Lazy Teachers

rainbowtrout

dame wrote: »

I'll bet that at least 95% of them were at least mildly, if not wildly, exaggerating. Was the principal or vice-principal present by any chance? Sounds like they were all jumping on the band-wagon and making sure everyone knew how dedicated they are.

Not really, our exams run right up until the day we break up at Christmas otherwise our students would be off working in the local supermarket instead of in school, we could have them in early December and turn a blind eye to skiving but we don't. We have to have our results in when we go back in January so that does involve corrections during the holidays. Schools now get subject inspections in some area at least once a year which involves lots of paperwork - including lesson plans and schemes of work. my school had one last week.

And to add to what janeybabe26 said about facilities. The last school I taught in had a 'lab' with no gas, running water or electricity, the only electrical item that worked was the light in the ceiling... I used kitchen knives and sheets of cardboard for a dissecting kit and had students fill coke bottles with water from the sinks in the toilets to clean up afterwards...but you make do and get on with it.

It's really the lack of facilities for students (and teachers) that should be the bone of contention, not the holidays.

dame

It's not the holidays that are the bone of contention folks, it's the teacher's sense of entitlement.

randylonghorn

dame wrote: »

Ask any teacher (who has been qualified a few years) if you can see their lesson plans and they won't have many recent ones (or any at all) to show you.

Many experienced teachers won't necessarily need formal written lesson plans ... they would prefer, quite rightly, to spend the time preparing teaching aids / handouts / posters (depending on age of students) or marking homework etc. than writing down lists of things which come as naturally to them as you drive a car.

dame wrote: »

Primary teachers very very rarely spend time in the evenings marking work.

Rubbish, tbh. My mother usually spent 2-3 hours an evening marking homework. She taught 4th, 5th and 6th, and usually had at least 30 pupils between the 3 classes ... one year she had 38.

Terry wrote: »

Teachers deserve the time off.

I was a complete prick in school. Looking back, I wouldn't inflict the 14 year old me on my worst enemy. There were quite a few like me too and that was in a small (at the time) school.

Picture having to put up with a bunch of obnoxious teenagers every day or think back to your own school days.
Now imagine yourself on the other side of the desk having to put up with all those dicks in your class.

Unfortunately, such self-awareness is scarce, Terry ... wp!

dame wrote: »

Nah, I had far too many leaving cert points to be a teacher!

If you are assuming that no-one with excellent LC results goes on to teach, again, you would be very very wrong. Your statement does say much about your sub-concious (or conscious) attitute and assumptions about teaching and teachers, however.

dame wrote: »

If you choose to though you shouldn't complain about it.

Firstly, you started this thread to complain about them, not the other way around. Apart from that, however, you are of course right ... teachers should be the only people in the world not allowed to complain about their job from time to time.


There are of course good and bad teachers, the dedicated and the lazy as hell. Many good teachers have left over the last couple of years. Why? Children who are impossible to deal with, unsocialised and undisciplined by their parents. Parents who are impossible to deal with!! Parents who are living nightmares, tbh!

And the more this becomes the reality, the more the standard of teachers WILL decline ... as the idealistic, dedicated ones give up, and the time servers who enjoy their long holidays and do as little as possible during the year stick in there!

Toto Wolfcastle

dame wrote: »

It's not the holidays that are the bone of contention folks, it's the teacher's sense of entitlement.

Oh right, well I don't feel a sense of entitlement. Do any other teachers?

dame

janeybabe26 wrote: »

Oh right, well I don't feel a sense of entitlement. Do any other teachers?

You feel entitled to your holidays and feel sorry for teachers who aren't permanent and have to work in supermarkets or wherever during the summer.

dame

randylonghorn wrote: »

Rubbish, tbh. My mother usually spent 2-3 hours an evening marking homework. She taught 4th, 5th and 6th, and usually had at least 30 pupils between the 3 classes ... one year she had 38.

Your mother would be more of the exception rather than the rule. She had no time to correct during the day because when one class group was sitting occupied on a task, she needed to be active with one of the other two groups and vice versa.

I cannot remember ever not having a spelling test or other such work corrected by the end of the same day. Essays etc would be read by the teacher when we were busy working on another subject.

Toto Wolfcastle

dame wrote: »

You feel entitled to your holidays and feel sorry for teachers who aren't permanent and have to work in supermarkets or wherever during the summer.

I didn't say I felt entitled to my holidays. Those are the holidays that are given to teachers. (Holidays that I have yet to have because as I said, this is my Dip year.) And of course I feel sorry for people who aren't made permanent. People have kids, mortgages, bills, etc. Having to worry about where you are going to be working come September is not fair.

