All non EU citizens to be figerprinted

MIN2511

It doesn't get better than this, while i understand the need to reduce crime and fraud. I believe this is a step too far:mad:
http://www.irishexaminer.com/irishexaminer/pages/story.aspx-qqqg=ireland-qqqm=ireland-qqqa=ireland-qqqid=48725-qqqx=1.asp

humbert

Seems like a good idea to me. It's just a more reliable form of identification.

mikemac

If you've nothing to hide, you have nothing to worry about.

It can also be used for the many failed asylum seekers who disappear when they are served with a deportation notice

Ruu_Old

humbert wrote: »

Seems like a good idea to me. It's just a more reliable form of identification.

Yep, it works in other countries and can be useful and more efficient in tracking immigrants. As mentioned, if you have nothing to hide then there is nothing to worry about.

MIN2511

Fair enough, but what next?
Bad enough we have to queue outside the immigration office for hours, pay €100 for a Garda card and another €100 for re entry visa. That doesn't include work visa payment of €1000, thats too much. And we still pay tax btw, i reckon we would have to pay to be fingerprinted as well:)

leninbenjamin

it's par for the course. I'm just surprised it's taken us that long to put it in place.

and if those figures are right, there are certainly a lot more expensive countries to go to then Ireland.

Rb

Definitely a good move in the right direction, am glad to see such a thing being implemented.

about fecking time

arybvtcw0eolkf

Good, about bloody time too.

Non-EU citizens coming here should have their DNA profiles recorded too.

MagicMarker

MIN2511 wrote: »

Fair enough, but what next?
Bad enough we have to queue outside the immigration office for hours, pay €100 for a Garda card and another €100 for re entry visa. That doesn't include work visa payment of €1000, thats too much. And we still pay tax btw, i reckon we would have to pay to be fingerprinted as well:)

What the fúck are you here for then??:rolleyes:

And if i'm not mistaken you get your tax back when you go home.

MagicMarker

Mairt wrote: »

Good, about bloody time too.

Non-EU citizens coming here should have their DNA profiles recorded too.

Not to mention a record of their sex face..... just in case.

Overheal

MIN2511 wrote: »

Fair enough, but what next?
Bad enough we have to queue outside the immigration office for hours, pay €100 for a Garda card and another €100 for re entry visa. That doesn't include work visa payment of €1000, thats too much. And we still pay tax btw, i reckon we would have to pay to be fingerprinted as well:)

+1. you know the cost of a 7 million euro system is going to fall on us hard. i dont see way all non-nationals arent going to be scanned: seems stupid considering all the east-EU trash that come over here to commit crime.

unreggd

Indubadably!

Good idea

Ur prints are the same from birth aint they? If so they shud take em then

MIN2511

MagicMarker wrote: »

What the fúck are you here for then??:rolleyes:

And if i'm not mistaken you get your tax back when you go home.

Ah, there is no need to get abusive. The last time i checked i am entitled to voice my opinion.
And NO we dont get our tax back.

Vorsprung

Mairt wrote: »

Good, about bloody time too.

Non-EU citizens coming here should have their DNA profiles recorded too.

Are you actually serious?! :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

MagicMarker

MIN2511 wrote: »

Ah, there is no need to get abusive. The last time i checked i am entitled to voice my opinion.
And NO we dont get our tax back.

Feel free to point out where i was abusive.

All i'm saying is, if you're not happy with it then you know what to do.

ojewriej

Overheal wrote: »

i dont see way all non-nationals arent going to be scanned: seems stupid considering all the east-EU trash that come over here to commit crime.

yeah mate, dead right. But actually given that most crimes in ireland are still committed by the Irish thugs, we should all get fingerprinted. And why stop there, we should all get these chips implanted, so the cops can see where we are at all times. I mean, if you are not a criminal, you have nothing to worry about, right?

ojewriej

ojewriej wrote: »

yeah mate, dead right. But actually given that most crimes in ireland are still committed by the Irish thugs, we should all get fingerprinted. And why stop there, we should all get these chips implanted, so the cops can see where we are at all times. I mean, if you are not a criminal, you have nothing to worry about, right?

Ah the classic thin end of the wedge argument.

MIN2511

ojewriej wrote: »

yeah mate, dead right. But actually given that most crimes in ireland are still committed by the Irish thugs, we should all get fingerprinted. And why stop there, we should all get these chips implanted, so the cops can see where we are at all times. I mean, if you are not a criminal, you have nothing to worry about, right?

