Irish Naturalisation : processing time and final stage

maninasia

Nodin wrote: »

I did, as I did the many other posters on the thread. They refer to inconsistencies, delays and inneffecieny. A person applying to this country to get in is entitled to an answer in a reasonable period of time.

That's the point alright...speed up the process...that's all we are asking for!

sideshowsue

278. Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin asked the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform the number of pending naturalisation applications that were filed in 2006; the number that were filed in 2005; and the number that were filed in previous years. [18802/09]

Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform (Deputy Dermot Ahern): The following is a breakdown of the number of applications for certificates of naturalisation received from 2002 - 2006 and the number pending a decision.

Year....No. of applications received....No. of applications pending
2001...................1,431..................................0
2002...................3,574..................................2
2003...................3,580................................26
2004...................4,074................................87
2005...................4,527...............................470
2006...................7,030............................3,019

Mort5000

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0519/immigration.html

Amusing.

Nodin

Mort5000 wrote: »

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0519/immigration.html

Amusing.

Brings to mind this....

W[SIZE=-1]HAT[/SIZE] need you, being come to sense,[SIZE=-2] [/SIZE]But fumble in a greasy till[SIZE=-2] [/SIZE]And add the halfpence to the pence[SIZE=-2] [/SIZE]And prayer to shivering prayer, until[SIZE=-2] [/SIZE]You have dried the marrow from the bone;[SIZE=-2] 5[/SIZE]For men were born to pray and save:[SIZE=-2] [/SIZE]Romantic Ireland’s dead and gone,[SIZE=-2] [/SIZE]It’s with O’Leary in the grave

http://www.bartleby.com/147/5.html

LawnMower Man

Anyone know how long does it take for them to get Garda clearance and social welfare clearance? They say 3-6 months on the phone but my Wife been waiting 8 months (3 Years waiting in Total since she applied & 8 years living here in total) Also do they need some sort of social welfare report?

procure11

Abed wrote: »

I really don't think it makes any difference if you are married to an Irish citizen regarding speeding up your application. (I'm married to an Irish citizen myself and have been waiting long enough). the only category with quicker procedures is refugees of which I know two people who had their applications processed in 8 months only. both of them were granted citizenship, non of them has ever worked!

I love Boards.ie,I'm literarily addicted to it.It never ceases to amaze me how people just make up stories to accentuate their points...but I suppose because it is a faceless medium we are bound to be subjected to a lot of nonsense but that's what makes it fun.

Abed,I can categorically tell you that your statements about two jobless people getting their citizenship processed in 8 months( and was successful) is definitely and absolutely false.

I understand that when it comes to some issues some people have extraordinary convictions and would go to any length to prove their points,but this one went beyond the line.

Mort5000

procure11 wrote: »

... about two jobless people ...

I believe "refugees" is the qualification that caused them to be processed quickly. The joblessness has no bearing on that particular situation.

The rumour certainly does go that the department is swamped due to the number of refugees that it is handling, and that is what is contributing to naturalization delays.

procure11

SWL wrote: »

Only a matter of time before the race card was played - if you read the thread you will see that I don't have problem with naturalisation of individuals, however just because people apply, don't mean they should automatically get which is what most are saying. Checks and procedures should be carried out, and the points I have made are being agreed with by naturalised citizens.

I totally agree with you that it is a priviledge...anyone who thinks otherwise must be quite confused.
Having said that,because we agree it is a priviledge does not mean it should be inefficiently processed and sometimes unjustly.I personally find it very worrying that it takes 30 months to process a citizenship application for whatever reason at all.

When an application is submitted to the INIS,they basically check for 3 things:-

a) The applicants Immigration history ie their timeline in the state and whether they are actually who they claim to be and also to confirm that the applicant has resided in the state for the required minimum duration which is usually 5 years.

b) The applicants employment history ie to confirm that they have been gainfully employed for the duration of their stay ,so they require the applicant to submit their P60's etc.

c) To check their criminal background so as to determine that they have at least been of acceptable behaviour during their stay .