Please try not to put words in my mouth.

rainbowtrout

No I don't feel a sense of entitlement to anything, I just get on with my job. But if the Dept of Ed are happy to provide certain working conditions - 3 months summer holidays, I'm not going to feel guilty about availing of them. Those are the terms of my job.

There are very few people who get into teaching just for the holidays, and there are plenty leaving for jobs with 'regular' holidays because they don't want to teach undisciplined, selfish, unruly students anymore and entitlements is the last thing on their mind when they are contemplating a career change.


Permanancy isn't really an issue there are so few permanent jobs available, most on temporary contracts are just hoping there will be a job available for them the following year and that they won't be left go and someone else hired due to a change in subject requirements or a drop in numbers etc

dame

rainbowtrout wrote: »

No I don't feel a sense of entitlement to anything, I just get on with my job. But if the Dept of Ed are happy to provide certain working conditions - 3 months summer holidays, I'm not going to feel guilty about availing of them. Those are the terms of my job.

There are very few people who get into teaching just for the holidays, and there are plenty leaving for jobs with 'regular' holidays because they don't want to teach undisciplined, selfish, unruly students anymore and entitlements is the last thing on their mind when they are contemplating a career change.


Permanancy isn't really an issue there are so few permanent jobs available, most on temporary contracts are just hoping there will be a job available for them the following year and that they won't be left go and someone else hired due to a change in subject requirements or a drop in numbers etc

Avail of the holidays you are given of course, but my point is that teachers should manage to fit a simple thing like an unnecessary elective surgery into those holidays rather than taking more time off during the school year.


There are more permanent jobs than temporary jobs in primary teaching. I suppose it's just lucky for them that they are all qualified to teach the full curriculum to all classes, rather than select subjects to particular levels.

rainbowtrout

dame wrote: »

Your mother would be more of the exception rather than the rule. She had no time to correct during the day because when one class group was sitting occupied on a task, she needed to be active with one of the other two groups and vice versa.

I cannot remember ever not having a spelling test or other such work corrected by the end of the same day. Essays etc would be read by the teacher when we were busy working on another subject.

You perhaps went to a relatively large primary school like i did where you were in a class which was just one class group. The majority of children are taught in small primary schools in this country, especially in rural areas where there are only two classes and 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th class students are all in together and all four classes have to be taught, assigned work and given individual time, to be honest, I don't think i'd be able for all that juggling, hats off to primary teachers, i couldn't teach 4 different year groups all at once... even if primary teachers aren't bringing home spelling tests to correct, i'm sure there are plenty of them spending evenings making posters and god knows what else out of crepe paper and toilet roll tubes!

randylonghorn

dame wrote: »

Your mother would be more of the exception rather than the rule.

With respect, dame, no, she wouldn't. Her two sisters were teachers, many of my cousins are teachers, many of her friends were teachers ... I grew up among teachers, mostly primary, but at other levels as well (NOT always a good thing, believe me!). She was by no means the exception.

dame wrote: »

She had no time to correct during the day because when one class group was sitting occupied on a task, she needed to be active with one of the other two groups and vice versa.

Your logic is flawless ... it just doesn't lead you to the correct conclusion. She considered her time in school to be for teaching ... either with a full class, or (if she ever had the time) with individual pupils or small groups who were falling behind. Corrections and preparation were done out of school hours.

dame wrote: »

I cannot remember ever not having a spelling test or other such work corrected by the end of the same day. Essays etc would be read by the teacher when we were busy working on another subject.

You were either unlucky in your teachers, or very lucky, in that they were hyper-efficient. Admittedly, where a teacher only has one class, that is probably more viable ... it is seldom the case in rural schools, whatever about urban ones.

Toto Wolfcastle

dame wrote: »

Avail of the holidays you are given of course, but my point is that teachers should manage to fit a simple thing like an unnecessary elective surgery into those holidays rather than taking more time off during the school year.


There are more permanent jobs than temporary jobs in primary teaching. I suppose it's just lucky for them that they are all qualified to teach the full curriculum to all classes, rather than select subjects to particular levels.

Fair enough, but again it's not just teachers that take time off to have elective surgery.

As for permanency, I'll be qualified to teach 2 core subjects (English and Irish) to Leaving Cert level and I wont be guaranteed a job. It's not 'lucky' for Primary School teachers that they can teach the full curriculum, it's just a fact of the job that they do, a job they chose. I chose to be a Post-Primary teacher, so maybe I shouldn't complain about the lack of jobs. (Or maybe I should complain that the DES are allowing people to train without the possibility of a permanent job.)

Either way, it's not fair to call teachers lazy because they decided to get some surgery. What about people who call in sick regularly? What about people who go to work and do a half-assed job because no one is watching. (Not the case in teaching. Teachers are on show all the time, and kids pick up on everything.)

randylonghorn

janeybabe26 wrote: »

What about people who go to work and do a half-assed job because no one is watching. (Not the case in teaching. Teachers are on show all the time, and kids pick up on everything.)