LMAO
Very true, I guess that would be next. Micro chips, like animals?

MagicMarker wrote: »

What the fúck are you here for then??

That's where you were abusive

biko

Just as long as they finger print all the Americans and Australians coming over. Dodgy bunch.

arybvtcw0eolkf

bigjimthefirst wrote: »

Are you actually serious?!

Yes, I'm very serious. DNA profiles on them all.

I'd also advocate a strict detention regime be put in place until profiles are taken, plus a complete medical and criminal background check is done too.

See this all goes back to good ol' liberal fvck ass Ireland. We can talk about all the positive's immigration has brought to Ireland, but don't mention the HIV & TB explosion form Sub-Saharan Africa. Or the aggressive begging carried out by the Roma people.

No, we'd rather bury our heads in the sand and not admit to ourselves that not everything about immigration is positive.

arybvtcw0eolkf

ojewriej wrote: »

we should all get these chips implanted, so the cops can see where we are at all times. I mean, if you are not a criminal, you have nothing to worry about, right?

Your wrong, but only just.

Micro-chipping would be a violation of your body, but ankle braclets wouldn't!.

ojewriej

Mairt wrote: »

Your wrong, but only just.

Micro-chipping would be a violation of your body, but ankle braclets wouldn't!.

so you are suggesting that we all should wear tracking devices on our ankles?
Or is that just immigrants?

arybvtcw0eolkf

ojewriej wrote: »

so you are suggesting that we all should wear tracking devices on our ankles?
Or is that just immigrants?

No, it was you who suggested micro-chipping, I pointed out the alternative.

humbert

Mairt wrote: »

Yes, I'm very serious. DNA profiles on them all.

I'd also advocate a strict detention regime be put in place until profiles are taken, plus a complete medical and criminal background check is done too.

See this all goes back to good ol' liberal fvck ass Ireland. We can talk about all the positive's immigration has brought to Ireland, but don't mention the HIV & TB explosion form Sub-Saharan Africa. Or the aggressive begging carried out by the Roma people.

No, we'd rather bury our heads in the sand and not admit to ourselves that not everything about immigration is positive.

I do think a thorough medical check should be required, and probably criminal records too, but I don't know if that's feasible. DNA records just for immigrants doesn't make much sense to me though.

EDIT: Just thinking that with our medical system medical checks would probably be a vastly expensive farce.

arybvtcw0eolkf

humbert wrote: »

I do think a thorough medical check should be required, and probably criminal records too, but I don't know if that's feasible. DNA records just for immigrants doesn't make much sense to me though.

To me neither, I wouldn't mind seeing a national DNA register. But I do think finger printing and DNA profiling immigrants is a good starting point.

Vorsprung

Mairt wrote: »

Yes, I'm very serious. DNA profiles on them all.

I'd also advocate a strict detention regime be put in place until profiles are taken, plus a complete medical and criminal background check is done too.

See this all goes back to good ol' liberal fvck ass Ireland. We can talk about all the positive's immigration has brought to Ireland, but don't mention the HIV & TB explosion form Sub-Saharan Africa. Or the aggressive begging carried out by the Roma people.

No, we'd rather bury our heads in the sand and not admit to ourselves that not everything about immigration is positive.

-More Irish people commit crimes than foreigners.
-More Irish people suffer from TB than foreigners.
-HIV was a problem in Ireland long before we started getting large numbers of foreigners coming into the country.

What's this TB explosion your talking about? Should we deport all those who suffer from TB from the country? What about these kids?

ParkRunner

Fingerprinting is essential, I work in the department. So many people have several identities we need to know who is who. Some of them have found a way around it though

Vorsprung

EF wrote: »

Fingerprinting is essential, I work in the department. So many people have several identities we need to know who is who. Some of them have found a way around it though

Nothing wrong with fingerprinting at all, it's a standard method of identification. DNA profiling is a million miles from being standard though. It takes a few days to get results back on a test - not exactly practical at an immigration desk at a point of entry.

bigjimthefirst

bigjimthefirst wrote: »

-More Irish people commit crimes than foreigners.
-More Irish people suffer from TB than foreigners.
-HIV was a problem in Ireland long before we started getting large numbers of foreigners coming into the country.