Imho,I dont see why it should take almost 3 years to effectively check the above.If we analyse this in terms of best practise,Ireland performs the worst in the OECD.In the UK it takes just 6 months,while in Canada it is sometimes as low as 3 months and so on and so forth.

For people who suggest that Ireland has enough citizens already so there would be no need naturalising any persons further..my responce would be simply ,while I understand where they are coming from but that is absolutely abysmal and outlandish...we live in the real world here ..you cannot eat your cake and have it and what is good for the goose is surely good for the gander,you cannot expect to be treated fairly as a foreigner in another country but decide not extend the same to immigrants in your country.

procure11

Mort5000 wrote: »

I believe "refugees" is the qualification that caused them to be processed quickly. The joblessness has no bearing on that particular situation.

The rumour certainly does go that the department is swamped due to the number of refugees that it is handling, and that is what is contributing to naturalization delays.

The fact that they are refugees does not mean their cases would be expedited in any way.The only concession they get (which I think is unfair) is that they can apply after just 3 years in the state as opposed to other applicants who have to be legally resident for 5 years.

It is also not true that the number of applications from refugees would contribute to the delays in processing applications because if we believe what the INIS website says they are being treated in chronological order so effectively if I apply today and a refugee applies in 2 months time ,I should get a responce before that person but unfortunately ,that is not the case at all.

Mort5000

Rephrase:

There is one department dealing with refugee asylum applications and naturalisation applications.
Due to the number of members of staff dealing with refugees seeking asylum, the number of members of staff dealing with naturalisation applications is lower.

So,
Yes,
All applications for naturalisation are dealt with in chronological order.
And,
All refugee asylum applications are dealt with a higher priority than application for naturalisation.

*breathe*

SWL

procure11 wrote: »

I totally agree with you that it is a priviledge...anyone who thinks otherwise must be quite confused.
Having said that,because we agree it is a priviledge does not mean it should be inefficiently processed and sometimes unjustly.I personally find it very worrying that it takes 30 months to process a citizenship application for whatever reason at all.

When an application is submitted to the INIS,they basically check for 3 things:-

a) The applicants Immigration history ie their timeline in the state and whether they are actually who they claim to be and also to confirm that the applicant has resided in the state for the required minimum duration which is usually 5 years.

b) The applicants employment history ie to confirm that they have been gainfully employed for the duration of their stay ,so they require the applicant to submit their P60's etc.

c) To check their criminal background so as to determine that they have at least been of acceptable behaviour during their stay .


Imho,I dont see why it should take almost 3 years to effectively check the above.If we analyse this in terms of best practise,Ireland performs the worst in the OECD.In the UK it takes just 6 months,while in Canada it is sometimes as low as 3 months and so on and so forth.

For people who suggest that Ireland has enough citizens already so there would be no need naturalising any persons further..my responce would be simply ,while I understand where they are coming from but that is absolutely abysmal and outlandish...we live in the real world here ..you cannot eat your cake and have it and what is good for the goose is surely good for the gander,you cannot expect to be treated fairly as a foreigner in another country but decide not extend the same to immigrants in your country.

How’s does your country treat immigrants, and how long does it take to become a naturalized citizen in your country, of course you think its "abysmal and outlandish" it in your interest to view it that way.

Why exactly do you want to become an Irish citizen?

Irish people in other countries are there on visa, don't see them demanding citizenship in 30 months. If they are not there on a visa they should be deported. To suggest that immigrants are being unfairly treated in this country means you haven't lived in many others total BS. Where exactly do we draw the line, or do we continue to grant passports to people because they are requested and the subsequent effects on the SW payments as most may not find work and as citizens that would be entitled to it.

I have lived in many countries however I never expected that in perpetuity I should expect a visa, a job or an entitlement to citizenship, when my visa was up I was gone that the way the real world works,

As for the link regarding fees i have paid fees for visa in the past nothing is for free so get used to or If you’re not happy with it don’t apply

Mena

SWL wrote: »

How’s does your country treat immigrants, and how long does it take to become a naturalized citizen in your country, of course you think its "abysmal and outlandish" it in your interest to view it that way.