I'll bet you very few teachers spend half their day on Boards!

RadioActive

Anything run by the government is going to be inefficient. Teachers do work hard for not so much pay, so I guess if anyone deserves a break it'd be them.

Toto Wolfcastle

randylonghorn wrote: »

I'll bet you very few teachers spend half their day on Boards!

Ha ha, if only I had the time!! If I so much as sit down at the computer in the staff room to find something for a class there is inevitably a knock on the door. ('Miss, is Miss. XXXX there?' 'No, she's in this magical thing called a class. You should try it sometime!') If you ask me, the students get too much time off!! If I left the class to go to the staff room I'd have the parents on the phone first thing the next day!


That was a joke by the way, just in case anyone decides to take me up on it!

rainbowtrout

janeybabe26 wrote: »

Either way, it's not fair to call teachers lazy because they decided to get some surgery. What about people who call in sick regularly? What about people who go to work and do a half-assed job because no one is watching. (Not the case in teaching. Teachers are on show all the time, and kids pick up on everything.)

I agree. And it's one of the few jobs where everyone has been through the system and because they have been taught feels that they are an expert on teaching. I teach in a small town and the dogs on the street could tell you which teachers are hard working and which are just passing the time until retirement. There are very few jobs which come under such public scrutiny. Kids watch my (and all the other staff's) every move and their parents are able to tell me what i've had for breakfast, dinner and tea. Everything that happens in class is reported at home, no matter how trivial, so going in lazing about and taking time off for trivial things doesn't really happen all that much.

Lirange

dame wrote: »

Hi folks,
What do you think of the fact that teachers are entitled to a week off for their wedding? I'm not joking, if a teacher gets married during the school year they are entitled to the week off, paid. Is this not taking the piss?

I have absolutely no problem with it. There are two partners in a marriage. I'd imagine there are other factors in determining when two people decide to hold their wedding other than this alleged cushy perk you keep bleating about.

I always find it amusing that so many people that complain about entitlement waste their breath bitching about others. Get over it and get on with your life.

John Mason

i am not a teacher but if you get married in my company, you get an extra weeks holiday too.............you got to love the public sector

Seth Brundle

dame wrote: »

Also, I know of a teacher who took a week off to get laser eye treatment. Shouldn't she just have done this during the summer, or the Halloween week off, or waited until the three weeks off at Christmas, or even the Easter holidays??? (Some) Teachers are the laziest people in Ireland! They seem to have the weakest work ethic and strongest sense of entitlement I have ever come across outside of an umemployed person who has no intention of looking for work, ever.

You know of one teacher in several thousand who had this done yet by suggestion tar them all with the same brush.

micmclo wrote: »

What I vaguely remember from the strike a few years back was any extra parent or staff meetings had to be on school days and there were disputes about staying late to meet parents.
I do remember my own parent teacher meetings were on school time and certainly didn't run past 5pm.
Like the nurses dispute, initally they had sympathy and people quickly turned against them. Such as refusing to supervise the yards during breaks??

But as stated lots if not most teachers are excellent and and do help in GAA, quiz teams and school plays when they don't have to

You vaguely remember?
I can remember all of my and my siblings parent teacher meetings and they were all at night.
As I already said, teachers have no say in the matter but even if they were held during the daytime, so what? Would your bank manager meet you at nighttime because it suits you better?

dame wrote: »

Agreed, there are people everywhere who take the piss. That is a fact. Two/three weeks is a short time to fit an elective surgery and a holiday into, 3 1/2 or 4 1/2 months on the other hand......

Did they pick the date for the surgery? Are you sure it wasn't needed urgently?

dame wrote: »

It's not the holidays that are the bone of contention folks, it's the teacher's sense of entitlement.

And you have a sense of entitlement to bitch about something you don't seem know a huge amount about!

dame wrote: »

You feel entitled to your holidays and feel sorry for teachers who aren't permanent and have to work in supermarkets or wherever during the summer.

...and what? Do you feel entitled to your holidays? Has there ever been anyone in your workplace who has had to do some extra work to make ends meet?

dame wrote: »

Avail of the holidays you are given of course, but my point is that teachers should manage to fit a simple thing like an unnecessary elective surgery into those holidays rather than taking more time off during the school year.

and presumably you have the stats showing that the majority of teachers don't do this? What else do they say?

dame wrote: »

I suppose it's just lucky for them that they are all qualified to teach the full curriculum to all classes, rather than select subjects to particular levels.