There are more Irish people in this country than foreigners so naturally this would be the case. What are you trying to argue here?

bigjimthefirst wrote: »

-
What's this TB explosion your talking about? Should we deport all those who suffer from TB from the country? What about these kids?

Ireland had a huge problem TB many years ago. The fact that TB outbreak made the news is testimnent to how rare it was in modern Ireland. Where is the TB coming from I wonder..

TimTim

I don't know, I'm wary of such levels of data collection, its why I'm not such a fan of US immigration.

With everyone pushing towards biometric security I'd rather the government didn't have a complete profile on me. While normal passwords can be changed, biometric ones can't be changed.

The recent data leak from HMRC in the UK shows how dangerous the storage of large amounts of records in one place can be.

arybvtcw0eolkf

bigjimthefirst wrote: »

-What about these kids?

The last paragraph of that articule tells its own story!.

You know what, I'm old enough to remember my parents and grandparents talking about TB, and how great it was that it was erradicated from ireland in the mid-50's.

They rejoiced at the closing of the TB hospitals, not because the HSE didn't have government funding, nooooooooo, because it was here no more!.

I refer you to my first paragraph here, and the last of your articule for the answer.

Thank you. But I'm getting into the shower now and heading out for the night..

Vorsprung

Foreigners make up something like 10% of the population. I would be very surprised if that same group committed more than 10% of crime here. But if you got figures I'll stand to be corrected.

And TB is not that rare in Irish hospitals. From my experience from spending a lot of time in hospitals, it is Irish people that are more likely to be suffering from TB.

TB has been creeping up because of a new drug resistant form. This has happened to most bacteria - MRSA for example.

Either way......I don't see how your DNA profiling would solve any problems.

Lands Leaving

EF wrote: »

Fingerprinting is essential, I work in the department. So many people have several identities we need to know who is who. Some of them have found a way around it though

A way around it? what do they do? lop off someone elses hand?

Overheal

ojewriej wrote: »

yeah mate, dead right. But actually given that most crimes in ireland are still committed by the Irish thugs, we should all get fingerprinted. And why stop there, we should all get these chips implanted, so the cops can see where we are at all times. I mean, if you are not a criminal, you have nothing to worry about, right?

Why stop at microchips? I mean we already have the public surveillance: go take a walk into town some day and keep tabs on how many cameras you see around the place.
Why stop at cameras? Lets bring in unwarranted phone tapping too. Hell lets start monitoring web-traffic as well.

And now you want to include medical screening to the list?

People, people, people.

One day you can b*tch about 'oh I cant get a job!' and in the same breath 'get off my land foreigner filth!'

When you fail to realise how much of the country's commerce is done on the backs of foreign investment. If you start throwing up all of these obstacles to entry, you can bet your ass they'll think twice before coming here again. Say goodbye to your Apple/iPod Manufacturing in Cork, Your Intel Processor plant outside of Dublin, Dell Computers etc and so on and so forth. I use electronic examples cos Im sorry, thats just what I know. There are dozens more prime examples I'm sure. Feel free to throw in a few for consideration.

The point being, its convenient now for a company to come and in and start-up when their startup group (the managers, executives, consultants, etc) can all fly in without having to drop their pants and have a finger stuffed in their rectum. Who would want to give you the benefit of their jobs and money if thats how they were treated? They wouldn't stay long enough for the first Irish employee to get his foot in the door.

As a student, do you think I want to go through that annually (or every 6 months as is more usually the case) so I can stay here and pursue a course of study? Hell no. Its expensive to get screened like that. And degrading. I dont mind paying the 100/yr/6mo but now you propose that you want to have a feel of my scrote' too? **** you.

Look I can understand and appreciate the use of biometric identitification but the whole screening proposition is a wee bit too far.

Huggles

bigjimthefirst wrote: »

-More Irish people commit crimes than foreigners.
-More Irish people suffer from TB than foreigners.
-HIV was a problem in Ireland long before we started getting large numbers of foreigners coming into the country.

Sources?

arybvtcw0eolkf

bigjimthefirst wrote: »

MRSA

Yea, and I wonder where that came from too.

Funny that we never heard of ten year's ago ¬¬

Lands Leaving

Mairt wrote: »

Yea, and I wonder where that came from too.

