new car will just sneak into band D by like 3g/km:mad:

It will still be a little cheaper than new 1398cc tax rate so I guess its 6 months tax for now

3g/km less and I'd save €140 a year..interesting

PaddyFagan

The Minister announced that with effect from July 1st next year, there will be a "fundamental change" in the manner in which motor tax is charged for all new cars and imported cars

So any imports after that date will be subject to the new tax rates too - ouch :eek:

Paddy

mike65

Luckily my 1.8 Audi is not long for this world and any plans I had to swap the engine is now out the window. I'll tax the car for 12 months in December then scrap it at the end of 2008. Then I'll buy a Fiat 500 turbo hybrid.

Mike.

biko

"The clear objective of this new motor tax system is to influence the purchasing decisions of consumers by rewarding the buyers of low-emitting cars and charging a premium on less efficient vehicles," Mr Gormley said.

Stephen

Looks like you're ok mike, its only applying to new cars apparently.

mike65

That make no sense if so Stephen.

Mike.

JohnCleary

My tax would go DOWN to 290eur a year... that's SWEET! But, does this apply to new cars only? So an older (2002) car will still be paying the 'normal' tax (which will be close to 600eur after the 9& hike yesterday)

galwaytt

mike65 wrote: »

That make no sense if so Stephen.

Mike.

...that'll be the Greens, then :rolleyes:

cormie

Anything to slow down global warming is a good thing

SEPT 23 1989

@DS

Riskymove

It does say:

The Minister announced that with effect from July 1st next year, there will be a "fundamental change" in the manner in which motor tax is charged for all new cars and imported cars.

how can that be enforced, Tax only applies to first year? or for cars registered after 1 July??

makes no sense

surely it has to be all cars?

JoeA3

I don't quite understand "it only applies to new cars"? Does this mean the existing cc-based road tax will stay as it is indefinitely for existing cars, and any new cars reg'd after July will use the new system?
Surely older cars will eventually use the new system too?

JHMEG

Def going bringing in another Civic IMA from the UK... 114g will put it nicely at €100. Can't complain about that.

Just wonder now will I get the €2,500 grant, or part of, announced for hybrids and flexfuels?

BillyGoatGruff

Is there any website, i wonder, that gives a breakdown of emmisions on all makes and models of cars.

High&Low

Riskymove wrote: »

It does say:

The Minister announced that with effect from July 1st next year, there will be a "fundamental change" in the manner in which motor tax is charged for all new cars and imported cars.

how can that be enforced, Tax only applies to first year? or for cars registered after 1 July??

makes no sense

surely it has to be all cars?

There will be two tax regimes - one for cars registered after 1 july 08 and one for cars registered prior to that...

chris85

If other countries follow this it will be good as it will really push the car manufacturers to make cars that give out less emissions.

Good thing i think.

Wont stop the rich but the rich was not who the budget is aiming this at.

Any increase in anything will also cause people to say "wont stop the rich". The percentage of really rich people is small compared to everyone else. If it stops most other people then its good.

JHMEG

BillyGoatGruff wrote: »

Is there any website, i wonder, that gives a breakdown of emmisions on all makes and models of cars.

Yeah, Mike has posted several. Use search or google.

Riskymove

High&Low wrote: »

There will be two tax regimes - one for cars registered after 1 july 08 and one for cars registered prior to that...

surely this means everyone wanting a large emmission spouting car will just buy them now instaed of after July and we end up with an extra surplus of these which can then be sold second hand and under the current tax system

sk8board

BMW 520d is 126g,

whereas a Micra 1.2 is 146g

so the beemer is cheaper )

will be interesting to see how it effects the HOt Hatch market, or indeed the Mazda RX8 (268g) type cars.

BTW, heres the link I was using for the CO2. Every car is listed.
http://www.cleangreencars.co.uk/

Stephen

Will they make it possible to opt-in to the new system for people with pre-July 08 cars? It'd save me a few hundred a year. Therefore I doubt they will

peasant

mike65 wrote: »

That make no sense if so Stephen.

Mike.

Well ...it does.

If you buy a new car, you have the chance to compare figures, do your calculations and make an informed decision how much tax you're willing/able to pay and buy accordingly.

If you have an existing car, your decision was made based on the existing rates. It would be grossly unfair to change the rules retrospectively.
Not everybody can afford to just ditch an existing car and buy something greener tomorrow.

Ok ..so there may be few poeple out there that might get a slight tax reduction ...but also an awful lot who'd be hit big time.

Riskymove

JHMEG wrote: »

Yeah, Mike has posted several. Use search or google.

http://data.carmagazine.co.uk/gbu/

BillyGoatGruff

Thanks Risky

Riskymove

Stephen wrote: »

Will they make it possible to opt-in to the new system for people with pre-July 08 cars? It'd save me a few hundred a year. Therefore I doubt they will

another good point

people with cars like prius etc have to keep paying higher tax because of two systems??

can't be....surely...???

mike65

150 people on motors forum right now mainly looking at this thread I suspect.

Mike.

omega man

peasant wrote: »

Well ...it does.

If you buy a new car, you have the chance to compare figures, do your calculations and make an informed decision how much tax you're willing/able to pay and buy accordingly.

If you have an existing car, your decision was made based on the existing rates. It would be grossly unfair to change the rules retrospectively.
Not everybody can afford to just ditch an existing car and buy something greener tomorrow.

Ok ..so there may be few poeple out there that might get a slight tax reduction ...but also an awful lot who'd be hit big time.

Good explanation peasant. Hope thats how it will work. Seems fair if you know what financial penalties you will face when making your purchase decision.

Riskymove

sk8board wrote: »

BMW 520d is 126g,

whereas a Micra 1.2 is 146g

so the beemer is cheaper )

will be interesting to see how it effects the HOt Hatch market, or indeed the Mazda RX8 (268g) type cars.

BTW, heres the link I was using for the CO2. Every car is listed.
http://www.cleangreencars.co.uk/

according to Car Magazine the 520d has 158g so I guess we don't know who has the actual official figures that we can trust?