How is that relevant? Bottom line here is that the processing times are ridiculous. There is no way, based on the current numbers, it should take longer than 3 or 4 months.

SWL wrote: »

Why exactly do you want to become an Irish citizen?

I don't see how this is in any way relevant to the argument,a and frankly, none of your business.

SWL wrote: »

Irish people in other countries are there on visa, don't see them demanding citizenship in 30 months.

You're misstating the argument. Firstly, it's not citizenship in 30 months, it's possible citizenship in 96 months. Certainly not 30. People here are on visa's as well, what exactly is your point?

SWL wrote: »

If they are not there on a visa they should be deported. To suggest that immigrants are being unfairly treated in this country means you haven't lived in many others total BS.

You're trying to obfuscate the argument here again. Why strive to match the lowest common denominator? All we are looking for is a clear and transparent means to utilise the law as it stands.

SWL wrote: »

Where exactly do we draw the line, or do we continue to grant passports to people because they are requested and the subsequent effects on the SW payments as most may not find work and as citizens that would be entitled to it.

I sounds like you're saying no more citizens please. If that's where you're headed I personally cannot engage with you in this thread. It's totally unrealistic. Secondly, citizenship affords no added benefits i.r.o. social welfare that I am aware off. SW benefits are derived based on the habitual residency rules.

SWL wrote: »

I have lived in many countries however I never expected that in perpetuity I should expect a visa, a job or an entitlement to citizenship, when my visa was up I was gone that the way the real world works,

You're ignoring another aspect of migration, i.e. the permanent kind. Not all of us came here to make a quick buck and then move on, some of us made the decision to move permanently. We have fulfilled all criteria as currently stated by the law, and simply want due process. Being forced to wait an additional 30 months over and above the initial 60 simply so that INIS can perform three or four simple checks is ridiculous.

KINGVictor

SWL wrote: »

How’s does your country treat immigrants, and how long does it take to become a naturalized citizen in your country, of course you think its "abysmal and outlandish" it in your interest to view it that way.

Why exactly do you want to become an Irish citizen?

Irish people in other countries are there on visa, don't see them demanding citizenship in 30 months. If they are not there on a visa they should be deported. To suggest that immigrants are being unfairly treated in this country means you haven't lived in many others total BS. Where exactly do we draw the line, or do we continue to grant passports to people because they are requested and the subsequent effects on the SW payments as most may not find work and as citizens that would be entitled to it.

I have lived in many countries however I never expected that in perpetuity I should expect a visa, a job or an entitlement to citizenship, when my visa was up I was gone that the way the real world works,

As for the link regarding fees i have paid fees for visa in the past nothing is for free so get used to or If you’re not happy with it don’t apply

How his country treats immigrants is immaterial in the discussion,if he has resided in Ireland for five years legally ,he has every right to file for citizenship.it is common practise and irish citizens enjoy the same entitlements in other countries.

Why Does he want be an Irish citizen?...god what cheek...whats your business with that.Why are the thousands of Irish people in the USA seeking an amnesty...another codeword for asylum..thats very personal to each individual.Ireland is relatively a very prosperous country where they can live without any fear but yet they decide to stay there for personal reasons....not your business..not mine.And regarding your ranting about being well travelled and not contravening any immigration law...congratulations ..good for you..BUT the same cannot be said about the thousands of Irish in America,Canada and Australia living illegally

InFront

SWL I've just read the thread and despite what you seem to think nobody is countering an "automatic right" to citizenship. What applicants want is a fair and reasonable length of time to wait for a decisio to be made. Do you really think that this is so unreasonable in light of how Ireland compares to the UK or Australia in terms of naturalisation applications? Do you really think the system is benefiting either the Irish citizen as taxpayer or the applicant as taxpayer or the applicant as a ready willing and eager potential citizen?