Funny that we never heard of ten year's ago ¬¬

I believe mrsa is a by-product of dirty hospitals rather than immigration

bigjimthefirst

bigjimthefirst wrote: »

Foreigners make up something like 10% of the population. I would be very surprised if that same group committed more than 10% of crime here. But if you got figures I'll stand to be corrected.

With an argument this compelling who needs hard facts!

Overheal

Overheal wrote: »

Why stop at microchips? I mean we already have the public surveillance: go take a walk into town some day and keep tabs on how many cameras you see around the place.
Why stop at cameras? Lets bring in unwarranted phone tapping too. Hell lets start monitoring web-traffic as well.

And now you want to include medical screening to the list?

People, people, people.

One day you can b*tch about 'oh I cant get a job!' and in the same breath 'get off my land foreigner filth!'

When you fail to realise how much of the country's commerce is done on the backs of foreign investment. If you start throwing up all of these obstacles to entry, you can bet your ass they'll think twice before coming here again. Say goodbye to your Apple/iPod Manufacturing in Cork, Your Intel Processor plant outside of Dublin, Dell Computers etc and so on and so forth. I use electronic examples cos Im sorry, thats just what I know. There are dozens more prime examples I'm sure. Feel free to throw in a few for consideration.

The point being, its convenient now for a company to come and in and start-up when their startup group (the managers, executives, consultants, etc) can all fly in without having to drop their pants and have a finger stuffed in their rectum. Who would want to give you the benefit of their jobs and money if thats how they were treated? They wouldn't stay long enough for the first Irish employee to get his foot in the door.

As a student, do you think I want to go through that annually (or every 6 months as is more usually the case) so I can stay here and pursue a course of study? Hell no. Its expensive to get screened like that. And degrading. I dont mind paying the 100/yr/6mo but now you propose that you want to have a feel of my scrote' too? **** you.

Look I can understand and appreciate the use of biometric identitification but the whole screening proposition is a wee bit too far.

What utter twaddle. You have basicly caricatured the argument and then sucessfully argued against yourself!

ojewriej

Mairt wrote: »

No, it was you who suggested micro-chipping, I pointed out the alternative.

Well it's a different method, but still the same result - a tracking device is a tracking device, wheteher it's a chip or ankle braceelet. So my question still stands.

MagicMarker

MIN2511 wrote: »

That's where you were abusive

Obviously you're a very sensitive person. So boards may not be for you in the long run. Good luck with it though;)

MIN2511

Overheal wrote: »

People, people, people.

One day you can b*tch about 'oh I cant get a job!' and in the same breath 'get off my land foreigner filth!'

When you fail to realise how much of the country's commerce is done on the backs of foreign investment. If you start throwing up all of these obstacles to entry, you can bet your ass they'll think twice before coming here again. Say goodbye to your Apple/iPod Manufacturing in Cork, Your Intel Processor plant outside of Dublin, Dell Computers etc and so on and so forth. I use electronic examples cos Im sorry, thats just what I know. There are dozens more prime examples I'm sure. Feel free to throw in a few for consideration.

The point being, its convenient now for a company to come and in and start-up when their startup group (the managers, executives, consultants, etc) can all fly in without having to drop their pants and have a finger stuffed in their rectum. Who would want to give you the benefit of their jobs and money if thats how they were treated? They wouldn't stay long enough for the first Irish employee to get his foot in the door.

As a student, do you think I want to go through that annually (or every 6 months as is more usually the case) so I can stay here and pursue a course of study? Hell no. Its expensive to get screened like that. And degrading. I dont mind paying the 100/yr/6mo but now you propose that you want to have a feel of my scrote' too? **** you.

Look I can understand and appreciate the use of biometric identitification but the whole screening proposition is a wee bit too far.

· Microsoft
· Xerox,
· Dell
· Deloitte
· Grant Thornton
· Tesco
· Aldi
· Mac Donalds
· Hilton hotels
· Google

The list is endless.... So many foreign companies that come here for the low business tax, if you want to get rid of all the foreigners then you are getting rid 75% of the economy.

http://www.amcham.ie/article.cfm?idarticle=461

Statso

Might help stop the eastern european crime syndicates over here. I couldn't believe it when a Garda mate of mine told me about the Russian Mafia trying to get themselves a nice slice of the crime profits over here now. We have enough scumbags in this country without other professional criminals coming in. If the immigrants are totally legal and have nothing to hide then they don't have to worry about this at all as some people said.