I'm not an expert on this but I believe that part of the logic in ensuring teachers can teach the full curriculum is so that there is stability in the childrens education, rather than having 5 to 10 differerent teachers seeing them every day.

SheroN

dame what do you do for a living?

dame

randylonghorn wrote: »

I'll bet you very few teachers spend half their day on Boards!

No they just sit up at night instead wasting time on baords because they are super-humans who don't need any sleep before going into work the next day. :rolleyes: It must be a very stressful job.

dame

SheroN wrote: »

dame what do you do for a living?

I'm an engineer and I also run my own company.

dame

randylonghorn wrote: »

Her two sisters were teachers, many of my cousins are teachers, many of her friends were teachers ... I grew up among teachers, mostly primary, but at other levels as well (NOT always a good thing, believe me!)

I grew up among teachers too. I do know what I'm talking about.

aidan_walsh

dame wrote: »

I grew up among teachers too. I do know what I'm talking about.

Bad teachers?

dame

janeybabe26 wrote: »

Fair enough, but again it's not just teachers that take time off to have elective surgery.

As for permanency, I'll be qualified to teach 2 core subjects (English and Irish) to Leaving Cert level and I wont be guaranteed a job. It's not 'lucky' for Primary School teachers that they can teach the full curriculum, it's just a fact of the job that they do, a job they chose. I chose to be a Post-Primary teacher, so maybe I shouldn't complain about the lack of jobs. (Or maybe I should complain that the DES are allowing people to train without the possibility of a permanent job.)

Either way, it's not fair to call teachers lazy because they decided to get some surgery. What about people who call in sick regularly? What about people who go to work and do a half-assed job because no one is watching. (Not the case in teaching. Teachers are on show all the time, and kids pick up on everything.)

Well, teachers here have said that they cannot correct work during free classes because they are spent supervising classes for other teachers who are absent. Must be a lot of absenteeism among teachers where you folks work!

Yes, I agree actually, the DES should be only training people for jobs that actually exist. That's why there are so many PE teachers around the country doing the Hibernia course in order to become Primary teachers instead. That's obviously not what they'd really like to be doing.

dame

aidan_walsh wrote: »

Bad teachers?

No, the hyper-efficient kind!

ScumLord

dame wrote: »

Hi folks,

What do you think of the fact that teachers are entitled to a week off for their wedding? I'm not joking, if a teacher gets married during the school year they are entitled to the week off, paid. Is this not taking the piss?

Also, I know of a teacher who took a week off to get laser eye treatment. Shouldn't she just have done this during the summer, or the Halloween week off, or waited until the three weeks off at Christmas, or even the Easter holidays??? (Some) Teachers are the laziest people in Ireland! They seem to have the weakest work ethic and strongest sense of entitlement I have ever come across outside of an umemployed person who has no intention of looking for work, ever.

I don't see a problem with it we should all have those benefits. The thing is the only way to work our teachers harder is to work our kids harder. This is more begrudgery so what if they get more days off more power to them.

Like Terry said earlier on it's not easy being a teacher. We sent at least one of our teachers to the loony bin and had others in tears on a regular basis.

togster

dame wrote: »

Well, teachers here have said that they cannot correct work during free classes because they are spent supervising classes for other teachers who are absent. Must be a lot of absenteeism among teachers where you folks work!

Yes, I agree actually, the DES should be only training people for jobs that actually exist. That's why there are so many PE teachers around the country doing the Hibernia course in order to become Primary teachers instead. That's obviously not what they'd really like to be doing.

Did you have a bad experience with a teacher? Your comments are loaded with generalisation and innuendo.

knird evol

What are teachers correcting every night? Are they running tests every day?
Are they reading everyones homework every night? I don't remember any of this from school. What ever happened to random violence and reading from the text book. No wonder the society bubble is about the burst.

Trotter

knird evol wrote: »

What are teachers correcting every night? Are they running tests every day?
Are they reading everyones homework every night? I don't remember any of this from school. What ever happened to random violence and reading from the text book. No wonder the society bubble is about the burst.

Every exercise a child writes in my class, in 3 or 4 subjects a day, gets corrected by me. I'm just on my break now, (2:35pm), and I'll be correcting work they did during the week until around 6. I'll be back in tomorrow for 3 or 4 hours to finish it off and write plans for next week.




The generalisations written in this thread and just plain ignorance of what a teacher does are insulting and demoralising. Dame.. If you're an engineer, would you think I was an idiot if I said most engineers are only half qualified and are doing dodgy work off the back of a now failing construction industry?

You'd be right to think thats what I am, because I'd be generalising about something I know nothing about. I know and have spent time with plenty of engineers. Does that mean I know enough to judge their abilities and assess their daily workload? No. It doesn't.

I really think some of your comments are plainly wrong, argumentative and "keyboard warrior" like.