Reading this thread, I am glad that my own dealings with the immigration services are over. I have been a citizen for over five years now and I can only say that every time I hear about or sometimes indirectly deal with the GNIB/ INIS through the applications of college friends or casual acquaintances I am convinced that this service is working for absolutely nobody, not applicants (successful or not) nor citizens.

Mort5000

LawnMower Man wrote: »

Anyone know how long does it take for them to get Garda clearance and social welfare clearance? They say 3-6 months on the phone but my Wife been waiting 8 months (3 Years waiting in Total since she applied & 8 years living here in total) Also do they need some sort of social welfare report?

Mine took around 4 months, and that was at the beginning of this year.

The only advice I can give is that you forget about the application. Put it to the back of your mind and just treat the eventual arrival of THAT letter as a pleasant surprise.

No amount of questioning, whining, ranting, crying will change anything.

procure11

Mort5000 wrote: »

Rephrase:

There is one department dealing with refugee asylum applications and naturalisation applications.
Due to the number of members of staff dealing with refugees seeking asylum, the number of members of staff dealing with naturalisation applications is lower.

So,
Yes,
All applications for naturalisation are dealt with in chronological order.
And,
All refugee asylum applications are dealt with a higher priority than application for naturalisation.

*breathe*

Thats False(once again).It is known as the Irish Nationalisation and immigration Service and like most Immigration Bodies in developed countries ,they are broken into different sections and in the case of INIS ,they have the

-Asylum section
-Visa section
-Citizenship section
_Eu Treaty rights

etc
You cannot be seriously suggesting that INIS would be so inept as to have such a dysfunctional organisational structure like the one you described.


Most of the delays are attributed to outside agencies like Gardai,Revenue,Social welfare so it has nothing to do with shortage of staff.The Staff/applicant ratio is still lower in ireland compared to the Uk so thats not a good enough excuse for the constant delays.

Mort5000

procure11 wrote: »

Thats False(once again)

All of this is speculation, unless you work there?
I'm merely commenting from a) my personal experience and b) the reasons my lawyer gave me for the delays.

procure11 wrote: »

...You cannot be seriously suggesting that INIS would be so inept...

I wouldn't dream of it!
The performance speaks for itself.

procure11 wrote: »

Most of the delays are attributed to outside agencies like Gardai,Revenue,Social welfare so it has nothing to do with shortage of staff.The Staff/applicant ratio is still lower in ireland compared to the Uk so thats not a good enough excuse for the constant delays.

Oh... really?
Are you sure you don't work there?

Have a <unnamed carbonated drink> and a smile.

sovtek

procure11 wrote: »

we live in the real world here ..you cannot eat your cake and have it and what is good for the goose is surely good for the gander,you cannot expect to be treated fairly as a foreigner in another country but decide not extend the same to immigrants in your country.

I totally agree with this. Unfortunately it is the policy of the government to do just that. All we have to do is look at the actions of the previous and immediate Taoiseach have lobbied the US goverment to treat Irish "illegals" in America better than everyone one else "illegally".

Nodin

SWL wrote: »

Irish people in other countries are there on visa, don't see them demanding citizenship in 30 months. If they are not there on a visa they should be deported.

There's an estimated 30,000 Irish 'illegals' in the US and the Irish Government has tried to have them given an amnesty.

SWL

Nodin wrote: »

There's an estimated 30,000 Irish 'illegals' in the US and the Irish Government has tried to have them given an amnesty.

So they should be deported if there illegally, all Irish people I know would say the same, because we have discussed it, your and other posters argument holds no water in my eyes just because Irish people live in other countries foreigners should be given citizenship or the numbers here can continue to grow in perpetuity, every country is entitled to control its boarders and decide citizenship rights. If Irish people are illegal they should be deported, so nice try but I and my Irish friends don’t care about Irish in USA.

Its always amazes me why all foreigners in Ireland are happy to tow the party line in relation to citizenship and immigration in general, certainly from viewing your posts you will agree with anybody who complains openly about the "racist Irish" or other immigration issues and I say this as a foreigner myself, do you ever look at the bigger picture and even try to see where Irish people are coming from.