Goldenquick

Are we saying here that fingerprinting will stop diseases coming into the country? Apologies for putting silly, silly silly, everyone is entitled to their personal opinions.

Facts below:

One of my daughters had an operation in a hospital in Ireland 12 years ago and had to be recalled to a clinic to get tested for TB as one of the cleaners on the ward had just tested positive for it, an Irish worker btw.

My youngest daughter' friends mother died from TB when the friend was 4. My daughter's friend herself had to spend a year in hospital because she got TB. That was also 12 years ago.

On another note, I first came across MRSA 14 years ago in England, we were told my friend who was dying was the first person to get it in a Nottingham, the only other cases heard about it at that time were in a London hospital. An English doctor had just recently relocated to Nottingham from the particular London hospital, the nurse told us infection control had informed them of this.

In a hospital here, my sister's uncle-in-law had MRSA, a ward helper came in to clean the floor after he missed the commode, being an old man he couldn't help that. The ward helper cleaned the floor with paper towels, she had no gloves on, she then continued out through a full ward of patients, one of whom called out to ask her for something, she put the wet urine soaked towels on the window and went to help out this other patient, touching him in the process. My sister mentioned this to one of the nurses who said, "ah sure, it's all hype about this MRSA, we've got no directives about it at all". This was only 4 years ago.

No I won't be laying the blame for any of the diseases we have here on people coming into the country, I lay the blame solely on the government/s not listening and trying to shove it under the carpet.

Edited to add, yes I do think fingerprinting is a good idea, there are far too many criminals being admitted to Ireland, if there was a fingerprint system in place that can immediately check with the country they are coming from to see if they have criminal convictions, brilliant, they can be turned around at immigration.

MIN2511

The immigrants that are referred to in the article are non European, so eastern European crime lords are allowed to commit crimes :)there is no need to get their finger prints as it's only the non Europeans that commit crimes:D

humbert

Goldenquick wrote: »

Are we saying here that fingerprinting will stop diseases coming into the country? Silly silly silly.

Nobody said that, or even implied that.

Richard W

I don't see why anyone would be opposed to having a record of their fingerprint on file. It's simply another form of identification. To say that it's on par with a microchip implanted in you is absolutely ridiculous. It's much more comparable to a record of your name.

humbert

MIN2511 wrote: »

The immigrants that are referred to in the article are non European, so eastern European crime lords are allowed to commit crimes :)there is no need to get their finger prints as it's only the non Europeans that commit crimes:D

My understanding would be that this is put in place to keep track of illegal immigrants, or immigrants who remain illegally, not to prevent criminals entering that country.

SimpleSam06

So lets say johnny foreigner docks up at Dublin airport, and gets fingerprinted: what good will it do? In order to prove previous criminal activities you have to

a) assume that they were fingerprinted by their own government
b) assume that these fingerprints were successfully converted to an accurate digital copy
c) assume that said government has compatible systems with your own so you can run a search for these fingerprints
d) assume that they are even willing to do so
e) and have a place to keep johnny while the system tries to speak with its counterpart in Nigeria or Uzbekhistan without clogging up the whole airport.

While it would catch a minority of individuals who committed crimes in the EU or the US, and somehow returned and managed to get to Ireland, for the most part it would be nothing but an inconvenience to travellers and migrants. Mind you, there is a certain element of quid pro quo with the US, the old spies trick; you take the fingerprints of our citizens, we get the prints of yours, and we swap them around. All nice and legal.

I am definetely in favour of mandatory testing for disease at the borders however, and turning away flat anyone with a disease as serious as AIDs, for example.

Overheal

ronoc wrote: »

What utter twaddle. You have basicly caricatured the argument and then sucessfully argued against yourself!

my argument serves a warning to what can happen if you concede to one thing - it starts with fingerprints (grand) then in 5 years its microchips and retinal scans and medical screening.
Basically Im against this notion of disease control. I mean, so what if I happen to have AIDs? isnt that my own problem? What if you were to contract AIDs? Will we deport you too?
Not to mention how impractical such screening would be at Shannon/Dublin, say.

Feel free to support your biometrics but dont be shocked when foreign investment and tourism starts to fall backward. If not now then when the next 'level of security' is implemented. Honestly I wouldnt be able to stand going back to the USA if I werent a national: how much crap do [we] put you through? Its a wonder you come at all.