Would I get naturalization in Nigeria as a Scandinavian male, how much would it cost officially or unofficially, would I get a job, and how would I be treated, on this threads and others a lot of people from other countries are very quick to judge Ireland and criticize when their country of origin is a lot worse in many many ways.

I have lived here for years almost 15, having lived with Irish lads in Australia, so I have a lot of Irish friends who discuss all political issues.

Many of them are growing tired of listening to discussion about how the country is governed and PC issues; the Irish are in other country etc.

If USA, Canada and Australia produce citizenship faster than Ireland then you backed the wrong house if that s what you came for, if you came for work and an easy lifestyle you made the correct decision, so best of luck trying to get access to the USA post 911.

The process may take longer then you want but that is one of the countries characteristic and probably no longer than your own country.

Also a lot of posters seem to suggest that the GNIB are not transparent that is stretching creditability.

SWL

sovtek wrote: »

I totally agree with this. Unfortunately it is the policy of the government to do just that. All we have to do is look at the actions of the previous and immediate Taoiseach have lobbied the US goverment to treat Irish "illegals" in America better than everyone one else "illegally".

You have been badly treated, I don't think so, just because you didn't get the passport you from previous posts pretty much demanded, good to have someone like you in Ireland, if you don't like here trying getting your passport in another country like USA or Canada or better go to Australia and see how the authorities will treat you there, I am sure you did well out of Ireland if you didn't you wouldn't stay here, you are owed nothing like me no one is keeping us here we can go any time we want.

As for the illegal Irish refer to my pervious post most Irish people saw that fro what it was Bertie acting like a knob nothing new there, all my Irish friends suggest that they are deported

Nodin

SWL wrote: »

So they(....)USA.

You stated

Irish people in other countries are there on visa, don't see them demanding citizenship in 30 months

I was just pointing out how utterly incorrect you were. Theres also Irish "illegals" in Australia and NZ, but I've no idea how many.

SWL wrote: »

Its always amazes me (................) creditability.[/font]

I was born here, chuckles, some 40 years ago. So were my parents, grandparents etc back on down to time immemorial. I thus find it most amusing that you, a self admitted "Foreigner" are both labelling me one and claiming to be speaking for me......"try to see where Irish people are coming from".....thats a good one that is.

Kotek Besar

There's no one as Irish as Barack Obama.

Serenity Now!

SWL wrote: »

So they should be deported if there illegally, all Irish people I know would say the same, because we have discussed it, your and other posters argument holds no water in my eyes just because Irish people live in other countries foreigners should be given citizenship or the numbers here can continue to grow in perpetuity, every country is entitled to control its boarders and decide citizenship rights. If Irish people are illegal they should be deported, so nice try but I and my Irish friends don’t care about Irish in USA

You and these pals of yours are making the same old mistake in discussing immigration and illegal immigration as the same subject with identical causes and effects.
It was you who brought up the Irish abroad in the first place and you who took the tired old moral relativism route by asking someone how their country treats immigrants :rolleyes:

KINGVictor

SWL wrote: »

So they should be deported if there illegally, all Irish people I know would say the same, because we have discussed it, your and other posters argument holds no water in my eyes just because Irish people live in other countries foreigners should be given citizenship or the numbers here can continue to grow in perpetuity, every country is entitled to control its boarders and decide citizenship rights. If Irish people are illegal they should be deported, so nice try but I and my Irish friends don’t care about Irish in USA.

Its always amazes me why all foreigners in Ireland are happy to tow the party line in relation to citizenship and immigration in general, certainly from viewing your posts you will agree with anybody who complains openly about the "racist Irish" or other immigration issues and I say this as a foreigner myself, do you ever look at the bigger picture and even try to see where Irish people are coming from.

Would I get naturalization in Nigeria as a Scandinavian male, how much would it cost officially or unofficially, would I get a job, and how would I be treated, on this threads and others a lot of people from other countries are very quick to judge Ireland and criticize when their country of origin is a lot worse in many many ways.

I have lived here for years almost 15, having lived with Irish lads in Australia, so I have a lot of Irish friends who discuss all political issues.

Many of them are growing tired of listening to discussion about how the country is governed and PC issues; the Irish are in other country etc.

If USA, Canada and Australia produce citizenship faster than Ireland then you backed the wrong house if that s what you came for, if you came for work and an easy lifestyle you made the correct decision, so best of luck trying to get access to the USA post 911.

The process may take longer then you want but that is one of the countries characteristic and probably no longer than your own country.

Also a lot of posters seem to suggest that the GNIB are not transparent that is stretching creditability.

Thats the opinion of your friends and yourself but not the policy of the Irish government that represents you.They have been actively convassing for amnesty for the illegal Irish people because they feel it would be in the interest of the Irish state or else they would not extensively lobby for them.

The belief of your friends and you holds very little bearing on public opinion and more importantly Government policy.

SWL

Nodin wrote: »

You stated



I was just pointing out how utterly incorrect you were. Theres also Irish "illegals" in Australia and NZ, but I've no idea how many.



I was born here, chuckles, some 40 years ago. So were my parents, grandparents etc back on down to time immemorial. I thus find it most amusing that you, a self admitted "Foreigner" are both labelling me one and claiming to be speaking for me......"try to see where Irish people are coming from".....thats a good one that is.

To borrow a saying you use yourself have you any proof or statistics on the illegal Irish in Australia and NZ, because I have never met them, also I am sure (I could be incorrect) you have stated you are Nigerian on other posts.

As for speaking on your behalf as an Irish person, you're views in my experience don't represent the majority you and I both know that.

SWL

Serenity Now! wrote: »

You and these pals of yours are making the same old mistake in discussing immigration and illegal immigration as the same subject with identical causes and effects.
It was you who brought up the Irish abroad in the first place and you who took the tired old moral relativism route by asking someone how their country treats immigrants :rolleyes:

Incorrect I responded to the tiresome one horse argument of the Irish exist in other countries. I think it is a fair question to ask, how would an Irish person be treated in the country of origin

After all the poster did say what is good for the goose is good for the gander and that was my point if that is the case how would Irish people be treated in other countries no better and no worse?

By some post you would think immigrants were badly treated and that is incorrect, there is more harmony here than anywhere else in Europe even in Sweden, immigrants should openly acknowledge that instead of always painting an inaccurate picture

Nodin

SWL wrote: »

To borrow a saying you use yourself have you any proof or statistics on the illegal Irish in Australia and NZ,.

I believe I said I had none.....

SWL wrote: »

because I have never met them,,.

I never met a Maori. Do they not exist either?

SWL wrote: »

also I am sure (I could be incorrect) you have stated you are Nigerian on other posts.,,.

Ahahahahaha....O you're a good one, you are. I never stated any such thing - even for comic effect to wind up Nigero-phobes.

Do you check under your bed for them?

sovtek

sovtek wrote: »

I totally agree with this. Unfortunately it is the policy of the government to do just that. All we have to do is look at the actions of the previous and immediate Taoiseach have lobbied the US goverment to treat Irish "illegals" in America better than everyone one else "illegally".

sovtek,it always amuses me when I see a U.S passport holder being grilled at the garda desks for non EU passports at Dublin airport.
I just find it amusing that we'd want to keep them out.

I can understand that approach being taken towards non EU economic refugee's from poor countries.

As for the Irish Govt lobbying in the states for our citizens...Isn't that their job?They are elected to represent Irish people.
If they do an effective job in getting the illegal irish some status in the states,then they have done it well.
It's not our fault that other countries don't lobby as good as the Irish do in other lands.
It's their countries fault for not putting the case as well as we do.
It's their fault.
You can't call the Irish hypocrites for only having a mandate for their own electorate/diaspora.

Nodin

Deleted User wrote: »

I just find it amusing that we'd want to keep them out.

....obviously the thought of having cheese on everything, NASCAR as the national sport and white shiny teeth flashing at you from every gob doesn't fill you with the same terror as it does the custodians of our borders.....